The secondary is the problem, not the pass rush!

Starting OLB tandems in the 3-4 scheme and their NFL rank in sacks.

Rank #1
4 James Harrison PIT 10.0
11 LaMarr Woodley PIT 8.0
total 18

#2
1 Elvis Demervil- Den 15.0
156 M. Haggan- Den 1.0
total 16

#3
13 Joey Porter MIA 7.0
24 Jason Taylor MIA 6.0
total 13

#4
8 DeMarcus Ware DAL OLB 9.0
111 Anthony Spencer DAL 2.0
total 11

#4
13 Shaun Phillips SD 7.0
55 Shawne Merriman SD 4.0
total 11

#5
13 Clay Matthews GB 7.0
70 Aaron Kampman GB 3.5
total 10.5

#5
19 Kamerion Wimbley CLE 6.5
55 David Bowens CLE 4.0
total 10.5

#6
34 Manny Lawson SF 5.5
48 Parys Haralson SF 4.5
total 10

#7
70 Terrell Suggs BAL 3.5
24 Jarret Johnson BAL 6.0
total 9.5

#8
83 Adalius Thomas NE 3.0
34 Tully Banta-Cain NE 5.5
total 8.5

#9
48 Clark Haggans ARI 4.5
70 Chike Okeafor ARI 3.5
total 8

#10
19 Tamba Hali KC 6.5
195 Mike Vrabel KC 1.0
total 7.5

#11
38 Calvin Pace NYJ 5.0
111 Bryan Thomas NYJ 2.0
total 7


Now we rank in the middle in sacks with our OLBs. We rank tied for 7th in total sacks with 30. So we are generating decent pressure. We also can stop the run as evident by our 5th ranked run defense. So whats the problem?

The problem is the secondary. we are terrible in pass coverage. Look at this for a comparable.

The NYJ rank 21st in sacks with only 24 and they rank dead last in OLB sacks. Yet they are the #1 ranked pass defense in the NFL. Why? because they have Revis and a secondary that shuts teams down. We can get 100 sacks a season but without a solid secondary we will get picked apart consistently.

We need to invest some big money in our secondary or we will get toasted for years to come. I am calling for immediate action in repairing an ageing secondary. I know people think we need another OLB but the numbers show more pressing needs. I can live with Manny and Parys. I cant live with getting shredded in the secondary every week.

[ Edited by MadMartz on Dec 9, 2009 at 13:21:33 ]

It seems to me that when we blitz we either get the sack or give up a huge play..the single coverage doesn't seem to be enough when we blitz..just my opinion

The number of sacks is a misleading stat. It's much better to come out with no sacks at all but be on the QB's face constantly than sack the QB 4 or 5 times but not even get close to him the rest of the time.

So I think both the pass rush and the secondary have problems. We do not generate enough pressure and we have some unreliable players back there, including Goldson.

lol, number two is funny. Thats basically just dumerville.

And yea, they need to show QB pressures rather than just sacks.

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
The number of sacks is a misleading stat. It's much better to come out with no sacks at all but be on the QB's face constantly than sack the QB 4 or 5 times but not even get close to him the rest of the time.

So I think both the pass rush and the secondary have problems. We do not generate enough pressure and we have some unreliable players back there, including Goldson.

Our corners and their 10 mile cushion has alot to do with us not getting pressure. If the first read is open then the qb throws it before we can get to him. You gotta cover!

[ Edited by MadMartz on Dec 9, 2009 at 13:22:29 ]

Though I think you are over-stating the case a bit, it cannot be denied that Goldson's inexperience at safety has hurt the team. He has made some HUGE blunders in coverage as well as having Keith Lewis Disease - he goes for the knockout far too often instead of just wrapping up a ball carrier.

But to your overall point, Clements has never earned the kind of money he got on the basis of his play. Tarell Brown is still learning and has been very inconsistent. Bly in also inconsistent and gambles too much. Lewis and Roman have NEVER been strong in coverage.

The other guys are mostly ST so I'll leave them out.

The only secondary guy who has had a decent season is Spencer. Other than two plays that I can recall, he has been fine.

In summary, too many young, inexperienced guys along with older guys who were never good in coverage.

However, sacks alone do not tell the story. Pressures are just as important as sacks, even more so because the force hurried, often ill-advised throws that lead to picks. The 49ers have not had a game where they were getting constant pressure. THAT is the key issue, not just the sack number.

We need a playmaker at Safety. Michael Lewis has no problems with blitzing and supporting the run, but he's getting slower and slower in coverage. Goldson seems to be a few steps too late in the big pass plays. Simply, we don't have enough INTs from the Safeties.

Spencer has had a quiet year, and that is not a bad thing - he's rebounded well from his injury, and I'm happy to have him on the team. The other CB though, is a question for next year. Tarrell Brown has the good and bad days.

We need to sort out the future of Clements - does he move to Safety, restructure his contract, or get released? Behind him, I think the CBs aside from Spencer are weak, and teams will try to exploit that.

The Walt Harris and Nate Clements injuries really hurt. Right now only Shawntae is doing a decent job. Bre Bly is washed up. Tarell Brown shows flashes but needs to be more consistent.

Walt is old but that old man sure can cover.

Originally posted by dj43:
Though I think you are over-stating the case a bit, it cannot be denied that Goldson's inexperience at safety has hurt the team. He has made some HUGE blunders in coverage as well as having Keith Lewis Disease - he goes for the knockout far too often instead of just wrapping up a ball carrier.

But to your overall point, Clements has never earned the kind of money he got on the basis of his play. Tarell Brown is still learning and has been very inconsistent. Bly in also inconsistent and gambles too much. Lewis and Roman have NEVER been strong in coverage.

The other guys are mostly ST so I'll leave them out.

The only secondary guy who has had a decent season is Spencer. Other than two plays that I can recall, he has been fine.

In summary, too many young, inexperienced guys along with older guys who were never good in coverage.

However, sacks alone do not tell the story. Pressures are just as important as sacks, even more so because the force hurried, often ill-advised throws that lead to picks. The 49ers have not had a game where they were getting constant pressure. THAT is the key issue, not just the sack number.

Quite agree and an intelligent critique of our defensive frailties.

Also to add the sack numbers came again very few teams. Did we get to better QBs much this season? Apart from Warner I don't really remember.

Originally posted by fanmusclecars:
The Walt Harris and Nate Clements injuries really hurt. Right now only Shawntae is doing a decent job. Bre Bly is washed up. Tarell Brown shows flashes but needs to be more consistent.

Walt is old but that old man sure can cover.

Walt is going to be 35 and coming off of a serious injury. I dont expect him to be back. Even if he is I dont expect him to be his old self or even start.

Originally posted by MadMartz:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
The number of sacks is a misleading stat. It's much better to come out with no sacks at all but be on the QB's face constantly than sack the QB 4 or 5 times but not even get close to him the rest of the time.

So I think both the pass rush and the secondary have problems. We do not generate enough pressure and we have some unreliable players back there, including Goldson.

Our corners and their 10 mile cushion has alot to do with us not getting pressure. If the first read is open then the qb throws it before we can get to him. You gotta cover!

That too.

Too conservative. When they have played press coverage, they have generally done better. However, Goldson's lack of experience in reading plays and coverage have forced Manusky (IMO) to be more conservative. Until, or unless, Goldson becomes more effective in reading offenses, they will have to be more conservative. When you have a safety that reads and can cover, you can take chances with your CBs in press coverage.

A dilemma...

Pressure or lack of is the main defensive problem.

Originally posted by MadMartz:
Starting OLB tandems in the 3-4 scheme and their NFL rank in sacks.

Rank #1
4 James Harrison PIT 10.0
11 LaMarr Woodley PIT 8.0
total 18

#2
1 Elvis Demervil- Den 15.0
156 M. Haggan- Den 1.0
total 16

#3
13 Joey Porter MIA 7.0
24 Jason Taylor MIA 6.0
total 13

#4
8 DeMarcus Ware DAL OLB 9.0
111 Anthony Spencer DAL 2.0
total 11

#4
13 Shaun Phillips SD 7.0
55 Shawne Merriman SD 4.0
total 11

#5
13 Clay Matthews GB 7.0
70 Aaron Kampman GB 3.5
total 10.5

#5
19 Kamerion Wimbley CLE 6.5
55 David Bowens CLE 4.0
total 10.5

#6
34 Manny Lawson SF 5.5
48 Parys Haralson SF 4.5
total 10

#7
70 Terrell Suggs BAL 3.5
24 Jarret Johnson BAL 6.0
total 9.5

#8
83 Adalius Thomas NE 3.0
34 Tully Banta-Cain NE 5.5
total 8.5

#9
48 Clark Haggans ARI 4.5
70 Chike Okeafor ARI 3.5
total 8

#10
19 Tamba Hali KC 6.5
195 Mike Vrabel KC 1.0
total 7.5

#11
38 Calvin Pace NYJ 5.0
111 Bryan Thomas NYJ 2.0
total 7


Now we rank in the middle in sacks with our OLBs. We rank tied for 7th in total sacks with 30. So we are generating decent pressure. We also can stop the run as evident by our 5th ranked run defense. So whats the problem?

The problem is the secondary. we are terrible in pass coverage. Look at this for a comparable.

The NYJ rank 21st in sacks with only 24 and they rank dead last in OLB sacks. Yet they are the #1 ranked pass defense in the NFL. Why? because they have Revis and a secondary that shuts teams down. We can get 100 sacks a season but without a solid secondary we will get picked apart consistently.

We need to invest some big money in our secondary or we will get toasted for years to come. I am calling for immediate action in repairing an ageing secondary. I know people think we need another OLB but the numbers show more pressing needs. I can live with Manny and Parys. I cant live with getting shredded in the secondary every week.

Thank you, master of the obvious. Both starting CBs are out for the season (Nate may play week 17), and the backups are hurt too.

Draft Eric Berry and move Goldston to SS and I bet it will be a big improvment.

Originally posted by NC49erfan82:
Draft Eric Berry and move Goldston to SS and I bet it will be a big improvment.

I've been looking at it and I'm not sure about Goldson at SS. The guy takes bad angles. I do not know if that is just lack of experience or lack of instincts and that will be up to the coaches because I can't say for certain either way. If we can restructure Clements and move him to SS and have Berry at FS that would be better I think. With that combo our CB's could be a lot more aggressive because they would have so much over the top help.