Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:

Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

This can't be serious. Trey has obviously struggled with the mental part of the game.

He's not talking about being late on reads due to inexperience, which even Brock did sometimes last year.

I thought his post was plenty clear he's talking about mental in terms of decision making.

Darnold has not corrected a severe turnover problem that dates back to college. The number of fumbles is staggering, as is the number of interceptions while under no pressure. If a guy can't throw to the right team with no one in his face, I don't trust him to take care of the ball period.

Trey never had that problem in college, and in fact was known for his ability to NOT turn it over. The exact opposite of Sam. Even as a raw rookie and young player, he wasn't making WTF decisions left and right.

Until Sam actually shows he can not be an idiot out there, despite all his experience, I'm trusting Trey over him to not hurt the team by giving the ball away.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

This can't be serious. Trey has obviously struggled with the mental part of the game.

He's not talking about being late on reads due to inexperience, which even Brock did sometimes last year.

I thought his post was plenty clear he's talking about mental in terms of decision making.

Darnold has not corrected a severe turnover problem that dates back to college. The number of fumbles is staggering, as is the number of interceptions while under no pressure. If a guy can't throw to the right team with no one in his face, I don't trust him to take care of the ball period.

Trey never had that problem in college, and in fact was known for his ability to NOT turn it over. The exact opposite of Sam. Even as a raw rookie and young player, he wasn't making WTF decisions left and right.

Until Sam actually shows he can not be an idiot out there, despite all his experience, I'm trusting Trey over him to not hurt the team by giving the ball away.

let's go to Kyle Shanahan on the subject:

"I don't think he's always been in the best situations, which is tough for quarterbacks. It's tough for all players, but it is one position, and it depends on the other 10 guys around you, too.

"And I think Sam has played and done some really good things in this league, but hasn't won a ton of games and been thrown in some situations where you're going to keep both teams in the game because you got to keep slinging that ball and give your team a chance to win. And so, you don't always have the best stats, but you see the ability. And he's always had that ability since his first year in college when we started watching him, and there's no reason he can't do it."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle-shanahan-says-new-49ers-qb-sam-darnold-has-as-good-of-a-skillset-as-there-is/

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

This can't be serious. Trey has obviously struggled with the mental part of the game.

Sometimes it feels like I'm living on a different planet with those takes.

Lance has the mental part down? It's only the physical aspect? This is like a complete 180 from everything that's been said.

Feel free to show me plays where Trey looked fooled by opposing defenses and threw it right to the defender. His struggles have been experience related.

Not realizing the speed of NFL defenders and not looking someone off enough. His interceptions have all been either poor mechanics/throws or inability to look off Jackson in Chicago. They were all right reads and poor execution.

This is from some guy named Steve Young(not sure what he knows about QBing in the NFL)

"Trey, as a young player, is processing as well as anybody," Young said. "He can understand what's happening and he can figure out who (the open receiver) is. And that's a real talent. … The challenge for Trey is that, once he knows (where to throw it) — how to deliver it. And that's another great talent that you have to have and develop."

But SmokyJoe and JoseCortez on the webzone think Trey doesn't have the mental part down so Young has clearly had too many concussions.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

This can't be serious. Trey has obviously struggled with the mental part of the game.

He's not talking about being late on reads due to inexperience, which even Brock did sometimes last year.

I thought his post was plenty clear he's talking about mental in terms of decision making.

Darnold has not corrected a severe turnover problem that dates back to college. The number of fumbles is staggering, as is the number of interceptions while under no pressure. If a guy can't throw to the right team with no one in his face, I don't trust him to take care of the ball period.

Trey never had that problem in college, and in fact was known for his ability to NOT turn it over. The exact opposite of Sam. Even as a raw rookie and young player, he wasn't making WTF decisions left and right.

Until Sam actually shows he can not be an idiot out there, despite all his experience, I'm trusting Trey over him to not hurt the team by giving the ball away.

let's go to Kyle Shanahan on the subject:

"I don't think he's always been in the best situations, which is tough for quarterbacks. It's tough for all players, but it is one position, and it depends on the other 10 guys around you, too.

"And I think Sam has played and done some really good things in this league, but hasn't won a ton of games and been thrown in some situations where you're going to keep both teams in the game because you got to keep slinging that ball and give your team a chance to win. And so, you don't always have the best stats, but you see the ability. And he's always had that ability since his first year in college when we started watching him, and there's no reason he can't do it."

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/kyle-shanahan-says-new-49ers-qb-sam-darnold-has-as-good-of-a-skillset-as-there-is/

Maybe he can do it but 55 game sample size is still substantial. As I said above you can't guarantee when/if he's playing that he will be getting a team that's going to be playing at the high level they're capable of whether due to injuries or sloppy play(unless we're really smoking that good stuff and think the team would play different for Brock/Sam than they would for Trey)

Also Shanahan hyping up a free agent signing isn't going to wipe away what actually happened. Kyle hasn't exactly been spot on every evaluation he's made - apparently including Trey Lance but we think this is the one that he nails? Brock Purdy wasn't even his guy and he may be our best QB.

Kyle likes his shiny new toys until they do a couple of things wrong and then in the dog house they go. As a coach he always thinks he can put a QB in a better situation but as he found out with most QBs he's had here maybe outside of Brock - you can't read the field for them, you can't make the throw for them. Overall clearly his scheme helps and it should help Sam but can it help enough that in a key moment in the game where the playcall for the first read is defended well, can Sam make the right decision? Or will he revert back to turnover guy and hurt us?

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

This can't be serious. Trey has obviously struggled with the mental part of the game.

He's not talking about being late on reads due to inexperience, which even Brock did sometimes last year.

I thought his post was plenty clear he's talking about mental in terms of decision making.

Darnold has not corrected a severe turnover problem that dates back to college. The number of fumbles is staggering, as is the number of interceptions while under no pressure. If a guy can't throw to the right team with no one in his face, I don't trust him to take care of the ball period.

Trey never had that problem in college, and in fact was known for his ability to NOT turn it over. The exact opposite of Sam. Even as a raw rookie and young player, he wasn't making WTF decisions left and right.

Until Sam actually shows he can not be an idiot out there, despite all his experience, I'm trusting Trey over him to not hurt the team by giving the ball away.

They love to latch on to some hyperbole in a post and switch up the narrative.

Originally posted by genus49:
Maybe he can do it but 55 game sample size is still substantial. As I said above you can't guarantee when/if he's playing that he will be getting a team that's going to be playing at the high level they're capable of whether due to injuries or sloppy play(unless we're really smoking that good stuff and think the team would play different for Brock/Sam than they would for Trey)

Also Shanahan hyping up a free agent signing isn't going to wipe away what actually happened. Kyle hasn't exactly been spot on every evaluation he's made - apparently including Trey Lance but we think this is the one that he nails? Brock Purdy wasn't even his guy and he may be our best QB.

Kyle likes his shiny new toys until they do a couple of things wrong and then in the dog house they go. As a coach he always thinks he can put a QB in a better situation but as he found out with most QBs he's had here maybe outside of Brock - you can't read the field for them, you can't make the throw for them. Overall clearly his scheme helps and it should help Sam but can it help enough that in a key moment in the game where the playcall for the first read is defended well, can Sam make the right decision? Or will he revert back to turnover guy and hurt us?

You act like the 55 games were historically bad in turnovers, here are some numbers

this is INT percentage

Geno with NYJ 4.2
Steve Young with Tampa 4.2
Darnold with NYJ 3.2
Darnold with CAR 2.9
Darnold last season 2.1
League leader last year 1.1 (D. Jones)
Trey is 2.9

Notice TL has the same INT percent, as Darnold did in Carolina. Is TL better than Sam at protecting the football?

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:
Maybe he can do it but 55 game sample size is still substantial. As I said above you can't guarantee when/if he's playing that he will be getting a team that's going to be playing at the high level they're capable of whether due to injuries or sloppy play(unless we're really smoking that good stuff and think the team would play different for Brock/Sam than they would for Trey)

Also Shanahan hyping up a free agent signing isn't going to wipe away what actually happened. Kyle hasn't exactly been spot on every evaluation he's made - apparently including Trey Lance but we think this is the one that he nails? Brock Purdy wasn't even his guy and he may be our best QB.

Kyle likes his shiny new toys until they do a couple of things wrong and then in the dog house they go. As a coach he always thinks he can put a QB in a better situation but as he found out with most QBs he's had here maybe outside of Brock - you can't read the field for them, you can't make the throw for them. Overall clearly his scheme helps and it should help Sam but can it help enough that in a key moment in the game where the playcall for the first read is defended well, can Sam make the right decision? Or will he revert back to turnover guy and hurt us?

You act like the 55 games were historically bad in turnovers, here are some numbers

this is INT percentage

Geno with NYJ 4.2
Steve Young with Tampa 4.2
Darnold with NYJ 3.2
Darnold with CAR 2.9
Darnold last season 2.1
League leader last year 1.1 (D. Jones)
Trey is 2.9

Notice TL has the same INT percent, as Darnold did in Carolina. Is TL better than Sam at protecting the football?

Add the fumbles...for some reason those keep being swept under the rug when talking turnover plays by Darnold vs other QBs. Does a fumble not count the same as an interception now?

Man we need football to start. I want to talk football, but I'm tired of all the talking in circles about who should be QB. With our injury luck, we are going to need 2, maybe even 3 guys to step up again, so I hope nobody is getting really attached to 1 guy. I'm really glad Brock stepped up and did so well, and I hope he continues to do so if he can carry us to #6. It really is tough to no get hung up on potential with Trey though. If everything clicked for him and he became Mahomes adjacent that was capable of carrying the offense when things seem to fall apart(ie any playoff exit in recent memory), I know none of you Brock stans would still be standing on the table for Brock. I do understand though that you can't keep hoping things pan out with the depth of our roster right now, so I'm on the Brock train and hope he can get and stay healthy.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
You act like the 55 games were historically bad in turnovers, here are some numbers

this is INT percentage

Geno with NYJ 4.2
Steve Young with Tampa 4.2
Darnold with NYJ 3.2
Darnold with CAR 2.9
Darnold last season 2.1
League leader last year 1.1 (D. Jones)
Trey is 2.9

Notice TL has the same INT percent, as Darnold did in Carolina. Is TL better than Sam at protecting the football?

Yeah, Trey has a limited amount of snaps but he hasn't been great at protecting the ball either. Specifically in the passing game.

I think he does a job of protecting the ball when he runs. His interceptions the year he won the chip, is a great feat, but to me - it shines a big light on the wide open plays and how they didn't rely on the pass game, at all. Then he plays one game in Covid year and throws a pick. Then In the NFL - he's had an INT every game, and numerous that coulda been picked (so did Purdy) and only one game where he got touchdowns (Texans). It's concerning but a small sample size, I just look at it as an issue that can be fixed in time but a lot of time. Just tells me that he is a game manager and you don't want the game on his shoulders, at least right now.

i don't think lance or darnold are good at not turning it over. Darnold is worse, IMO. Darnold has a ton of fumbles and INT regardless of a good situation or not. It's a lot.

i personally don't want to see either behind center this year. Makes me uncomfortable. If either are, I'll support them for sure, just be uneasy.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:
Maybe he can do it but 55 game sample size is still substantial. As I said above you can't guarantee when/if he's playing that he will be getting a team that's going to be playing at the high level they're capable of whether due to injuries or sloppy play(unless we're really smoking that good stuff and think the team would play different for Brock/Sam than they would for Trey)

Also Shanahan hyping up a free agent signing isn't going to wipe away what actually happened. Kyle hasn't exactly been spot on every evaluation he's made - apparently including Trey Lance but we think this is the one that he nails? Brock Purdy wasn't even his guy and he may be our best QB.

Kyle likes his shiny new toys until they do a couple of things wrong and then in the dog house they go. As a coach he always thinks he can put a QB in a better situation but as he found out with most QBs he's had here maybe outside of Brock - you can't read the field for them, you can't make the throw for them. Overall clearly his scheme helps and it should help Sam but can it help enough that in a key moment in the game where the playcall for the first read is defended well, can Sam make the right decision? Or will he revert back to turnover guy and hurt us?

You act like the 55 games were historically bad in turnovers, here are some numbers

this is INT percentage

Geno with NYJ 4.2
Steve Young with Tampa 4.2
Darnold with NYJ 3.2
Darnold with CAR 2.9
Darnold last season 2.1
League leader last year 1.1 (D. Jones)
Trey is 2.9

Notice TL has the same INT percent, as Darnold did in Carolina. Is TL better than Sam at protecting the football?

Add the fumbles...for some reason those keep being swept under the rug when talking turnover plays by Darnold vs other QBs. Does a fumble not count the same as an interception now?

A fumble that isn't lost does not count the same as an interception, no. Maybe stop throwing out total fumbles stats and trying to make it sound like they are all turnovers. Being honest would be a good start.

Regarding fumbles (total); Darnold has 35 in his 56 games played which is .625 per game. Mahomes has 31 in his 80 games played (.3875 per game). That's a differerence of .2375 per game or about 4 per season. In terms of fumbles lost, Darnold has 13 in 56 games (.23 per game) and Mahomes has 10 in 80 games (.125), a difference of .1 per game or less than 2 per season.

Fumbles (total or lost) is simply not a significant enough difference with Darnold to use that as a knock against him.

It is impossible despite any argument presented to know what Trey is. Yeah, I get the he has gotten injured when it was his time to go but that is a fluke. I'm on the Purdy train, ir took me a couple of months to get there but he is in the same boat. He has had an awesome start but that needs to be sustained for an entire year and deep into playoffs. Hell, probably two years.

Trey is coming up a different way. He didn't have all the college games on his resume. It does not mean that with long term play, like a year, that he could match or exceed Brock.

I think it's a bit of a crappy situation honestly, you can only know what you have by playing. You can't play both at once. I hope Brock is the next 49er QB God. It's been a hell of a long time and we are ready to get off this carousel, but my fear is Trey sits again, gets frustrated and demands trade or it's mutual and he lands somewhere and turns out to be a total stud after one to two years play. I get that you can't make decisions based on what if but Kyle really better know what he is doing here. Glad I'm not the one making that decision.

Trey is STILL a good guy and would be a valued member on any team.

Originally posted by Furlow:
So when it's Trey Lance and Robbie Anderson, it matters who's around you and in the game playing. When it's Darnold, it doesn't and he should elevate himself. Got it.

Having 2 1000 yard receivers isn't having to elevate himself. Keep repeating the narrative over and over won't make it true.

Teddy Bridgewater did it. You must think Teddy would be a superstar here.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
He's not talking about being late on reads due to inexperience, which even Brock did sometimes last year.

I thought his post was plenty clear he's talking about mental in terms of decision making.

Darnold has not corrected a severe turnover problem that dates back to college. The number of fumbles is staggering, as is the number of interceptions while under no pressure. If a guy can't throw to the right team with no one in his face, I don't trust him to take care of the ball period.

Trey never had that problem in college, and in fact was known for his ability to NOT turn it over. The exact opposite of Sam. Even as a raw rookie and young player, he wasn't making WTF decisions left and right.

Until Sam actually shows he can not be an idiot out there, despite all his experience, I'm trusting Trey over him to not hurt the team by giving the ball away.

That's because you think a QB besides Trey Lance actually has some responsibility for his own bad play.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
So when it's Trey Lance and Robbie Anderson, it matters who's around you and in the game playing. When it's Darnold, it doesn't and he should elevate himself. Got it.

Having 2 1000 yard receivers isn't having to elevate himself. Keep repeating the narrative over and over won't make it true.

Teddy Bridgewater did it. You must think Teddy would be a superstar here.

How many times do I have to say this? Darnold only played a handful of games with CMC and/or Moore. When he did, he played very well. Anderson had one 1,000 yard season; so you calling him a "1000 yard WR" is absurd. He completely fell off the map after that one year with Teddy. And you can't blame Darnold because Anderson didn't do much with Baker either and basically nothing last year in Arizona.

Originally posted by genus49:
Feel free to show me plays where Trey looked fooled by opposing defenses and threw it right to the defender. His struggles have been experience related.

Not realizing the speed of NFL defenders and not looking someone off enough. His interceptions have all been either poor mechanics/throws or inability to look off Jackson in Chicago. They were all right reads and poor execution.

This is from some guy named Steve Young(not sure what he knows about QBing in the NFL)

"Trey, as a young player, is processing as well as anybody," Young said. "He can understand what's happening and he can figure out who (the open receiver) is. And that's a real talent. … The challenge for Trey is that, once he knows (where to throw it) — how to deliver it. And that's another great talent that you have to have and develop."

But SmokyJoe and JoseCortez on the webzone think Trey doesn't have the mental part down so Young has clearly had too many concussions.

There's not really a point in linking plays when you seemingly don't understand what it is you're seeing. A perfect example was the previous discussion about his interception against the Texans, which you touch on indirectly here, and your description of what went wrong on the play being that Trey simply underthrew the receiver. No mention of the fact that he was staring down his target bringing defenders into the play before he even finished his playaction fake, or that the defender was right in the middle of his passing lane and he made the bad decision to throw it anyway under zero pressure with a clear path to escape. This was pointed out to you in that conversation by more than one poster and you still couldn't acknowledge it.

His first interception against the Cardinals was another example of a bad decision. He passed on Benjamin when he was open and had a lane to throw the ball. You could see Benjamin at the end of his route standing there in space with his hands up. Lance is staring at him the whole way and passes on the opening, jumps through the pocket and forces an off balance throw to Benjamin that sails 10 yards over his head right to a defender. That's a mental and physical mistake, of which Lance has made plenty.

You can see Lance failing to pull the trigger on open primary reads on the simplest of routes in all of his performances. He hesitates in both the pass and run game. He rushes and bails at the sight of pressure at times.

You want to chalk that up to inexperience… that makes perfect sense. Maybe he improves with consistent playing time. But to think Trey doesn't struggle with decision making and the mental side of executing even the most basic of plays is absurd. He has flashed the ability to properly execute the offense from both a physical and mental ability, at best. There's nothing consistent there, yet you want to claim he has the mental side 'down'.