The secondary is the problem, not the pass rush!

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by MadMartz:
Starting OLB tandems in the 3-4 scheme and their NFL rank in sacks.

Rank #1
4 James Harrison PIT 10.0
11 LaMarr Woodley PIT 8.0
total 18

#2
1 Elvis Demervil- Den 15.0
156 M. Haggan- Den 1.0
total 16

#3
13 Joey Porter MIA 7.0
24 Jason Taylor MIA 6.0
total 13

#4
8 DeMarcus Ware DAL OLB 9.0
111 Anthony Spencer DAL 2.0
total 11

#4
13 Shaun Phillips SD 7.0
55 Shawne Merriman SD 4.0
total 11

#5
13 Clay Matthews GB 7.0
70 Aaron Kampman GB 3.5
total 10.5

#5
19 Kamerion Wimbley CLE 6.5
55 David Bowens CLE 4.0
total 10.5

#6
34 Manny Lawson SF 5.5
48 Parys Haralson SF 4.5
total 10

#7
70 Terrell Suggs BAL 3.5
24 Jarret Johnson BAL 6.0
total 9.5

#8
83 Adalius Thomas NE 3.0
34 Tully Banta-Cain NE 5.5
total 8.5

#9
48 Clark Haggans ARI 4.5
70 Chike Okeafor ARI 3.5
total 8

#10
19 Tamba Hali KC 6.5
195 Mike Vrabel KC 1.0
total 7.5

#11
38 Calvin Pace NYJ 5.0
111 Bryan Thomas NYJ 2.0
total 7


Now we rank in the middle in sacks with our OLBs. We rank tied for 7th in total sacks with 30. So we are generating decent pressure. We also can stop the run as evident by our 5th ranked run defense. So whats the problem?

The problem is the secondary. we are terrible in pass coverage. Look at this for a comparable.

The NYJ rank 21st in sacks with only 24 and they rank dead last in OLB sacks. Yet they are the #1 ranked pass defense in the NFL. Why? because they have Revis and a secondary that shuts teams down. We can get 100 sacks a season but without a solid secondary we will get picked apart consistently.

We need to invest some big money in our secondary or we will get toasted for years to come. I am calling for immediate action in repairing an ageing secondary. I know people think we need another OLB but the numbers show more pressing needs. I can live with Manny and Parys. I cant live with getting shredded in the secondary every week.

Thank you, master of the obvious. Both starting CBs are out for the season (Nate may play week 17), and the backups are hurt too.

I dont know where you have been but we have been at best a 28th ranked pass defense for how many years now? Even with Nate this year we were still at the bottom of the NFL. We get abused by other teams receivers. And thats just keeping it real!

Originally posted by MadMartz:

Originally posted by nickbradley:

Originally posted by MadMartz:
Starting OLB tandems in the 3-4 scheme and their NFL rank in sacks.

Rank #1
4 James Harrison PIT 10.0
11 LaMarr Woodley PIT 8.0
total 18

#2
1 Elvis Demervil- Den 15.0
156 M. Haggan- Den 1.0
total 16

#3
13 Joey Porter MIA 7.0
24 Jason Taylor MIA 6.0
total 13

#4
8 DeMarcus Ware DAL OLB 9.0
111 Anthony Spencer DAL 2.0
total 11

#4
13 Shaun Phillips SD 7.0
55 Shawne Merriman SD 4.0
total 11

#5
13 Clay Matthews GB 7.0
70 Aaron Kampman GB 3.5
total 10.5

#5
19 Kamerion Wimbley CLE 6.5
55 David Bowens CLE 4.0
total 10.5

#6
34 Manny Lawson SF 5.5
48 Parys Haralson SF 4.5
total 10

#7
70 Terrell Suggs BAL 3.5
24 Jarret Johnson BAL 6.0
total 9.5

#8
83 Adalius Thomas NE 3.0
34 Tully Banta-Cain NE 5.5
total 8.5

#9
48 Clark Haggans ARI 4.5
70 Chike Okeafor ARI 3.5
total 8

#10
19 Tamba Hali KC 6.5
195 Mike Vrabel KC 1.0
total 7.5

#11
38 Calvin Pace NYJ 5.0
111 Bryan Thomas NYJ 2.0
total 7


Now we rank in the middle in sacks with our OLBs. We rank tied for 7th in total sacks with 30. So we are generating decent pressure. We also can stop the run as evident by our 5th ranked run defense. So whats the problem?

The problem is the secondary. we are terrible in pass coverage. Look at this for a comparable.

The NYJ rank 21st in sacks with only 24 and they rank dead last in OLB sacks. Yet they are the #1 ranked pass defense in the NFL. Why? because they have Revis and a secondary that shuts teams down. We can get 100 sacks a season but without a solid secondary we will get picked apart consistently.

We need to invest some big money in our secondary or we will get toasted for years to come. I am calling for immediate action in repairing an ageing secondary. I know people think we need another OLB but the numbers show more pressing needs. I can live with Manny and Parys. I cant live with getting shredded in the secondary every week.

Thank you, master of the obvious. Both starting CBs are out for the season (Nate may play week 17), and the backups are hurt too.

I dont know where you have been but we have been at best a 28th ranked pass defense for how many years now? Even with Nate this year we were still at the bottom of the NFL. We get abused by other teams receivers. And thats just keeping it real!

Agreed. I think Brown is good. I think our safeties are not.

Lot's of Spencer is having a decent season comments in this thread.. I think his play has been way better than decent, it's been actually good. Opposing teams are not thorwing his way very much at all. This past week Spencer had only 3 balls thrown his way with only 1 completion for a couple of yards.. Hasselbeck completed 25 passes, but only 1 against Spencer.

But to the point of the thread, the rest of the secondary needs an upgrade and I wouldn't be opposed to drafting Joe Haden, Eric Berry or anyone else that can improve our overal pass defense.

Originally posted by NC49erfan82:
Draft Eric Berry and move Goldston to SS and I bet it will be a big improvment.

From reports I have read, Berry is not the cover guy the 49ers need. I agree with the concept however.

Originally posted by Sulla:
We need a playmaker at Safety. Michael Lewis has no problems with blitzing and supporting the run, but he's getting slower and slower in coverage. Goldson seems to be a few steps too late in the big pass plays. Simply, we don't have enough INTs from the Safeties.

Spencer has had a quiet year, and that is not a bad thing - he's rebounded well from his injury, and I'm happy to have him on the team. The other CB though, is a question for next year. Tarrell Brown has the good and bad days.

We need to sort out the future of Clements - does he move to Safety, restructure his contract, or get released? Behind him, I think the CBs aside from Spencer are weak, and teams will try to exploit that.

We need a big upgrade in the secondary this offseason.

Look guys.

We played the most complete game in years against Jacksonville.

Then we would have played an even better game in Seattle if it wasn't for the self inflicted mistakes.

It had nothing to do with lack of talent, we KILLED ourselves in Seattle.

Let's see how the season finishes.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NC49erfan82:
Draft Eric Berry and move Goldston to SS and I bet it will be a big improvment.

From reports I have read, Berry is not the cover guy the 49ers need. I agree with the concept however.

I've watched a lot of Eric Berry. He IS definitely a great cover guy. He could start at CB FS or SS if you wanted. The guy is Patrick Willis at safety.

Originally posted by Spoonerism:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NC49erfan82:
Draft Eric Berry and move Goldston to SS and I bet it will be a big improvment.

From reports I have read, Berry is not the cover guy the 49ers need. I agree with the concept however.

I've watched a lot of Eric Berry. He IS definitely a great cover guy. He could start at CB FS or SS if you wanted. The guy is Patrick Willis at safety.

yea, i heard Mays was the lousy cover guy.

Originally posted by darkknight49:

Originally posted by Spoonerism:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NC49erfan82:
Draft Eric Berry and move Goldston to SS and I bet it will be a big improvment.

From reports I have read, Berry is not the cover guy the 49ers need. I agree with the concept however.

I've watched a lot of Eric Berry. He IS definitely a great cover guy. He could start at CB FS or SS if you wanted. The guy is Patrick Willis at safety.

yea, i heard Mays was the lousy cover guy.

Yes, Mays is terrible in coverage. He would be better suited at Linebacker in my opinion. But, I have a feeling the Raiders will draft him after he puts up a blazing 40 time. The guy is a text book work out warrior.

It's sad that Berry plays in such a terrible secondary at Tenn. If he didn't he would have so many more picks this year. Hopefully he will fall to us in the draft.

Originally posted by MadMartz:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
The number of sacks is a misleading stat. It's much better to come out with no sacks at all but be on the QB's face constantly than sack the QB 4 or 5 times but not even get close to him the rest of the time.

So I think both the pass rush and the secondary have problems. We do not generate enough pressure and we have some unreliable players back there, including Goldson.

Our corners and their 10 mile cushion has alot to do with us not getting pressure. If the first read is open then the qb throws it before we can get to him. You gotta cover!

I can spell out a big corner cushion in one word: SAFETY.

We need Safety help...bad. Our corners are okay...but as safeties go, we're screwed.

Originally posted by Legbreaker:

Originally posted by MadMartz:

Originally posted by Brazilian49er:
The number of sacks is a misleading stat. It's much better to come out with no sacks at all but be on the QB's face constantly than sack the QB 4 or 5 times but not even get close to him the rest of the time.

So I think both the pass rush and the secondary have problems. We do not generate enough pressure and we have some unreliable players back there, including Goldson.

Our corners and their 10 mile cushion has alot to do with us not getting pressure. If the first read is open then the qb throws it before we can get to him. You gotta cover!

I can spell out a big corner cushion in one word: SAFETY.

We need Safety help...bad. Our corners are okay...but as safeties go, we're screwed.

Amen followed by a Praise the Lord-uh!

Originally posted by MadMartz:
Starting OLB tandems in the 3-4 scheme and their NFL rank in sacks.

Rank #1
4 James Harrison PIT 10.0
11 LaMarr Woodley PIT 8.0
total 18

#2
1 Elvis Demervil- Den 15.0
156 M. Haggan- Den 1.0
total 16

#3
13 Joey Porter MIA 7.0
24 Jason Taylor MIA 6.0
total 13

#4
8 DeMarcus Ware DAL OLB 9.0
111 Anthony Spencer DAL 2.0
total 11

#4
13 Shaun Phillips SD 7.0
55 Shawne Merriman SD 4.0
total 11

#5
13 Clay Matthews GB 7.0
70 Aaron Kampman GB 3.5
total 10.5

#5
19 Kamerion Wimbley CLE 6.5
55 David Bowens CLE 4.0
total 10.5

#6
34 Manny Lawson SF 5.5
48 Parys Haralson SF 4.5
total 10

#7
70 Terrell Suggs BAL 3.5
24 Jarret Johnson BAL 6.0
total 9.5

#8
83 Adalius Thomas NE 3.0
34 Tully Banta-Cain NE 5.5
total 8.5

#9
48 Clark Haggans ARI 4.5
70 Chike Okeafor ARI 3.5
total 8

#10
19 Tamba Hali KC 6.5
195 Mike Vrabel KC 1.0
total 7.5

#11
38 Calvin Pace NYJ 5.0
111 Bryan Thomas NYJ 2.0
total 7


Now we rank in the middle in sacks with our OLBs. We rank tied for 7th in total sacks with 30. So we are generating decent pressure. We also can stop the run as evident by our 5th ranked run defense. So whats the problem?

The problem is the secondary. we are terrible in pass coverage. Look at this for a comparable.

The NYJ rank 21st in sacks with only 24 and they rank dead last in OLB sacks. Yet they are the #1 ranked pass defense in the NFL. Why? because they have Revis and a secondary that shuts teams down. We can get 100 sacks a season but without a solid secondary we will get picked apart consistently.

We need to invest some big money in our secondary or we will get toasted for years to come. I am calling for immediate action in repairing an ageing secondary. I know people think we need another OLB but the numbers show more pressing needs. I can live with Manny and Parys. I cant live with getting shredded in the secondary every week.

COMPLETELY AGREE....WE NEED CLEMENTS BACK, and we are a very good secondary again

Stats are misleading and only tell half the story...our sacks have come in bunches...like six against the Jags. What's missing is consistent pressure...something we haven't done in years. All that's really missing from our secondary is a real ballhawking FS...Goldson's not getting it done.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
Stats are misleading and only tell half the story...our sacks have come in bunches...like six against the Jags. What's missing is consistent pressure...something we haven't done in years. All that's really missing from our secondary is a real ballhawking FS...Goldson's not getting it done.

I think we've gotten pretty decent pressure most of the year...not that we're the 85 Bears or anything, but it's been decent and fairly consistent pressure, especially compared to previous years.

Given that this is Goldson's first full year as a starter, I'd personally wait to pass judgement on his abilities, but I get what you're saying. Still, I think he's got potential and shouldn't be tossed aside so quickly...some guys just need a year or two to develop.

Stats are missleading. The otal number is OK yet the time WHEN and how they occur is the problem.

A standard 4 man rush is totaly useless. We have to blitz to scheme pressure to get sacks.

Watch Jared Allen and the Vikings to see how a real passrush looks like.
A lot of our sacks are coverage sacks.