New Stadium Design: Fan or not?

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

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Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

.................................................//
.........................................../////
....________///////////////

how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

I understand the intent of the huge bowl, but answer me this. What "type" of fan do you think it is that will be filling the majority of those seats. Hardcore webzone like fans who will make all kind of noise and support the team, or do you think it's more likely filled with 70-80% wine and chees folks who will be sittin on their hands?

See the problem with the huge lower bowl in the SF area is this. In my opinion, most lower seats in a stadium are filled with people who earn more cash. People who are larger earners tend to be less vocal at sporting events, and many only go to show status. The real loud and raucous fans sit in the middle sections at EVERY stadium I have ever been to. Now I have not been to EVERY stadium, and actually very few of the NFL's stadiums (GB, CHI, ARI, MIN) but each several times. Invariably the middle section, the section consisting of more middle class folks, is the loudest and most into the game, atleast from my experiences.

To wrap it up, SF has always been known for having a wine and cheese crowd who sometimes lack the enthusiasm that other teams fanbases display. The stadium design can go a long way towards changing that fact/perception, yet the current design only fosters that kind of crowd imo. We will see a big ol wine/cheese tasting like environment in that huge lower bowl, but those folks are not the REAL 49er fans, for the most part, and therefor the team looses what could be an audible advantage.

Again all, this is just my personal opinion. I am happy as a clam the team is likely getting a new stadium, I just wish the Yorks would have designed it with the hardcore and vocal fans in mind and not the corporations that they are going to sell those lower bowl tickets to.

Well by that logic then Seattle should be a very mellow atmosphere because the price of living in Seattle is through the roof and only the wealthiest would be able to afford to go to the game. And the cheap seats in that stadium are regulated to the endzone that looks like half a football.

Yet these fans make a lot of money and they are very loud. One of the toughest stadiums to play in. Your making a huge rationalization by assuming just because a person has a good income he will not be very loud.

In actuality it is the fan base that determines how loud the stadium is, not the stadium design. When the Eagles moved from the Vet to their new place, they did not lose any of their reputation. It doesn't matter if you put them in a high school stadium, they will be just as rabid and crazy and crued as they always are.

A stdium is not going to change the character of the fans. The places you have mentioned have always had crazy fans regardless of what stadium you put them in. Stadium has very little to do with your arguement.

The Character and atmosphere of a teams home field is determined by the Fans, not the stadium design.

Originally posted by yoyo49:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

............................//
...................../////
________////////

Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

.................................................//
.........................................../////
....________///////////////

how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

I understand the intent of the huge bowl, but answer me this. What "type" of fan do you think it is that will be filling the majority of those seats. Hardcore webzone like fans who will make all kind of noise and support the team, or do you think it's more likely filled with 70-80% wine and chees folks who will be sittin on their hands?

See the problem with the huge lower bowl in the SF area is this. In my opinion, most lower seats in a stadium are filled with people who earn more cash. People who are larger earners tend to be less vocal at sporting events, and many only go to show status. The real loud and raucous fans sit in the middle sections at EVERY stadium I have ever been to. Now I have not been to EVERY stadium, and actually very few of the NFL's stadiums (GB, CHI, ARI, MIN) but each several times. Invariably the middle section, the section consisting of more middle class folks, is the loudest and most into the game, atleast from my experiences.

To wrap it up, SF has always been known for having a wine and cheese crowd who sometimes lack the enthusiasm that other teams fanbases display. The stadium design can go a long way towards changing that fact/perception, yet the current design only fosters that kind of crowd imo. We will see a big ol wine/cheese tasting like environment in that huge lower bowl, but those folks are not the REAL 49er fans, for the most part, and therefor the team looses what could be an audible advantage.

Again all, this is just my personal opinion. I am happy as a clam the team is likely getting a new stadium, I just wish the Yorks would have designed it with the hardcore and vocal fans in mind and not the corporations that they are going to sell those lower bowl tickets to.

Well by that logic then Seattle should be a very mellow atmosphere because the price of living in Seattle is through the roof and only the wealthiest would be able to afford to go to the game. And the cheap seats in that stadium are regulated to the endzone that looks like half a football.

Yet these fans make a lot of money and they are very loud. One of the toughest stadiums to play in. Your making a huge rationalization by assuming just because a person has a good income he will not be very loud.

In actuality it is the fan base that determines how loud the stadium is, not the stadium design. When the Eagles moved from the Vet to their new place, they did not lose any of their reputation. It doesn't matter if you put them in a high school stadium, they will be just as rabid and crazy and crued as they always are.

A stdium is not going to change the character of the fans. The places you have mentioned have always had crazy fans regardless of what stadium you put them in. Stadium has very little to do with your arguement.

The Character and atmosphere of a teams home field is determined by the Fans, not the stadium design.

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

............................//
...................../////
________////////

Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

.................................................//
.........................................../////
....________///////////////

how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

I understand the intent of the huge bowl, but answer me this. What "type" of fan do you think it is that will be filling the majority of those seats. Hardcore webzone like fans who will make all kind of noise and support the team, or do you think it's more likely filled with 70-80% wine and chees folks who will be sittin on their hands?

See the problem with the huge lower bowl in the SF area is this. In my opinion, most lower seats in a stadium are filled with people who earn more cash. People who are larger earners tend to be less vocal at sporting events, and many only go to show status. The real loud and raucous fans sit in the middle sections at EVERY stadium I have ever been to. Now I have not been to EVERY stadium, and actually very few of the NFL's stadiums (GB, CHI, ARI, MIN) but each several times. Invariably the middle section, the section consisting of more middle class folks, is the loudest and most into the game, atleast from my experiences.

To wrap it up, SF has always been known for having a wine and cheese crowd who sometimes lack the enthusiasm that other teams fanbases display. The stadium design can go a long way towards changing that fact/perception, yet the current design only fosters that kind of crowd imo. We will see a big ol wine/cheese tasting like environment in that huge lower bowl, but those folks are not the REAL 49er fans, for the most part, and therefor the team looses what could be an audible advantage.

Again all, this is just my personal opinion. I am happy as a clam the team is likely getting a new stadium, I just wish the Yorks would have designed it with the hardcore and vocal fans in mind and not the corporations that they are going to sell those lower bowl tickets to.

To really believe that all those stands are going to be filled with rich people who think they are sitting at an opera house rather than a stadium is a bit silly and in the bold I try to warn you that this opinion would not hold water but you insisted. I think the subsequent post by other members on the fan aspect did a good job argue that point for me.

In addition don't come back with the point that the York's should somehow build a stadium design around that fan stereotype, because that's another loosing argument. The York's are giving us the tools to have that 12th player and if we don't bring it, it's on us not the stadium design. In addition you shouldn't build for the now when we are talking about something that is half a decade away. You build for the future and hope you string some wins together and have an energized base when the stadium opens. To build for your stereotyped fan base now would be to build for failure.

Design a stadium that with roaring fans will create the most noise on the field while while being open to the elements and having great visual experience.... check mark

Originally posted by 09etihW:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

............................//
...................../////
________////////

Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

.................................................//
.........................................../////
....________///////////////

how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

I understand the intent of the huge bowl, but answer me this. What "type" of fan do you think it is that will be filling the majority of those seats. Hardcore webzone like fans who will make all kind of noise and support the team, or do you think it's more likely filled with 70-80% wine and chees folks who will be sittin on their hands?

See the problem with the huge lower bowl in the SF area is this. In my opinion, most lower seats in a stadium are filled with people who earn more cash. People who are larger earners tend to be less vocal at sporting events, and many only go to show status. The real loud and raucous fans sit in the middle sections at EVERY stadium I have ever been to. Now I have not been to EVERY stadium, and actually very few of the NFL's stadiums (GB, CHI, ARI, MIN) but each several times. Invariably the middle section, the section consisting of more middle class folks, is the loudest and most into the game, atleast from my experiences.

To wrap it up, SF has always been known for having a wine and cheese crowd who sometimes lack the enthusiasm that other teams fanbases display. The stadium design can go a long way towards changing that fact/perception, yet the current design only fosters that kind of crowd imo. We will see a big ol wine/cheese tasting like environment in that huge lower bowl, but those folks are not the REAL 49er fans, for the most part, and therefor the team looses what could be an audible advantage.

Again all, this is just my personal opinion. I am happy as a clam the team is likely getting a new stadium, I just wish the Yorks would have designed it with the hardcore and vocal fans in mind and not the corporations that they are going to sell those lower bowl tickets to.

This logic is so flawed I don't know where to begin. The stadium is designed with the largest lower bowl in the NFL, bringing as many fans as possible closer to the action with the best sightlines. Amazing how you want to turn this into a negative. Instead, you'd like the stadium to be designed with more "cheap" seats that are FARTHER from the action? Do you think Quest Field is loud because it's filled with cheap fans and cheap seats?

If, by your logic, there are so many "hardcore non cheese eating fans" just waiting to buy tickets, where have they been. We've had the lowest tickets prices in the NFL recently. And to classify all fans who can afford to pay a little extra for better seats as wine and cheese eaters is ridiculous. You know what makes for a loud, rowdy crowd? Wins. Yup, good ol' fashion winning.

The team has done exactly what you seem to be asking for: designed a stadium that will maximize crowd noise by bringing as many fans as possible as close to the field as possible. Sounds to me like your problem is not with the stadium, but with the fans themselves. I don't recall our "wine and cheese loving fans" being a problem when we were winning championships.

How is using terms such as mostly or generally equate to all?

Our wine and cheese eating fans have NEVER and I mean N E V E R been as roudy or raucous as even a KC or GB regular season game when we were winning championships so paaaalease.

Why does my opinion seem to infuriate you. It's the opinion of one guy on an internet forum. Not everyone is going to have the roseygood feelings opinion that you do, get over it.

Originally posted by WINiner:


How is using terms such as mostly or generally equate to all?

Our wine and cheese eating fans have NEVER and I mean N E V E R been as roudy or raucous as even a KC or GB regular season game when we were winning championships so paaaalease.

Why does my opinion seem to infuriate you. It's the opinion of one guy on an internet forum. Not everyone is going to have the roseygood feelings opinion that you do, get over it.

how are they the stadiums fault, if they give us the tools to get the job done and we dont, how is that their fault

edit: how am I infuriated... hahaha wow way off base buddy. I am very mildly tell you that I think your opinions are off base and make no sense, to say i'm getting worked up is nothing but a ploy for you to try and reestablish your idea's.

[ Edited by Shorteous on Jun 4, 2009 at 12:29:40 ]

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

............................//
...................../////
________////////

Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

.................................................//
.........................................../////
....________///////////////

how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

I understand the intent of the huge bowl, but answer me this. What "type" of fan do you think it is that will be filling the majority of those seats. Hardcore webzone like fans who will make all kind of noise and support the team, or do you think it's more likely filled with 70-80% wine and chees folks who will be sittin on their hands?

See the problem with the huge lower bowl in the SF area is this. In my opinion, most lower seats in a stadium are filled with people who earn more cash. People who are larger earners tend to be less vocal at sporting events, and many only go to show status. The real loud and raucous fans sit in the middle sections at EVERY stadium I have ever been to. Now I have not been to EVERY stadium, and actually very few of the NFL's stadiums (GB, CHI, ARI, MIN) but each several times. Invariably the middle section, the section consisting of more middle class folks, is the loudest and most into the game, atleast from my experiences.

To wrap it up, SF has always been known for having a wine and cheese crowd who sometimes lack the enthusiasm that other teams fanbases display. The stadium design can go a long way towards changing that fact/perception, yet the current design only fosters that kind of crowd imo. We will see a big ol wine/cheese tasting like environment in that huge lower bowl, but those folks are not the REAL 49er fans, for the most part, and therefor the team looses what could be an audible advantage.

Again all, this is just my personal opinion. I am happy as a clam the team is likely getting a new stadium, I just wish the Yorks would have designed it with the hardcore and vocal fans in mind and not the corporations that they are going to sell those lower bowl tickets to.

To really believe that all those stands are going to be filled with rich people who think they are sitting at an opera house rather than a stadium is a bit silly and in the bold I try to warn you that this opinion would not hold water but you insisted. I think the subsequent post by other members on the fan aspect did a good job argue that point for me.

In addition don't come back with the point that the York's should somehow build a stadium design around that fan stereotype, because that's another loosing argument. The York's are giving us the tools to have that 12th player and if we don't bring it, it's on us not the stadium design. In addition you shouldn't build for the now when we are talking about something that is half a decade away. You build for the future and hope you string some wins together and have an energized base when the stadium opens. To build for your stereotyped fan base now would be to build for failure.

Design a stadium that with roaring fans will create the most noise on the field while while being open to the elements and having great visual experience.... check mark

I guess we will agree too disagree, but say what you want, SF fans already sit on their hands too often at games as it is, and this is historically, not just recently. We will see whats what when the stadium is finished and games are played wont we? Neither of us can be right until then.

Just because I disagree doesn't mean I am right, just that I think I am.

Originally posted by WINiner:


I guess we will agree too disagree, but say what you want, SF fans already sit on their hands too often at games as it is, and this is historically, not just recently. We will see whats what when the stadium is finished and games are played wont we? Neither of us can be right until then.

Just because I disagree doesn't mean I am right, just that I think I am.

Your right, we could most defiantly have the fans that may not be able to create the noise. Does that have any barring on the stadium design or make the stadium suck? I say no, the design is great and will be state of the art and have the ability to bring the noise should we deem it necessary. Personally I think it's a great design for the location and I look forward to one day fly in and watch a game.

[ Edited by Shorteous on Jun 4, 2009 at 12:34:57 ]

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by 09etihW:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:

Originally posted by WINiner:

Originally posted by Shorteous:


Then why in the world would you even initially complain about the stadium design (which you didn't understand) in the first place. Unless you really believe that most of the crowd noise comes from the upper decks??? Or you were trying to say that only the mellow mushrooms could afford to fill the 40k of seats in the bottom rows and all us average joes will be riding tandem on the upper deck seats??? You defiantly just contradicted yourself and in doing so ousted yourself as only being here to be a nah say'er or inept at critical thinking..... massive fail on your part hahaha

............................//
...................../////
________////////

Ya, ok the top brings all the noise.

Plus if you do a little research you'll find that the two points of emphasis when the stadium was designed was to maximize sound and experience, I get how it doesn't look like it will be loud. I'm sure there is a plethora of engineering tricks used to help sound magnification and just because it doesn't fit our cookie cutter idea of what would be the best method doesn't mean it's not. Remember if engineering was so obvious and straight forward don't you think we'd all do it??

By your own design, the Yorks are offering a stadium more like

.................................................//
.........................................../////
....________///////////////

how exactly is that going to keep the noise in? Also as I have posted elsewhere, how exactly does this foster a rabid, crowd involved, football experience? It makes for a beach party type evironment, which is fun and all, just not what should be the focus for a FOOTBALL stadium, imo.

Once again I'll try and point out the same exact thing and see if you pick up on it and we can use your example if you'd like. If you have 30-40 thousand people at ground level you are going to have a massive amount of noise at the field level. Although in a open stadium you loose out on the ability to reflect sound back down this in itself is a supplement at best to real sound. If you think that because there isn't as many seats in the upper teir that we'll be loosing alot of noise I have to ask you if you think that the sound created up there has the same effect on the field as the sound created at field level? In addition alot of your no fun fans can be in their glass boxes so that the roudy fans don't have to worry about standing up and cheering.

I think at this point if you Don't agree you never will and that's fine. Personally I think having a giant lower field is going to make it really loud on the field and if you argue that we don't have the fan base for that then it falls more on the fans then it does stadium design which renders your disproval moot anyways.

If you think the stadium is bland and boring then that's personal taste but if you ask me these preliminary pictures look pretty awesome and unique. http://www.49ers.com/stadium/49ers_stadium.php?section=ST%20Stadium%20Tour

I understand the intent of the huge bowl, but answer me this. What "type" of fan do you think it is that will be filling the majority of those seats. Hardcore webzone like fans who will make all kind of noise and support the team, or do you think it's more likely filled with 70-80% wine and chees folks who will be sittin on their hands?

See the problem with the huge lower bowl in the SF area is this. In my opinion, most lower seats in a stadium are filled with people who earn more cash. People who are larger earners tend to be less vocal at sporting events, and many only go to show status. The real loud and raucous fans sit in the middle sections at EVERY stadium I have ever been to. Now I have not been to EVERY stadium, and actually very few of the NFL's stadiums (GB, CHI, ARI, MIN) but each several times. Invariably the middle section, the section consisting of more middle class folks, is the loudest and most into the game, atleast from my experiences.

To wrap it up, SF has always been known for having a wine and cheese crowd who sometimes lack the enthusiasm that other teams fanbases display. The stadium design can go a long way towards changing that fact/perception, yet the current design only fosters that kind of crowd imo. We will see a big ol wine/cheese tasting like environment in that huge lower bowl, but those folks are not the REAL 49er fans, for the most part, and therefor the team looses what could be an audible advantage.

Again all, this is just my personal opinion. I am happy as a clam the team is likely getting a new stadium, I just wish the Yorks would have designed it with the hardcore and vocal fans in mind and not the corporations that they are going to sell those lower bowl tickets to.

This logic is so flawed I don't know where to begin. The stadium is designed with the largest lower bowl in the NFL, bringing as many fans as possible closer to the action with the best sightlines. Amazing how you want to turn this into a negative. Instead, you'd like the stadium to be designed with more "cheap" seats that are FARTHER from the action? Do you think Quest Field is loud because it's filled with cheap fans and cheap seats?

If, by your logic, there are so many "hardcore non cheese eating fans" just waiting to buy tickets, where have they been. We've had the lowest tickets prices in the NFL recently. And to classify all fans who can afford to pay a little extra for better seats as wine and cheese eaters is ridiculous. You know what makes for a loud, rowdy crowd? Wins. Yup, good ol' fashion winning.

The team has done exactly what you seem to be asking for: designed a stadium that will maximize crowd noise by bringing as many fans as possible as close to the field as possible. Sounds to me like your problem is not with the stadium, but with the fans themselves. I don't recall our "wine and cheese loving fans" being a problem when we were winning championships.

How is using terms such as mostly or generally equate to all?

Our wine and cheese eating fans have NEVER and I mean N E V E R been as roudy or raucous as even a KC or GB regular season game when we were winning championships so paaaalease.

Why does my opinion seem to infuriate you. It's the opinion of one guy on an internet forum. Not everyone is going to have the roseygood feelings opinion that you do, get over it.

What did I say that would make you think I was angry? My "roseygood feelings opinion" comes from looking at the facts. Your opinion, on the other hand is, well, whack. You keep complaining about the fans being hand sitters. So, how do you propose that the stadium solves this problem? Should we build a dome? Should we test fans for vocal strength before allowing them to buy season tickets? Seriously, explain how the current design does not encourage a rowdy fan experience? We might actually get somewhere if you start addressing the actual points I've made in previous posts instead of complaing about semantics.



[ Edited by 09etihW on Jun 4, 2009 at 12:47:12 ]

Poll is holding firm at about 3/4 loving the plan. That's well over even a 2/3 majority. Also reading many first hand converts based on seeing more info. Additionally less than 1/5 'hate it'. All in all the team has to be thrilled with this level of support.

There will always be detractors to any plan.

Originally posted by DJD:
Poll is holding firm at about 3/4 loving the plan. That's well over even a 2/3 majority. Also reading many first hand converts based on seeing more info. Additionally less than 1/5 'hate it'. All in all the team has to be thrilled with this level of support.

There will always be detractors to any plan.

So true - you could plop down any current stadium in the NFL at the site and there would be fans that find something to complain about.

A particularly amusing argument is: Our fans suck, so this new stadium is going to suck too.

Originally posted by 09etihW:
What did I say that would make you think I was angry? My "roseygood feelings opinion" comes from looking at the facts. Your opinion, on the other hand is, well, whack. You keep complaining about the fans being hand sitters. So, how do you propose that the stadium solves this problem? Should we build a dome? Should we test fans for vocal strength before allowing them to buy season tickets? Seriously, explain how the current design does not encourage a rowdy fan experience? We might actually get somewhere if you start addressing the actual points I've made in previous posts instead of complaing about semantics.

Meh...this one's better.


Seriously, though. I was one of the loudest detractors of the new stadium design but the thing's grown on me. That video helped. Sure, to me it may not be as beautiful as Qwest Field but really, no stadium in the league is. Beats the hell out of those spaceships they built in Dallas and AZ, that's for damn sure!

I'm on board now. Let's get that thing built!!!

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[ Edited by GeoffJames on Jun 4, 2009 at 13:28:23 ]

Originally posted by GeoffJames:
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Congratulations on Post #1.



[ Edited by 09etihW on Jun 4, 2009 at 13:32:10 ]

Originally posted by ninertico:

Originally posted by nekst:
The Seahawks have crowd noise and the Cardinals have the retractable roof. What do the 49ers have? A huge opening in the side of the stadium with a lot of luxury boxes? I guess we won't really know until the stadium is built...

I remember in the latest video about the stadium that it's supposed to be the loudest now due to design of the stadium. At least, that is what they say...

I don't remember hearing that in the latest video.

This is what I would have liked.



You'll have to excuse the field that is on it.

Would have been something like a modern Roman Colosseum. All it needs is Giant 9er God Statues.

~Ceadder