Alex Smith Bandwagon

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

I've been on board since Day 1!

For Real? You mean during his first start when he had 9 completions for 23 attempts 74 yards and 4 ints? 8.51 QB rating?

A game when even Kevin Barlow ran for 99 yards against the Colts D while averaging 5.5 yards a carry to take some of the pressure off. Day 1 for real?

I'd understand based on the 2nd season, but Day 1?

You'd think that horrible 1st start would be so significant to Smith, that he would have recognized the symbolism of making his first start against the very same team. It should have shown what kind of competitor he is. If he'd played with passion and would have improvised and pulled out a win, it would have been poetic, heroic and redemptive. At last, none of these qualities apply to Alex Smith.

If he couldn't get fired up for himself, how could he lead a team to a championship?

Yeah Alex Smith was the only reason we lost that game, how dare he not beat Peyton Manning and the #2 offense and #2 ranked defense in his first NFL start. Every time you post some ridiculous crap like this you only hurt your own credibility. I mean I guess since Joe Montana never got fired up he never could lead a team to a Superbowl, but wait...he did it four times.

Also, game was played in Indy. Unbelievable that Smith (not the Niners but Smith alone) could not beat a team that made a run at an undefeated season and made it into the Super Bowl in their own house. Pitiful.

The rest of the team played well, Smith didn't. And an opposing team's record and accomplishments doesn't justify not competing and losing them. That's a loser mentality.

do you know how many games troy aikman won his rookie year? he seemed to turn out all right since his cowboys punked us for a few superbowls in the 90s and he ended up in the hall of fame

Stop comparing Smith to Hall of Famers he hasn't earned that right. He's not even in the class of Pro Bowl flash in the pans like Trent Green and Jeff Garcia.

Troy Aikman won 0 games his first season. He on 7 the next, 11 and Pro Bowl his third, SB his fourth.

Alex Smith is becoming vocal in his 6th season and still hasn't been to the playoffs.

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
do you know how many games troy aikman won his rookie year? he seemed to turn out all right since his cowboys punked us for a few superbowls in the 90s and he ended up in the hall of fame

Stop comparing Smith to Hall of Famers he hasn't earned that right. He's not even in the class of Pro Bowl flash in the pans like Trent Green and Jeff Garcia.

Troy Aikman won 0 games his first season. He on 7 the next, 11 and Pro Bowl his third, SB his fourth.

Alex Smith is becoming vocal in his 6th season and still hasn't been to the playoffs.

You missed the point.

His comparison to Aikman is not to show that Smith will turn out to be like Aikman. The comparison is to show that simply looking at a player's rookie year can be deceiving.

For the record, I've supported Smith since the day that he was drafted and after his rookie year as well. Why? Because he had nowhere else to go but up. Nobody is going to argue with you that he had a bad rookie year. He did, it was abysmal. That team had more problems than just QB.

But if you're expectation was for Smith to beat the Colts in his first professional start or to lead the team to the playoffs in 2006, then you were a victim of your own lofty expectations.

-9fA

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

I've been on board since Day 1!

For Real? You mean during his first start when he had 9 completions for 23 attempts 74 yards and 4 ints? 8.51 QB rating?

A game when even Kevin Barlow ran for 99 yards against the Colts D while averaging 5.5 yards a carry to take some of the pressure off. Day 1 for real?

I'd understand based on the 2nd season, but Day 1?

You'd think that horrible 1st start would be so significant to Smith, that he would have recognized the symbolism of making his first start against the very same team. It should have shown what kind of competitor he is. If he'd played with passion and would have improvised and pulled out a win, it would have been poetic, heroic and redemptive. At last, none of these qualities apply to Alex Smith.

If he couldn't get fired up for himself, how could he lead a team to a championship?

Yeah Alex Smith was the only reason we lost that game, how dare he not beat Peyton Manning and the #2 offense and #2 ranked defense in his first NFL start. Every time you post some ridiculous crap like this you only hurt your own credibility. I mean I guess since Joe Montana never got fired up he never could lead a team to a Superbowl, but wait...he did it four times.

Also, game was played in Indy. Unbelievable that Smith (not the Niners but Smith alone) could not beat a team that made a run at an undefeated season and made it into the Super Bowl in their own house. Pitiful.

foreal, f**kin choker!!! our rookie QB in his first game, on one of the most historically bad niner teams ever, against the greatest team in the league. foaming is a joke. get real dude. and i was a fan of smiths since the day we drafted him, i wanted us to take him and im glad we did. people who think aaron rodgers wouldve been as good as he is had we taken him and started him right away are full of s**t. no QB could grow in that environment. smith is finally getting the kind of grooming a young QB needs to succeed in his 5th year. luckily for us he was drafted super young and we dont have an old rookie qb in essence. thats the main reason they stuck with him i think. he showed flashes despite his horrible surroundings, injuries and coaching blunders and is still young enough to have a long career as our starter. we will win atleast one superbowl with smith at the helm, book it.

That was the worse debut by a #1 QB ever.

As for Aaron Rodgers, he would have had a more successful debut. Coming out of college he already knew how to drop back from under center and read defenses. He played extremely well against USC's pro scheme defenses, completing 23 passes in a row.

Smith was a gimmick system quarterback, who fit into McCloughan's rigid believes about going with the taller player (Smith 6'4 to Rodgers 6'2).

As for the obstacles Smith has endured, it can be argued that Jason Campbell and Vince Young have been in similar circumstances and have excelled where Smith has failed.

Regardless, if Smith was a instinctual athlete and innate leader he would have taken the 06' team to the playoffs. Michael Vick led teams deep into the playoffs with lesser talented squads.

As for grooming, he was coached by Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, and Mike Martz. All successful coaches and OCs. If Smith is suppose to be uber intelligent, why couldn't he have picked up their systems quickly? There lies the contradiction, he's not an instinctual athlete or master of his craft. His career speaks for itself, prove to me otherwise.

ya, and smith had a ridiculous record in college too. he was a heisman finalist, had a ridiculous TD-INT ratio and yadda yadda yadda. they we both good college qbs. rodgers sat and learned behind the legendary bret favre for 3 years before he took over one of the most high powered offenses in the league. smith inherited a s**tty, s**tty team. smith played a spread in college. manning, brady and brees play spreads in the pros. dont blame smiths offense in college, he was damn good at it and thats the way we should play on offense anyway. build to your players strengths not the other way around like nolan tried to do.

really? cambell and vince had a 3rd degree shoulder separation? an injury that could easily end a QBs career. then he came back and wasnt healthy because our s**tty medical staff cleared him for some retarded reason and our f**king moron of a coach undermined him in front of his teamates and called him a puss for having his shoulder almost ripped off. vince had a break down because he couldnt take the pressure and cambell switched OC's , something smith also did every year. you say smith had all these gurus, ok they were good, but none of their systems are even remotely similar. McCarthy is a WCO guy, Turner is Coryell, Martz is completely unique and hostler was a joke. and besides that cambell and vince atleast had the support of their coaches, smith was thrown under the bus so nolan could cover his own ass.

as far as 06 goes atlanta did it all on the ground, they had the 32nd rated pass offense!!! smith had a better statistical season than your hero mike vick if you wanna look that up, im not gonna spoon feed you. mike vick went deep into the playoffs because they had the leagues best rushing offense, not because anyone was scared of their league worst passing offense. if your gonna make retarded claims you better go somewhere else because your "facts" are getting ripped to shreds. your gonna come back and try to argue against my facts and i dont care, not wasting anymore time on you. ALEX SMITH BANDWAGON!!! im sure the rest of your troll colony has a thread of their own on here. i suggest you find it.

http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team?stat=passing&year=2006

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
do you know how many games troy aikman won his rookie year? he seemed to turn out all right since his cowboys punked us for a few superbowls in the 90s and he ended up in the hall of fame

Stop comparing Smith to Hall of Famers he hasn't earned that right. He's not even in the class of Pro Bowl flash in the pans like Trent Green and Jeff Garcia.

Troy Aikman won 0 games his first season. He on 7 the next, 11 and Pro Bowl his third, SB his fourth.

Alex Smith is becoming vocal in his 6th season and still hasn't been to the playoffs.

You missed the point.

His comparison to Aikman is not to show that Smith will turn out to be like Aikman. The comparison is to show that simply looking at a player's rookie year can be deceiving.

For the record, I've supported Smith since the day that he was drafted and after his rookie year as well. Why? Because he had nowhere else to go but up. Nobody is going to argue with you that he had a bad rookie year. He did, it was abysmal. That team had more problems than just QB.

But if you're expectation was for Smith to beat the Colts in his first professional start or to lead the team to the playoffs in 2006, then you were a victim of your own lofty expectations.

-9fA

Get the idiom correct, it's a failure to live up to lofty expectations and victim of low expectations. In this case, your low expectations make it acceptable that Alex Smith be developed as project QB even though he's the #1 overall player in the draft, and as a result is expected to produce right away. Either that year or the next.

I use the 06' team as a direct comparison with the equally mediocre 02' Falcon team led by a 2nd year Micheal Vick.

The O line on that team featured only 1 Pro Bowl caliber player in Bob Whitfield, an undersized lead RB in Warren Dunn, no true #1 reciever and an ok defense.

The Niners Oline had two Pro Bowlers in Larry Allen and Justin Smiley, Frank Gore (1,695 yards), Antonio Bryant and a decent defense.

Now Vick made up for the lack of talent around him and is inability to read defenses with his natural ability to lead his team not only to the playoffs, but an unprecedented road win in GB.

Alex Smith, on the other hand had the better OC , executed Norv Turners game plan and won a few games but couldn't provide a park of his own to lead the team to the playoffs by beating mediocre division rivals Cards, Rams, or a GB at home to ensure a playoff birth.

This was before the revolving GM door, before the injuries and undermining coach. He just was mediocre where his peer was exceptional in an identical situation.

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

I've been on board since Day 1!

For Real? You mean during his first start when he had 9 completions for 23 attempts 74 yards and 4 ints? 8.51 QB rating?

A game when even Kevin Barlow ran for 99 yards against the Colts D while averaging 5.5 yards a carry to take some of the pressure off. Day 1 for real?

I'd understand based on the 2nd season, but Day 1?

You'd think that horrible 1st start would be so significant to Smith, that he would have recognized the symbolism of making his first start against the very same team. It should have shown what kind of competitor he is. If he'd played with passion and would have improvised and pulled out a win, it would have been poetic, heroic and redemptive. At last, none of these qualities apply to Alex Smith.

If he couldn't get fired up for himself, how could he lead a team to a championship?

Yeah Alex Smith was the only reason we lost that game, how dare he not beat Peyton Manning and the #2 offense and #2 ranked defense in his first NFL start. Every time you post some ridiculous crap like this you only hurt your own credibility. I mean I guess since Joe Montana never got fired up he never could lead a team to a Superbowl, but wait...he did it four times.

Also, game was played in Indy. Unbelievable that Smith (not the Niners but Smith alone) could not beat a team that made a run at an undefeated season and made it into the Super Bowl in their own house. Pitiful.

foreal, f**kin choker!!! our rookie QB in his first game, on one of the most historically bad niner teams ever, against the greatest team in the league. foaming is a joke. get real dude. and i was a fan of smiths since the day we drafted him, i wanted us to take him and im glad we did. people who think aaron rodgers wouldve been as good as he is had we taken him and started him right away are full of s**t. no QB could grow in that environment. smith is finally getting the kind of grooming a young QB needs to succeed in his 5th year. luckily for us he was drafted super young and we dont have an old rookie qb in essence. thats the main reason they stuck with him i think. he showed flashes despite his horrible surroundings, injuries and coaching blunders and is still young enough to have a long career as our starter. we will win atleast one superbowl with smith at the helm, book it.

That was the worse debut by a #1 QB ever.

As for Aaron Rodgers, he would have had a more successful debut. Coming out of college he already knew how to drop back from under center and read defenses. He played extremely well against USC's pro scheme defenses, completing 23 passes in a row.

Smith was a gimmick system quarterback, who fit into McCloughan's rigid believes about going with the taller player (Smith 6'4 to Rodgers 6'2).

As for the obstacles Smith has endured, it can be argued that Jason Campbell and Vince Young have been in similar circumstances and have excelled where Smith has failed.

Regardless, if Smith was a instinctual athlete and innate leader he would have taken the 06' team to the playoffs. Michael Vick led teams deep into the playoffs with lesser talented squads.

As for grooming, he was coached by Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, and Mike Martz. All successful coaches and OCs. If Smith is suppose to be uber intelligent, why couldn't he have picked up their systems quickly? There lies the contradiction, he's not an instinctual athlete or master of his craft. His career speaks for itself, prove to me otherwise.

ya, and smith had a ridiculous record in college too. he was a heisman finalist, had a ridiculous TD-INT ratio and yadda yadda yadda. they we both good college qbs. rodgers sat and learned behind the legendary bret favre for 3 years before he took over one of the most high powered offenses in the league. smith inherited a s**tty, s**tty team. smith played a spread in college. manning, brady and brees play spreads in the pros. dont blame smiths offense in college, he was damn good at it and thats the way we should play on offense anyway. build to your players strengths not the other way around like nolan tried to do.

really? cambell and vince had a 3rd degree shoulder separation? an injury that could easily end a QBs career. then he came back and wasnt healthy because our s**tty medical staff cleared him for some retarded reason and our f**king moron of a coach undermined him in front of his teamates and called him a puss for having his shoulder almost ripped off. vince had a break down because he couldnt take the pressure and cambell switched OC's , something smith also did every year. you say smith had all these gurus, ok they were good, but none of their systems are even remotely similar. McCarthy is a WCO guy, Turner is Coryell, Martz is completely unique and hostler was a joke. and besides that cambell and vince atleast had the support of their coaches, smith was thrown under the bus so nolan could cover his own ass.

as far as 06 goes atlanta did it all on the ground, they had the 32nd rated pass offense!!! smith had a better statistical season than your hero mike vick if you wanna look that up, im not gonna spoon feed you. mike vick went deep into the playoffs because they had the leagues best rushing offense, not because anyone was scared of their league worst passing offense. if your gonna make retarded claims you better go somewhere else because your "facts" are getting ripped to shreds. your gonna come back and try to argue against my facts and i dont care, not wasting anymore time on you. ALEX SMITH BANDWAGON!!! im sure the rest of your troll colony has a thread of their own on here. i suggest you find it.

http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team?stat=passing&year=2006

Ya know I was comparing Michael Vick in his 2nd yr vs Alex Smith's 2nd yr. So that's the 02' Falcons vs 06' Niners same talent level in regards to teams. And Vick posted a 81.6 QB rating. I believe this Bandwagon is all revved up because Smith posted an 81.5 QB rating.

As for the Falcons leading the league in rushing, well yes they won by catering to Vick's talent. The Niners haven't road Alex's talent to the playoffs the main reason he has detractors.

Vick went from Dan Reeves stone age offense to the WCO and didn't miss a beat. Campbell had 4 difference OCs in college the Coryell system, WCO, and another system in the pros.

What even ailed Vince Young he not only rebounded to save his teams season but became a better pocket passer as well. He as already led is team to the playoffs and earned a Pro Bowl.

Aaron Rodgers success in college translated to success in the pros. The same can't be said for Smith. I'm waiting to hear what Alex Smith has accomplished and not reasons why he has failed.

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

I've been on board since Day 1!

For Real? You mean during his first start when he had 9 completions for 23 attempts 74 yards and 4 ints? 8.51 QB rating?

A game when even Kevin Barlow ran for 99 yards against the Colts D while averaging 5.5 yards a carry to take some of the pressure off. Day 1 for real?

I'd understand based on the 2nd season, but Day 1?

You'd think that horrible 1st start would be so significant to Smith, that he would have recognized the symbolism of making his first start against the very same team. It should have shown what kind of competitor he is. If he'd played with passion and would have improvised and pulled out a win, it would have been poetic, heroic and redemptive. At last, none of these qualities apply to Alex Smith.

If he couldn't get fired up for himself, how could he lead a team to a championship?

Yeah Alex Smith was the only reason we lost that game, how dare he not beat Peyton Manning and the #2 offense and #2 ranked defense in his first NFL start. Every time you post some ridiculous crap like this you only hurt your own credibility. I mean I guess since Joe Montana never got fired up he never could lead a team to a Superbowl, but wait...he did it four times.

Also, game was played in Indy. Unbelievable that Smith (not the Niners but Smith alone) could not beat a team that made a run at an undefeated season and made it into the Super Bowl in their own house. Pitiful.

foreal, f**kin choker!!! our rookie QB in his first game, on one of the most historically bad niner teams ever, against the greatest team in the league. foaming is a joke. get real dude. and i was a fan of smiths since the day we drafted him, i wanted us to take him and im glad we did. people who think aaron rodgers wouldve been as good as he is had we taken him and started him right away are full of s**t. no QB could grow in that environment. smith is finally getting the kind of grooming a young QB needs to succeed in his 5th year. luckily for us he was drafted super young and we dont have an old rookie qb in essence. thats the main reason they stuck with him i think. he showed flashes despite his horrible surroundings, injuries and coaching blunders and is still young enough to have a long career as our starter. we will win atleast one superbowl with smith at the helm, book it.

That was the worse debut by a #1 QB ever.

As for Aaron Rodgers, he would have had a more successful debut. Coming out of college he already knew how to drop back from under center and read defenses. He played extremely well against USC's pro scheme defenses, completing 23 passes in a row.

Smith was a gimmick system quarterback, who fit into McCloughan's rigid believes about going with the taller player (Smith 6'4 to Rodgers 6'2).

As for the obstacles Smith has endured, it can be argued that Jason Campbell and Vince Young have been in similar circumstances and have excelled where Smith has failed.

Regardless, if Smith was a instinctual athlete and innate leader he would have taken the 06' team to the playoffs. Michael Vick led teams deep into the playoffs with lesser talented squads.

As for grooming, he was coached by Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, and Mike Martz. All successful coaches and OCs. If Smith is suppose to be uber intelligent, why couldn't he have picked up their systems quickly? There lies the contradiction, he's not an instinctual athlete or master of his craft. His career speaks for itself, prove to me otherwise.

ya, and smith had a ridiculous record in college too. he was a heisman finalist, had a ridiculous TD-INT ratio and yadda yadda yadda. they we both good college qbs. rodgers sat and learned behind the legendary bret favre for 3 years before he took over one of the most high powered offenses in the league. smith inherited a s**tty, s**tty team. smith played a spread in college. manning, brady and brees play spreads in the pros. dont blame smiths offense in college, he was damn good at it and thats the way we should play on offense anyway. build to your players strengths not the other way around like nolan tried to do.

really? cambell and vince had a 3rd degree shoulder separation? an injury that could easily end a QBs career. then he came back and wasnt healthy because our s**tty medical staff cleared him for some retarded reason and our f**king moron of a coach undermined him in front of his teamates and called him a puss for having his shoulder almost ripped off. vince had a break down because he couldnt take the pressure and cambell switched OC's , something smith also did every year. you say smith had all these gurus, ok they were good, but none of their systems are even remotely similar. McCarthy is a WCO guy, Turner is Coryell, Martz is completely unique and hostler was a joke. and besides that cambell and vince atleast had the support of their coaches, smith was thrown under the bus so nolan could cover his own ass.

as far as 06 goes atlanta did it all on the ground, they had the 32nd rated pass offense!!! smith had a better statistical season than your hero mike vick if you wanna look that up, im not gonna spoon feed you. mike vick went deep into the playoffs because they had the leagues best rushing offense, not because anyone was scared of their league worst passing offense. if your gonna make retarded claims you better go somewhere else because your "facts" are getting ripped to shreds. your gonna come back and try to argue against my facts and i dont care, not wasting anymore time on you. ALEX SMITH BANDWAGON!!! im sure the rest of your troll colony has a thread of their own on here. i suggest you find it.

http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team?stat=passing&year=2006

Also stop with the vitriol and tirades, it only makes the other poster look rational in comparison to you.

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

I've been on board since Day 1!

For Real? You mean during his first start when he had 9 completions for 23 attempts 74 yards and 4 ints? 8.51 QB rating?

A game when even Kevin Barlow ran for 99 yards against the Colts D while averaging 5.5 yards a carry to take some of the pressure off. Day 1 for real?

I'd understand based on the 2nd season, but Day 1?

You'd think that horrible 1st start would be so significant to Smith, that he would have recognized the symbolism of making his first start against the very same team. It should have shown what kind of competitor he is. If he'd played with passion and would have improvised and pulled out a win, it would have been poetic, heroic and redemptive. At last, none of these qualities apply to Alex Smith.

If he couldn't get fired up for himself, how could he lead a team to a championship?

Yeah Alex Smith was the only reason we lost that game, how dare he not beat Peyton Manning and the #2 offense and #2 ranked defense in his first NFL start. Every time you post some ridiculous crap like this you only hurt your own credibility. I mean I guess since Joe Montana never got fired up he never could lead a team to a Superbowl, but wait...he did it four times.

Also, game was played in Indy. Unbelievable that Smith (not the Niners but Smith alone) could not beat a team that made a run at an undefeated season and made it into the Super Bowl in their own house. Pitiful.

foreal, f**kin choker!!! our rookie QB in his first game, on one of the most historically bad niner teams ever, against the greatest team in the league. foaming is a joke. get real dude. and i was a fan of smiths since the day we drafted him, i wanted us to take him and im glad we did. people who think aaron rodgers wouldve been as good as he is had we taken him and started him right away are full of s**t. no QB could grow in that environment. smith is finally getting the kind of grooming a young QB needs to succeed in his 5th year. luckily for us he was drafted super young and we dont have an old rookie qb in essence. thats the main reason they stuck with him i think. he showed flashes despite his horrible surroundings, injuries and coaching blunders and is still young enough to have a long career as our starter. we will win atleast one superbowl with smith at the helm, book it.

Regardless, if Smith was a instinctual athlete and innate leader he would have taken the 06' team to the playoffs.

So you want to talk about 2006? This was the same year...

• Kwame Harris was at RT.
• Antonio Bryant was suspended for the final two games of the season.
• Vernon Davis missed 6 games due to injury.
• Mike Nolan decides to punt on 4th & an inch in St. Louis (and if you don't remember this, you're not a true fan)

There's a lot more I could argue, but sweet Jesus you're reaching.

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:
Stop comparing Smith to Hall of Famers he hasn't earned that right. He's not even in the class of Pro Bowl flash in the pans like Trent Green and Jeff Garcia.

Troy Aikman won 0 games his first season. He on 7 the next, 11 and Pro Bowl his third, SB his fourth.

Alex Smith is becoming vocal in his 6th season and still hasn't been to the playoffs.

You missed the point.

His comparison to Aikman is not to show that Smith will turn out to be like Aikman. The comparison is to show that simply looking at a player's rookie year can be deceiving.

For the record, I've supported Smith since the day that he was drafted and after his rookie year as well. Why? Because he had nowhere else to go but up. Nobody is going to argue with you that he had a bad rookie year. He did, it was abysmal. That team had more problems than just QB.

But if you're expectation was for Smith to beat the Colts in his first professional start or to lead the team to the playoffs in 2006, then you were a victim of your own lofty expectations.

-9fA

Get the idiom correct, it's a failure to live up to lofty expectations and victim of low expectations. In this case, your low expectations make it acceptable that Alex Smith be developed as project QB even though he's the #1 overall player in the draft, and as a result is expected to produce right away. Either that year or the next.

I use the 06' team as a direct comparison with the equally mediocre 02' Falcon team led by a 2nd year Micheal Vick.

The O line on that team featured only 1 Pro Bowl caliber player in Bob Whitfield, an undersized lead RB in Warren Dunn, no true #1 reciever and an ok defense.

The Niners Oline had two Pro Bowlers in Larry Allen and Justin Smiley, Frank Gore (1,695 yards), Antonio Bryant and a decent defense.

Now Vick made up for the lack of talent around him and is inability to read defenses with his natural ability to lead his team not only to the playoffs, but an unprecedented road win in GB.

Alex Smith, on the other hand had the better OC , executed Norv Turners game plan and won a few games but couldn't provide a park of his own to lead the team to the playoffs by beating mediocre division rivals Cards, Rams, or a GB at home to ensure a playoff birth.

This was before the revolving GM door, before the injuries and undermining coach. He just was mediocre where his peer was exceptional in an identical situation.

Again, YOU set yourself up for disappointment. I *believe* most analysts had Smith pegged as a project.
Reasons why he was a project:
1. Played against mediocre competition.
2. Played in a gimmick offense.

One of Smith's disadvantages was that he was not pro ready because of the above two reasons. For these reasons, he was NOT going to produce right away. If you expected that he would/should, I point you to the first sentence of this post.

Now if you question whether we should have picked Rodgers and how his career might have progressed had we picked him, that is another debate all together and is something that I don't want to get into.

While both Smith and Vick had similar supporting casts. Passing wise, Vick's 2002 season was only slightly better than Smith's 2006 season. However, they're both different QBs. Vick had the added dimension that he was a dynamic running threat. His offense was built around this ability. I would even say that defenses were had trouble adjusting to him because they hadn't seen such an athletic QB before. Just MO.

To summarise the last point, the comparison is null. Vick took his team to the playoffs in 2002 not because of his passing prowess, but because he had the added dimension that he could run the ball effectively as defenses had never before witnessed such a QB.

-9fA

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

I've been on board since Day 1!

For Real? You mean during his first start when he had 9 completions for 23 attempts 74 yards and 4 ints? 8.51 QB rating?

A game when even Kevin Barlow ran for 99 yards against the Colts D while averaging 5.5 yards a carry to take some of the pressure off. Day 1 for real?

I'd understand based on the 2nd season, but Day 1?

You'd think that horrible 1st start would be so significant to Smith, that he would have recognized the symbolism of making his first start against the very same team. It should have shown what kind of competitor he is. If he'd played with passion and would have improvised and pulled out a win, it would have been poetic, heroic and redemptive. At last, none of these qualities apply to Alex Smith.

If he couldn't get fired up for himself, how could he lead a team to a championship?

Yeah Alex Smith was the only reason we lost that game, how dare he not beat Peyton Manning and the #2 offense and #2 ranked defense in his first NFL start. Every time you post some ridiculous crap like this you only hurt your own credibility. I mean I guess since Joe Montana never got fired up he never could lead a team to a Superbowl, but wait...he did it four times.

Also, game was played in Indy. Unbelievable that Smith (not the Niners but Smith alone) could not beat a team that made a run at an undefeated season and made it into the Super Bowl in their own house. Pitiful.

foreal, f**kin choker!!! our rookie QB in his first game, on one of the most historically bad niner teams ever, against the greatest team in the league. foaming is a joke. get real dude. and i was a fan of smiths since the day we drafted him, i wanted us to take him and im glad we did. people who think aaron rodgers wouldve been as good as he is had we taken him and started him right away are full of s**t. no QB could grow in that environment. smith is finally getting the kind of grooming a young QB needs to succeed in his 5th year. luckily for us he was drafted super young and we dont have an old rookie qb in essence. thats the main reason they stuck with him i think. he showed flashes despite his horrible surroundings, injuries and coaching blunders and is still young enough to have a long career as our starter. we will win atleast one superbowl with smith at the helm, book it.

Regardless, if Smith was a instinctual athlete and innate leader he would have taken the 06' team to the playoffs.

So you want to talk about 2006? This was the same year...

• Kwame Harris was at RT.
• Antonio Bryant was suspended for the final two games of the season.
• Vernon Davis missed 6 games due to injury.
• Mike Nolan decides to punt on 4th & an inch in St. Louis (and if you don't remember this, you're not a true fan)

There's a lot more I could argue, but sweet Jesus you're reaching.

Vernon Davis was healthy during the losses in winnable games to GB & AZ. Aaron Rodgers was sacked numerous times last year but went to the playoffs. Antonio Bryant was suspended, but he was there during the 3 game skid against NO, GB, & the Rams. The Rams game was a bad call, but it's not like the defense feared the pass and would load up the box against the obvious run.

Again, I'm hearing rehashed excuses not accomplishments.

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

I've been on board since Day 1!

For Real? You mean during his first start when he had 9 completions for 23 attempts 74 yards and 4 ints? 8.51 QB rating?

A game when even Kevin Barlow ran for 99 yards against the Colts D while averaging 5.5 yards a carry to take some of the pressure off. Day 1 for real?

I'd understand based on the 2nd season, but Day 1?

You'd think that horrible 1st start would be so significant to Smith, that he would have recognized the symbolism of making his first start against the very same team. It should have shown what kind of competitor he is. If he'd played with passion and would have improvised and pulled out a win, it would have been poetic, heroic and redemptive. At last, none of these qualities apply to Alex Smith.

If he couldn't get fired up for himself, how could he lead a team to a championship?

Yeah Alex Smith was the only reason we lost that game, how dare he not beat Peyton Manning and the #2 offense and #2 ranked defense in his first NFL start. Every time you post some ridiculous crap like this you only hurt your own credibility. I mean I guess since Joe Montana never got fired up he never could lead a team to a Superbowl, but wait...he did it four times.

Also, game was played in Indy. Unbelievable that Smith (not the Niners but Smith alone) could not beat a team that made a run at an undefeated season and made it into the Super Bowl in their own house. Pitiful.

foreal, f**kin choker!!! our rookie QB in his first game, on one of the most historically bad niner teams ever, against the greatest team in the league. foaming is a joke. get real dude. and i was a fan of smiths since the day we drafted him, i wanted us to take him and im glad we did. people who think aaron rodgers wouldve been as good as he is had we taken him and started him right away are full of s**t. no QB could grow in that environment. smith is finally getting the kind of grooming a young QB needs to succeed in his 5th year. luckily for us he was drafted super young and we dont have an old rookie qb in essence. thats the main reason they stuck with him i think. he showed flashes despite his horrible surroundings, injuries and coaching blunders and is still young enough to have a long career as our starter. we will win atleast one superbowl with smith at the helm, book it.

That was the worse debut by a #1 QB ever.

As for Aaron Rodgers, he would have had a more successful debut. Coming out of college he already knew how to drop back from under center and read defenses. He played extremely well against USC's pro scheme defenses, completing 23 passes in a row.

Smith was a gimmick system quarterback, who fit into McCloughan's rigid believes about going with the taller player (Smith 6'4 to Rodgers 6'2).

As for the obstacles Smith has endured, it can be argued that Jason Campbell and Vince Young have been in similar circumstances and have excelled where Smith has failed.

Regardless, if Smith was a instinctual athlete and innate leader he would have taken the 06' team to the playoffs. Michael Vick led teams deep into the playoffs with lesser talented squads.

As for grooming, he was coached by Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, and Mike Martz. All successful coaches and OCs. If Smith is suppose to be uber intelligent, why couldn't he have picked up their systems quickly? There lies the contradiction, he's not an instinctual athlete or master of his craft. His career speaks for itself, prove to me otherwise.

ya, and smith had a ridiculous record in college too. he was a heisman finalist, had a ridiculous TD-INT ratio and yadda yadda yadda. they we both good college qbs. rodgers sat and learned behind the legendary bret favre for 3 years before he took over one of the most high powered offenses in the league. smith inherited a s**tty, s**tty team. smith played a spread in college. manning, brady and brees play spreads in the pros. dont blame smiths offense in college, he was damn good at it and thats the way we should play on offense anyway. build to your players strengths not the other way around like nolan tried to do.

really? cambell and vince had a 3rd degree shoulder separation? an injury that could easily end a QBs career. then he came back and wasnt healthy because our s**tty medical staff cleared him for some retarded reason and our f**king moron of a coach undermined him in front of his teamates and called him a puss for having his shoulder almost ripped off. vince had a break down because he couldnt take the pressure and cambell switched OC's , something smith also did every year. you say smith had all these gurus, ok they were good, but none of their systems are even remotely similar. McCarthy is a WCO guy, Turner is Coryell, Martz is completely unique and hostler was a joke. and besides that cambell and vince atleast had the support of their coaches, smith was thrown under the bus so nolan could cover his own ass.

as far as 06 goes atlanta did it all on the ground, they had the 32nd rated pass offense!!! smith had a better statistical season than your hero mike vick if you wanna look that up, im not gonna spoon feed you. mike vick went deep into the playoffs because they had the leagues best rushing offense, not because anyone was scared of their league worst passing offense. if your gonna make retarded claims you better go somewhere else because your "facts" are getting ripped to shreds. your gonna come back and try to argue against my facts and i dont care, not wasting anymore time on you. ALEX SMITH BANDWAGON!!! im sure the rest of your troll colony has a thread of their own on here. i suggest you find it.

http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team?stat=passing&year=2006

Ya know I was comparing Michael Vick in his 2nd yr vs Alex Smith's 2nd yr. So that's the 02' Falcons vs 06' Niners same talent level in regards to teams. And Vick posted a 81.6 QB rating. I believe this Bandwagon is all revved up because Smith posted an 81.5 QB rating.

As for the Falcons leading the league in rushing, well yes they won by catering to Vick's talent. The Niners haven't road Alex's talent to the playoffs the main reason he has detractors.

Vick went from Dan Reeves stone age offense to the WCO and didn't miss a beat. Campbell had 4 difference OCs in college the Coryell system, WCO, and another system in the pros.

What even ailed Vince Young he not only rebounded to save his teams season but became a better pocket passer as well. He as already led is team to the playoffs and earned a Pro Bowl.

Aaron Rodgers success in college translated to success in the pros. The same can't be said for Smith. I'm waiting to hear what Alex Smith has accomplished and not reasons why he has failed.

you just answered your question all by yourself. the falcons catered to vicks skills and what he excels at. the niners did not, on top of all the other stuff im not gonna list again that they did to stunt his development. they kept trying to put a square peg in a round hole with smith. vick and dunn carried that team with rushing, vick didnt and still doesnt scare anyone in the air. and vicks team was better than our 06 squad dont kid yourself.

and as far as my aikman comment not making sense to you, you stated that smith shouldve beat peyton manning in his first start as a rookie QB, aikman didnt beat anyone his rookie year and he was a #1 pick too. no matter what he did later in his career. alex didnt even play 3 years of football. people on here blame him for the 08 season when he didnt play a snap. hes played 43 games. aikman had continuity and a solid group around him because the cowboys built their team right. smith just last year finally had some receiving options, and hopefully he gets some protection this year. aikman didnt do it all by himself, dallas had weapons everywhere and a monster defense.

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:


We all hope Alex does great. It's just that some of us are a bit more guarded with our optimism because of his past performances...

Go Niners!

He had the best season he's ever had last year after not playing for a year and a half. He did quite well with not really knowing the offense. Now he's out there taking command of the offense, teaching his teammates exactly where they need to be, etc. I don't think any of this was mentioned last year, they just said he looked good (what else are they gonna say?). There's a big difference between taking command and looking good IMO. Now I'm not saying this is going to 100% show on the field but, it's definitely exciting and good to hear.

And how good was his best season ever? Below average! Most professionals can tell you how good a QB will be after 3 years. It's been 5 and were still arguing about Alex. Hell, if you subtract the injury seasons, he's had 3 healthy years and we still don't know if he's gonna pan out.

So, as I've said before... It's great that his team mates are saying such good things about him. Hopefully it shows that he's truly improved. Some of us have a bit more of a guarded optimistic approach and want to see this carry over to a real game before we crown his ass...

Oh, you know he only played what 10 1/2 games last season? If you add 5 1/2 games to that and he would've gone for at least 27 TD 3580 YD. Considering he didn't play for 1 1/2 years due to a major injury in his throwing shoulder, is that really below average?

I know to you these are excuses by the way you're talking about his 3 healthy years, but in those 3 healthy years one of those he was a rookie, and all 3 he had to learn a new offense. Take into account the rest of the team had to learn along with him (that's a pretty tough task). You don't just take on a new playbook with 11 men and just start steaming rolling right away (it takes time). Especially with the constant changes and horrible play from our oline. It just doesn't happen.

In no way am I crowning his ass, I'm just excited to hear good things coming out of OTAs. This is make it or break it for him. I for one want him to make it, because he's a good kid and IMO finally has the tools around him to do it.

I'm not going to argue about this with you kid. Your point of view is filled with if's and but's and it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. I have no interest in arguing these types of make believe hypotheticals.

Now, if you want to look at facts. Lets talk.

Fact 1 Pee Wee League Caliber Receivers for most of his career.
Fact 2 Inconsistency at the OC position.

Exasperated by...

Fact 3 an Offensive Line that couldn't keep him upright for longer than 2 seconds on the average.

Oh and how about fact 4? That the Opposing Defenses KNOW fact 1-3 and pinned their ears back on every down.

You claim D by your screen name but you don't give Opposing teams credit for knowing our weaknesses.

So apparently you DON'T wish to discuss facts only stats. If you want stats how bout this factoid,

Alex has gotten BETTER every year that he's been the unquestioned starter for a full season AND last year bested his 2nd year stats and only had 10.5 games on the field as the Starter. Oh and how bout this stat he contributed 10 TDs' to Davis's career year.

Do you want more or should I just leave you alone since you only wish to discuss "facts"?

~Ceadder

I'd settle for a single fact instead of the BS your trying to pass off here...

I think D-Drop, Crabs, Morgan, Battle, Conway, and Bryant (just to name a few) are all better than Pee Wee league... Made up Fact # 1... DEBUNKED!

The whole consistency card was played out when Hos was named OC a couple of years ago. Hostler was promoted so that Alex didn't have to learn a new system and would be able to finally have consistency? We all see how well that went. Made up Fact # 2... DEBUNKED!
Here's another link strait from Alex's own mouth...

If Alex couldn't stay up longer than 2 seconds but Shaun Hill could stay up for over 3, why is it all the O-Lines fault? Alex is, in part, to blame as well as the line. Made up Fact # 3... DEBUNKED!

Opposing Ds first priority was to shut down Gore and stop the run, so made up Fact # 4... DEBUNKED!


So now that all your made up BS wanna-be facts have been Debunked, maybe you should use those reading skill you were taught a couple of years ago and read what I posted. I think Alex has improved and will continue to improve; but I'm sure you're not going to read this far into my post and will continue to try and make me look like somebody who hates Alex.

As for only wanting to discuss facts, did you read the kids posts, the one that was trying to argue with me? It's full of "If you add" and "he would've gone" type statements; yet, it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. Now if you want to provide and discuss actual facts of Alex's performance, I'm all for it. If you want to continue to make excuses and look for sympathy from me, you might as well not respond to this at all. I don't care to play this what if game; the past has already been written...

Debunked?!!!

Dude you are FoS.

Period.

Fact 1 with NO TE support and ONE Receiver how in the hell can any QB succeed. You debunked nothing except possibly the "pee wee squad ANALOGY"

Fact 2 you didn't debunk this at all. I surmise that having NO OC would have been better than The Hostler. My dead grandma could call a better game. A Rookie OC (even one to keep continuity) don't Debunk SHAT bro.

Fact 3 Hill couldn't stay upright for 2 seconds either. That's why his head was getting kicked in. Go back and look at the film. Also prior to last year Hill was an UNKNOWN, he had zero reps dropping back to Pass. I surmise it's harder to play against someone you haven't strategized for. And oops looks like again you debunk NOTHING.

Oh and that "Made up fact 4?" Apparently you don't watch many 9er games. Too busy chugging Brews(or Lattes possibly?) in the parking lot I imagine. But lemme break it down for you. Two things the exchange takes LESS time than dropping back letting a play develop. Gore constantly makes something out of nothing. But...

He's probably the most successful RB to constantly get submarined behind the LoS. That is a FACT you didn't think about if you even paid attention bro.

Look man face facts you don't want to give Smith a chance to rip your heart out and take a dump on it. I get it. Yaaaaaaaaay D Niner. But you have to let the past go man or it's gonna get you from the inside out.

Again you didn't debunk ANYTHING.

But here's where I can assist you.

Fact 1 doesn't apply anymore because this team has some solid young talent on the verge.

Fact 2 doesn't apply anymore because Raye is an EXPERIENCED Coordinator with a solid track record. You may not like how last season shaped up, but having an Experienced OC for a 2nd year in a row is just short of a modern miracle. Could you imagine if we'dve had to sit through another year of Hostler? I don't believe in suicide, but I think I would have definitely contemplated it by the 4th game.

Fact 3 with more weapons at Alex's disposal Frank may have his best season yet. Because it takes the pressure off him when you have a QB that can throw the ball 40 yards without it dropping like a wounded duck to the turf.

Fact 4 Not made up. If you can stop the Run on 1st and 2nd and longs, and continue to pin your ears back and get after the ball carrier(no matter whom) and you know the Line in front of you is SHAT you're gonna do that. So again you debunked NOTHING.

~Ceadder

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:



I'm not going to argue about this with you kid. Your point of view is filled with if's and but's and it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. I have no interest in arguing these types of make believe hypotheticals.

Now, if you want to look at facts. Lets talk.

Fact 1 Pee Wee League Caliber Receivers for most of his career.
Fact 2 Inconsistency at the OC position.

Exasperated by...

Fact 3 an Offensive Line that couldn't keep him upright for longer than 2 seconds on the average.

Oh and how about fact 4? That the Opposing Defenses KNOW fact 1-3 and pinned their ears back on every down.

You claim D by your screen name but you don't give Opposing teams credit for knowing our weaknesses.

So apparently you DON'T wish to discuss facts only stats. If you want stats how bout this factoid,

Alex has gotten BETTER every year that he's been the unquestioned starter for a full season AND last year bested his 2nd year stats and only had 10.5 games on the field as the Starter. Oh and how bout this stat he contributed 10 TDs' to Davis's career year.

Do you want more or should I just leave you alone since you only wish to discuss "facts"?

~Ceadder

I'd settle for a single fact instead of the BS your trying to pass off here...

I think D-Drop, Crabs, Morgan, Battle, Conway, and Bryant (just to name a few) are all better than Pee Wee league... Made up Fact # 1... DEBUNKED!

The whole consistency card was played out when Hos was named OC a couple of years ago. Hostler was promoted so that Alex didn't have to learn a new system and would be able to finally have consistency? We all see how well that went. Made up Fact # 2... DEBUNKED!
Here's another link strait from Alex's own mouth...

If Alex couldn't stay up longer than 2 seconds but Shaun Hill could stay up for over 3, why is it all the O-Lines fault? Alex is, in part, to blame as well as the line. Made up Fact # 3... DEBUNKED!

Opposing Ds first priority was to shut down Gore and stop the run, so made up Fact # 4... DEBUNKED!


So now that all your made up BS wanna-be facts have been Debunked, maybe you should use those reading skill you were taught a couple of years ago and read what I posted. "I think Alex has improved and will continue to improve"; but I'm sure you're not going to read this far into my post and will continue to try and make me look like somebody who hates Alex.

As for only wanting to discuss facts, did you read the kids posts, the one that was trying to argue with me? It's full of "If you add" and "he would've gone" type statements; yet, it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. Now if you want to provide and discuss actual facts of Alex's performance, I'm all for it. If you want to continue to make excuses and look for sympathy from me, you might as well not respond to this at all. I don't care to play this what if game; the past has already been written...

Debunked?!!!

Dude you are FoS.

Period.

Fact 1 with NO TE support and ONE Receiver how in the hell can any QB succeed. You debunked nothing except possibly the "pee wee squad ANALOGY"

Fact 2 you didn't debunk this at all. I surmise that having NO OC would have been better than The Hostler. My dead grandma could call a better game. A Rookie OC (even one to keep continuity) don't Debunk SHAT bro.

Fact 3 Hill couldn't stay upright for 2 seconds either. That's why his head was getting kicked in. Go back and look at the film. Also prior to last year Hill was an UNKNOWN, he had zero reps dropping back to Pass. I surmise it's harder to play against someone you haven't strategized for. And oops looks like again you debunk NOTHING.

Oh and that "Made up fact 4?" Apparently you don't watch many 9er games. Too busy chugging Brews(or Lattes possibly?) in the parking lot I imagine. But lemme break it down for you. Two things the exchange takes LESS time than dropping back letting a play develop. Gore constantly makes something out of nothing. But...

He's probably the most successful RB to constantly get submarined behind the LoS. That is a FACT you didn't think about if you even paid attention bro.

Look man face facts you don't want to give Smith a chance to rip your heart out and take a dump on it. I get it. Yaaaaaaaaay D Niner. But you have to let the past go man or it's gonna get you from the inside out.

Again you didn't debunk ANYTHING.

But here's where I can assist you.

Fact 1 doesn't apply anymore because this team has some solid young talent on the verge.

Fact 2 doesn't apply anymore because Raye is an EXPERIENCED Coordinator with a solid track record. You may not like how last season shaped up, but having an Experienced OC for a 2nd year in a row is just short of a modern miracle. Could you imagine if we'dve had to sit through another year of Hostler? I don't believe in suicide, but I think I would have definitely contemplated it by the 4th game.

Fact 3 with more weapons at Alex's disposal Frank may have his best season yet. Because it takes the pressure off him when you have a QB that can throw the ball 40 yards without it dropping like a wounded duck to the turf.

Fact 4 Not made up. If you can stop the Run on 1st and 2nd and longs, and continue to pin your ears back and get after the ball carrier(no matter whom) and you know the Line in front of you is SHAT you're gonna do that. So again you debunked NOTHING.

~Ceadder

Yup Ceadder, you fail again...

Your inability to understand the definition of the word fact defies logic. On top of that, your unwillingness to read the entirety of peoples posts makes you miss a persons true position on the issues being discussed.

As a friend, I'm asking you to please stop this. You're a good poster; but, it's kinda embarrassing to watch you self destruct here...

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:
Stop comparing Smith to Hall of Famers he hasn't earned that right. He's not even in the class of Pro Bowl flash in the pans like Trent Green and Jeff Garcia.

Troy Aikman won 0 games his first season. He on 7 the next, 11 and Pro Bowl his third, SB his fourth.

Alex Smith is becoming vocal in his 6th season and still hasn't been to the playoffs.

You missed the point.

His comparison to Aikman is not to show that Smith will turn out to be like Aikman. The comparison is to show that simply looking at a player's rookie year can be deceiving.

For the record, I've supported Smith since the day that he was drafted and after his rookie year as well. Why? Because he had nowhere else to go but up. Nobody is going to argue with you that he had a bad rookie year. He did, it was abysmal. That team had more problems than just QB.

But if you're expectation was for Smith to beat the Colts in his first professional start or to lead the team to the playoffs in 2006, then you were a victim of your own lofty expectations.

-9fA

Get the idiom correct, it's a failure to live up to lofty expectations and victim of low expectations. In this case, your low expectations make it acceptable that Alex Smith be developed as project QB even though he's the #1 overall player in the draft, and as a result is expected to produce right away. Either that year or the next.

I use the 06' team as a direct comparison with the equally mediocre 02' Falcon team led by a 2nd year Micheal Vick.

The O line on that team featured only 1 Pro Bowl caliber player in Bob Whitfield, an undersized lead RB in Warren Dunn, no true #1 reciever and an ok defense.

The Niners Oline had two Pro Bowlers in Larry Allen and Justin Smiley, Frank Gore (1,695 yards), Antonio Bryant and a decent defense.

Now Vick made up for the lack of talent around him and is inability to read defenses with his natural ability to lead his team not only to the playoffs, but an unprecedented road win in GB.

Alex Smith, on the other hand had the better OC , executed Norv Turners game plan and won a few games but couldn't provide a park of his own to lead the team to the playoffs by beating mediocre division rivals Cards, Rams, or a GB at home to ensure a playoff birth.

This was before the revolving GM door, before the injuries and undermining coach. He just was mediocre where his peer was exceptional in an identical situation.

Again, YOU set yourself up for disappointment. I *believe* most analysts had Smith pegged as a project.
Reasons why he was a project:
1. Played against mediocre competition.
2. Played in a gimmick offense.

One of Smith's disadvantages was that he was not pro ready because of the above two reasons. For these reasons, he was NOT going to produce right away. If you expected that he would/should, I point you to the first sentence of this post.

Now if you question whether we should have picked Rodgers and how his career might have progressed had we picked him, that is another debate all together and is something that I don't want to get into.

While both Smith and Vick had similar supporting casts. Passing wise, Vick's 2002 season was only slightly better than Smith's 2006 season. However, they're both different QBs. Vick had the added dimension that he was a dynamic running threat. His offense was built around this ability. I would even say that defenses were had trouble adjusting to him because they hadn't seen such an athletic QB before. Just MO.

To summarise the last point, the comparison is null. Vick took his team to the playoffs in 2002 not because of his passing prowess, but because he had the added dimension that he could run the ball effectively as defenses had never before witnessed such a QB.

-9fA

Smith was drafted #1 overall, with an expectation to show the ability to play in the league and lead his team to a quick turn around. He was expected to show the same kind of production fellow #1 QBs Vick, Carson Palmer, Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford had displayed early in their career.

At no point did Nolan and McCloughan state that he's going to take time to develop and eventually get lead the team to the playoffs 6 years down the line. That's not how the NFL works.

The comparison with Vick is valid, it doesn't matter how he accomplished his goal and with what talents, he managed to lead his team to victories.

I'm hearing the same excuses, but I'm not being presented with accomplishments that Alex's Smith career can stands on.

There's no doubt this year they have given Smith and the team, the best chance to succeed compared to previous years. Even Smith seems to be very comfortable with taking charge of the offense. This has to give every fan some sense of optimism toward the team. Unless you are a total pessimist or have a total hard on hate for Smith.

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by foamingatdamouth:

Originally posted by AXEGRINDER:

Originally posted by PTulini:

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

I've been on board since Day 1!

For Real? You mean during his first start when he had 9 completions for 23 attempts 74 yards and 4 ints? 8.51 QB rating?

A game when even Kevin Barlow ran for 99 yards against the Colts D while averaging 5.5 yards a carry to take some of the pressure off. Day 1 for real?

I'd understand based on the 2nd season, but Day 1?

You'd think that horrible 1st start would be so significant to Smith, that he would have recognized the symbolism of making his first start against the very same team. It should have shown what kind of competitor he is. If he'd played with passion and would have improvised and pulled out a win, it would have been poetic, heroic and redemptive. At last, none of these qualities apply to Alex Smith.

If he couldn't get fired up for himself, how could he lead a team to a championship?

Yeah Alex Smith was the only reason we lost that game, how dare he not beat Peyton Manning and the #2 offense and #2 ranked defense in his first NFL start. Every time you post some ridiculous crap like this you only hurt your own credibility. I mean I guess since Joe Montana never got fired up he never could lead a team to a Superbowl, but wait...he did it four times.

Also, game was played in Indy. Unbelievable that Smith (not the Niners but Smith alone) could not beat a team that made a run at an undefeated season and made it into the Super Bowl in their own house. Pitiful.

foreal, f**kin choker!!! our rookie QB in his first game, on one of the most historically bad niner teams ever, against the greatest team in the league. foaming is a joke. get real dude. and i was a fan of smiths since the day we drafted him, i wanted us to take him and im glad we did. people who think aaron rodgers wouldve been as good as he is had we taken him and started him right away are full of s**t. no QB could grow in that environment. smith is finally getting the kind of grooming a young QB needs to succeed in his 5th year. luckily for us he was drafted super young and we dont have an old rookie qb in essence. thats the main reason they stuck with him i think. he showed flashes despite his horrible surroundings, injuries and coaching blunders and is still young enough to have a long career as our starter. we will win atleast one superbowl with smith at the helm, book it.

That was the worse debut by a #1 QB ever.

As for Aaron Rodgers, he would have had a more successful debut. Coming out of college he already knew how to drop back from under center and read defenses. He played extremely well against USC's pro scheme defenses, completing 23 passes in a row.

Smith was a gimmick system quarterback, who fit into McCloughan's rigid believes about going with the taller player (Smith 6'4 to Rodgers 6'2).

As for the obstacles Smith has endured, it can be argued that Jason Campbell and Vince Young have been in similar circumstances and have excelled where Smith has failed.

Regardless, if Smith was a instinctual athlete and innate leader he would have taken the 06' team to the playoffs. Michael Vick led teams deep into the playoffs with lesser talented squads.

As for grooming, he was coached by Mike McCarthy, Norv Turner, and Mike Martz. All successful coaches and OCs. If Smith is suppose to be uber intelligent, why couldn't he have picked up their systems quickly? There lies the contradiction, he's not an instinctual athlete or master of his craft. His career speaks for itself, prove to me otherwise.

ya, and smith had a ridiculous record in college too. he was a heisman finalist, had a ridiculous TD-INT ratio and yadda yadda yadda. they we both good college qbs. rodgers sat and learned behind the legendary bret favre for 3 years before he took over one of the most high powered offenses in the league. smith inherited a s**tty, s**tty team. smith played a spread in college. manning, brady and brees play spreads in the pros. dont blame smiths offense in college, he was damn good at it and thats the way we should play on offense anyway. build to your players strengths not the other way around like nolan tried to do.

really? cambell and vince had a 3rd degree shoulder separation? an injury that could easily end a QBs career. then he came back and wasnt healthy because our s**tty medical staff cleared him for some retarded reason and our f**king moron of a coach undermined him in front of his teamates and called him a puss for having his shoulder almost ripped off. vince had a break down because he couldnt take the pressure and cambell switched OC's , something smith also did every year. you say smith had all these gurus, ok they were good, but none of their systems are even remotely similar. McCarthy is a WCO guy, Turner is Coryell, Martz is completely unique and hostler was a joke. and besides that cambell and vince atleast had the support of their coaches, smith was thrown under the bus so nolan could cover his own ass.

as far as 06 goes atlanta did it all on the ground, they had the 32nd rated pass offense!!! smith had a better statistical season than your hero mike vick if you wanna look that up, im not gonna spoon feed you. mike vick went deep into the playoffs because they had the leagues best rushing offense, not because anyone was scared of their league worst passing offense. if your gonna make retarded claims you better go somewhere else because your "facts" are getting ripped to shreds. your gonna come back and try to argue against my facts and i dont care, not wasting anymore time on you. ALEX SMITH BANDWAGON!!! im sure the rest of your troll colony has a thread of their own on here. i suggest you find it.

http://football.espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team?stat=passing&year=2006

Ya know I was comparing Michael Vick in his 2nd yr vs Alex Smith's 2nd yr. So that's the 02' Falcons vs 06' Niners same talent level in regards to teams. And Vick posted a 81.6 QB rating. I believe this Bandwagon is all revved up because Smith posted an 81.5 QB rating.

As for the Falcons leading the league in rushing, well yes they won by catering to Vick's talent. The Niners haven't road Alex's talent to the playoffs the main reason he has detractors.

Vick went from Dan Reeves stone age offense to the WCO and didn't miss a beat. Campbell had 4 difference OCs in college the Coryell system, WCO, and another system in the pros.

What even ailed Vince Young he not only rebounded to save his teams season but became a better pocket passer as well. He as already led is team to the playoffs and earned a Pro Bowl.

Aaron Rodgers success in college translated to success in the pros. The same can't be said for Smith. I'm waiting to hear what Alex Smith has accomplished and not reasons why he has failed.

you just answered your question all by yourself. the falcons catered to vicks skills and what he excels at. the niners did not, on top of all the other stuff im not gonna list again that they did to stunt his development. they kept trying to put a square peg in a round hole with smith. vick and dunn carried that team with rushing, vick didnt and still doesnt scare anyone in the air. and vicks team was better than our 06 squad dont kid yourself.

and as far as my aikman comment not making sense to you, you stated that smith shouldve beat peyton manning in his first start as a rookie QB, aikman didnt beat anyone his rookie year and he was a #1 pick too. no matter what he did later in his career. alex didnt even play 3 years of football. people on here blame him for the 08 season when he didnt play a snap. hes played 43 games. aikman had continuity and a solid group around him because the cowboys built their team right. smith just last year finally had some receiving options, and hopefully he gets some protection this year. aikman didnt do it all by himself, dallas had weapons everywhere and a monster defense.

You know the injury excuse doesn't work. Donovan McNabb was maligned for not staying healthy and getting injured earlier in his career.

It's not always fair, but it is a sign of poor drafting for Smith is tall when he came into the league, but he was expected to fill out his frame with another 15 lbs. This meant he wasn't strong enough to endure an NFL pounding initially which was the case his first and third season.

Although the 06' line was maligned in retrospect, fans we're satisfied with them then, with the obvious exception of Kwame Harris. It cleared the way for Gores 1,695 yards and let miss take every snap from under center.

Smith body wasn't developed yet to take an NFL pounding, another case of bad scouting and drafting.