49ers vs. Crabtree (Contract - Who Won?)

I recently told myself that I was going to stop getting into inane arguments and/or potentially interesting arguments with inane people, so...

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by Giant9er:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

Anybody that has been around here for any period of time on this site knows what Maddog is, a master of spin and a master of turning others info into his own. Just don't pay attention to him, I put him in the same category of poster as NolanHasAPlan(for those of you who remember that guy lol) he simply is a joke poster who cant actually believe what he is typing, he just wants a reaction and has to much time on his hands. What do you expect from a High School teacher who never made it in football? I would be cynical and hurt about my own failure too lol

The Lord of the Trolls has entered the house. NV, you are so predictable, it is...funny. What took you so long?

I think the fact that you engage those who you consider to be "trolls", while giving quick, two sentence responses to the posts that attempt to propogate intelligent discussion speaks volumes.

As a former mod, my opinion is that a valid argument could be made for your removal from the board under the High Maintenance user clause.

It isn't the fact that you disagree with people, it's the manner in which you do so. It isn't the opinions that you hold, it's the manner in which you express them. It isn't the fact that you get into heated arguments, it's the manner in which you stoke the flames.

You're toeing a very fine line.

Kronik and Nv and I have a long history. Kronik was embarrassed a long time ago when I pointed out in his Bryant Johnson Arnaz Battle thread that he made four factual errors, in order to support his position that Johnson should be kept and Battle dumped. After I did the research, and facted checked his errors, he still refused to change his thread until other posters jumped in and asked him to do so. He even admitted his error on the thread, but has held a grudge ever since.

He also tend to jump into controversial threads with nothing to add but an attack. He's been doing that for some time now, and has been warned by the mods.

As for NV, I have a lot more respect for him, since he understands the game pretty well. We simply disagree on vitually everything. He tends to also jump in and go for the character attack, which I don't understand. He can argue his points pretty well, but tends to avoid the topic and simply go the slander route.

You can see the example of both posters on this thread.

Other posters jumped in?? Who were they? Making things up again huh. You are good at that. When I realized I made mistakes, I was man enough to correct them. But you? LOL.

PS: It isn't just me and NV, I wonder why you are the most hated poster in the zone. Could it be that you deserve it???

[ Edited by kronik on Oct 8, 2009 at 16:45:59 ]

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I recently told myself that I was going to stop getting into inane arguments and/or potentially interesting arguments with inane people, so...

You stick around long enough, people will follow you, ready to attack. That was the case here.

I think you are right at this point. This topic is about tapped out, there is no reason to argue old points from post long ago, and until the details are provided on all of these contracts, there is not much to debate.

We'll see you on another thread. Until then.

I think both lost. The 49ers couldn't get a "potentially" good player onto the field for the first four games and maybe our offense would have been diff.
Crabtree lost as he missed practice, reputation, and not being part of the offensive schemes.
All in all, the bum is a 49er now, and we can only hope for the best here on.

Why does everyone love MadDog and respect his opinion when it comes to his Big Board, but any other time hes the most hated poster in the Zone?

In a nut shell Parker got what he wanted big numbers on paper even if it is a mirrage.

Crap, unless he reaches the incentives and makes it a five year deal is the looser in terms of money.

The niners overall won cause, they didn't crumble to outrageous damands and the per year average is actually less unless incentives are all met, even then they win cause they are gettin their moneys worth, so the next time someone deals with them they will know better.

Originally posted by Ether:
Why does everyone love MadDog and respect his opinion when it comes to his Big Board, but any other time hes the most hated poster in the Zone?

Cause when he delivers his Big Board he is posting information, it's when he starts in on his opinion, and goading others into attacking responses that he becomes that hated poster.

The guy has some knowledge and eye for talent, but his ego, and opinions that he sees as fact, get in the way....

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by Giant9er:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

Anybody that has been around here for any period of time on this site knows what Maddog is, a master of spin and a master of turning others info into his own. Just don't pay attention to him, I put him in the same category of poster as NolanHasAPlan(for those of you who remember that guy lol) he simply is a joke poster who cant actually believe what he is typing, he just wants a reaction and has to much time on his hands. What do you expect from a High School teacher who never made it in football? I would be cynical and hurt about my own failure too lol

The Lord of the Trolls has entered the house. NV, you are so predictable, it is...funny. What took you so long?

I think the fact that you engage those who you consider to be "trolls", while giving quick, two sentence responses to the posts that attempt to propogate intelligent discussion speaks volumes.

As a former mod, my opinion is that a valid argument could be made for your removal from the board under the High Maintenance user clause.

It isn't the fact that you disagree with people, it's the manner in which you do so. It isn't the opinions that you hold, it's the manner in which you express them. It isn't the fact that you get into heated arguments, it's the manner in which you stoke the flames.

You're toeing a very fine line.

Kronik and Nv and I have a long history. Kronik was embarrassed a long time ago when I pointed out in his Bryant Johnson Arnaz Battle thread that he made four factual errors, in order to support his position that Johnson should be kept and Battle dumped. After I did the research, and facted checked his errors, he still refused to change his thread until other posters jumped in and asked him to do so. He even admitted his error on the thread, but has held a grudge ever since.

He also tend to jump into controversial threads with nothing to add but an attack. He's been doing that for some time now, and has been warned by the mods.

As for NV, I have a lot more respect for him, since he understands the game pretty well. We simply disagree on vitually everything. He tends to also jump in and go for the character attack, which I don't understand. He can argue his points pretty well, but tends to avoid the topic and simply go the slander route.

You can see the example of both posters on this thread.

The problem is that you bring most if not all of this on yourself. You are that guy who in his mind is smarter than everyone else. Who is an authority on everything and who cannot stand to be questioned or be wrong. In thinking that you are smarter than everyone else you talk down to them and are incredibly codescending. When people call you out and actually provide concrete proof that goes against what you say, you either do not respond or have some "clever"rebuttal. I asked you after the Senior Bowl why your opinion of Raji had changed so dramatically. 2 weeks before the SB you dismissed any talk of Raji as a top 10 pick. Your exact words were that he was just not very good. Well after the SB all of the real experts were raving about Raji's play and how dominant he was, and low and behold your opinion of him changed. You claimed he was one of the best prospects to come out in a while at that position and would be a sure fire top 10 pick. Yet when I asked you twice what exactly he did to change your opinion, you couldn't provide an answer. You just provided some generic, regurgitated information on what he does well which went against what you initially said, all the while not addressing the issue of what exactly did he do at the SB to change your opinion so drastically in a matter of 2 weeks. I think in reading your posts and how you talk to others, it has become clear to me why you are a teacher. And sadly I don't believe it is to help the kids. Since you do feel you are smarter than everyone and an authority on everything and do not like to be questioned, what better place to exert your power than in a classroom with a bunch of kids. You can say whatever you want and no kid is ever going to dispute you or call BS on you. It is a perfect enviroment for someone with an ego like yours. Now I am not saying you are not a knowledgeable football fan, but I just don't believe you are as knowledgeable as you think you are. And FAN being the operative word. You are not a professional draft guru, nor a professional cap guru and you are not professional beat writer guru. You are simply a fan.




[ Edited by Hoovtrain on Oct 8, 2009 at 17:42:41 ]

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Ether:
Why does everyone love MadDog and respect his opinion when it comes to his Big Board, but any other time hes the most hated poster in the Zone?

Cause when he delivers his Big Board he is posting information, it's when he starts in on his opinion, and goading others into attacking responses that he becomes that hated poster.

The guy has some knowledge and eye for talent, but his ego, and opinions that he sees as fact, get in the way....

I like his info and stuff too but Boomer and others are just as accurate but much more pleasant. Just needs to work on his people skills.

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I recently told myself that I was going to stop getting into inane arguments and/or potentially interesting arguments with inane people, so...

sexual chocolate ladies and gentlemen........................

SEXUAL CHOCOLATE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by nvchamp9ers:

Originally posted by Giant9er:

Originally posted by kronik:

Originally posted by FILTHpigskin:
Come on guys... MadDog is always right.

Now, bow down and kiss the virtual ground he floats over.

Why does anyone care what this guy thinks? Most vets on the board already knows that he's a egotistic fraud. Most including myself have no respect for this guy and won't take him seriously. Just ignore him. If not, he may run to a mod and cry to have you banned.

Anybody that has been around here for any period of time on this site knows what Maddog is, a master of spin and a master of turning others info into his own. Just don't pay attention to him, I put him in the same category of poster as NolanHasAPlan(for those of you who remember that guy lol) he simply is a joke poster who cant actually believe what he is typing, he just wants a reaction and has to much time on his hands. What do you expect from a High School teacher who never made it in football? I would be cynical and hurt about my own failure too lol

The Lord of the Trolls has entered the house. NV, you are so predictable, it is...funny. What took you so long?

I think the fact that you engage those who you consider to be "trolls", while giving quick, two sentence responses to the posts that attempt to propogate intelligent discussion speaks volumes.

As a former mod, my opinion is that a valid argument could be made for your removal from the board under the High Maintenance user clause.

It isn't the fact that you disagree with people, it's the manner in which you do so. It isn't the opinions that you hold, it's the manner in which you express them. It isn't the fact that you get into heated arguments, it's the manner in which you stoke the flames.

You're toeing a very fine line.

Kronik and Nv and I have a long history. Kronik was embarrassed a long time ago when I pointed out in his Bryant Johnson Arnaz Battle thread that he made four factual errors, in order to support his position that Johnson should be kept and Battle dumped. After I did the research, and facted checked his errors, he still refused to change his thread until other posters jumped in and asked him to do so. He even admitted his error on the thread, but has held a grudge ever since.

He also tend to jump into controversial threads with nothing to add but an attack. He's been doing that for some time now, and has been warned by the mods.

As for NV, I have a lot more respect for him, since he understands the game pretty well. We simply disagree on vitually everything. He tends to also jump in and go for the character attack, which I don't understand. He can argue his points pretty well, but tends to avoid the topic and simply go the slander route.

You can see the example of both posters on this thread.

The problem is that you bring most if not all of this on yourself. You are that guy who in his mind is smarter than everyone else. Who is an authority on everything and who cannot stand to be questioned or be wrong. In thinking that you are smarter than everyone else you talk down to them and are incredibly codescending. When people call you out and actually provide concrete proof that goes against what you say, you either do not respond or have some "clever"rebuttal. I asked you after the Senior Bowl why your opinion of Raji had changed so dramatically. 2 weeks before the SB you dismissed any talk of Raji as a top 10 pick. Your exact words were that he was just not very good. Well after the SB all of the real experts were raving about Raji's play and how dominant he was, and low and behold your opinion of him changed. You claimed he was one of the best prospects to come out in a while at that position and would be a sure fire top 10 pick. Yet when I asked you twice what exactly he did to change your opinion, you couldn't provide an answer. You just provided some generic, regurgitated information on what he does well which went against what you initially said, all the while not addressing the issue of what exactly did he do at the SB to change your opinion so drastically in a matter of 2 weeks. I think in reading your posts and how you talk to others, it has become clear to me why you are a teacher. And sadly I don't believe it is to help the kids. Since you do feel you are smarter than everyone and an authority on everything and do not like to be questioned, what better place to exert your power than in a classroom with a bunch of kids. You can say whatever you want and no kid is ever going to dispute you or call BS on yours. It is a perfect enviroment for someone with an ego like yours. Now I am not saying you are not a knowledgeable football fan, but I just don't believe you are as knowledgeable as you think you are. And FAN being the operative word. You are not a professional draft guru, nor a professional cap guru and you are not professional beat writer guru. You are simply a fan.

And the response is.....

crickets.......crickets.......crickets.........


[ Edited by domesik on Oct 8, 2009 at 17:40:48 ]

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I was never upset with either Parker or Crabtree for trying to get the best contract that they could. I just thought it was an extremely poor move from a strategic standpoint, and I think the eventual contract and resulting public perception are confirmation of that.

I completely agree with this.

I always felt that Crabtree, as a man, had the right to make his own decisions. If that decision was to try for a better contract, it was his(and Parker's) decision to make. Everyone should have the freedom to make their own decisions. As well, everyone must accept the consequences of those decisions.

In the end, without the 49ers knowledge. Parker and Crabtree got on a plane and came to get the deal done. Also, in the end, Crabtree himself admitted to feeling humbled... That feeling, and the stunted development are the consequences for the choice he made.

That being said. I hope he has the ability to earn every penny of that contract. As fans, we should all hope for that.

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I was never upset with either Parker or Crabtree for trying to get the best contract that they could. I just thought it was an extremely poor move from a strategic standpoint, and I think the eventual contract and resulting public perception are confirmation of that.

I completely agree with this.

I always felt that Crabtree, as a man, had the right to make his own decisions. If that decision was to try for a better contract, it was his(and Parker's) decision to make. Everyone should have the freedom to make their own decisions. As well, everyone must accept the consequences of those decisions.

In the end, without the 49ers knowledge. Parker and Crabtree got on a plane and came to get the deal done. Also, in the end, Crabtree himself admitted to feeling humbled... That feeling, and the stunted development are the consequences for the choice he made.

That being said. I hope he has the ability to earn every penny of that contract. As fans, we should all hope for that.

i do not know what was ging on in their camp. but i will not blame crabtree if he had parker, sanders, and family saying he can get more money. and when he wonders halfway in if it is possible, they tell him they are about to cave, just stick with it a little longer.

i am willing to believe crabtree got sound advice from someone(finally) or realized there was no chance at it, and told parker to get it done. i just wish to make a bigger point he fired parker and hired a different agent.

Originally posted by 49erFan:

Originally posted by LA9erFan:
I was never upset with either Parker or Crabtree for trying to get the best contract that they could. I just thought it was an extremely poor move from a strategic standpoint, and I think the eventual contract and resulting public perception are confirmation of that.

I completely agree with this.

I always felt that Crabtree, as a man, had the right to make his own decisions. If that decision was to try for a better contract, it was his(and Parker's) decision to make. Everyone should have the freedom to make their own decisions. As well, everyone must accept the consequences of those decisions.

In the end, without the 49ers knowledge. Parker and Crabtree got on a plane and came to get the deal done. Also, in the end, Crabtree himself admitted to feeling humbled... That feeling, and the stunted development are the consequences for the choice he made.

That being said. I hope he has the ability to earn every penny of that contract. As fans, we should all hope for that.

That and more. I hope like hell that Crabtree is able to make enough millions off the 49ers to make this initial contract squabble small and insignificant.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by buck:
There are different ways to view the contracts that players signed.

1.total amount of the contract
2.Yearly average of the contract
3.Total amount guaranteed
4. Yearly average guaranteed
5.% of contract guaranteed

Crabtree was the 10th pick. DHB was the 7th pick. Crabtree held out with the intention of getting a contract equal to or better than DHB. Did it work?
In my estimate, the hold-out did not work. DHB’s contract was better than his slot in four of the five categories I looked at. Crabtree’s contract was better than his slot in two of those categories—total amount of contract and yearly average of the total contract. If reports are true, and I believe the reports are true, Crabtree will never earn the incentives that pushed his contract above his slot in those two categories.

In my final estimate, it clearly looks like Crabtree and Parker, and Parker in particular, lost big with this hold-out.
Crabtree DHB
1.Total amount of the contract 6th 7th
2.Yearly average of the contract 9th 6th
3.Total amount guaranteed 10th 6th
4.Yearly average guaranteed 11th 6th
5.% of contract guaranteed 31st 5th

Those are some solid numbers buck. Thanks for the info.

I think the numbers are solid, but I might not grasp well the hold-out. I want to be clear my post only speaks to the hold-out and the not the long range impact of the deal on the team or Crabtree.

Perhaps, I should have inserted my post into the debate raging on the forum. I chose not to do so, but I will.

I concluded weeks ago that Crabtree would not sign with us. Clearly, I was wrong.

The numbers I present refute the veracity of any claim dependent on the notion on uniquness of Crabtee`s fall in the draft.

To be blunt, but not insulting, Maddog just did not get it when speaking of this hold out.

Maddog teachs history. He really should understand that that world that we fabricate in our minds does not necessarily correspond to the world in which we live.