Originally posted by WINiner:
I stopped at "rookie season" of the 1st sentence. There is no argument there at all and you know it. Knock it off Nc, i see what your doing and im not being snowed.
Either that or this of the worst arguments I've seen from you.
There's no argument here? Come on, man!
Originally posted by WINiner:
Ill sum up how I understand your argument to be sure.
Lawson struggled as a rookie so was moved from WILL. That is proof that he has no PR. He is not good in your opinion because he plays in a position not traditionally known for being the main source of sacks, yet didn't put up sacks consistently enough for his position. That while he did have more sacks than the guy who was playing the position that iiisss supposed to be the main sack source, it was still deficient cause he didn't contribute to 50% or higher in regard to total sacks. You think Lawson is a decent LB against the run , and decent against the pass, but nothing special and easily replaced.
Count #1: What I was referring to (given we've covered over 15 pages of topics beyond this) was that he was drafted to be a PR specialist and started his rookie year at WILL and was completely ineffective, benched and then moved to the SAM.
Count #2: Now at SAM, Manny is removed from the Hybrid defense in pass rushing downs
Count #3: In Manny's healthiest year and a year where he was exclusively asked to pass rush, he was removed from pass rush duties on 3rd downs/and other obvious passing downs for Brooks.
Count #4: Team extended Haralson a LT contract last year through 2013 b/c of his pass rush ability, extend Brooks 2 years for the same thing and then pick up LaBoy for the same thing
Count #5: Continued talks in the media exist about trading Manny for a draft pick and many draft boards have us taking Graham or Kindel tomorrow
So, the team doesn't seem to see Manny as nothing more then a 1st & 2nd down player an clearly never lived up to the reason he was drafted in the first place - in short, he's expendable.
So, my question to you was, what basis do you use that suddenly makes you think that if we had a dominant PR at WILL, Manny would suddenly start putting up close to double-digit sacks? And could the reverse be true too?
Originally posted by WINiner:
I also perceive that you ignored my stance, and others, that he plays a position not generally known for being the main sack source, and that he plays across from a guy who provides less pressure than he himself does, which is very abnormal...normally. That it makes complete sense that if Lawson had a dominant PR opposite him that would allow all that much more opportunity, and even a small increase of 10% in tackles and 2 sacks a season puts him right next to other players that you use as examples to prove Lawson is meh.
I already stated that was not totally true as many of the WILL sacks came from SAM positions but yes, very generally speaking, the better of the two PR's typically play the WILL...and obviously, Manny is not seen as good enough to play the WILL. The other side is that there are many guys who play the SAM who put up better sack numbers then the WILL...another case in point that the SAM & WILL are interchangeable. The fact that you point out that Haralson produced the same number of sacks as Manny despite being sub'd out is case in point that BOTH the WILL and SAM need to be re-evaluated, hence the draft trade talks, signing of Brooks & LaBoy, possible signing of Graham, etc.
My point is that Manny is expendable...very expendable. You can drop in any WILL (someone with better PR abilities) to play his position and do just as well against the run as these ARE LB's and most are well-verses in stopping the run.
My assessment of Manny: (try to recreate again for you)
Coverage - slightly below average and generally, insignificant (when was the last play you saw Manny make in coverage or stop a screen pass?)
Run - above average in stops, TFL and has gotten much better at the POA; still struggles with speedy backs; good hustle even when beat but is susceptible to getting lost in the mix at times (even known to run the wrong way)
Pass rush - just doesn't have "it"; what sacks he does get generally are meaningless and rarely produce fumbles or INT's, etc. Many of his career sacks have come as a results of another rushing the QB into him; often times over pursues, leaving big holes on the edge, misreads screens and covering RB's out of the backfield, etc.
Motivation - job was always handed to him from day 1 and played his best once challenged by Brooks, threw a fit on the sidelines about it, now missed the OTA's and is asking for more money as one of the only SAM's in the league who only plays 1st and 2nd downs. Really? Many don't think he even earned his rookie contract!
We can do better! He's expendable. That's my point.
For the record, I like Manny...I don't think it's right how Manusky uses him, I never liked the pick in the 1st place b/c I never saw him as a good fit for the 3-4, hope he goes to a 4-3 and excels and in return, hope we find an every down SAM who can rush the passer very effectively - I say the same thing about the WILL.
a first for manny lawson?
...for us. He's our best OLB.