Why the hate on Singletary?

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by teeohh:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by teeohh:
I don't think he has what it takes.

Why, because he is inexperienced? doesn't call plays? "hired" Raye? is black?

because his conservative philosophy cost us the season, Raye should have never been hired, we'd have Linehan but he didn't want to deal with Singletary's run run run punt vision of the offense

I just don't have faith in him. Don't tell me show me

I think that Sing has shown us enough to be able to say that he is not stubborn. Like I said, IF Raye would've told Sing earlier, that this offense isn't working, he would've changed it, just like Sing changed a lot of other s**t since he's been here.

If he's so conservative why did he allow the switch to a spread? It's more Scott's fault, and Jed's fault that Raye is here, either of these guys could've said NO, and Sing wouldn't be able to do s**t about it.

He would have had an all out mutiny on his hands had he not done something to jump start the Offense. That's why.

I know I'm not the ONLY person to notice that there were a couple times where he all but lost the Offense as well as the Defense. The Defense has spent an INSANE amount of time in pads this season. Not just games but in practice. It was like being in Training Camp for 3 Months for the Defense. All the constant 3 and outs took their toll on the team psyche. If he didn't change it up, the team would have pretty much mailed it in if it would have been business as usual after the change to Smith who has a stronger Passing Arm than Hill.

I know that I'm not the only one that sees this.

~Ceadder

Well, doesn't that make him a better coach for listening to his players?

Sorry but you don't get it both ways. You took the tact that he had no choice if Jed and Scott wanted Raye. But reality is that Sing wanted Raye. Based on that he knew more about Martz Offense and coould do what SING wanted and that was the Power Run game. You also reminded me that he played for the Bears. A team that had success with the Power Run. Remember Fridge Perry? So that was HIS baby not Raye's. If he wanted to get rid of Raye, I think that 5 consecutive losses could have swung that. With the blessings of Scott AND Jed had Sing thought it was Raye's performance as the OC that was hindering things.

So while I agree with what you mean, your argument is invalid. And I've giving you reasonable arguments as to how it is invalid.

I'll say it yet again for those who are not clear on this. I do not believe that Sing should be fired. He tried something and it did not work. That's to be expected from a Rookie HC. I pointed out before the season even started that we were going to hamstring this team if Shaun Started under Center. Even pointed out that while Alex was not spectacular in Preseason that he had shown that he could do more with the ball than Shaun could ever dream of. Especially in the Run first oriented Offense. Smith does a pretty damn good job selling the Run. As well as delivering the ball on the exchange. So it only made sense to go with Alex over Shaun. That move was Raye's only in that he didn't have alot of time with the man that should have been the incumbent to begin with.

Now that said I think that Raye is to blame in that he could have been a little more imaginative on the calls. Sing knows Run Pass Draw Pitch etc. Raye knows the playbook. Or at least he damn well better know it anyway.

So working within Sing's Offensive motto he could have run alot of plays but then we're right back to a Line that couldn't blow a Defensive Line of Campfire Girls off the ball let alone protect the QB from them.

~Ceadder

I understand that Sing had no choice but to switch the style, I'm not giving him full credit for that. Yes, he should've known better than to use a power running style with this s**tty OL, but that's were his inexperience came into play, which is forgivable, like you said.

But, why are people so afraid of a power running game? Steelers won the SB with a power running game, Giants won the SB with a power running game, and not too long ago Raves won the SB with a power running game. Now, if we have the same OL next year (which I doubt) and he decides to do the same crap, then go ahead and bash the guy and call for his head, but I believe it's to early for that.

We are too concerned about keeping a tradition, than actually winning games. With the right OL, we could win the SB thanks to our defense, and a power running game, you don't need a flashy passing offense (that rarely works, even the Colts had to rely on their defense to win).

If next year we get the right OL, I have no problem going to a power running game again, Alex should learn how to takes snaps from under center, not only from the shotgun. I rather find a QB who can do that, than start the whole offense from scratch around Alex.

Actually the Steelers won the Super Bowl on the Pass not the Run. Nevermind that both Super Bowls were rather tainted. Giants won on the Pass as well. Mmmm nope Dilfer had a HELL of a Game winning the Super Bowl via the Pass. In fact I can't remember the last team that won on a "Power Run" game. Cause not even the Broncos won on a Run Game. You know I think the last Power Run led Super Bowl Offense was the Skins. The Bengals tried it twice lost both. Atlanta tried and failed as well. Green Bay didn't But the team that featured a Power Run in the Super Bowl and were Successful were the Skins. They had the Hogs and ran all day with Riggins on Denver if my memory serves me correctly. Not since then do I remember a Power Run Team actually Running it in the Super Bowl.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that I'm not.

Look I have NO problem with the Power Run. I really don't think any 9er fan prior to the season had an issue with the ideal. Because when you run you control the clock and wear down your Opponent's Defense. This makes sense. But then we went on that binge of Losses and it was CLEARLY not working. People were leery of Smith more than the Power Run. Lots of people here were still backing Hill, if for no other reason than they were afraid Smith would tank the season. You STILL see it from the people that would rather have gone with Davis over Smith and say ignorant things like recalling a Walsh quote to defend their stance.

It's not the scheme per se. It's the talent and the misuse of it more than anything else.

I could deal with Snyder cause the injuries made him playing mandatory. But it's clear that our Line personnel are not being used correctly either. Especially when they play better in Passing situations from the Spread.

Alex CAN play Under Center. He's not the issue. He took every snap in '06 Under Center if memory serves correctly. He had some success doing that. Just didn't have the protection nor the playmakers. Gore was solid but Antonio Bryant and Battle do not a Receiver Corps make.

I firmly believe that the issues are more position coaching related than anything else right now. There really is no other way to justify falling short of the Playoffs with an 8-8 team right now that SHOULD have had at least 3 more wins. And those are Alex Smith Started games. Not Shaun Hill started games.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by teeohh:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by teeohh:
I don't think he has what it takes.

Why, because he is inexperienced? doesn't call plays? "hired" Raye? is black?

because his conservative philosophy cost us the season, Raye should have never been hired, we'd have Linehan but he didn't want to deal with Singletary's run run run punt vision of the offense

I just don't have faith in him. Don't tell me show me

I think that Sing has shown us enough to be able to say that he is not stubborn. Like I said, IF Raye would've told Sing earlier, that this offense isn't working, he would've changed it, just like Sing changed a lot of other s**t since he's been here.

If he's so conservative why did he allow the switch to a spread? It's more Scott's fault, and Jed's fault that Raye is here, either of these guys could've said NO, and Sing wouldn't be able to do s**t about it.

He would have had an all out mutiny on his hands had he not done something to jump start the Offense. That's why.

I know I'm not the ONLY person to notice that there were a couple times where he all but lost the Offense as well as the Defense. The Defense has spent an INSANE amount of time in pads this season. Not just games but in practice. It was like being in Training Camp for 3 Months for the Defense. All the constant 3 and outs took their toll on the team psyche. If he didn't change it up, the team would have pretty much mailed it in if it would have been business as usual after the change to Smith who has a stronger Passing Arm than Hill.

I know that I'm not the only one that sees this.

~Ceadder

Well, doesn't that make him a better coach for listening to his players?

Sorry but you don't get it both ways. You took the tact that he had no choice if Jed and Scott wanted Raye. But reality is that Sing wanted Raye. Based on that he knew more about Martz Offense and coould do what SING wanted and that was the Power Run game. You also reminded me that he played for the Bears. A team that had success with the Power Run. Remember Fridge Perry? So that was HIS baby not Raye's. If he wanted to get rid of Raye, I think that 5 consecutive losses could have swung that. With the blessings of Scott AND Jed had Sing thought it was Raye's performance as the OC that was hindering things.

So while I agree with what you mean, your argument is invalid. And I've giving you reasonable arguments as to how it is invalid.

I'll say it yet again for those who are not clear on this. I do not believe that Sing should be fired. He tried something and it did not work. That's to be expected from a Rookie HC. I pointed out before the season even started that we were going to hamstring this team if Shaun Started under Center. Even pointed out that while Alex was not spectacular in Preseason that he had shown that he could do more with the ball than Shaun could ever dream of. Especially in the Run first oriented Offense. Smith does a pretty damn good job selling the Run. As well as delivering the ball on the exchange. So it only made sense to go with Alex over Shaun. That move was Raye's only in that he didn't have alot of time with the man that should have been the incumbent to begin with.

Now that said I think that Raye is to blame in that he could have been a little more imaginative on the calls. Sing knows Run Pass Draw Pitch etc. Raye knows the playbook. Or at least he damn well better know it anyway.

So working within Sing's Offensive motto he could have run alot of plays but then we're right back to a Line that couldn't blow a Defensive Line of Campfire Girls off the ball let alone protect the QB from them.

~Ceadder

I understand that Sing had no choice but to switch the style, I'm not giving him full credit for that. Yes, he should've known better than to use a power running style with this s**tty OL, but that's were his inexperience came into play, which is forgivable, like you said.

But, why are people so afraid of a power running game? Steelers won the SB with a power running game, Giants won the SB with a power running game, and not too long ago Raves won the SB with a power running game. Now, if we have the same OL next year (which I doubt) and he decides to do the same crap, then go ahead and bash the guy and call for his head, but I believe it's to early for that.

We are too concerned about keeping a tradition, than actually winning games. With the right OL, we could win the SB thanks to our defense, and a power running game, you don't need a flashy passing offense (that rarely works, even the Colts had to rely on their defense to win).

If next year we get the right OL, I have no problem going to a power running game again, Alex should learn how to takes snaps from under center, not only from the shotgun. I rather find a QB who can do that, than start the whole offense from scratch around Alex.

Actually the Steelers won the Super Bowl on the Pass not the Run. Nevermind that both Super Bowls were rather tainted. Giants won on the Pass as well. Mmmm nope Dilfer had a HELL of a Game winning the Super Bowl via the Pass. In fact I can't remember the last team that won on a "Power Run" game. Cause not even the Broncos won on a Run Game. You know I think the last Power Run led Super Bowl Offense was the Skins. The Bengals tried it twice lost both. Atlanta tried and failed as well. Green Bay didn't But the team that featured a Power Run in the Super Bowl and were Successful were the Skins. They had the Hogs and ran all day with Riggins on Denver if my memory serves me correctly. Not since then do I remember a Power Run Team actually Running it in the Super Bowl.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that I'm not.

Look I have NO problem with the Power Run. I really don't think any 9er fan prior to the season had an issue with the ideal. Because when you run you control the clock and wear down your Opponent's Defense. This makes sense. But then we went on that binge of Losses and it was CLEARLY not working. People were leery of Smith more than the Power Run. Lots of people here were still backing Hill, if for no other reason than they were afraid Smith would tank the season. You STILL see it from the people that would rather have gone with Davis over Smith and say ignorant things like recalling a Walsh quote to defend their stance.

It's not the scheme per se. It's the talent and the misuse of it more than anything else.

I could deal with Snyder cause the injuries made him playing mandatory. But it's clear that our Line personnel are not being used correctly either. Especially when they play better in Passing situations from the Spread.

Alex CAN play Under Center. He's not the issue. He took every snap in '06 Under Center if memory serves correctly. He had some success doing that. Just didn't have the protection nor the playmakers. Gore was solid but Antonio Bryant and Battle do not a Receiver Corps make.

I firmly believe that the issues are more position coaching related than anything else right now. There really is no other way to justify falling short of the Playoffs with an 8-8 team right now that SHOULD have had at least 3 more wins. And those are Alex Smith Started games. Not Shaun Hill started games.

~Ceadder

I'm not saying that you have to run the ball in the SB to win, but that's how those teams got there. The Steelers with The Bus, and Staley; Giants with Bradshaw, Ward, Jacobs; Ravens with Jamal Lewis. If it wasn't for teams respecting their running game that much, neither QB's would've had success.

But, I'm still not sold on Alex being a QB from under the center, even in '06, Gore allowed for much of that success. He has done really poor under center this year, think we can agree on that. Hopefully it can change, I'm not one of those fans that's gonna hate Alex no matter what he does, I always give credit, were credit is due.

Besides that, pretty much true that you said, and we agree more, than disagree.

Well I think that if we could give our QB more than 3 seconds from the snap, he will have success more than failure. I don't care WHO the guy is. Hill was getting roughed up repeatedly when he was taking snaps under Center.

And I don't blame anyone for questioning Smith Under Center. We haven't seen him there much and when we have he's getting killed more often than being successful. I was shocked that we went with the IForm with Smith Under Center in Philly. That was just stupid. Yeah let's send a guy that isn't yet 100% from the injury he sustained to his throwning shoulder into Philly with a Crap Line in front of him and expect him to throw it down field.

It's almost like they went into the game with Wishful Thinking as their game plan. That I do blame on Sing. He's the guy in charge. If Raye stuck to his guns and tried to Power Run against them with THIS Line Sing sure as hell could have put tha kibosh on that.

Thanks for clearing up your stance on Run Game. I can agree with that.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
I honestly believe that Montana & Co. would've won at least 1 SB, without Walsh, maybe not 4, but at least 1 or 2. I don't think we would've won any SB's with Alex and this OL, no matter who the coach. Only so much a coach can do.

They did win one without Walsh.

Originally posted by leolion:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:
I honestly believe that Montana & Co. would've won at least 1 SB, without Walsh, maybe not 4, but at least 1 or 2. I don't think we would've won any SB's with Alex and this OL, no matter who the coach. Only so much a coach can do.

They did win one without Walsh.

Ummm TWO without Walsh. Coach retired after the 3rd one.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

And Sing not an X's and O's guy? I really doubt that. Because that is what made the man a HoF player. He even said it back when I was a kid that he wasn't the biggest or fastest Linebacker, but he made up for it by studying film and by looking over scout diagrams and translating that on the field.

Simply being a smart, HoF LB doesn't automatically make you a good "X's & O's" type coach. There is a world of difference between playing in a scheme and designing one, or between executing a gameplan and creating one. If every great player had the ability to be a great coach than all 32 teams would be set at HC, but Sing hasn't even been so much as a DC. That should tell you something.

Other than that, I agree with everything else you said.

Originally posted by Overkill:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

And Sing not an X's and O's guy? I really doubt that. Because that is what made the man a HoF player. He even said it back when I was a kid that he wasn't the biggest or fastest Linebacker, but he made up for it by studying film and by looking over scout diagrams and translating that on the field.

Simply being a smart, HoF LB doesn't automatically make you a good "X's & O's" type coach. There is a world of difference between playing in a scheme and designing one, or between executing a gameplan and creating one. If every great player had the ability to be a great coach than all 32 teams would be set at HC, but Sing hasn't even been so much as a DC. That should tell you something.

Other than that, I agree with everything else you said.

Perfectly said

Sing came in with a revival-tent presentation of his philosophy of football. The QB was to be simply a game-manager. The offense was to be runs up the middle, over and over, smash-mouthing hapless defenders, grinding out low-scoring, ball-control victories, guaranteed by great defenses.

The key to all of this was to be motivation. Players, he said, can be motivated to do great things, to perform beyond what they thought possible.

He replaced an innovative OC with just about the oldest and most conservative one in the land, this after younger andl more innovative OCs turned down the job because they did not believe that the smashmouth system would work.

We heard of long and energetic motivational speeches, even the pulling down of pants. There were the man-made mountains and very difficult practices. He yelled at sallow reporters who dared to question his methods and he tried to control access to Raye, keeping him from being interviewed as much as possible.

Really, what realistic fan would buy into this? Sure, there were the "Oooh, oooh, I would run through a wall for him" posts, but more of us were doubters and doubters are always labelled haters on sports forums.

Perhaps more importantly, Sing did just about everything completely opposite of how Walsh did it. Don't think this is not important in the savvy Bay Area where the Walsh model is clearly king.

So, some actual haters for sure, but most of use are simply skeptical and are not sure he can adapt to the modern reality of this game. We wonder if he won't revert to smashmouth whenever he thinks he can. Note today's game: it seemed he thought the Niners could play a dead-conservative game against a woeful team and that is what he tried to do.

As they say, wait to next year. If the coaching seems rational and the team progresses (and it really should be a good team), then Sing will be annointed as a god around here and the skeptical/hating mood will change, well, 180.

Real easy: we aren't winning. If we had a 10-6 record, Sing would be God around here.

Y'all must be crazy; I wouldn't trade Singletary for the world. In his first year he took us to 8-8, next year we'll be in the playoffs.

It's funny to me how fans act like they are so perfect and they have all the right answers, it's easy to second guess.

The buck always stops with the HC. We finished 8-8. We didn't make the playoffs.
Singletary is an avg coach, but because this was his first full season as the HC, he gets some extra credit.
This has been discussed over hundreds of threads: we need to make changes to the OLINE, OC and defensive backs.
Next season, the key people to watch: Alex, OLINE, Singletary and the OC (whoever that is)

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by redmanc07:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by 9erObsession:
Once Shannahan became available Sing was going to be on a short leash. A lot of fans were torn b/w his promotion. Some dislike is warranted but I feel a lot is unwarranted because of who is available.

wtf did Shanahan do before his back-to-back SB's?

Elway and Davis were garbage, obviously Shanahan made them who they were...

He couldn't even win a playoff game after they retired, and if it wasn't for Davis he would've had 0 SB's on his resume.

A guy that took a team on his back to several superbowls was garbage? ARE YOU SERIOUS? I dont like Elway but he is better then some nobody you paint him out to be. So tell me what did Shanny do after Elway retired? Win ONE playoff game over a 10 year span. Yes lets bring that here!

sarcasm? don't you see how I bashed him twice...for some reason you decided to stop reading half way into it...

I know thats why i put the little dunce guy at the end and not mr angry face

I don't hate Singletary...I like many things about him. However, I'm not convinced he's the guy that'll lead us to the promised land, either. It took him over half the season to realize he didn't have a smash-mouth offense...he's been routinely out-coached in most games...his game management isn't what it needs to be. Those are just some of my criticisms. Yes, love his fire, passion, etc...but, that's not enough to win in the NFL...you've got to have smarts, too. You've got to learn from your mistakes....got to be consistent, innovative, flexible. He's got 25 games under his belt now...so, it's reasonable to expect more from him next year. I hope he's got it in him...but, I'm afraid he's got limitations. You see, the Yorks have consistently tried to get by on the cheap...apparently not willing to pay top dollar for an experienced, proven winner, either as head coach or GM. As in most things, you get what you pay for...

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:

Originally posted by TheG0RE49er:

Originally posted by Norwalks_Best:
broken promises will explain the dislike in Singletary!

what are we women?

Like I said, 2 plays away from the playoffs, a batted pass by Roman, and the TD catch by VD, and everybody would be swinging on Sing's nuts; not his fault that it didn't happen. I hold the players much more accountable than I do Sing, and that's the way it should be.

People don't criticize Phil Jackson if the Lakers lose.

actually as a huge Lakers fan Phil Jackson is criticized alot! But again you can't compare a 10 time world champion coach to Singletary which is his first year at the helm!

No doubt I like Singletary but he shouldn't promise fans about playoffs he losses his credibility as a man, coach, and what he preaches so if I was him I will just shut up and go by what he says "don't tell me, show me"

That's the 9ers PR department more than it's Sing.

Even so you WANT your Coach to be your mouthpiece not the under achieving players.

I mean we had ONE mouthpiece issue from Duke and the Bears all but shut him down. I bet Sing asked him after the game if he accomplished what he set out to.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by TXNinerFan52:
Y'all must be crazy; I wouldn't trade Singletary for the world. In his first year he took us to 8-8, next year we'll be in the playoffs.

It's funny to me how fans act like they are so perfect and they have all the right answers, it's easy to second guess.

But...

but...

but...




I do have all the right answers. I have the Crib Notes right here next to me. God himself gave me them. So I don't see why nobody is listening.


~Ceadder