The truth about Dashon Goldson.

Originally posted by smileyman:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
I dont understand why a person cant point out a flaw about one of our players unless its Alex without people calling him out Goldson is decent but does make alot of mistakes and wasnt even near a pro bowl level this year.He gace up ALOT of plays through the air. He gave up more big playes through the air than he did picks thats not good

thank you.

let me summarize what i wanted to say.

Goldon is young and shows potential.

however, he is lacking in coverage, and has been overrated by the zone.

i was just pointing that out. you mention a flaw in ONE of the few fan favorites on this board, and you get pelted for 5 pages.

If you can point out a real flaw instead of an imagined one you wouldn't get pelted. I've posted the stats to show why Goldson is not a bad coverage safety. Refute them or don't make stupid comments.

Goldson was thrown at 52 times, which was 5th most in the NFL. you dont throw in a S direction 52 times if hes any good at coverage. he tied for 2nd place behind....Michael Lewis in the entire NFL for passes caught against with 34.

he wasnt horrible in % passes caught against him compared to his peers, but if you throw out S with less than 800 snaps (goldson had 1108 snaps), he falls to 15th worst in the NFL in Comp.%.

also, he only had 2 PD and 4 picks this year on 52 targets. so of the 18 balls thrown at him that were not caught, he only actually got his hands on 6 of them. and were all 4 of his picks off targets at his man? S get alot of tipped pass INT's. so if 2/3 the passes he DIDNT allow to be caught werent actually broken up by Dashon himself, its likely they were poorly thrown balls or WR drops. lets face it, if your man is thrown at, and you dont make a play on the ball, and it isnt caught, you cant take a whole ton of credit.

despite being top 10 in tackles, he missed 13, which ranks in the top 5 worst for the position. he was also top 20 in allowing YAC. and 13 missed tackles is bad dude, trying to "average" it out to 1 per game is hilarious. you said "thats not bad". yeah....1 MT a game is bad.

you spent too much time comparing his coverage stats to the current pro bowl players. making the pro bowl in real life doesnt mean you were the best. it means you were popular and also good enough to get votes. Jarius Byrd is a pro bowler, but outside his picks, he didnt have that great a year.

so Goldson gave up 3 TD's, which is bad for a FS, he missed 13 tackles, which is bad, he was thrown at 52 times, which is being "picked on", he gave up 130 YAC, which is among the 20 worst S, and of the 52 balls thrown in his direction, he only got his hand on 6 of them.

technically there are probably worse cover S than Goldson, like Reggie Nelson, but to argue Goldson was a solid cover guy this season is ignorance. he has alot of improving to do.

all that being said, hes very young and inexperienced, and was left on the field for more snaps in 2009 than any NFL S but 1, so we can chalk it up to growing pains.

btw, who the heck are you? ive never seen you on here before, and youre on here talking crap....come on.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
I dont understand why a person cant point out a flaw about one of our players unless its Alex without people calling him out Goldson is decent but does make alot of mistakes and wasnt even near a pro bowl level this year.He gace up ALOT of plays through the air. He gave up more big playes through the air than he did picks thats not good

thank you.

let me summarize what i wanted to say.

Goldon is young and shows potential.

however, he is lacking in coverage, and has been overrated by the zone.

i was just pointing that out. you mention a flaw in ONE of the few fan favorites on this board, and you get pelted for 5 pages.

Again please provide links to prove the bold. I am on The Zone all day while at work, then log on when I get home and leave it up on one of my tabs. I don't think I have ever once seen a thread that was jockin Goldson. Not a single one.

He is young and many people in the Zone were pleased with his obvious progression throughout the season. He struggle badly early in the season, but was playing VERY well at the end of the season, and anyone who calls his 1st year as a starter a failure is a fool.

You got crap for your thread because you took time out to try to stir shiz up for no reason at all. Few, if any, think he belonged or played at a PB level anytime this last season, but everyone who watched every game is excited about his future.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
I dont understand why a person cant point out a flaw about one of our players unless its Alex without people calling him out Goldson is decent but does make alot of mistakes and wasnt even near a pro bowl level this year.He gace up ALOT of plays through the air. He gave up more big playes through the air than he did picks thats not good

thank you.

let me summarize what i wanted to say.

Goldon is young and shows potential.

however, he is lacking in coverage, and has been overrated by the zone.

i was just pointing that out. you mention a flaw in ONE of the few fan favorites on this board, and you get pelted for 5 pages.

Again please provide links to prove the bold. I am on The Zone all day while at work, then log on when I get home and leave it up on one of my tabs. I don't think I have ever once seen a thread that was jockin Goldson. Not a single one.

He is young and many people in the Zone were pleased with his obvious progression throughout the season. He struggle badly early in the season, but was playing VERY well at the end of the season, and anyone who calls his 1st year as a starter a failure is a fool.

You got crap for your thread because you took time out to try to stir shiz up for no reason at all. Few, if any, think he belonged or played at a PB level anytime this last season, but everyone who watched every game is excited about his future.

nobody ever said he was a failure, i just said he was bad at coverage. which is a S top priority. i wouldnt have made the thread if i hadnt heard people overrating his play this season. i like Goldson, i dont want to create a bashfest thread about him, but i felt like the AZ game got people a little too confident about his current skill level.

Give Goldson some time, he'll be a good one. Safety needs playing time in conjunction with the secondary guys to improve. Injury to Clements and switching CB around this year may have affected Goldson's play. He's young, improving, has speed, and can put on the hits and turnovers. If he's marginal in coverage at this time, I'm good with it. Safeties aren't designed to cover WR like a CB, if they could they would be playing CB.

Help over the top, don't let the WR get behind you for a big play, and make the tackles and big hits for turnovers. If he can do all these I'm good with him at FS

Originally posted by Dblj55:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
Our S's get torched far to often

This is also a reflection of our poor pass rush. As our pass rush improved in the 2nd half of the season, thank you A.Brooks, our S's started making big plays.

amazing how a rising tide lifts all the boats eh?

meaning, its funny how people you didn't think were that great all of a sudden start to play 10 times better because they were being held back by something else, either line, or offense, or special teams or w/e.

I think our team improved quite significantly this year. Now, we only have a few holes to fill and they really aren't glaring needs except for offensive line. After that, we sure up our depth, and I think you'll see a good improvement again in 2010.

Good post though.

Originally posted by WINiner:
I would like links to ANYONE saying Goldson is a PB FS. I don't think you will find any, and that this is simply you trying to be a Debbie Downer for the sake of.

For his 1st year starting Goldson showed considerable improvement from the begining of the season to the end of it. I don't think ANYONE has said he is a PB safety, but I do think that evidence of his maturation has folks comfy with him manning one of (and really either one imo) our safety positions into the future.

I second this quote. Toward the end of the season he played a lot better.Maybe it was due in part with the weaker part of the schedule??He played pretty good being his 1st year.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
I dont understand why a person cant point out a flaw about one of our players unless its Alex without people calling him out Goldson is decent but does make alot of mistakes and wasnt even near a pro bowl level this year.He gace up ALOT of plays through the air. He gave up more big playes through the air than he did picks thats not good

thank you.

let me summarize what i wanted to say.

Goldon is young and shows potential.

however, he is lacking in coverage, and has been overrated by the zone.

i was just pointing that out. you mention a flaw in ONE of the few fan favorites on this board, and you get pelted for 5 pages.

Again please provide links to prove the bold. I am on The Zone all day while at work, then log on when I get home and leave it up on one of my tabs. I don't think I have ever once seen a thread that was jockin Goldson. Not a single one.

He is young and many people in the Zone were pleased with his obvious progression throughout the season. He struggle badly early in the season, but was playing VERY well at the end of the season, and anyone who calls his 1st year as a starter a failure is a fool.

You got crap for your thread because you took time out to try to stir shiz up for no reason at all. Few, if any, think he belonged or played at a PB level anytime this last season, but everyone who watched every game is excited about his future.

Well said! Goldson was a first year starter and got better and better! he will b fine!

Wow 100% agree i knew he was a big hitter and good for FF but i didnt know how terrible he was in coverage... i really like this kid tho so i hope he works hard on that over the offseason

Goldson has some good and bad habits.......i'd love to see our defense play with a lead more often....Teams with good offense allow their defenses to take chances....We couldn't take very many due to the fact that our offense is subpar=Soft coverage defense

Originally posted by smileyman:

Originally posted by Niners99:


all the homers that got upset with me for poking holes in Goldsons season are doing so over nothing. i gave him credit where it was due, but pointed out that, regardless of HOW bad he was in coverage this season, he was bad either way. be it the very worst, or the 10th worst. the fact is that he sucked at coverage.

last time i checked, a FS's biggest priority is coverage.

If a FS's biggest priority is coverage than why in the world would you even want to talk about sacks? Rather than talk about the total number of yards given up you need to talk about the total number of yards given up per target attempt and the total number of yards given up per snap. If we look at it based on total time on the field it becomes clear that he is by no means horrible at coverage.

Goldson took more snaps out there than any safety in the league but one, and that was Chris Hope, a SS. You say he gave up 448 yards in coverage. Well he took 1108 snaps, so he only gave up 2.4 yards every time he was on the field.

He had 13 MT (according to PFF). That equals out to less than 1 per game (pretty good in my book), and 1 in every 85 snaps.

He gave up 438 yards according to PFF, in 52 throws at him. That's 8.4 yards per throw. (That 52 attempts is the 2nd most out of all FS, 5th most out of all safeties.)


Let's compare his Yards per target with all the Pro Bowl FS (including alternates).

Darren Sharper (Pro Bowl FS). Targeted 37 times and gave up 221 yards. 5.9 yards per target

Ed Reed (Pro Bowl FS).Targeted 18 times and gave up 122 yards. 6.7 yards per target.

Jarius Byrd (Pro Bowl FS). Targeted 18 times and gave up 124 yards. 6.8 yards per target.

Brandon Merriweather (Pro Bowl FS). Targeted 30 times and gave up 296 yards. That's 9.8 yards per target.

Antoine Bethea (Pro Bowl FS) was targeted 26 times and gave up 229 yards. That's 8.8 yards per target.

Nick Collins (Pro Bowl FS) was targeted 29 times and gave up 266 yards. That's 9.2 yards per target.

Antrel Rolle (Pro Bowl FS) was targeted 34 times and gave up 284 yards. That's 8.4 yards per target.


Average yard per target given up by Pro Bowl Free Safeties in 2009--7.9 yards. Yards per target given up by Dashon Goldson--8.4. Difference 1/2 a yard, yet you're calling him the worst cover guy in the league.


For fun let's look at the strong safeties too.

Brian Dawkins (Pro Bowl Safety).Targeted 48 times, gave up 303 yards. 6.3 yards per target.

Yeremiah Bell (Pro Bowl safety). Targeted 61 times, gave up 409 yards. 6.7 yards per target.

Adrian Wilson (Pro Bowl safety). Targeted 52 times, gave up 330 yards. 6.3 yards per target

Roman Harper (Pro Bowl safety). Targeted 39 times, gave up 319 yards. 8.2 yards per target

Quinten Mikell (Pro Bowl Safety). Targeted 54 times, gave up 289 yards. 5.4 yards per target.


Average yard per target of this year's Prow Bowl Safeties--6.6 yards. Average yards per target of Dashon Goldson--8.4, about 1.5 yards more.


Based on yards per target attempt Goldson absolutely could be a Pro-Bowler, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him there next year.

Wow. Nice. Anyway, i like to see reggie smith get game time this year...

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by m_brockalexander:
Good post. Still wondering where you get these stats, but I do believe they are accurate. Goldson made some strides at the end of the year, but the Niners need to add some speed and coverage ability at the safety position. Lewis never was a great coverage guy and he is one concussion away from retirement. Reggie Smith hasn't shown anything and Roman's decent year last year doesn't erase the two prior horrific years. I would be in favor of adding someone like Earl Thomas or Reshad Jones to team with Goldson for the future.

Or even Kam Chancellor who looked real good in the Shrine game! If Goldson stays at FS, then this cat, Kam, can be had just a tad later and be a great SS for us, IMO. The bottom line is we have some serious options to upgrade the depth of our Safeties through the first four rounds, not just the first two.

This is a great safety class with big bodies and speed.

Top 5 E. Berry
Top 20 E. Thomas
Top 20 T. Mays (I still don't understand all the hate given his skills as a SS not FS)
2nd C. Jones
2-3rd R. Jones
2-3rd N. Allen
3rd M. Burnette
3rd D. Stuckey
3-4th M. Rolle
3-4th K. Chancellor
4-5th B. Church

Now that is one heck of a list my friends. I guarantee one of those cats will be wearing Red N Gold next year!

Lucky us!

Let's hope so and I know it was Dashon's first year of starting but I just see him more as a SS but wonder if it will take much for him to change. Depending on who we get we can change him. If we get Earl Thomas I'd say make him FS.

Good Read... Facts, and I agree for the most part... keep it up

Originally posted by pelos21:
OMG dude chill! It was his first year starting and were already talking probowl caliber! Sure he made mistakes but IT WAS HIS FIRST YEAR!!!!!!! Next year we will talking about how he should of made all pro.

In agree on the whole idea that its his first year and he needs alot of work. Here is my question for you thou... do you think He has the skills to improve on the coverage or will he just be another basher in the back field?

Originally posted by BrianGO:
The truth about statistics, and the way you arrive at your conclusions...

Its absurd.

Its the reason the stock market tanked, the economy is in the tank, people are clueless, etc.

Following statistics, and coming to conclusions entirely based off of them BUNK. Its a worship of a false idol. You can come to ANY conclusion about ANYTHING with enough misleading statistical crap.

The truth about Frank Gore...
The truth about Goldson...
The truth about Vernon Davis...

The truth about statistics is that there is not a SHRED of truth within them.

A quarterback threw for 1,000,000 yards; who cares. Did I see him play? Maybe they were all screen passes to Superman.

Watch the players play and then come to the conclusion. Statistics are just a SHADOW of the truth.

Statistics don't lie? Ha. Statistics are the ultimate tool for lying.

What do you think employment is at in this country? 10%? What a joke. Try 30%.
Through discounting tons of reality, including part-time workers, they created a false statistic to make people feel better.

These days people can be told the sky is green and not blue because the "Center for Real Analysis of Physics" aka CRAP said so.

Frank Gore can't block??? Goldson can't cover??? What a load of CRAP.

Statistics can indeed lie, and they can indeed answer the wrong question, but that's based on the question asked. If you ask the right questions, and bring in critical thinking along with statistics, there is no more powerful tool for really getting to the bottom of something than statistics. After all, science would be based on false misconceptions built on "intuition" without statistics. Mathamatical analysis can answer all questions, if asked correctly. Why are you so offended by this post? It's not like Goldson is Lott, he's open to debate, and there are statistical facts out there that suggest that he may not be as good at preventing the QBs from finding their recievers as other Safeties in the league. Does this claim become fact? No, but there is evidence for it. Unless you've watched every other safety for 16 games per season, I doubt you have a better way of comparing him to others. Scouts do that, and can claim they don't need stats, but that's a full-time job

Originally posted by smileyman:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:
I dont understand why a person cant point out a flaw about one of our players unless its Alex without people calling him out Goldson is decent but does make alot of mistakes and wasnt even near a pro bowl level this year.He gace up ALOT of plays through the air. He gave up more big playes through the air than he did picks thats not good

thank you.

let me summarize what i wanted to say.

Goldon is young and shows potential.

however, he is lacking in coverage, and has been overrated by the zone.

i was just pointing that out. you mention a flaw in ONE of the few fan favorites on this board, and you get pelted for 5 pages.

If you can point out a real flaw instead of an imagined one you wouldn't get pelted. I've posted the stats to show why Goldson is not a bad coverage safety. Refute them or don't make stupid comments.

HE GIVES UP ALOT OF YARDS AND BIG PLAYS


Oh ha ha my bad I forgot the FS position was only about tackling