Ahmad Brooks starts?

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by Overkill:
If all our OLB's did was rush the passer, than Brooks would be starting right now. But obviously there's more to it than that. He's got to learn to play the run and understand coverages, too.

Manny is a solid OLB for us. Its not going to be easy to unseat him as starter.

I feel there is no need to push Brooks to start, let him learn the position more, but use him on obvious passing situation, like the niners did with Fred Dean, keep both of them fresh. It is a long season.

Fred Dean was about 30 when he was brought in and there was logic in keeping him fresh.

Brooks is a youngster with rather low mileage. I want to see him out there developing and learning as soon as he is able. I would start him game 1 if his performance pre season remotely justifies it

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by Overkill:
If all our OLB's did was rush the passer, than Brooks would be starting right now. But obviously there's more to it than that. He's got to learn to play the run and understand coverages, too.

Manny is a solid OLB for us. Its not going to be easy to unseat him as starter.

I feel there is no need to push Brooks to start, let him learn the position more, but use him on obvious passing situation, like the niners did with Fred Dean, keep both of them fresh. It is a long season.

Fred Dean was about 30 when he was brought in and there was logic in keeping him fresh.

Brooks is a youngster with rather low mileage. I want to see him out there developing and learning as soon as he is able. I would start him game 1 if his performance pre season remotely justifies it

Good point! The fact that Manusky is asking LaBoy, Haralson and Brooks et al. to play both SAM and WILL spots, using Brooks in coverage zones now, the fact that despite hurt last year, Haralson was NOT the one sub'd out, Brooks continues to focus on his off-season workout and diet regimen are all good indications that Manusky is ready to step up his scheme/game plans while Manny continues to hold out. I get the impression that Manusky does not want to be hamstrung anymore by a 1st and 2nd down-only SAM and then have to rely on a Brooks or LaBoy on obvious pass rushing downs to bring a consistent, play-making pass rush. It REALLY defeats the disguise and purpose of the 3-4 (makes it more vanilla).

Ideally you want your SAM and WILL to be great pass rushers who can seal the edge, make plays behind the LOS and drop in zone coverage from time to time while the other side brings the blitz. You'd like to have both players be able to play both sides of the field (e.g. "mirror positions") AND be able to pass rush on ANY down...not just in obvious pass rushing situations which makes it easy for the offense to scheme towards.

LaBoy is a proven starter and pass rusher when healthy, we're hearing good things about Briggs and he's up to 254 pounds now, Long may be a player and Haralson continues to get praise from Staley and now that he's 100% healthy, could have a nice bounce-back year.

Manny could very well be sitting himself right out of a starting position on this team. This year there seems to be a serious emphasis on genuine competition for starting positions and nobody's job is guaranteed anymore. That's a good thing!

Even if a new contract is negotiated (very unlikely IMHO), Brooks could be the X-factor not only in the amount of money Lawson signs for but as to what role Manny plays on this team. Does he stay as a 1st and 2nd-down only SAM? Share more snaps with Brooks?

Brooks seems to have the intangibles too...he BADLY wants to lead the team in sacks and was genuinely upset he didn't win it last year. I can't recall ever hearing that desire from Lawson or any other Niner for quite some time now.

The mandatory practices should be a good indication as to where Manny and his agent's position is. Let the best man win even if that's an ultra-inspired Manny who suddenly realizes his potential and explodes as a dominant pass rusher at both the SAM and WILL on every down!

[ Edited by NCommand on Jun 15, 2010 at 12:04:39 ]

Originally posted by 49ersnum1:
Why not keep Brooks as a rotating LB and have him take over when Spikes leave??

Haralson, Brooks, Willis, Lawson BEAST!!

I'm Hoping Bowman can fill that spot, when the time comes!

He's getting a lot of reps, which will do him (and the team) good. Whether he'll have learned enough to replace Manny as the starter is yet another thing. Lawson has a lot of experience on Ahmad...now we'll see if he's determined to have a banner season, which would increase his value to the Niners and the league. The trend is to avoid signing most would-be RFA's to long-term contracts due to the uncertainty of the CBA and the 2011 season. Guys like Willis, Peyton, et al, are the exceptions, not the rule. Back to Brooks, my sense is his PT will increase this season, but he won't necessarily start. However, the experience he gains this year should put him in position to be a legitimate starter in 2011.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
He's getting a lot of reps, which will do him (and the team) good. Whether he'll have learned enough to replace Manny as the starter is yet another thing. Lawson has a lot of experience on Ahmad...now we'll see if he's determined to have a banner season, which would increase his value to the Niners and the league. The trend is to avoid signing most would-be RFA's to long-term contracts due to the uncertainty of the CBA and the 2011 season. Guys like Willis, Peyton, et al, are the exceptions, not the rule. Back to Brooks, my sense is his PT will increase this season, but he won't necessarily start. However, the experience he gains this year should put him in position to be a legitimate starter in 2011.

This would be my stance as well unless Manny burns some bridges with the organization this year (e.g. doesn't speak to Singletary, long holdout, $ demands way too unrealistic, Manusky/Singletary want to go another direction, etc.). Either way, I agree that he'll start seeing more and more snaps including on 1st and 2nd down, perhaps at both the SAM and WILL positions. I think they want to see if he can be the FT starter they think he can be and will give him that chance more and more like they did last year; the more success he has = the more playing time. Last year, he earned more and more playing time.

Let's get this show on the road!

Originally posted by WildBill:

Originally posted by Overkill:
If all our OLB's did was rush the passer, than Brooks would be starting right now. But obviously there's more to it than that. He's got to learn to play the run and understand coverages, too.

Manny is a solid OLB for us. Its not going to be easy to unseat him as starter.

I feel there is no need to push Brooks to start, let him learn the position more, but use him on obvious passing situation, like the niners did with Fred Dean, keep both of them fresh. It is a long season.

Dude, the guys has been in the league for 4 years and on our team for two of them. I wouldn't exactly call that pushing him to start.

He probablly wont start right away but dude can rush the passer.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by fan49:
manny is definitely the weaker of the pass rushers out of our olb... id rather have laboy if hes healthy. but parys and brooks are prolly the best pass rushers on the squad, then laboy (if healthy) then manny

So how do you figure that Manny is the weaker pass rusher when he was our sack leader last year while sitting on the bench on 3rd downs? I'm not sure what sort of a contract he is looking for, but I do understand why he doesn't want to risk injury for a sub-million dollar contract when he is clearly worth a lot more than that to somebody.

If we don't get him signed long term we will miss him.

What? According to most resource his salary this year will be in excess of $1.8 million. As he is still under contract and has hardly set the NFL on fire, it seems not unreasonable to expect him to put a little effort in, or as you put it, to risk injury.

Whilst I would like to keep him, if he gets too greedy he is quite replaceable

I think that you are looking at hia cap hit, not this year's pay.

"So is Lawson's, who is scheduled to make just $625,000 this year, the last one of his contract, despite a breakthrough 2009 season that included 68 tackles, 6½ sacks and three forced fumbles."
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2010/06/franklin-lawson-are-the-mystery-men.html

Still I think people get obsessed with stats. Everyone wants our OLBs to get double digit sacks. There is however a lot more to it than sacks and Manny is a very good linebacker. There are other teams drooling over us letting him leave.

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by fan49:
manny is definitely the weaker of the pass rushers out of our olb... id rather have laboy if hes healthy. but parys and brooks are prolly the best pass rushers on the squad, then laboy (if healthy) then manny

So how do you figure that Manny is the weaker pass rusher when he was our sack leader last year while sitting on the bench on 3rd downs? I'm not sure what sort of a contract he is looking for, but I do understand why he doesn't want to risk injury for a sub-million dollar contract when he is clearly worth a lot more than that to somebody.

If we don't get him signed long term we will miss him.

What? According to most resource his salary this year will be in excess of $1.8 million. As he is still under contract and has hardly set the NFL on fire, it seems not unreasonable to expect him to put a little effort in, or as you put it, to risk injury.

Whilst I would like to keep him, if he gets too greedy he is quite replaceable

I think that you are looking at hia cap hit, not this year's pay.

"So is Lawson's, who is scheduled to make just $625,000 this year, the last one of his contract, despite a breakthrough 2009 season that included 68 tackles, 6½ sacks and three forced fumbles."
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2010/06/franklin-lawson-are-the-mystery-men.html

Still I think people get obsessed with stats. Everyone wants our OLBs to get double digit sacks. There is however a lot more to it than sacks and Manny is a very good linebacker. There are other teams drooling over us letting him leave.

How do you figure? We shopped him around prior to the draft and nobody wanted him...esp. if he'll end up leaving after this year anyhow. I have no doubts a 4-3 team would love his skill set but "drooling?"

ahmad hopefully can take over the starting spot before the end of the season. he should start week 1. dont get me wrong, manny is solid but brooks has potential to be a play maker. thats what we need, playmakers. we are starting to develop some real talented players. we'll let manny walk and get whatever compensatory pick they give us. mannys a good player and follow a similar path to andre carter.

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by fan49:
manny is definitely the weaker of the pass rushers out of our olb... id rather have laboy if hes healthy. but parys and brooks are prolly the best pass rushers on the squad, then laboy (if healthy) then manny

So how do you figure that Manny is the weaker pass rusher when he was our sack leader last year while sitting on the bench on 3rd downs? I'm not sure what sort of a contract he is looking for, but I do understand why he doesn't want to risk injury for a sub-million dollar contract when he is clearly worth a lot more than that to somebody.

If we don't get him signed long term we will miss him.

What? According to most resource his salary this year will be in excess of $1.8 million. As he is still under contract and has hardly set the NFL on fire, it seems not unreasonable to expect him to put a little effort in, or as you put it, to risk injury.

Whilst I would like to keep him, if he gets too greedy he is quite replaceable

I think that you are looking at hia cap hit, not this year's pay.

"So is Lawson's, who is scheduled to make just $625,000 this year, the last one of his contract, despite a breakthrough 2009 season that included 68 tackles, 6½ sacks and three forced fumbles."
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2010/06/franklin-lawson-are-the-mystery-men.html

Still I think people get obsessed with stats. Everyone wants our OLBs to get double digit sacks. There is however a lot more to it than sacks and Manny is a very good linebacker. There are other teams drooling over us letting him leave.

Well, a 4-3 team might find him of more value. I laughed at your comment about "just" $625,000 this year. Poor lad. He'll be starving. Shall we have a whip-round, send him some food parcels or something?

Point is, there are two ways of handling this. You can sit on the fence and sulk or you can throw yourself in and prove your value. Not sure which way he is going. I would like him back, but .........

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by fan49:
manny is definitely the weaker of the pass rushers out of our olb... id rather have laboy if hes healthy. but parys and brooks are prolly the best pass rushers on the squad, then laboy (if healthy) then manny

So how do you figure that Manny is the weaker pass rusher when he was our sack leader last year while sitting on the bench on 3rd downs? I'm not sure what sort of a contract he is looking for, but I do understand why he doesn't want to risk injury for a sub-million dollar contract when he is clearly worth a lot more than that to somebody.

If we don't get him signed long term we will miss him.

What? According to most resource his salary this year will be in excess of $1.8 million. As he is still under contract and has hardly set the NFL on fire, it seems not unreasonable to expect him to put a little effort in, or as you put it, to risk injury.

Whilst I would like to keep him, if he gets too greedy he is quite replaceable

I think that you are looking at hia cap hit, not this year's pay.

"So is Lawson's, who is scheduled to make just $625,000 this year, the last one of his contract, despite a breakthrough 2009 season that included 68 tackles, 6½ sacks and three forced fumbles."
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2010/06/franklin-lawson-are-the-mystery-men.html

Still I think people get obsessed with stats. Everyone wants our OLBs to get double digit sacks. There is however a lot more to it than sacks and Manny is a very good linebacker. There are other teams drooling over us letting him leave.

Well, a 4-3 team might find him of more value. I laughed at your comment about "just" $625,000 this year. Poor lad. He'll be starving. Shall we have a whip-round, send him some food parcels or something?

Point is, there are two ways of handling this. You can sit on the fence and sulk or you can throw yourself in and prove your value. Not sure which way he is going. I would like him back, but .........

I never thought you were actually English til i seen you typed lad Great screen name

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by sfniner:

Originally posted by fan49:
manny is definitely the weaker of the pass rushers out of our olb... id rather have laboy if hes healthy. but parys and brooks are prolly the best pass rushers on the squad, then laboy (if healthy) then manny

So how do you figure that Manny is the weaker pass rusher when he was our sack leader last year while sitting on the bench on 3rd downs? I'm not sure what sort of a contract he is looking for, but I do understand why he doesn't want to risk injury for a sub-million dollar contract when he is clearly worth a lot more than that to somebody.

If we don't get him signed long term we will miss him.

What? According to most resource his salary this year will be in excess of $1.8 million. As he is still under contract and has hardly set the NFL on fire, it seems not unreasonable to expect him to put a little effort in, or as you put it, to risk injury.

Whilst I would like to keep him, if he gets too greedy he is quite replaceable

I think that you are looking at hia cap hit, not this year's pay.

"So is Lawson's, who is scheduled to make just $625,000 this year, the last one of his contract, despite a breakthrough 2009 season that included 68 tackles, 6½ sacks and three forced fumbles."
http://blog.pressdemocrat.com/49ers/2010/06/franklin-lawson-are-the-mystery-men.html

Still I think people get obsessed with stats. Everyone wants our OLBs to get double digit sacks. There is however a lot more to it than sacks and Manny is a very good linebacker. There are other teams drooling over us letting him leave.

Well, a 4-3 team might find him of more value. I laughed at your comment about "just" $625,000 this year. Poor lad. He'll be starving. Shall we have a whip-round, send him some food parcels or something?

Point is, there are two ways of handling this. You can sit on the fence and sulk or you can throw yourself in and prove your value. Not sure which way he is going. I would like him back, but .........

I never thought you were actually English til i seen you typed lad Great screen name

Lol! Thanks. Yes, English through and through.

Does ahmad have starting potential? Or is he a pass rush specialist?

Originally posted by SportinWood:
Does ahmad have starting potential? Or is he a pass rush specialist?

He was a starter as an ILB but got hurt. He's been training to be a starter for two years now in our defense and was used more as a pass rush specialist last year. We know he can pass rush. We know he can play the run. We know he's explosive. We know he makes plays. We know he's working in practice at dropping into coverage. We know he's worked hard on his conditioning and diet. And we know he wants to lead the team in sacks. So, to answer your question, yes, no question about it. BUT what we need to know to verify this is the Manny situation and the coaches desire to give him those reps. Give him the reps now, let him make his mistakes and let him grow into the starter Singletary/Manusky wants and use LaBoy/Briggs/Long to spell both SAM and WILL spots to keep everyone fresh.