Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
You do realize the Panthers had different offensive coordinators those years, right? I'm sure many other differences as well. Do I really need to do a deep dive into that and embarrass you again like earlier today? You keep spouting off nonsense without doing a lick of research beyond basic stats for the season. It's weak.

NARRATIVE

Same coordinator actually. Crack job researching.

LT, RG and TE were different but the guys were either hurt or ineffective so they were all a wash between 2020 and 2021.

Teddy was the one that had both Mac and DJ Moore for less games then Sam/Cam.

DJ Moore 2020 66 1193 4 in 15 games 19 20+ catches
Robbie Anderson 2020 95 1096 3 in 16 games 16 20+ catches

DJ Moore 2021 93 1157 4 in 17 games 16 20+ catches
Robbie Anderson 2021 53 519 5 in 17 games 3 20+ catches

20 point difference in QBR and QB rating and clear differences in player performance.

Embarrassing indeed.

See post above. Also there's enough evidence in your own post that the Panthers had a dropoff in 2021. Unless you want to keep clinging to Robbie Anderson as a "functional NFL starter" lol.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
FFS, I haven't given Darnold a pass on anything. I think he could be a better short term option than Lance and understand why the team signed him to compete for QB2. I haven't argued anything beyond that and have specifically said I thought the team would be in trouble if we had to rely on either of the two guys for the bulk of the season. There's a gigantic gap between being a capable backup/spot starter and a better option than Trey Lance, and comparing the guy to some of the greatest players who ever played the position.

Separate from that I responded to and agreed with another poster who thought your summary of the beginning of Montana and Brady's career wasn't a very good one, and I explained why to you already… your goalpost shifting aside.

Nah, Lance is on track like montana or Brady, otherwise you're a hater. Lol anyone watching Lance can't possibly think he's on the same track as those guys…no one watching Lance can think he's as good as those guys. Lmao

lance has enough problems, most he can over come, stop comparing him to all time greats and let him see what he grows into

Bro they compared him to Peyton Manning too lol.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
note to self, bookmark this post, when ppl say, we didn't miss out on any opportunity cost, with the Lance pick
this is how you can flex your ones folks

I mean sure,...but also bookmark that the coach has built the team into a yearly contender,...and that every other team in the league has a current "What If" hindsight story as well that means diddly squat.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
FFS, I haven't given Darnold a pass on anything. I think he could be a better short term option than Lance and understand why the team signed him to compete for QB2. I haven't argued anything beyond that and have specifically said I thought the team would be in trouble if we had to rely on either of the two guys for the bulk of the season. There's a gigantic gap between being a capable backup/spot starter and a better option than Trey Lance, and comparing the guy to some of the greatest players who ever played the position.

Separate from that I responded to and agreed with another poster who thought your summary of the beginning of Montana and Brady's career wasn't a very good one, and I explained why to you already… your goalpost shifting aside.

Nah, Lance is on track like montana or Brady, otherwise you're a hater. Lol anyone watching Lance can't possibly think he's on the same track as those guys…no one watching Lance can think he's as good as those guys. Lmao

lance has enough problems, most he can over come, stop comparing him to all time greats and let him see what he grows into

You guys can't even follow a simple comparison…the point wasn't even brought up with Lance in mind but Darnold but go and have your group hug.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
FFS, I haven't given Darnold a pass on anything. I think he could be a better short term option than Lance and understand why the team signed him to compete for QB2. I haven't argued anything beyond that and have specifically said I thought the team would be in trouble if we had to rely on either of the two guys for the bulk of the season. There's a gigantic gap between being a capable backup/spot starter and a better option than Trey Lance, and comparing the guy to some of the greatest players who ever played the position.

Separate from that I responded to and agreed with another poster who thought your summary of the beginning of Montana and Brady's career wasn't a very good one, and I explained why to you already… your goalpost shifting aside.

Nah, Lance is on track like montana or Brady, otherwise you're a hater. Lol anyone watching Lance can't possibly think he's on the same track as those guys…no one watching Lance can think he's as good as those guys. Lmao

lance has enough problems, most he can over come, stop comparing him to all time greats and let him see what he grows into

Bro they compared him to Peyton Manning too lol.

You guys share a brain or something?

The point was simple the QBs who are special play well regardless of the talent around them outside of rare occasions where the team around them is simply straight trash.

Darnold's so called lack of talent that's used as an excuse for him doesn't come close to those levels.

You guys sit back and excuse away all of his bad play to bad coaching and talent and downplay anything good Lance has done. Don't blame everyone else who sees through your hypocrisy and double standards.

Originally posted by Furlow:
He's been comparing Teddy to Darnold in 2022. Ben McAdoo was the OC in 2022. Not to mention the many other changes over a 2 year span. But yes, even year over year 2020 to 2021 is ridiculous to say "the same team."

If by "hive" you mean someone who thinks Darnold can succeed here, I'll bite (although you clearly mean something else). Who the hell said anything about being a stud? Maybe one year is all Darnold wanted if it wasn't going to be starter money. I did read reports that he took less to come here.

Well clearly they weren't the same team as they clearly downgraded at QB.

Originally posted by Furlow:
See post above. Also there's enough evidence in your own post that the Panthers had a dropoff in 2021. Unless you want to keep clinging to Robbie Anderson as a "functional NFL starter" lol.

4 year average of 65 892 5 seems pretty functional to me when your QBs are Josh McCown Bryce Petty, Sam Darnold, Trevor Siemian, and Teddy Bridgewater. Fact that he has gone all Antonio Brown now doesn't change that.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
See post above. Also there's enough evidence in your own post that the Panthers had a dropoff in 2021. Unless you want to keep clinging to Robbie Anderson as a "functional NFL starter" lol.

4 year average of 65 892 5 seems pretty functional to me when your QBs are Josh McCown Bryce Petty, Sam Darnold, Trevor Siemian, and Teddy Bridgewater. Fact that he has gone all Antonio Brown now doesn't change that.

So when it's Trey Lance and Robbie Anderson, it matters who's around you and in the game playing. When it's Darnold, it doesn't and he should elevate himself. Got it.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
4eva, this post is terrible. you merely respond to all my posts, with some disingenuous Darnold nonsense. It is tiring.

With Darnold, it's not a question of development. It's his supporting cast, coaching, etc. I don't feel he needs much development. He has nearly as many starts as JG. He just needs an OL and receivers and some good play calls.

If Darnold was drafted into this org and struggled like he did in NYJ then yeah there wouldn't be as much optimism that he could turn it around, why would there be? I would probably say well it's on him, cuz the opportunity in SF was there for the taking. We have it good. If Darnold can't hack it here in SF, he probably should be a career backup, or a USFL starter.

I guess you're good with the turnovers or the bad pocket presence?

Interesting...

KS is betting it was more his situation, than his mechanics. I agree. KS is on record here. Time will tell. There would be no reason to be a turnover factory on the 2023 49ers for TL or anyone. On the 2005 49ers, yes. These 49ers, no.

Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
See post above. Also there's enough evidence in your own post that the Panthers had a dropoff in 2021. Unless you want to keep clinging to Robbie Anderson as a "functional NFL starter" lol.

4 year average of 65 892 5 seems pretty functional to me when your QBs are Josh McCown Bryce Petty, Sam Darnold, Trevor Siemian, and Teddy Bridgewater. Fact that he has gone all Antonio Brown now doesn't change that.

So when it's Trey Lance and Robbie Anderson, it matters who's around you and in the game playing. When it's Darnold, it doesn't and he should elevate himself. Got it.

No consistency between QB/WR is rarely a plus for either position but the idea that Anderson is a scrub is comical.

Even taking into account his fall off last season he's not far away from Aiyuk in terms of per season averages.

Aiyuk 863 yards 13.3 YPR 6 TD per season
Anderson 708 yards 13.2 YPR 4 TD per season

And if you look at just his first 3 seasons to compare to Aiyuk's 3 it's even closer

760 14.6 YPR 5 TD.

Now obviously Aiyuk is a much better player and will be proving that soon but the point is Anderson is no scrub regardless of how last 2 seasons went for him. Pointing out the QBs he played with just shows he's not exactly playing with the best of the best.

As far as elevating himself...nobody is asking him to carry the team but when we're hearing all this praise "greatest thrower of the football the team had" and "he's super talented and just needs good coaching/talent" then that type of stuff should've come out a lot more than it did.

Alex Smith turned his career around basically becoming a game manager, I've seen several people point to Alex Smith for the Darnold situation and yet Darnold's weaknesses are total anti game manager and his strengths are also not suited for game managing. So it's a tough sell imo. But we'll see what happens. He's a 49er until otherwise so I wish him a ton of success...but I would prefer his success as a 49er comes similar to Jimmy G's success as a Patriot. Winning a SB as a backup.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
See post above. Also there's enough evidence in your own post that the Panthers had a dropoff in 2021. Unless you want to keep clinging to Robbie Anderson as a "functional NFL starter" lol.

4 year average of 65 892 5 seems pretty functional to me when your QBs are Josh McCown Bryce Petty, Sam Darnold, Trevor Siemian, and Teddy Bridgewater. Fact that he has gone all Antonio Brown now doesn't change that.

So when it's Trey Lance and Robbie Anderson, it matters who's around you and in the game playing. When it's Darnold, it doesn't and he should elevate himself. Got it.

No consistency between QB/WR is rarely a plus for either position but the idea that Anderson is a scrub is comical.

Even taking into account his fall off last season he's not far away from Aiyuk in terms of per season averages.

Aiyuk 863 yards 13.3 YPR 6 TD per season
Anderson 708 yards 13.2 YPR 4 TD per season

And if you look at just his first 3 seasons to compare to Aiyuk's 3 it's even closer

760 14.6 YPR 5 TD.

Now obviously Aiyuk is a much better player and will be proving that soon but the point is Anderson is no scrub regardless of how last 2 seasons went for him. Pointing out the QBs he played with just shows he's not exactly playing with the best of the best.

As far as elevating himself...nobody is asking him to carry the team but when we're hearing all this praise "greatest thrower of the football the team had" and "he's super talented and just needs good coaching/talent" then that type of stuff should've come out a lot more than it did.

Alex Smith turned his career around basically becoming a game manager, I've seen several people point to Alex Smith for the Darnold situation and yet Darnold's weaknesses are total anti game manager and his strengths are also not suited for game managing. So it's a tough sell imo. But we'll see what happens. He's a 49er until otherwise so I wish him a ton of success...but I would prefer his success as a 49er comes similar to Jimmy G's success as a Patriot. Winning a SB as a backup.

No one was comparing Anderson and Aiyuk's careers, cool story though. The point he was making was that Darnold was surrounded by weapons and had a good defense in Carolina. He came up with CMC (who Darnold only played 4 games with), Moore, and Anderson. Anderson had one good year, the rest was just meh, and the past two years has totally fallen off. To use him as a comparison to the 49ers weapons is absurd.

The point about Darnold only having to manage the game is about how good our roster is top to bottom, the play calling, etc. He won't NEED to do much in order to be successful and proficient here. Saying he could turn into a game manager was nothing about his ability.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
4eva, this post is terrible. you merely respond to all my posts, with some disingenuous Darnold nonsense. It is tiring.

With Darnold, it's not a question of development. It's his supporting cast, coaching, etc. I don't feel he needs much development. He has nearly as many starts as JG. He just needs an OL and receivers and some good play calls.

If Darnold was drafted into this org and struggled like he did in NYJ then yeah there wouldn't be as much optimism that he could turn it around, why would there be? I would probably say well it's on him, cuz the opportunity in SF was there for the taking. We have it good. If Darnold can't hack it here in SF, he probably should be a career backup, or a USFL starter.

I guess you're good with the turnovers or the bad pocket presence?

Interesting...

KS is betting it was more his situation, than his mechanics. I agree. KS is on record here. Time will tell. There would be no reason to be a turnover factory on the 2023 49ers for TL or anyone. On the 2005 49ers, yes. These 49ers, no.

Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

I don't think it's his decision making, it's his situation, which just got radically upgraded, and we will see to what extent that helps him thrive. Trey has a lot to work on imo. He doesn't look as natural or as accurate playing the position to me. Part of offseason tho is these guys will be different guys in August, than we last saw them, so it's about who put in the work during the offseason.

Originally posted by genus49:
Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

This can't be serious. Trey has obviously struggled with the mental part of the game.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Missed this post the other day. If his mechanics aren't the issue and it's his decision making...why do you think that's an easier fix for him to make better decisions than it is for Trey to work on his mechanics?

Personally I would think a player who has physical things to work on has a better chance of fixing their mistakes long term than someone who has struggled with the mental part of the game.

This can't be serious. Trey has obviously struggled with the mental part of the game.

Sometimes it feels like I'm living on a different planet with those takes.

Lance has the mental part down? It's only the physical aspect? This is like a complete 180 from everything that's been said.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
See post above. Also there's enough evidence in your own post that the Panthers had a dropoff in 2021. Unless you want to keep clinging to Robbie Anderson as a "functional NFL starter" lol.

4 year average of 65 892 5 seems pretty functional to me when your QBs are Josh McCown Bryce Petty, Sam Darnold, Trevor Siemian, and Teddy Bridgewater. Fact that he has gone all Antonio Brown now doesn't change that.

So when it's Trey Lance and Robbie Anderson, it matters who's around you and in the game playing. When it's Darnold, it doesn't and he should elevate himself. Got it.

No consistency between QB/WR is rarely a plus for either position but the idea that Anderson is a scrub is comical.

Even taking into account his fall off last season he's not far away from Aiyuk in terms of per season averages.

Aiyuk 863 yards 13.3 YPR 6 TD per season
Anderson 708 yards 13.2 YPR 4 TD per season

And if you look at just his first 3 seasons to compare to Aiyuk's 3 it's even closer

760 14.6 YPR 5 TD.

Now obviously Aiyuk is a much better player and will be proving that soon but the point is Anderson is no scrub regardless of how last 2 seasons went for him. Pointing out the QBs he played with just shows he's not exactly playing with the best of the best.

As far as elevating himself...nobody is asking him to carry the team but when we're hearing all this praise "greatest thrower of the football the team had" and "he's super talented and just needs good coaching/talent" then that type of stuff should've come out a lot more than it did.

Alex Smith turned his career around basically becoming a game manager, I've seen several people point to Alex Smith for the Darnold situation and yet Darnold's weaknesses are total anti game manager and his strengths are also not suited for game managing. So it's a tough sell imo. But we'll see what happens. He's a 49er until otherwise so I wish him a ton of success...but I would prefer his success as a 49er comes similar to Jimmy G's success as a Patriot. Winning a SB as a backup.

No one was comparing Anderson and Aiyuk's careers, cool story though. The point he was making was that Darnold was surrounded by weapons and had a good defense in Carolina. He came up with CMC (who Darnold only played 4 games with), Moore, and Anderson. Anderson had one good year, the rest was just meh, and the past two years has totally fallen off. To use him as a comparison to the 49ers weapons is absurd.

The point about Darnold only having to manage the game is about how good our roster is top to bottom, the play calling, etc. He won't NEED to do much in order to be successful and proficient here. Saying he could turn into a game manager was nothing about his ability.

Point he was making that Darnold wasn't in an Alex Smith/Steve Young type of situation where the talent around him was non existent.

I understand the idea people have when it comes to Darnold and this roster. The roster is so good that he basically just has to not F up too bad and we'll be good.

Thing is...this was the case with Trey as well but what happened in the games where we lost? Either injuries at RB, no Kittle, bad penalties, drops...basically the roster didn't play up to their talent.

Now do we really put that on Trey? I think some people tried to go so far to crazy town that they implied the team didn't play as hard for the kid. That's laughable. So despite the talent we have somehow the idea of "well what can Trey look like with better talent like Kittle, CMC out there with him or a healthy Mitchell and playcalling that didn't run him as a FB bulk of the game" seems crazy for some. But the same thought for Sam Darnold makes perfect sense.

That's what I struggle with.