Alex Smith vs. Drew Brees...

I see your point and I never thought I could look at it that way but hey, Alex has gotten better like you said and he has a while to become great......

The POTENTIAL he is showing doesn't mean squat if he can't get the win. That is the point of the game. It isn't about potential or fun. It is about Winning only. He can pass for 5000 yards a season and it doesn't matter if he only gets a few wins. If Hill could come in and have the same record that he has had with the Niners for the next 20 games, I would take him in a minute over Smiths big yardage and losses. As much as I like Hill, he isn't going to do that. Good as a back up though. The last loss was on everyone. Yes, even Smith. We know the whole team has potential. Hope they come together and all do well in the same game next Monday night. Would love to see the D stop Warner and crew and Alex and the offense really click for the whole game. Was the last meeting, Arizona's not clicking together or the Niners D stopping them? Go Niners.

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i feel like this. Forget with the potential s**t with Smith, because he's showing his skills now.

What would put him in the category with all of them in my opinion is the success of his WR's.

All the QB's Brees, Brady, Manning etc, are stars no doubt, however, i'll say with all three qb's their WR's make them look good maybe about 30 to 40% of the time. Meaning when there is a bad throw (no matter what type), if it's near them they catch it.

So i say if for the remainder of the season, we never have 10 drops, and with the exception of 1 or 2 total for the team, per game, then we'll be well on our way.

Man, 10 drops in one game? Just awful

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by jcs:
No Comparison.

Brees was a probowl calibur QB going into F/A before he switched teams. A.Smith is still trying to prove he deserves a starting job next year at all.

whoa there, pro bowl caliber speller....

Alex Smith hasnt won the QB job yet? really? his last 3 starts hes thrown for 739 yds with 7 TD's and 1 int...

unless you want to see Shaun Hill again, with his 15 yard noodle throws that skip off the ground...

No he hasn't from the perspective of long term. Because you need to be good for a whole season or more to really cement yourself as considered the long term answer. That is what we are looking for, right? The long term answer, and not who is just good enough until they find someone better. But if he keeps playing as good as he is, that will at least eliminate any controversy headinginto next year if they should look for another guy.

Now I don't think it is going to happen based upon how he is playing lately, but if he choked miserabely for the rest of the games, they would be back to square one looking for another player to compete for starting job. I would at least if it was my team. You can't keep wishing & hoping instead of contingency planning if you want to win.

Originally posted by Method:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i feel like this. Forget with the potential s**t with Smith, because he's showing his skills now.

What would put him in the category with all of them in my opinion is the success of his WR's.

All the QB's Brees, Brady, Manning etc, are stars no doubt, however, i'll say with all three qb's their WR's make them look good maybe about 30 to 40% of the time. Meaning when there is a bad throw (no matter what type), if it's near them they catch it.

So i say if for the remainder of the season, we never have 10 drops, and with the exception of 1 or 2 total for the team, per game, then we'll be well on our way.

Man, 10 drops in one game? Just awful

I don't think Brady was putting up amazing numbers before Randy Moss showed up. Brady would get the wins pre-Moss but he wasn't lighting it up.

Our WRs are still very very young. They will get more consistent.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Method:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i feel like this. Forget with the potential s**t with Smith, because he's showing his skills now.

What would put him in the category with all of them in my opinion is the success of his WR's.

All the QB's Brees, Brady, Manning etc, are stars no doubt, however, i'll say with all three qb's their WR's make them look good maybe about 30 to 40% of the time. Meaning when there is a bad throw (no matter what type), if it's near them they catch it.

So i say if for the remainder of the season, we never have 10 drops, and with the exception of 1 or 2 total for the team, per game, then we'll be well on our way.

Man, 10 drops in one game? Just awful

I don't think Brady was putting up amazing numbers before Randy Moss showed up. Brady would get the wins pre-Moss but he wasn't lighting it up.

Our WRs are still very very young. They will get more consistent.

They've always had a top 5 defense in that period though. Look what happens now, they have been lighting it up on offense but their defense is just as bad as ours.

Originally posted by Steve:
You can't compare them in any way. Smith has not been successful yet. May be coming. Hope so. Success is based on wins. No others stats matter if they mostly end up as losses. I think Smith needs all of next year to prove what he can or can't do. Anything less than 10 wins and he should be gone. He has definitely had plenty of chances. This should be the last one and how the story ends is up to him. Don't know if he can do it. He deserves the chance and hope he does outstanding. Would love to see a winning season. If not, then the team needs to move on. The time is now for Alex to prove he is an NFL starting QB.

I feel *self-censored* after reading this post. So you are saying that if he scores 20+ points a game, and rarely turns the ball over, the losses are his fault?

[ Edited by fryet on Dec 10, 2009 at 17:33:33 ]

Marvin49,

You may think I'm unconvincible but here's the history on Drew Brees and besides the shoulder injury, it has zero similarity to Alex Smith's path.

Brees beat out Flutie IN CAMP unlike Alex Smith. Doug Flutie >>>>> Hill or JTO or Rattay.

You may be correct about the stats, but their paths are entirely different. LT was a rookie when Brees was a rookie and Gore lit up the league similar to LT in Smith's second year, so no excuses about the fact that LT carried the load.

Brees History:
2001 NFL Draft
Brees was selected by the San Diego Chargers with the first pick of the second round in 2001. While Brees was a senior at Purdue, he and LaDainian Tomlinson, then a running back for Texas Christian University, joked at a Heisman awards ceremony about how it would be great if they could be on the same team, because they attended nearby high schools in Texas and even played with each other in a league all star game. With the 2001 draft, they did end up on the same team.[1]

Early career
Brees played in his first career game on November 4, 2001 against the Kansas City Chiefs. He won the starting job over Doug Flutie during training camp before the start of the 2002 season, but was later replaced during the 2003 season by Flutie.

Comeback
Brees' career with the Chargers was put in jeopardy after San Diego acquired NC State's Philip Rivers. After the trade, it was almost certain Brees' days as the Chargers' starting QB were over. However, Rivers held out nearly all of training camp. This forced the Chargers coaching staff to give Brees one last look and he remained the starter throughout the 2004 season. Brees was selected to the 2005 NFL Pro Bowl following an impressive 2004 season. He was named 2004 NFL Comeback Player of the Year.
Brees became a free agent after the season and was not expected to return to San Diego, which had already committed a large sum of money to Rivers. The team eventually designated Brees a franchise player, giving him a one-year contract that quadrupled his pay to $8 million for 2005.
Under the terms of the franchise player contract, Brees was eligible to be traded or sign with another team, but the Chargers would have had to receive two future first round draft choices in return. He was not traded and continued to start the remainder of the 2005 season.
Brees continued his productive play in 2005, as he posted a career high in passing yards with 3,576. Brees also posted an 89.2 rating, which was the 10th best in the NFL.

Shoulder injury
In the last game of the 2005 season against the Denver Broncos, Brees injured his shoulder while trying to pick up his fumble after being hit by Denver Broncos safety John Lynch. Denver tackle Gerard Warren hit Brees while he was on the ground, causing the injury. Brees underwent arthroscopic surgery to repair the torn labrum in his right (throwing) shoulder on January 5, 2006. Subsequent reports mention additional rotator cuff damage.
Brees was selected as first alternate to the AFC Pro Bowl team in 2006. He would have played in his second consecutive Pro Bowl due to the injury to starter Carson Palmer, but his own injury dictated that the AFC Pro Bowl roster would have to be filled by second alternate Jake Plummer.
After the season, the Chargers offered Brees a 5-year, $50 million contract that paid $2 million in base salary the first year and the rest heavily based on performance incentives. Brees took the incentive-based offer as a sign of no confidence by the Chargers and promptly demanded the type of money a top 5 "franchise" quarterback would receive.


New Orleans Saints
Brees warming up in Wembley Stadium in a game against the San Diego Chargers
After the Chargers refused to increase their offer, Brees met with other teams. The New Orleans Saints and the Miami Dolphins were interested. New Orleans made an offer that included $10 million in guaranteed money the first year and a $12 million option the second year. Miami asked Brees if he would be willing to take less guaranteed money so they could fit him under their salary cap, but Brees refused. The Dolphins ended negotiations and traded for Minnesota Vikings QB Daunte Culpepper instead. Brees signed a 6-year, $60 million deal with the Saints on March 14, 2006.

Originally posted by Method:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Method:

Originally posted by Jersey9er:
Well i feel like this. Forget with the potential s**t with Smith, because he's showing his skills now.

What would put him in the category with all of them in my opinion is the success of his WR's.

All the QB's Brees, Brady, Manning etc, are stars no doubt, however, i'll say with all three qb's their WR's make them look good maybe about 30 to 40% of the time. Meaning when there is a bad throw (no matter what type), if it's near them they catch it.

So i say if for the remainder of the season, we never have 10 drops, and with the exception of 1 or 2 total for the team, per game, then we'll be well on our way.

Man, 10 drops in one game? Just awful

I don't think Brady was putting up amazing numbers before Randy Moss showed up. Brady would get the wins pre-Moss but he wasn't lighting it up.

Our WRs are still very very young. They will get more consistent.

They've always had a top 5 defense in that period though. Look what happens now, they have been lighting it up on offense but their defense is just as bad as ours.

I think Alex will light it up even more once Crabtree gets settled in. VD is what he is and he's been in the NFL long enough to show that he will not improve his drops. Crabtree WILL be our go-to guy over VD and VD will just bust teams from the attention that will be given to Crabs.

Morgan is the HUGE question mark because next year will be his settling down year and be pretty much what he will be for his career. Is he a sure catch guy or an occasional drops guy?

Either way, with Crabtree becoming the go-to guy and settling in, I think Alex will bust things wide open.

Our defense is good but just a little inconsistent, but then again, I do think most of the TEN game and the SEA game was not the defense's loss more than it was our offense who missed too many opportunities.

We'll be fine and once we get our 2nd string linemen back let alone our starting OL, we will be even better.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Marvin49,

You may think I'm unconvincible but here's the history on Drew Brees and besides the shoulder injury, it has zero similarity to Alex Smith's path.

Brees beat out Flutie IN CAMP unlike Alex Smith. Doug Flutie >>>>> Hill or JTO or Rattay.

You may be correct about the stats, but their paths are entirely different. LT was a rookie when Brees was a rookie and Gore lit up the league similar to LT in Smith's second year, so no excuses about the fact that LT carried the load.

Brees History:
2001 NFL Draft
Brees was selected by the San Diego Chargers with the first pick of the second round in 2001. While Brees was a senior at Purdue, he and LaDainian Tomlinson, then a running back for Texas Christian University, joked at a Heisman awards ceremony about how it would be great if they could be on the same team, because they attended nearby high schools in Texas and even played with each other in a league all star game. With the 2001 draft, they did end up on the same team.[1]

Early career
Brees played in his first career game on November 4, 2001 against the Kansas City Chiefs. He won the starting job over Doug Flutie during training camp before the start of the 2002 season, but was later replaced during the 2003 season by Flutie.

Comeback
Brees' career with the Chargers was put in jeopardy after San Diego acquired NC State's Philip Rivers. After the trade, it was almost certain Brees' days as the Chargers' starting QB were over. However, Rivers held out nearly all of training camp. This forced the Chargers coaching staff to give Brees one last look and he remained the starter throughout the 2004 season. Brees was selected to the 2005 NFL Pro Bowl following an impressive 2004 season. He was named 2004 NFL Comeback Player of the Year.
Brees became a free agent after the season and was not expected to return to San Diego, which had already committed a large sum of money to Rivers. The team eventually designated Brees a franchise player, giving him a one-year contract that quadrupled his pay to $8 million for 2005.
Under the terms of the franchise player contract, Brees was eligible to be traded or sign with another team, but the Chargers would have had to receive two future first round draft choices in return. He was not traded and continued to start the remainder of the 2005 season.
Brees continued his productive play in 2005, as he posted a career high in passing yards with 3,576. Brees also posted an 89.2 rating, which was the 10th best in the NFL.

Shoulder injury
In the last game of the 2005 season against the Denver Broncos, Brees injured his shoulder while trying to pick up his fumble after being hit by Denver Broncos safety John Lynch. Denver tackle Gerard Warren hit Brees while he was on the ground, causing the injury. Brees underwent arthroscopic surgery to repair the torn labrum in his right (throwing) shoulder on January 5, 2006. Subsequent reports mention additional rotator cuff damage.
Brees was selected as first alternate to the AFC Pro Bowl team in 2006. He would have played in his second consecutive Pro Bowl due to the injury to starter Carson Palmer, but his own injury dictated that the AFC Pro Bowl roster would have to be filled by second alternate Jake Plummer.
After the season, the Chargers offered Brees a 5-year, $50 million contract that paid $2 million in base salary the first year and the rest heavily based on performance incentives. Brees took the incentive-based offer as a sign of no confidence by the Chargers and promptly demanded the type of money a top 5 "franchise" quarterback would receive.


New Orleans Saints
Brees warming up in Wembley Stadium in a game against the San Diego Chargers
After the Chargers refused to increase their offer, Brees met with other teams. The New Orleans Saints and the Miami Dolphins were interested. New Orleans made an offer that included $10 million in guaranteed money the first year and a $12 million option the second year. Miami asked Brees if he would be willing to take less guaranteed money so they could fit him under their salary cap, but Brees refused. The Dolphins ended negotiations and traded for Minnesota Vikings QB Daunte Culpepper instead. Brees signed a 6-year, $60 million deal with the Saints on March 14, 2006.

I do agree that their career paths arent mirror images, but nobody is saying that they are on the same exact path. I think what people are saying, and hoping, is that Alex Smith will end up like Brees. Everyone, including the Chargers, thought Brees was done so they drafted Rivers. Brees ended up lighting it up and making Rivers sit. People thought Smith was done, and they fully expected Hill to carry the load or hand the reigns over to Nate Davis. Smith ends up taking the job and has looked really good so that the other two are really a non-factor right now.

If he continues to improve I think Smith can be a REALLY good QB. Not necessarily Brees good, but definitely good enough where this team wont have to find a QB for a while.

Doug Flutie is was not great. He was like 5'6" 150 lbs. They were looking to replace him as soon as they could. LOL.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:


Doug Flutie is was not great. He was like 5'6" 150 lbs. They were looking to replace him as soon as they could. LOL.

Who said he was great?

I mean, we're talking about Rattay, JTO, and Hill who all beat out Smith whereas Brees beat out Flutie. Flutie compared to those 3...come on...

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:


Doug Flutie is was not great. He was like 5'6" 150 lbs. They were looking to replace him as soon as they could. LOL.

Who said he was great?

I mean, we're talking about Rattay, JTO, and Hill who all beat out Smith whereas Brees beat out Flutie. Flutie compared to those 3...come on...

He was complete garbage and they were looking for a different starter. You don't follow your Chargers history very much do you?

only time will tell....

but I Believe in Alex Smith!

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:


Doug Flutie is was not great. He was like 5'6" 150 lbs. They were looking to replace him as soon as they could. LOL.

Who said he was great?

I mean, we're talking about Rattay, JTO, and Hill who all beat out Smith whereas Brees beat out Flutie. Flutie compared to those 3...come on...

He was complete garbage and they were looking for a different starter. You don't follow your Chargers history very much do you?

So what's your point? I'm comparing him to JTO, Hill, and Rattay which you keep trying to avoid.