Alex Smith Bandwagon

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:


We all hope Alex does great. It's just that some of us are a bit more guarded with our optimism because of his past performances...

Go Niners!

He had the best season he's ever had last year after not playing for a year and a half. He did quite well with not really knowing the offense. Now he's out there taking command of the offense, teaching his teammates exactly where they need to be, etc. I don't think any of this was mentioned last year, they just said he looked good (what else are they gonna say?). There's a big difference between taking command and looking good IMO. Now I'm not saying this is going to 100% show on the field but, it's definitely exciting and good to hear.

And how good was his best season ever? Below average! Most professionals can tell you how good a QB will be after 3 years. It's been 5 and were still arguing about Alex. Hell, if you subtract the injury seasons, he's had 3 healthy years and we still don't know if he's gonna pan out.

So, as I've said before... It's great that his team mates are saying such good things about him. Hopefully it shows that he's truly improved. Some of us have a bit more of a guarded optimistic approach and want to see this carry over to a real game before we crown his ass...

Oh, you know he only played what 10 1/2 games last season? If you add 5 1/2 games to that and he would've gone for at least 27 TD 3580 YD. Considering he didn't play for 1 1/2 years due to a major injury in his throwing shoulder, is that really below average?

I know to you these are excuses by the way you're talking about his 3 healthy years, but in those 3 healthy years one of those he was a rookie, and all 3 he had to learn a new offense. Take into account the rest of the team had to learn along with him (that's a pretty tough task). You don't just take on a new playbook with 11 men and just start steaming rolling right away (it takes time). Especially with the constant changes and horrible play from our oline. It just doesn't happen.

In no way am I crowning his ass, I'm just excited to hear good things coming out of OTAs. This is make it or break it for him. I for one want him to make it, because he's a good kid and IMO finally has the tools around him to do it.

I'm not going to argue about this with you kid. Your point of view is filled with if's and but's and it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. I have no interest in arguing these types of make believe hypotheticals.

Now, if you want to look at facts. Lets talk.

Fact 1 Pee Wee League Caliber Receivers for most of his career.
Fact 2 Inconsistency at the OC position.

Exasperated by...

Fact 3 an Offensive Line that couldn't keep him upright for longer than 2 seconds on the average.

Oh and how about fact 4? That the Opposing Defenses KNOW fact 1-3 and pinned their ears back on every down.

You claim D by your screen name but you don't give Opposing teams credit for knowing our weaknesses.

So apparently you DON'T wish to discuss facts only stats. If you want stats how bout this factoid,

Alex has gotten BETTER every year that he's been the unquestioned starter for a full season AND last year bested his 2nd year stats and only had 10.5 games on the field as the Starter. Oh and how bout this stat he contributed 10 TDs' to Davis's career year.

Do you want more or should I just leave you alone since you only wish to discuss "facts"?

~Ceadder

Fact 5
Smith follows HOF QBs in Young and Montana, and Niners fans consciously or unconsciously expect not only the same results from any SF QB, but also mythologize Young and Montana that they never made mistakes.

Young got a lot of heat prior to the Super Bowl for not being Montana. Garcia got heat (remember when his dad got on a local talk-show to defend him) for not being Montana and Young. All-time greats do not roll into town too often. That the Niners got 20 years of Hall of Fame quarterbacking was unbelievable especially when you consider how long some teams (teams like Buffalo and Chicago come to mind) wait to find "the guy."

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Paul_Hofer:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:


We all hope Alex does great. It's just that some of us are a bit more guarded with our optimism because of his past performances...

Go Niners!

He had the best season he's ever had last year after not playing for a year and a half. He did quite well with not really knowing the offense. Now he's out there taking command of the offense, teaching his teammates exactly where they need to be, etc. I don't think any of this was mentioned last year, they just said he looked good (what else are they gonna say?). There's a big difference between taking command and looking good IMO. Now I'm not saying this is going to 100% show on the field but, it's definitely exciting and good to hear.

And how good was his best season ever? Below average! Most professionals can tell you how good a QB will be after 3 years. It's been 5 and were still arguing about Alex. Hell, if you subtract the injury seasons, he's had 3 healthy years and we still don't know if he's gonna pan out.

So, as I've said before... It's great that his team mates are saying such good things about him. Hopefully it shows that he's truly improved. Some of us have a bit more of a guarded optimistic approach and want to see this carry over to a real game before we crown his ass...

Oh, you know he only played what 10 1/2 games last season? If you add 5 1/2 games to that and he would've gone for at least 27 TD 3580 YD. Considering he didn't play for 1 1/2 years due to a major injury in his throwing shoulder, is that really below average?

I know to you these are excuses by the way you're talking about his 3 healthy years, but in those 3 healthy years one of those he was a rookie, and all 3 he had to learn a new offense. Take into account the rest of the team had to learn along with him (that's a pretty tough task). You don't just take on a new playbook with 11 men and just start steaming rolling right away (it takes time). Especially with the constant changes and horrible play from our oline. It just doesn't happen.

In no way am I crowning his ass, I'm just excited to hear good things coming out of OTAs. This is make it or break it for him. I for one want him to make it, because he's a good kid and IMO finally has the tools around him to do it.

I'm not going to argue about this with you kid. Your point of view is filled with if's and but's and it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. I have no interest in arguing these types of make believe hypotheticals.

Now, if you want to look at facts. Lets talk.

Fact 1 Pee Wee League Caliber Receivers for most of his career.
Fact 2 Inconsistency at the OC position.

Exasperated by...

Fact 3 an Offensive Line that couldn't keep him upright for longer than 2 seconds on the average.

Oh and how about fact 4? That the Opposing Defenses KNOW fact 1-3 and pinned their ears back on every down.

You claim D by your screen name but you don't give Opposing teams credit for knowing our weaknesses.

So apparently you DON'T wish to discuss facts only stats. If you want stats how bout this factoid,

Alex has gotten BETTER every year that he's been the unquestioned starter for a full season AND last year bested his 2nd year stats and only had 10.5 games on the field as the Starter. Oh and how bout this stat he contributed 10 TDs' to Davis's career year.

Do you want more or should I just leave you alone since you only wish to discuss "facts"?

~Ceadder

Fact 5
Smith follows HOF QBs in Young and Montana, and Niners fans consciously or unconsciously expect not only the same results from any SF QB, but also mythologize Young and Montana that they never made mistakes.

Young got a lot of heat prior to the Super Bowl for not being Montana. Garcia got heat (remember when his dad got on a local talk-show to defend him) for not being Montana and Young. All-time greats do not roll into town too often. That the Niners got 20 years of Hall of Fame quarterbacking was unbelievable especially when you consider how long some teams (teams like Buffalo and Chicago come to mind) wait to find "the guy."

But the fact remains that we've gone from Pro-Bowl type QBs to a guy who's best season is below average to average... I'm all for Smith improving and hope like hell he becomes our next Supper bowl winning QB; but, I'm not going to lose any sleep if we were to dump his ass tomorrow for someone better. I have no loyalty to a guy who continues to underwhelm after 5 years...

Originally posted by Dirty9er:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
I think it's totally valid to argue that we should have had 7 on that play vs 3. The fact that we won easily or that it was against the Lions is totally irrelevant.

You can't call yourself unbiased when you criticize Crabtree for bobbling the ball when the reason he bobbled it was directly related to how grossly under-thrown the pass was. We saw Smith do this on 2 other occasions to Crabtree (@ GB and @ STL). Has he made good throws down the field as well...yes. But he's not an accurate QB. To say that would be an injustice to truly accurate QBs like Brees, Rivers, and Manning.

I think he's getting better, no doubt...but people who want to look at this pointless and extremely subjective statistic and say he's an accurate QB are just fooling themselves. His major weakness IS accuracy/timing. He's gotten better in the pocket to some extent and we saw less of those unnecessary roll-outs this past year.

I believe he's in for his best year and I don't think he'll hold the team back...but the homers need to take the blinders off.

That's a fair enough post.

Even Smith admitted that he underthrew the ball on that particular play because he wanted to "lay it in". In the future, I do hope that he hits Crabtree better in stride. That pass should have been a TD.

I know that I wouldn't say that Smith is accurate. I've always said that his most glaring weaknesses are his leadership qualities and second is the fact that can be too careful with the football.

-9fA

The worst part of Smith's game (and there are more than just a few) is that he throws every ball like it's a 50lbs custard pie. While his accuracy can improve and his knowledge of the system can only get better Smiths game offers more concerns than answers... For me, I wonder can he really learn touch in a useful, timely fashion. That answer will be the one of the more important for 2010... Without "touch" receivers will continue to drop balls that "look" catchable but aren't necessarily so and we will continue to suck on 3rd downs and drives will continue to die…


Dirty

I like ya Dirty, but c'mon now.

This is the kind of bias that Alex Smith supporters point to time and time again. "Touch"? Dirty, are you serious? I must be seeing different games than my Niner Bro cause I see some serious "touch" passes to just VD alone last year especially the bomb for his record-tying catch against the Rams in the last game of the season. Here, let me remind you...



That's some touch right there...a 40 yard strike in stride no less. He's always had accuracy. Whether he knew the system well enough to build on that skill is another story. Right now in OTA's he's throwing his mid to long-range throws more accurately than his drop offs and short routes. He's always been identified of being very accurate on the run, too.

Your clan Dirty, the Alex-non-enthusiasts, always, I mean always, side on Alex's faults. Even if he does well, he doesn't get the credit. That's OK because ultimately Alex does have to demonstrate that he is worthy of being an NFL QB, let alone our starter.

Really, this is his year to make or break it. There's no more leeway. He's now must consistently make throws like the one above. Rather than the throws he had like the one to Crabs in the Detroit game where Alex made him wait for it. If he led him like the one with Davis, Crabs would have scored easily.

It just means that Alex developed as the year wore on.

I hear ya Dirty. It is time for Alex to prove you and your buddies wrong. And you know you hope that he does because that means we are going to the playoffs!

Originally posted by BHulman:

Originally posted by Dirty9er:

Originally posted by 9erfanAUS:

Originally posted by Leathaface:
I think it's totally valid to argue that we should have had 7 on that play vs 3. The fact that we won easily or that it was against the Lions is totally irrelevant.

You can't call yourself unbiased when you criticize Crabtree for bobbling the ball when the reason he bobbled it was directly related to how grossly under-thrown the pass was. We saw Smith do this on 2 other occasions to Crabtree (@ GB and @ STL). Has he made good throws down the field as well...yes. But he's not an accurate QB. To say that would be an injustice to truly accurate QBs like Brees, Rivers, and Manning.

I think he's getting better, no doubt...but people who want to look at this pointless and extremely subjective statistic and say he's an accurate QB are just fooling themselves. His major weakness IS accuracy/timing. He's gotten better in the pocket to some extent and we saw less of those unnecessary roll-outs this past year.

I believe he's in for his best year and I don't think he'll hold the team back...but the homers need to take the blinders off.

That's a fair enough post.

Even Smith admitted that he underthrew the ball on that particular play because he wanted to "lay it in". In the future, I do hope that he hits Crabtree better in stride. That pass should have been a TD.

I know that I wouldn't say that Smith is accurate. I've always said that his most glaring weaknesses are his leadership qualities and second is the fact that can be too careful with the football.

-9fA

The worst part of Smith's game (and there are more than just a few) is that he throws every ball like it's a 50lbs custard pie. While his accuracy can improve and his knowledge of the system can only get better Smiths game offers more concerns than answers... For me, I wonder can he really learn touch in a useful, timely fashion. That answer will be the one of the more important for 2010... Without "touch" receivers will continue to drop balls that "look" catchable but aren't necessarily so and we will continue to suck on 3rd downs and drives will continue to die…


Dirty

Smith threw some pretty good passes to Davis in the seam this year. After sitting for two years (with a pretty bad shoulder injury) I thought Smith looked decent throwing the ball this past year. Maybe not great but surely not every ball looking like "its a 50 pound custard pie." Let's hope he looks even better this fall.

I dig where you are coming from but seam passes are by design typically hard, very little arc, straight line tosses. My point is yes in the seam it's a good technique but in most other situations it makes a catch and go a bit harder to carry out...
P.S. I still think 50lbs custard pies work pretty good as an example but I be willing to compromise on my metaphore and say it looks like he's shotputting "county fair worthy" pumpkins downfield. Either way the boy lacks a bit of touch...

Dirty

Originally posted by oldman9er:

Originally posted by 49ersalldaway126:

dude is always under pressure

... and it's not just the 2.5 second pressure he gets. Ask yourselves, how much time did Smith have to work on chemistry with Crabtree or Morgan before they both started playing last year?

Pretty much zero time, so minimal time together = no chemistry = poor timing and less than ideally placed passes

It was pretty obvious while watching that it was gonna take time to build chemistry between Smith and the receivers. When a veteran like Peyton Manning spends lots of time with Harrison, Wayne, etc. the passes are gonna be well timed and more on target because they get a feel for the other's speed and decision making. This is yet another reason to be optimistic for THIS offseason. As these WRs and QB work together, this perceived accuracy issue will vanish (for the most part).

No one should have to be told this. We can go out to the park and note that if you are throwing passes to your "long time friend Johnny", your passes will be much more on target than if you are throwing passes to "unknown walk-on Seth."

Really? Shaun Hill didn't throw a pass his first 5 years or so in the league and didn't have a problem with accuracy or havig an instant rapport with his receivers. Poor guy just didn't have the arm strength to be a starter.

can we make a list of the pro-alex members and the anti-alex members so at the end of the year we can tell one half of the list to suck it? lol

Pro-Alex here!

Pro-Niners here (neither Pro nor Anti Alex though)

Originally posted by blacksailsmd:
Pro-Alex here!

Originally posted by schmons:
can we make a list of the pro-alex members and the anti-alex members so at the end of the year we can tell one half of the list to suck it? lol

I will try. Maybe the mods will get rid of it though

Originally posted by D_Niner:
Pro-Niners here (neither Pro nor Anti Alex though)

^^^I'm with this guy!!!!

as always im pro niners but yes im down with #11

Originally posted by hondakillerzx:
as always im pro niners but yes im down with #11

roger that

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:


We all hope Alex does great. It's just that some of us are a bit more guarded with our optimism because of his past performances...

Go Niners!

He had the best season he's ever had last year after not playing for a year and a half. He did quite well with not really knowing the offense. Now he's out there taking command of the offense, teaching his teammates exactly where they need to be, etc. I don't think any of this was mentioned last year, they just said he looked good (what else are they gonna say?). There's a big difference between taking command and looking good IMO. Now I'm not saying this is going to 100% show on the field but, it's definitely exciting and good to hear.

And how good was his best season ever? Below average! Most professionals can tell you how good a QB will be after 3 years. It's been 5 and were still arguing about Alex. Hell, if you subtract the injury seasons, he's had 3 healthy years and we still don't know if he's gonna pan out.

So, as I've said before... It's great that his team mates are saying such good things about him. Hopefully it shows that he's truly improved. Some of us have a bit more of a guarded optimistic approach and want to see this carry over to a real game before we crown his ass...

Oh, you know he only played what 10 1/2 games last season? If you add 5 1/2 games to that and he would've gone for at least 27 TD 3580 YD. Considering he didn't play for 1 1/2 years due to a major injury in his throwing shoulder, is that really below average?

I know to you these are excuses by the way you're talking about his 3 healthy years, but in those 3 healthy years one of those he was a rookie, and all 3 he had to learn a new offense. Take into account the rest of the team had to learn along with him (that's a pretty tough task). You don't just take on a new playbook with 11 men and just start steaming rolling right away (it takes time). Especially with the constant changes and horrible play from our oline. It just doesn't happen.

In no way am I crowning his ass, I'm just excited to hear good things coming out of OTAs. This is make it or break it for him. I for one want him to make it, because he's a good kid and IMO finally has the tools around him to do it.

I'm not going to argue about this with you kid. Your point of view is filled with if's and but's and it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. I have no interest in arguing these types of make believe hypotheticals.

Now, if you want to look at facts. Lets talk.

Fact 1 Pee Wee League Caliber Receivers for most of his career.
Fact 2 Inconsistency at the OC position.

Exasperated by...

Fact 3 an Offensive Line that couldn't keep him upright for longer than 2 seconds on the average.

Oh and how about fact 4? That the Opposing Defenses KNOW fact 1-3 and pinned their ears back on every down.

You claim D by your screen name but you don't give Opposing teams credit for knowing our weaknesses.

So apparently you DON'T wish to discuss facts only stats. If you want stats how bout this factoid,

Alex has gotten BETTER every year that he's been the unquestioned starter for a full season AND last year bested his 2nd year stats and only had 10.5 games on the field as the Starter. Oh and how bout this stat he contributed 10 TDs' to Davis's career year.

Do you want more or should I just leave you alone since you only wish to discuss "facts"?

~Ceadder

I'd settle for a single fact instead of the BS your trying to pass off here...

I think D-Drop, Crabs, Morgan, Battle, Conway, and Bryant (just to name a few) are all better than Pee Wee league... Made up Fact # 1... DEBUNKED!

The whole consistency card was played out when Hos was named OC a couple of years ago. Hostler was promoted so that Alex didn't have to learn a new system and would be able to finally have consistency? We all see how well that went. Made up Fact # 2... DEBUNKED!
Here's another link strait from Alex's own mouth...

If Alex couldn't stay up longer than 2 seconds but Shaun Hill could stay up for over 3, why is it all the O-Lines fault? Alex is, in part, to blame as well as the line. Made up Fact # 3... DEBUNKED!

Opposing Ds first priority was to shut down Gore and stop the run, so made up Fact # 4... DEBUNKED!


So now that all your made up BS wanna-be facts have been Debunked, maybe you should use those reading skill you were taught a couple of years ago and read what I posted. I think Alex has improved and will continue to improve; but I'm sure you're not going to read this far into my post and will continue to try and make me look like somebody who hates Alex.

As for only wanting to discuss facts, did you read the kids posts, the one that was trying to argue with me? It's full of "If you add" and "he would've gone" type statements; yet, it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. Now if you want to provide and discuss actual facts of Alex's performance, I'm all for it. If you want to continue to make excuses and look for sympathy from me, you might as well not respond to this at all. I don't care to play this what if game; the past has already been written...

Seriously, did you just defend Jim Hostler and Darell Jackson?

Originally posted by NickSh49:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Ceadderman:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:

Originally posted by Goldtimer:

Originally posted by D_Niner:


We all hope Alex does great. It's just that some of us are a bit more guarded with our optimism because of his past performances...

Go Niners!

He had the best season he's ever had last year after not playing for a year and a half. He did quite well with not really knowing the offense. Now he's out there taking command of the offense, teaching his teammates exactly where they need to be, etc. I don't think any of this was mentioned last year, they just said he looked good (what else are they gonna say?). There's a big difference between taking command and looking good IMO. Now I'm not saying this is going to 100% show on the field but, it's definitely exciting and good to hear.

And how good was his best season ever? Below average! Most professionals can tell you how good a QB will be after 3 years. It's been 5 and were still arguing about Alex. Hell, if you subtract the injury seasons, he's had 3 healthy years and we still don't know if he's gonna pan out.

So, as I've said before... It's great that his team mates are saying such good things about him. Hopefully it shows that he's truly improved. Some of us have a bit more of a guarded optimistic approach and want to see this carry over to a real game before we crown his ass...

Oh, you know he only played what 10 1/2 games last season? If you add 5 1/2 games to that and he would've gone for at least 27 TD 3580 YD. Considering he didn't play for 1 1/2 years due to a major injury in his throwing shoulder, is that really below average?

I know to you these are excuses by the way you're talking about his 3 healthy years, but in those 3 healthy years one of those he was a rookie, and all 3 he had to learn a new offense. Take into account the rest of the team had to learn along with him (that's a pretty tough task). You don't just take on a new playbook with 11 men and just start steaming rolling right away (it takes time). Especially with the constant changes and horrible play from our oline. It just doesn't happen.

In no way am I crowning his ass, I'm just excited to hear good things coming out of OTAs. This is make it or break it for him. I for one want him to make it, because he's a good kid and IMO finally has the tools around him to do it.

I'm not going to argue about this with you kid. Your point of view is filled with if's and but's and it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. I have no interest in arguing these types of make believe hypotheticals.

Now, if you want to look at facts. Lets talk.

Fact 1 Pee Wee League Caliber Receivers for most of his career.
Fact 2 Inconsistency at the OC position.

Exasperated by...

Fact 3 an Offensive Line that couldn't keep him upright for longer than 2 seconds on the average.

Oh and how about fact 4? That the Opposing Defenses KNOW fact 1-3 and pinned their ears back on every down.

You claim D by your screen name but you don't give Opposing teams credit for knowing our weaknesses.

So apparently you DON'T wish to discuss facts only stats. If you want stats how bout this factoid,

Alex has gotten BETTER every year that he's been the unquestioned starter for a full season AND last year bested his 2nd year stats and only had 10.5 games on the field as the Starter. Oh and how bout this stat he contributed 10 TDs' to Davis's career year.

Do you want more or should I just leave you alone since you only wish to discuss "facts"?

~Ceadder

I'd settle for a single fact instead of the BS your trying to pass off here...

I think D-Drop, Crabs, Morgan, Battle, Conway, and Bryant (just to name a few) are all better than Pee Wee league... Made up Fact # 1... DEBUNKED!

The whole consistency card was played out when Hos was named OC a couple of years ago. Hostler was promoted so that Alex didn't have to learn a new system and would be able to finally have consistency? We all see how well that went. Made up Fact # 2... DEBUNKED!
Here's another link strait from Alex's own mouth...

If Alex couldn't stay up longer than 2 seconds but Shaun Hill could stay up for over 3, why is it all the O-Lines fault? Alex is, in part, to blame as well as the line. Made up Fact # 3... DEBUNKED!

Opposing Ds first priority was to shut down Gore and stop the run, so made up Fact # 4... DEBUNKED!


So now that all your made up BS wanna-be facts have been Debunked, maybe you should use those reading skill you were taught a couple of years ago and read what I posted. I think Alex has improved and will continue to improve; but I'm sure you're not going to read this far into my post and will continue to try and make me look like somebody who hates Alex.

As for only wanting to discuss facts, did you read the kids posts, the one that was trying to argue with me? It's full of "If you add" and "he would've gone" type statements; yet, it ignores the actual results of Alex's play. Now if you want to provide and discuss actual facts of Alex's performance, I'm all for it. If you want to continue to make excuses and look for sympathy from me, you might as well not respond to this at all. I don't care to play this what if game; the past has already been written...

Seriously, did you just defend Jim Hostler and Darell Jackson?

the chick in the pink has a nice ass