VD still has stone hands

WRONG!

Originally posted by Ceadderman:
Actually Davis doesn't drop many Passes. He has the occasional miss a game but if you look at the overall picture, instead of focusing on the occasional; you will see that it's a chemistry issue for the most part. No Pass comes out of Troy's hand the same way twice. Receivers are best when they don't have to come off their feet to make the completion. Troy has them up in the air more often than not.

Now this is not me making an issue of the QB. It's just pointing out that he's still young and has a ways to go. Hell he and Ginn probably have the best chemistry going back to their days at the OSU, and even Ginn has trouble getting the completion. That Sideline toss was too high for most Receivers. Ginn stuck with it but the momentum was against him.

But seriously, I don't get the idea that the Stone hands have returned. Davis is our most consistent Receiver on the field. If he tips a ball it's not likely to end up in the hands of a Defender the way a Tree tipped Pass does. Unfortunately he only has so many looks from Troy so when he does have a drop it's noticeable.

I say he gets maybe 3 looks a game from Troy. Someone stated that it's 6. So let's say he gets 3 to 6 looks a game. He averages 1.3 drops a game. That's not bad when you stop to consider that his grabs are generally big.

I could see this thread about Morgan and Tree. Not Davis. That's jmho on this subject since Ginn doesn't see many Passes to get called out for anything.

I really and truly hope that if nothing else happens to the coaching staff going into next season, that Sullivan is escorted off the premises at shotgun point. I could do a better job than that guy. None of our Receivers run good routes. Even slow Receivers can get separation when they run solid routes and put in the effort to run their routes cleanly. When they get jammed they make up for it with crisp footwork. Jerry was not the fastest guy on the field at the snap but his routes were crisp and when he had the ball he knew where to run to take the angle away from the Defenders. Not one of our Receivers has this awareness or if they do they don't know where to run when being pursued. Hell even Frank is bad in this. When he has one guy to beat and a blocker in front of him he tries to bounce to the outside but then ultimately runs right back to his blocker. Instead he should cross up that guy and leave him hung up with the blocker. He would get more yardage this way and probably score from longer distances as well. This is obviously not Sully's fault where Gore is concerned, but it's a footwork issue and it should be taught to all our Offensive personnel. I'm tired of seeing our guys take inferior paths to the end zone.

~Ceadder

I could not have said it any better!

Originally posted by backontop:

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by susweel:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:
It's time to trade Vernon (for nothing less than a starter or first round pick).

1. He'll never have more value
2. He leads the league in drops.
3. Alex Smith is inconsisent. We can't afford to have our leading receiver inconsistent as well.
4. Vernon has no 'football" sense. Did you see the way he pulled back from that deep interception Sunday? He didn't change his route, become a defender, or even try to tackler in defensive player. In fact, Vernon got out of his way. TV commentator said he'll learn how to run and catch inside (by rubbing off referees, etc.) He hasn't learned in his four years. He too often has his head turned to the pass, not realizing he is the hot receiver.
5. Delanie Walker can do nearly all VD can except he'll catch more balls.

I agree with you, if the right compensation was presented I would trade him. Yes he has made some plays and has scored a lot of TDs this year. But the TE has to have great hands and now how to find open spaces in the defenses. Its not about being the fastest guy.

If we could get a pro bowl caliber OL, S, CB or pass rusher I would trade VD in a heartbeat.

That's what I'm saying. This off season, VD will not be seen as damaged goods. Other teams will see only his TDs and highlights. Not his lowlights.

With a good to great defense, the Niners need a dependable and consistent offense. Consistent in drive to drive and game to game. The tight end needs to help make the third down plays. How many did we miss Sunday?

All the holes this team is showing and you want to trade our best playmaker in the passing game.

if susweel had his way we would trade away Gore, Willis, VD, Crabtree, Clements, J. Smith and any other player we have that he considers has "trade value"

If you look at the date when this thread its clearly from last year. Since then I have changed my mind on VD, he has developed into a top level player through hard work. He's one of the best TE's in the game right now, with a legit QB he could put up some serious numbers.

With that said I would still trade him or anybody else on the team if it made the team better.

Um......he's dropped what, ONE pass this season and made some of the best catches I've ever seen from a TE (the one against the Rams that was called back, the one for a 20+ yard gain against the Pack).

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Um......he's dropped what, ONE pass this season and made some of the best catches I've ever seen from a TE (the one against the Rams that was called back, the one for a 20+ yard gain against the Pack).

I agree. One bad play compared to his whole season. Plus, he's been having to fight through all the extra attention he's receiving from opposing D's. I think he's had a pretty good year!

Yeah... Vernon Davis has had problems with drops in the past. The guy has obviously worked on his hands and has made a couple spectacular catches this season. Obviously the one on the TD that was called back against the Rams... and this one to basically save Troy Smith's ass yesterday:

Not only displaying good hands, but great leaping ability, body control, strength, and balance to land and get yards after the catch.

I agree that he used to have "stone hands". The term means that his hands aren't soft and balls bounce off of them. He does not have "stone hands" at all anymore... at least that I've seen. The dropped pass yesterday had nothing to do with "stone hands". He still should have caught it, though. No excuse for dropping that.

Still, drops happen sometimes. Even to receivers who are known to have great hands. I wouldn't put Davis in that category, but I can't recall him having any (outside NFL average) problems with drops of any kind this season. Anybody got statistics on this? I can't find any.

Originally posted by susweel:



If you look at the date when this thread its clearly from last year. Since then I have changed my mind on VD, he has developed into a top level player through hard work. He's one of the best TE's in the game right now, with a legit QB he could put up some serious numbers.

With that said I would still trade him or anybody else on the team if it made the team better.

My bad, susweel. I wasn't calling you out or anything in my posts, but I didn't notice this either. I hate when an old thread gets bumped like this... always causes confusion. You should be given tons of credit for being objective and seeing change when it happens. Much respect.

As for the trade thing, obviously I'd agree because all we want as fans is for the team to be better. Hard to see a realistic scenario for many player trades making us better, but I get your point and people should drop it.

Originally posted by boast:
lol.

You instigator.

Originally posted by ozanter:
wasting VD's career like we wasted franks

even worse we're wasting your career as a poster on this board. so many insightful comments. if only they were made as a fan of a contending team

Originally posted by Wodwo:

Originally posted by susweel:



If you look at the date when this thread its clearly from last year. Since then I have changed my mind on VD, he has developed into a top level player through hard work. He's one of the best TE's in the game right now, with a legit QB he could put up some serious numbers.

With that said I would still trade him or anybody else on the team if it made the team better.

My bad, susweel. I wasn't calling you out or anything in my posts, but I didn't notice this either. I hate when an old thread gets bumped like this... always causes confusion. You should be given tons of credit for being objective and seeing change when it happens. Much respect.

As for the trade thing, obviously I'd agree because all we want as fans is for the team to be better. Hard to see a realistic scenario for many player trades making us better, but I get your point and people should drop it.

Thanks man


Mods should lock this thread because its not true anymore.

Originally posted by VaBeachNiner:
Oh look a thread not blaming Gore.

We better hide this one from all the Gore-haters...