Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
The picks to get Lance are irrelevant. Had we not lucked out on Purdy, Lance would be the starter this year and suffer the growing pains he should have suffered last year. But we got lucky with the last pick in the draft.

The fact that we potentially got a top ten guy with the last pick in the draft tells you it's pointless to wonder "what if" on picks we didn't ever even have a chance to use. And maybe we wouldn't have even selected Purdy if we didn't spend capital on Lance, phasing Garoppolo out the door and needing a replacement for him. Maybe Jimmy G would have signed an extension and we'd be stuck another 5 years with almost good enough at the QB position.

It's very hard to buy this opinion given that he's competing for the backup job. Given their actions and the team's position, they likely would have been a bigger player in the free agent/trade market. Not less so.

We're assuming anything would have worked out the same way in the first place. Had Purdy not shown himself to be very good, the team could have just as well decided they drafted a guy and were willing to ride it out and see what he could do with some development. Trey Lance's development was short circuited by Brock Purdy, not by Trey Lance.

Trey's development has been short circuited by his injuries. Brock being a baller has just bailed the team out. Trey's lack of development isn't anyone's fault, injuries have a way of happening in the NFL. Another reason we shouldn't try to make a running qb out of him. It's time to face reality, he is not the dynamic runner we thought he was. I'm as guilty as the next guy of overestimating his running ability. The NFL defenses are much quicker than his college competition. His best bet is to learn to be much more accurate and save the running for escaping the pocket and cases where the defense bails into man and leaves a huge hole in the defense.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Trey's development has been short circuited by his injuries. Brock being a baller has just bailed the team out. Trey's lack of development isn't anyone's fault, injuries have a way of happening in the NFL. Another reason we shouldn't try to make a running qb out of him. It's time to face reality, he is not the dynamic runner we thought he was. I'm as guilty as the next guy of overestimating his running ability. The NFL defenses are much quicker than his college competition. His best bet is to learn to be much more accurate and save the running for escaping the pocket and cases where the defense bails into man and leaves a huge hole in the defense.

He's more of a project as a passer than they thought he was is the more likely reality.

Keep in mind when he was drafted there were reports that the organization felt he was more pro ready than Mac Jones. We don't have to take those reports as gospel truth without corroboration but we also have the fact that they picked Trey over an obviously superior athlete in Fields.

Kyle effectively running him into the ground isn't necessarily an indicator that he thought he was a better runner than he was. It just indicates that was what Kyle thought was the best way to attack defenses with him. Kyle cares about winning games… we know that.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Darnold is not innocent in this whole thing. At the end of the day, he didn't get it done. It's just difficult to really hold too much of it against him, in my opinion, because he hasn't been put in many situations where it was easy to really determine if he has the proper makings.

for example, If the play caller is predictable and the talent is bad to average - that's a tough position to be in as a Qb. But you're still expected to make stuff work - so he ends up trying to over compensate, forcing balls, etc which is ends up bad. So i look at it as he responded poorly to a poor situation.

does that make sense? It's like he made a bad choice off of someone else's bad choice. It all compounds. So no, darnold isn't innocent but it's also understandable why a young talented QB like him struggled.

i always mention Lawrence cause he's a supreme talent and when he was put out there with bad talent and even worse coaching - he was awful too and made a ton of boneheaded mistakes.

Cmac DJ Moore and Robby Anderson plus a good D isn't bad to average. Obviously Rhule deserves blame too but all his struggles aren't on Rhule. No different than blaming all of Wilson struggles last year on Hackett. Of course the pro Wilson folk are doing that very thing.

To magically think all it will take for Sam is a new environment to suddenly become a legit NFL starter reeks of a narrative. Perhaps in time.

CMC was traded (10-21-22) before Darnold even played last season (11-27-22).

CMC and Darnold were both injured at times and missed multiple game during the 2021 season. They did play 4 games together (with DJ Moore as well), and the Panthers were 3-1 in those games. Darnold's passer rating in those games was 102, 99.1, 95.7, and 26.3 (24-6 loss to the Patriots).

Darnold played in 6 games last season, all games that DJ Moore played in (again, no CMC because he was already traded to the Niners). The Panthers went 4-2 in those games. Darnold had passer ratings of 103.8, 85.4, 108.1, 121.4, 108.1, and 2.8 (he got injured and didn't finish the game).

Robby Anderson? Lol come on now.

2021 Panthers ranked 21st in points allowed, 2022 they ranked 19th in points allowed. 2021 they were very good in yards and yards per play (top 5 in both) but in 2022 they dropped to 22nd/16th in each.

Let's not act like they are anywhere close to the 49ers in terms of offensive weapons, defensive talent/strength, or play calling. But if your argument is that Darnold plays well when he has weapons at RB and WR, we agree.

That is the only "narrative" here. What is yours?

Lmao…I hope you stretched before this heavy lifting excuse session.

2.8 QB Rating in a win and we're telling everyone how poor Sam was surrounded by bums. Btw he played 100% snaps in that game so find another way to clean up that disaster(hint just go to the "he got the win in the end" narrative which seems popular)

In 2021 the teams Darnold beat with CMC were

Jets - 32nd ranked D
saints - 7th ranked D(this was definitely the most impressive win) I remember that game being a wtf situation since Saints embarrassed the Packers week 1 and then Winston totally crapped the bed in this one and turned the ball over like crazy but a big performance for Darnold and CMC was front and center for it, so was DJ Moore. Guys who apparently aren't that good.
Texans - 31st ranked D

So one big game vs a good defense where his defense which everyone claims sucks took the gave over and two games vs bottom 5 defenses.

Definitely doesn't point to "give the guy a better coach and players and he'll be elite in one season" scenario.

We need to be honest here. Darnold has some nice talent and at times he's played very well but he also has too many AWFUL games where there should be no thought where Kyle is automatically going to turn him into a stud. We can hope it happens but his history is filled with brutal games(some of which you've tried to excuse away in the post above)

Those types of games are the types to limit a great roster, not the games that Trey put on tape so far.

The OP wasn't addressing the teams we played, although let's not act like Trey has had success against any good teams. He was talking about Darnold having all of those weapons, but he only had them all for a few games. When he had both or one, he did well. When he had neither, he didn't do well.

The point is he will have more/better weapons here, a much better defense, and better play calling. Which is why some of us are excited to see what he can do. Not sure why some of you continue to try and piss in everyone's Cheerios about Darnold. It doesn't make Trey look any better. As I said in a different post, Purdy has already exposed Trey's weaknesses.

Originally posted by Furlow:
The OP wasn't addressing the teams we played, although let's not act like Trey has had success against any good teams. He was talking about Darnold having all of those weapons, but he only had them all for a few games. When he had both or one, he did well. When he had neither, he didn't do well.

The point is he will have more/better weapons here, a much better defense, and better play calling. Which is why some of us are excited to see what he can do. Not sure why some of you continue to try and piss in everyone's Cheerios about Darnold. It doesn't make Trey look any better. As I said in a different post, Purdy has already exposed Trey's weaknesses.

it's always shocking to me how the Lance thread is normally poppin, but with arguement, and the Purdy thread is quiet. You'd think fans would be more excited about Purdy than Lance. I know I am. You win some and loss some. That's the game

Originally posted by tankle104:
it's always shocking to me how the Lance thread is normally poppin, but with arguement, and the Purdy thread is quiet. You'd think fans would be more excited about Purdy than Lance. I know I am. You win some and loss some. That's the game

Lance's character arch is more interesting atm, lol.

Originally posted by Furlow:
The OP wasn't addressing the teams we played, although let's not act like Trey has had success against any good teams. He was talking about Darnold having all of those weapons, but he only had them all for a few games. When he had both or one, he did well. When he had neither, he didn't do well.

The point is he will have more/better weapons here, a much better defense, and better play calling. Which is why some of us are excited to see what he can do. Not sure why some of you continue to try and piss in everyone's Cheerios about Darnold. It doesn't make Trey look any better. As I said in a different post, Purdy has already exposed Trey's weaknesses.

2 1000 yard receivers is pretty good. Got Teddy a 20 point better QBR in 2020 then Sam in 2021 with even less McCaffrey. 20 point better QB rating too.

The point is blaming Darnold past play strictly on the coaching and talent when another backup qb played much better with that same team doesn't hold water. It's not using the same lens to grade qbs. Back to SWH point.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
The OP wasn't addressing the teams we played, although let's not act like Trey has had success against any good teams. He was talking about Darnold having all of those weapons, but he only had them all for a few games. When he had both or one, he did well. When he had neither, he didn't do well.

The point is he will have more/better weapons here, a much better defense, and better play calling. Which is why some of us are excited to see what he can do. Not sure why some of you continue to try and piss in everyone's Cheerios about Darnold. It doesn't make Trey look any better. As I said in a different post, Purdy has already exposed Trey's weaknesses.

2 1000 yard receivers is pretty good. Got Teddy a 20 point better QBR in 2020 then Sam in 2021 with even less McCaffrey. 20 point better QB rating too.

The point is blaming Darnold past play strictly on the coaching and talent when another backup qb played much better with that same team doesn't hold water. It's not using the same lens to grade qbs. Back to SWH point.

You do realize the Panthers had different offensive coordinators those years, right? I'm sure many other differences as well. Do I really need to do a deep dive into that and embarrass you again like earlier today? You keep spouting off nonsense without doing a lick of research beyond basic stats for the season. It's weak.

NARRATIVE

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
I'm 41 and live in Boston, I'm used to dickish so dick away. He played like a game manager because they didn't have a passing game worth a lick and knew their strength was the run game and defense. It changes nothing else about how he showed his talent early on a roster which until they won the SB was laughed at.

The fact that he led the league in TDs the next season shows it wasn't a talent issue with him. You're trying to move the goalposts but it's not gonna fly.

Buddy, the only one who is moving the goalposts is you. And you're creating a straw man argument in place of what I actually said.

There's a reason another poster responded to you with effectively the same points I made (I agreed with his post initially). You wrote what you wrote. You didn't say Tom showed he was capable of being a franchise QB and showed special traits. You said he broke out without top talent and implied he took a bad team to a Super Bowl win. It's all right there. Here's a reminder:

'Hilarious that you bring up Brady going to the Pats and Montana going to the 49ers.

Do you need a reminder of the records the Pats/49ers had when those guys were drafted?

Pats were 5-11 the season Brady sat on the bench. They started their SB season 0-2 before Brady took over and let them to the SB win #1.
49ers were 2-14 Montana's rookie season, 6-10 next season.

Do you want to look at the talent each QB had when they broke out? The top guys shine regardless and make teams better.

Dwight Clark was a 10th round rookie before Montana turned him into a legend.
Troy Brown was an 8th round pick who didn't start a game until year 5 and didn't touch 1k yards until 2001

Yes the coaches Darnold had don't come close to Walsh/Belichick(few do) but Brady and Joe started their careers on bad teams and without top tier talent to throw to and it didn't stop them.

Darnold had played with some talented players. Just because his offense wasn't as stacked as our current roster doesn't mean he was out there with garbage.'

Nothing I wrote was inaccurate. Montana didn't get Rice until he already broke out. Brady broke out well before his 2007 MVP season.

Paint it however you want the main point is the top guys didn't use mediocre talent as a reason to be inconsistent and mediocre.

Can only imagine how much you'd be giving Darnold a pass if he had to throw to Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney.

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
The OP wasn't addressing the teams we played, although let's not act like Trey has had success against any good teams. He was talking about Darnold having all of those weapons, but he only had them all for a few games. When he had both or one, he did well. When he had neither, he didn't do well.

The point is he will have more/better weapons here, a much better defense, and better play calling. Which is why some of us are excited to see what he can do. Not sure why some of you continue to try and piss in everyone's Cheerios about Darnold. It doesn't make Trey look any better. As I said in a different post, Purdy has already exposed Trey's weaknesses.

2 1000 yard receivers is pretty good. Got Teddy a 20 point better QBR in 2020 then Sam in 2021 with even less McCaffrey. 20 point better QB rating too.

The point is blaming Darnold past play strictly on the coaching and talent when another backup qb played much better with that same team doesn't hold water. It's not using the same lens to grade qbs. Back to SWH point.

You do realize the Panthers had different offensive coordinators those years, right? I'm sure many other differences as well. Do I really need to do a deep dive into that and embarrass you again like earlier today? You keep spouting off nonsense without doing a lick of research beyond basic stats for the season. It's weak.

NARRATIVE

You're calling someone out for not having their facts. Did they have two different Joe Bradys? Cuz Bridgewater and Darnold both played under Rhules and Brady's offense. The comparison is fine.

Now you can point out that two different seasons mean different teams but the point is still valid. Excuses for Darnold are obnoxious especially by some of the same people downplaying Lance like he's someone who can't improve or play here anymore.

Question for the Darnold hive…if Shanahan expects him to be a stud…why only one year deal? Smart move would be to sign him for a multi year deal so him becoming dominant with us won't cost us big money after this season.

Originally posted by genus49:
Nothing I wrote was inaccurate. Montana didn't get Rice until he already broke out. Brady broke out well before his 2007 MVP season.

Paint it however you want the main point is the top guys didn't use mediocre talent as a reason to be inconsistent and mediocre.

Can only imagine how much you'd be giving Darnold a pass if he had to throw to Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney.

FFS, I haven't given Darnold a pass on anything. I think he could be a better short term option than Lance and understand why the team signed him to compete for QB2. I haven't argued anything beyond that and have specifically said I thought the team would be in trouble if we had to rely on either of the two guys for the bulk of the season. There's a gigantic gap between being a capable backup/spot starter and a better option than Trey Lance, and comparing the guy to some of the greatest players who ever played the position.

Separate from that I responded to and agreed with another poster who thought your summary of the beginning of Montana and Brady's career wasn't a very good one, and I explained why to you already… your goalpost shifting aside.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
FFS, I haven't given Darnold a pass on anything. I think he could be a better short term option than Lance and understand why the team signed him to compete for QB2. I haven't argued anything beyond that and have specifically said I thought the team would be in trouble if we had to rely on either of the two guys for the bulk of the season. There's a gigantic gap between being a capable backup/spot starter and a better option than Trey Lance, and comparing the guy to some of the greatest players who ever played the position.

Separate from that I responded to and agreed with another poster who thought your summary of the beginning of Montana and Brady's career wasn't a very good one, and I explained why to you already… your goalpost shifting aside.

Nah, Lance is on track like montana or Brady, otherwise you're a hater. Lol anyone watching Lance can't possibly think he's on the same track as those guys…no one watching Lance can think he's as good as those guys. Lmao

lance has enough problems, most he can over come, stop comparing him to all time greats and let him see what he grows into

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by genus49:
Nothing I wrote was inaccurate. Montana didn't get Rice until he already broke out. Brady broke out well before his 2007 MVP season.

Paint it however you want the main point is the top guys didn't use mediocre talent as a reason to be inconsistent and mediocre.

Can only imagine how much you'd be giving Darnold a pass if he had to throw to Reche Caldwell and Jabar Gaffney.

FFS, I haven't given Darnold a pass on anything. I think he could be a better short term option than Lance and understand why the team signed him to compete for QB2. I haven't argued anything beyond that and have specifically said I thought the team would be in trouble if we had to rely on either of the two guys for the bulk of the season. There's a gigantic gap between being a capable backup/spot starter and a better option than Trey Lance, and comparing the guy to some of the greatest players who ever played the position.

Separate from that I responded to and agreed with another poster who thought your summary of the beginning of Montana and Brady's career wasn't a very good one, and I explained why to you already… your goalpost shifting aside.

The main point that pretty much everyone on here thats trying to make is Darnold could be a lot better with the 9ers. No one is saying, Super Bowl here we come with Sam Darnold at the helm. Then again I did say that in a straight up QB competition I bet Darnold wins outright. But that's pretty much about it I'm sure of.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
The main point that pretty much everyone on here thats trying to make is Darnold could be a lot better with the 9ers. No one is saying, Super Bowl here we come with Sam Darnold at the helm. Then again I did say that in a straight up QB competition I bet Darnold wins outright. But that's pretty much about it I'm sure of.

I understand those arguments fine. I'm not Genus, lol. Again, far cry from believing Darnold can beat out Lance and be his best self here, and thinking Darnold is the next great Niners QB. Maybe hard to separate the two ideas if a person thinks Lance has actually played well in his limited time *or thinks his time here hasn't called into question our team's initial projection when they drafted him.*

Originally posted by Furlow:
You do realize the Panthers had different offensive coordinators those years, right? I'm sure many other differences as well. Do I really need to do a deep dive into that and embarrass you again like earlier today? You keep spouting off nonsense without doing a lick of research beyond basic stats for the season. It's weak.

NARRATIVE

Same coordinator actually. Crack job researching.

LT, RG and TE were different but the guys were either hurt or ineffective so they were all a wash between 2020 and 2021.

Teddy was the one that had both Mac and DJ Moore for less games then Sam/Cam.

DJ Moore 2020 66 1193 4 in 15 games 19 20+ catches
Robbie Anderson 2020 95 1096 3 in 16 games 16 20+ catches

DJ Moore 2021 93 1157 4 in 17 games 16 20+ catches
Robbie Anderson 2021 53 519 5 in 17 games 3 20+ catches

20 point difference in QBR and QB rating and clear differences in player performance.

Embarrassing indeed.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Furlow:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Furlow:
The OP wasn't addressing the teams we played, although let's not act like Trey has had success against any good teams. He was talking about Darnold having all of those weapons, but he only had them all for a few games. When he had both or one, he did well. When he had neither, he didn't do well.

The point is he will have more/better weapons here, a much better defense, and better play calling. Which is why some of us are excited to see what he can do. Not sure why some of you continue to try and piss in everyone's Cheerios about Darnold. It doesn't make Trey look any better. As I said in a different post, Purdy has already exposed Trey's weaknesses.

2 1000 yard receivers is pretty good. Got Teddy a 20 point better QBR in 2020 then Sam in 2021 with even less McCaffrey. 20 point better QB rating too.

The point is blaming Darnold past play strictly on the coaching and talent when another backup qb played much better with that same team doesn't hold water. It's not using the same lens to grade qbs. Back to SWH point.

You do realize the Panthers had different offensive coordinators those years, right? I'm sure many other differences as well. Do I really need to do a deep dive into that and embarrass you again like earlier today? You keep spouting off nonsense without doing a lick of research beyond basic stats for the season. It's weak.

NARRATIVE

You're calling someone out for not having their facts. Did they have two different Joe Bradys? Cuz Bridgewater and Darnold both played under Rhules and Brady's offense. The comparison is fine.

Now you can point out that two different seasons mean different teams but the point is still valid. Excuses for Darnold are obnoxious especially by some of the same people downplaying Lance like he's someone who can't improve or play here anymore.

Question for the Darnold hive…if Shanahan expects him to be a stud…why only one year deal? Smart move would be to sign him for a multi year deal so him becoming dominant with us won't cost us big money after this season.

He's been comparing Teddy to Darnold in 2022. Ben McAdoo was the OC in 2022. Not to mention the many other changes over a 2 year span. But yes, even year over year 2020 to 2021 is ridiculous to say "the same team."

If by "hive" you mean someone who thinks Darnold can succeed here, I'll bite (although you clearly mean something else). Who the hell said anything about being a stud? Maybe one year is all Darnold wanted if it wasn't going to be starter money. I did read reports that he took less to come here.