Crabtree Discussion Thread

Originally posted by DaDivaRecieva15:
Maybe the 49ers will give crab the deal he wants on his B-day... which is Monday.

Or at least offer a little more than the current offer ? One could hope they deliver

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by global_nomad:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
To me, the response by many on the board, is very disturbing. The attempt to make character assassinations on this kid is out of control at this point.

We've had comparisons to Randy Moss, who was arrested for a violent assault in college, was in trouble with the law for smoking marijuana, and more.
We have seen him characterized as "greedy", "selfish", "stubborn", and people have attempted to label his friends as a crime syndicate.
We have had many argue that he is a "diva", something that Eric Mangini (one of the least trustworthy guys in the NFL) stated.

And, on and on, the list goes.

So, the bottom line is that if anyone disagrees with Niners' management, the acceptable position is to attempt to smear their character, make them look like an arrogant, greedy, evil, bad person, who hangs out with criminals.

These people making these statements are the same ones that celebrated his selection in April, as one of the greatest gifts from the gods. And, I'm taking a wild guess here, they would not have made any of these inflammatory statements if he had simply agreed with Niners' management and signed on the dotted line.

I think we have come down to only a handful of people who can rationally argue the Niners' management position on this board, even though the Niners have a good argument. The majority seem to be resting their argument on Crabtree being vile. And that is pathetic.

I agree, everyone was so excited when we drafted him. But to the point, when do you see him signing Mad Dog. 1:14 tomorrow afternoon?

I don't see it happening. I think he's going to sit out this year, train like mad for the next draft, and try to prove the skeptics wrong on his speed.

If he was smart, he'd leave the Bay Area as soon as possible, and go train with Tom Shaw, who is one of the best combine and Pro Day trainers. He is probably the best at improving timed speeds, and if Crabtree can focus on working on all of these issues this season, and get him in the 4.40 area in his forty time (unlikely right now, but possible under Tom Shaw), he will only increase his value going into next season.

If he enters next years draft and is (most likely) drafted in a lower spot then where he is currently at, he will be making less money then what we are offering. Whats the point in that...if he wants the highest $$$ value this contract is his best bet to make the most money. I don't see him going before pick 15-18 next year and it will be for less money! This doesn't make sense to me.

I think the principle of this contract is just as important, or more important, than the final dollars and cents. A year removed from DHB would allow the process to start over again.

I think some team will make a deal for him before the draft, offer him a boatload of money (they don't have to worry about the "slotting" at that point), and their first rounder (so they have the rookie cap room).

Wouldn't we (I'm guessing here) get their 1st rounder in return? He is a first round talent so if you want him that's what its going to cost.

A year removed from football at that point. Teams don't HAVE to offer up a 1st, a lot will be based off of team needs and the value teams place upon Crabtree at that point. The 49ers will be foolish to not take the best offer on the table whatever it may be instead of playing hardball and standing pat on the idea that if you want him you need to offer a 1st round pick. Starting out high and asking for a 1st is the smart thing to do but if the best offer we get is a 2nd or 3rd we should take it.

If all we got was a 3rd I would punch something

Why are some of you guys suprised about the reaction your reading on a FAN FORUM? We have the luxury of not being rational. We are not involved in negotiations. Nobody that has any impact on the situation is reading this or gives a crap what we think (Not even you guys with a well thought out argument.... ) Every fan on here is an individual and every individual comes to this sight to express themselves as a FAN. That manifests itself in various ways. For you guys that find pleasure in crunchng cap numbers, breaking down the draft or doing a statistical analysis of the O and D even though you have ZERO IMPACT on the out come, great. By the way, as a FAN I appreciate that. But just because fans like me might not always have a well thought out post or some of our post can contradict each other from week to week doesnt mean we're stupid. It just that we use this forum to express our raw emotion.

Think of it this way, some post as if its their 49er diary, while others post as if they've been asked to write a colum for SI. At the end of the day the Niner organazation needs us both. Thats my unsolicited 2 cents.

Just a review.......

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by global_nomad:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
To me, the response by many on the board, is very disturbing. The attempt to make character assassinations on this kid is out of control at this point.

We've had comparisons to Randy Moss, who was arrested for a violent assault in college, was in trouble with the law for smoking marijuana, and more.
We have seen him characterized as "greedy", "selfish", "stubborn", and people have attempted to label his friends as a crime syndicate.
We have had many argue that he is a "diva", something that Eric Mangini (one of the least trustworthy guys in the NFL) stated.

And, on and on, the list goes.

So, the bottom line is that if anyone disagrees with Niners' management, the acceptable position is to attempt to smear their character, make them look like an arrogant, greedy, evil, bad person, who hangs out with criminals.

These people making these statements are the same ones that celebrated his selection in April, as one of the greatest gifts from the gods. And, I'm taking a wild guess here, they would not have made any of these inflammatory statements if he had simply agreed with Niners' management and signed on the dotted line.

I think we have come down to only a handful of people who can rationally argue the Niners' management position on this board, even though the Niners have a good argument. The majority seem to be resting their argument on Crabtree being vile. And that is pathetic.

I agree, everyone was so excited when we drafted him. But to the point, when do you see him signing Mad Dog. 1:14 tomorrow afternoon?

I don't see it happening. I think he's going to sit out this year, train like mad for the next draft, and try to prove the skeptics wrong on his speed.

If he was smart, he'd leave the Bay Area as soon as possible, and go train with Tom Shaw, who is one of the best combine and Pro Day trainers. He is probably the best at improving timed speeds, and if Crabtree can focus on working on all of these issues this season, and get him in the 4.40 area in his forty time (unlikely right now, but possible under Tom Shaw), he will only increase his value going into next season.

If he enters next years draft and is (most likely) drafted in a lower spot then where he is currently at, he will be making less money then what we are offering. Whats the point in that...if he wants the highest $$$ value this contract is his best bet to make the most money. I don't see him going before pick 15-18 next year and it will be for less money! This doesn't make sense to me.

I think the principle of this contract is just as important, or more important, than the final dollars and cents. A year removed from DHB would allow the process to start over again.

I think some team will make a deal for him before the draft, offer him a boatload of money (they don't have to worry about the "slotting" at that point), and their first rounder (so they have the rookie cap room).

Wouldn't we (I'm guessing here) get their 1st rounder in return? He is a first round talent so if you want him that's what its going to cost.

A year removed from football at that point. Teams don't HAVE to offer up a 1st, a lot will be based off of team needs and the value teams place upon Crabtree at that point. The 49ers will be foolish to not take the best offer on the table whatever it may be instead of playing hardball and standing pat on the idea that if you want him you need to offer a 1st round pick. Starting out high and asking for a 1st is the smart thing to do but if the best offer we get is a 2nd or 3rd we should take it.

If all we got was a 3rd I would punch something

Exactly why as fans we should be hoping for BOTH sides to budge. Crabtree take the deal...49ers offer him a little more. Doesn't matter who just someone. We don't want to have to trade him away not knowing what his value is going to be.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Why are some of you guys suprised about the reaction your reading on a FAN FORUM? We have the luxury of not being rational. We are not involved in negotiations. Nobody that has any impact on the situation is reading this or gives a crap what we think (Not even you guys with a well thought out argument.... ) Every fan on here is an individual and every individual comes to this sight to express themselves as a FAN. That manifests itself in various ways. For you guys that find pleasure in crunchng cap numbers, breaking down the draft or doing a statistical analysis of the O and D even though you have ZERO IMPACT on the out come, great. By the way, as a FAN I appreciate that. But just because fans like me might not always have a well thought out post or some of our post can contradict each other from week to week doesnt mean we're stupid. It just that we use this forum to express our raw emotion.

Think of it this way, some post as if its their 49er diary, while others post as if they've been asked to write a colum for SI. At the end of the day the Niner organazation needs us both. Thats my unsolicited 2 cents.

While everyone does have the right to their opinion and to express themselves as they please, they still should not be assassinating his character as they would not like their character to be assassinated for the choices they make in life with 200 pages of smut.

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

Originally posted by BigRon:
This is simply a matter of two conflicting business philosophies trying to merge into one entity. Both sides have strong arguments and both are dealing for perceived strengths.

If there is a villain in this, it is the fans who are going out of their way to spew derogatory, vile pieces of profanity in the direction of a young man who has been given some terrible advice from those around him. These few souls, who have invested many long years of emotion into a team who has given back little over the past decade are pouring out their frustrations in a worthless gesture of perceived manhood.

Crabtree and his agent along with the 49ers have reached an impasse. Whether or not it is settled by the November date, the season starts tomorrow and we have a team we need to support and players we should be thrilled about. One great tackle from Willis, One great catch by any one will herald a fresh start. We are 0-0 with Superbowl dreams, like all fans we think we can get to the playoffs and beyound today. Tomorrow we get a glimpse of the team we have, why waste the time in search of the team we don't.

Well-stated. Bravo! It is time for the team to move forward. This is simply a contract negotiation that seemed to have no final solution acceptable to both parties.

Of course, as we know, Crabtree is a baby-killer....wait, he just accepted the Niners' offer...he is a saint.

That's the problem with NT. I understand the arguments made by both sides, and it's time both sides compromise. Like I stated before, Niners should meet them half way (as the last option left) and offer a contract between the 8th and the 9th slot. Both sides can save face and both sides NEED each other.

For the people who are calling him names and comparing him to turds, that's just silly. I completely understand where he is coming from, but I hope he understands that he is more at risk if he doesn't sign.

Originally posted by BrianGO:

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:
Trent Dilfer's interview with ESPN radio with Michael Kay, link on the other Crabtree thread:
Dilfer, on Crabtree: "The kid is a really fine athlete. A lot has been made of his holdout, and I agreed early on that I wouldn't get in on all that. That's not my role as an analyst for ESPN. I have a close relationship with the 49ers people, so it just wasn't appropriate for me to get involved in that realm. But I felt I could mentor him, coach him up, help him out, and be a live arm for him to catch some live balls.

I was very impressed. He was in great shape. He works incredibly hard. He's actually in one-on-one time with him a humble kid, he wants to learn and he wants to be great, and that is what struck me after a couple days with him, how great he wants to be, how he approached it, and I was thoroughly impressed in my two day workout with him.

Q: Some have said that he has not been working out due to a football injury. Is it true?

Dilfer: "I can tell you that it isn't true. He's very healthy, he can line up right now and play, so you can take it from me, those rumors are not true."

Q: Is this kid making a smart move? Is there an end game for holding out as long as he has?

Dilfer: "I don't see it. I don't see it this late in the process. I understand holdouts early in the process. I understand their pride is being hurt. I really believe he is much better than the two receivers taken ahead of him. I think the 49ers believe it, that there is no doubt about that. But, I don't know what is going on now. I think he is getting some advice from some people, not real good advice, but I also think he is a very, you know he compartmentalizes things, the kid impresses me because he is very focused, you see him saying, I'm going to focus on getting better, and I'm going to let the people that I hired do the other stuff; he doesn't know the business and he is so locked up is his world of getting better and being prepared, I can see him compartmentalizing this and not seeing the end result of this.

Q: It just seems such a waste. Football players' careers are so short, and to throw a year away is just sad, I hope he comes to an agreement, but I don't know if he will.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The interview continues with a question about Eric Mangini (this is the same person who accused Michael Crabtree of being a diva, and then passing on him with the 5th overall by trading down). The questioner and Trent Dilfer both proclaim the complete shock over the stupidity of Mangini not naming a starting QB. Interesting transition from the Crabtree conversation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In conclusion: I have encouraged the board for weeks now not to make character assassinations on Crabtree, as nobody really knows if he is the "greedy, selfish, evil" person labeled by many on the board. It seems that Trent Dilfer did not get that impression at all after spending two days with the kid. Now, could he have been bluffing? Maybe. However, I think it is premature to blame the kid for the contract negotiation, as many have suggested, and even more foolish and premature to paint him as a bad guy.

I wish him the best on his next franchise.

Good read. I do have to say that, even if Crabtree is gettin' bad advise, he has to be smart enough to realize by now that their advise is not in HIS best interest. I do think Niners should break the 10th slot and offer him a deal between the 8th and 9th slot and meet him half way. I think this way, both Niners and Crabtree's team can save face. I also think Niners need to include easier to achieve incentives such as a pro-bowl appearance in the 3rd season should trigger a bonus in the 4th year or something like that.

If that was the case, he would have signed by now, correct?

Therefore, it is not the case. Therefore, he is not smart. In fact, most likely quite the opposite.

The only people "wishing him well" at this point are, his mother, his advisors, and MadDog.

9 times out of 10, when an NFL player is described as a "good kid," its because they are trying to gloss something over.

All of these players have been described as "good kids":

Terrell Owens
Randy Moss
Michael Vick
Plaxico Burress
O.J. Simpson (also described as a "good husband")
Maurice Clarett
Leonard Little
Chris Henry
Pacman Jones

The list goes on and on...

Most of them are not murderers, some don't break the law, so I guess that makes them "good."

Has Patrick Willis ever been called a "good kid"? Thankfully, not from my recollection. But that is a good thing.

Because if you need to be described as a "good kid," its because that very idea has been COMPROMISED at some point.

Its so obvious that players like Patrick Willis and Frank Gore are "good kids," that they are NEVER called "good kids" in the first place!

Michael Crabtree's a "good kid"?

Good riddance!

Really? So, if any player has been called a good kid by his coach or peers that means they aren't? That makes no sense.

What does it mean when a coach says, "he is a good tackler" or a "good route-runner"

Originally posted by DaDivaRecieva15:
Maybe the 49ers will give crab the deal he wants on his B-day... which is Monday.

Same as mine

c'mon niners and crabtree - make it happen. I won't mind getting the good news early either.

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by vermonator:
This debacle, no matter what side you choose to blame, will probably end McClaughan's tenure with the 49ers. With the exception of Patrick Willis, McClaughan has really dropped the ball in the first round and has really set us back. It will be interesting to see what happens after the season.

Mike Holmgren, come on down!

Are you kidding? If McC didn't draft Crabtree the entire fanbase, media, etc. would have been calling for his head. Did you see how ramped up everyone at the Niner draft party, and on these boards, were ramped up about him? McC took a top five talent that fell to ten. The only one to blame is Crabtree or his agent and perhaps Al Davis for over paying Heyward-Bey.

Yeah, I was there too yelling, Crabtree, Crabtree, Crabtree, but that's not the point. GM's aren't suppose to listen to the fans they have to do their own due diligence and know who their taking before they make the pick. McClaughan obviously didn't think he would be available and didn't do his homework. Not saying he shouldn't have picked Crabtree per say, just that McClaughan should have had a better feel for who Michael Crabtree was before he made the decision to take him 10th over all. Turns out he didn't and here we are.

I'm sure Raider fans where pissed on draft day for not taking Crabtree but now they are singing Al Davis' praises.

Hindsight is 20/20 but McClaughan should have known better. There where plenty of red flags he should have been aware of that could have at least helped in the early negotiations. Too put it bluntly, McClaughan and the front office dropped the ball. They put a deal on the table that was non negotiable pitting themselves and Crabtree in a very precarious situation.

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Why are some of you guys suprised about the reaction your reading on a FAN FORUM? We have the luxury of not being rational. We are not involved in negotiations. Nobody that has any impact on the situation is reading this or gives a crap what we think (Not even you guys with a well thought out argument.... ) Every fan on here is an individual and every individual comes to this sight to express themselves as a FAN. That manifests itself in various ways. For you guys that find pleasure in crunchng cap numbers, breaking down the draft or doing a statistical analysis of the O and D even though you have ZERO IMPACT on the out come, great. By the way, as a FAN I appreciate that. But just because fans like me might not always have a well thought out post or some of our post can contradict each other from week to week doesnt mean we're stupid. It just that we use this forum to express our raw emotion.

Think of it this way, some post as if its their 49er diary, while others post as if they've been asked to write a colum for SI. At the end of the day the Niner organazation needs us both. Thats my unsolicited 2 cents.

While everyone does have the right to their opinion and to express themselves as they please, they still should not be assassinating his character as they would not like their character to be assassinated for the choices they make in life with 200 pages of smut.

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Exactly. I just don't understand all the name calling...and what's wrong with being selfish? Any successful person needs to have some degree of selfishness.

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Why are some of you guys suprised about the reaction your reading on a FAN FORUM? We have the luxury of not being rational. We are not involved in negotiations. Nobody that has any impact on the situation is reading this or gives a crap what we think (Not even you guys with a well thought out argument.... ) Every fan on here is an individual and every individual comes to this sight to express themselves as a FAN. That manifests itself in various ways. For you guys that find pleasure in crunchng cap numbers, breaking down the draft or doing a statistical analysis of the O and D even though you have ZERO IMPACT on the out come, great. By the way, as a FAN I appreciate that. But just because fans like me might not always have a well thought out post or some of our post can contradict each other from week to week doesnt mean we're stupid. It just that we use this forum to express our raw emotion.

Think of it this way, some post as if its their 49er diary, while others post as if they've been asked to write a colum for SI. At the end of the day the Niner organazation needs us both. Thats my unsolicited 2 cents.

While everyone does have the right to their opinion and to express themselves as they please, they still should not be assassinating his character as they would not like their character to be assassinated for the choices they make in life with 200 pages of smut.

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Exactly. I just don't understand all the name calling...and what's wrong with being selfish? Any successful person needs to have some degree of selfishness.

No one needs to be selfish to be successful, that's a crock...

Originally posted by 49ersMyLife:

Originally posted by KRS-1:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Why are some of you guys suprised about the reaction your reading on a FAN FORUM? We have the luxury of not being rational. We are not involved in negotiations. Nobody that has any impact on the situation is reading this or gives a crap what we think (Not even you guys with a well thought out argument.... ) Every fan on here is an individual and every individual comes to this sight to express themselves as a FAN. That manifests itself in various ways. For you guys that find pleasure in crunchng cap numbers, breaking down the draft or doing a statistical analysis of the O and D even though you have ZERO IMPACT on the out come, great. By the way, as a FAN I appreciate that. But just because fans like me might not always have a well thought out post or some of our post can contradict each other from week to week doesnt mean we're stupid. It just that we use this forum to express our raw emotion.

Think of it this way, some post as if its their 49er diary, while others post as if they've been asked to write a colum for SI. At the end of the day the Niner organazation needs us both. Thats my unsolicited 2 cents.

While everyone does have the right to their opinion and to express themselves as they please, they still should not be assassinating his character as they would not like their character to be assassinated for the choices they make in life with 200 pages of smut.

Do unto others as you would have others do unto you.

Exactly. I just don't understand all the name calling...and what's wrong with being selfish? Any successful person needs to have some degree of selfishness.

THIS IS A f**k'N NFL FORUM, NOT A 1st GRADE CLASS ROOM. Good thing you guys aren't Philly or Brown fans, you would be scared to go to a game.

Originally posted by vermonator:

Originally posted by RedWaltz24:

Originally posted by vermonator:
This debacle, no matter what side you choose to blame, will probably end McClaughan's tenure with the 49ers. With the exception of Patrick Willis, McClaughan has really dropped the ball in the first round and has really set us back. It will be interesting to see what happens after the season.

Mike Holmgren, come on down!

Are you kidding? If McC didn't draft Crabtree the entire fanbase, media, etc. would have been calling for his head. Did you see how ramped up everyone at the Niner draft party, and on these boards, were ramped up about him? McC took a top five talent that fell to ten. The only one to blame is Crabtree or his agent and perhaps Al Davis for over paying Heyward-Bey.

Yeah, I was there too yelling, Crabtree, Crabtree, Crabtree, but that's not the point. GM's aren't suppose to listen to the fans they have to do their own due diligence and know who their taking before they make the pick. McClaughan obviously didn't think he would be available and didn't do his homework. Not saying he shouldn't have picked Crabtree per say, just that McClaughan should have had a better feel for who Michael Crabtree was before he made the decision to take him 10th over all. Turns out he didn't and here we are.

I'm sure Raider fans where pissed on draft day for not taking Crabtree but now they are singing Al Davis' praises.

Hindsight is 20/20 but McClaughan should have known better. There where plenty of red flags he should have been aware of that could have at least helped in the early negotiations. Too put it bluntly, McClaughan and the front office dropped the ball. They put a deal on the table that was non negotiable pitting themselves and Crabtree in a very precarious situation.

Come on, if they hadn't taken Crabtree you, me and every other supporter would have had a whip round to pay for a hit man to take the front office out.

This is not an endemic problem for the team, and I don't recall anyone predicting it.

Start of the season. Lets get this last bit of business done and move on. Sign it, Michael. Make it happen, team.

if a Crabtree signing isn't reported by Monday or Tuesday he will sit out the entire year....I am really surprised I've called that he would sign sometime last week for a while. Guess i was wrong.