Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
If it comes down to just running the offense and not doing anything stupid, give me Trey over Darnold 100/100 times.

Exactly. All the Darnold takes are crazy to me. More experience doesn't automatically make Darnold better when he's shown to put some awful games out there - games that can doom a great team.

Lance's mistakes haven't been of that variety. He also knows the offense better. What good is experience when the guy who has it, has it in another offense and still makes bonehead errors with all that experience?

I am curious to see how training camp unfolds though. Darnold definitely does better when he knows he can't get hit though so that is a plus for him. We'll see how Trey looks with the work he's put through.

Should be an interesting camp to follow for sure. Can't wait...

At the end of the day, Sam has made too many horrendous mistakes while under no pressure for me to be on his hype train. Not saying he's peaked, but just because he's been in the NFL longer doesn't mean he'd be better.

If anything, Lance has seen first hand from Purdy how all you need to do is trust the system and then let your athletic instincts do the rest if things break down. In the small action he had, he never looked panicked to me. The issues we saw were more being off the mark on some throws and being late sometimes due to his inexperience -- something even Brock did at times.

Darnold's habit of forcing things that aren't there, or holding it too long and getting stripped I think would drive Shanahan insane.

Both Lance and Darnold have been disappointing for different reasons. Lance because injuries have kept him from getting the reps he needs to get better. Darnold because he's played for 2 teams with poor talent around him and bad coaches. Lack of a supporting cast and poor coaching has destroyed more than one promising QB. Some are able to improve if they move on and get in the right situation but some never do. Once they lose that confidence and get beat up a little they never recover.

Once again...why are we excusing Darnold so much?

Yes Shanahan is obviously much better offensive mind than anyone Darnold played with but scheme doesn't help pocket presence, decision making and ability to see the field. Kyle can make things easier but he can't work miracles. Same thing when people were blaming Shanahan for Matt Ryan coughing up the ball in the SB loss to the Pats - guaranteed Tom Brady doesn't do the same thing with the same playcalls.

I'm also pretty confident that if the playcalling was similar to what Trey saw in the Arizona and Chicago games that Darnold wouldn't do any better.

It's not an excuse when you're stuck with a bad team and bad coaches. Darnold was just like so many of the QBs getting drafted high these days. One or 2 years experience and they get drafted on potential. Most of them need good coaching and most go to bad teams that don't have a lot of talent. Look at how many of these guys that get drafted in the top 10 end up as failures.

Tom Brady and Joe Montana wouldn't have been near as good if they had gone to some crappy team like the Jets or the Lions. I'm talking about 2 of the best ever. Those teams have been losers no matter who was the QB. Darnold isn't in their category but he may have been much better at this point if he had ther coaches and supporting cast.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Shanny addressed this. He said the TOs are a consequence of being on bad squads, bad protection, chasing the game late, so needing to force things. We also see this all over the NFL. Geno had a worse INT % with NYJ, than Sam. It's fixed in SEA. So these things aren't baked into the player, they change with the supporting cast.

The idea of KS being driven insane, what's been driving him insane, is his desire to land Darnold on his team. You think KS doesn't know the TO history with Sam? Trust me, he is well aware, and addressed it publicly, said it won't happen here, it will get fixed.

lol wtf? We getting to new levels of dramatic aren't we.

Kyle always thinks he can fix someone...until they don't do everything exactly how he wants and then he's out on them. At least that's the way it seems.

Bringing up Geno Smith is reaching deep. Dude had an awful rookie year from interception standpoint after coming out of a spread offense at WVU. He also sat and worked on his game for 7 years before getting another chance to start and spent 2 years with Seattle before taking over the starting job.

Expecting Darnold to magically turn it around in 1 season is a major shot in the dark. Matt Ryan couldn't master the offense in year 1 but Darnold can? He's no Brock Purdy.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Idk the answer but I've always wondered - do these guys do that kind of work in the off season? All I seem to hear about are independent workouts with coaches and film study. If a group of guys gets together to play 7-7, it becomes huge news. Lol

it can't be that hard to find aspiring guys/teammates to do that stuff with. Especially if you workout in the Miami/LA/Houston etc areas.

i never understood why they do so much 1-1 drills with throwing to wide open guys. If you can't do that greatly, then that's sad. You should be able to hit them perfectly - but things aren't perfect in a game, people are in the way. You have to adjust in the moment and make it work. No idea why they aren't being covered

I imagine having too many bodies on the field = biggest chance for someone to get injured.

Plus different position groups tend to work on different things. Not like you can really rep your actual offense unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot cuz somebody will be watching.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by krizay:
This is why myself and others thought this offseason was the highest his value will ever be with us.

The talk on here is he needs reps to get better. Take our lumps as he develops. While also saying Brock's 7 game sample size isn't enough to evaluate.

So if Trey does get to play this year we are already resigned to the fact he's going to take his lumps. While also acknowledging that 7 games isn't enough to know what he is or isn't.

So how can he improve his value if he's "taking his lumps" in a year his 5th year option needs to be exercised?

Any team wanting him would have wanted him for the full offseason and regular season for their own evaluation.

He would have to do what even his biggest supporters don't think he can do. Which is come out and ball with no lumps taken. Even then, I find it hard to believe that Trey can get our offense clicking the way Brock had it clicking. He is a dead man walking as it relates to his time here.

I suppose it's possible to decline his 5th year option and roll with him as a backup in '24 as well. Though I'd expect him to request a trade by then.

I am just so tired of some posters talking about the lumps Trey will take, and being unwilling to do that.....while at the same time were totally ok with Jimmy's inconsistent play over the past few years. The QB position was almost never THE reason our team won with Jimmy as the starter, yet they arent ok with another QB being in the same position.

Hopefully Purdy regains his health and balls out so we never will have to find out. Just the inconsistent arguments from some posters are just maddening. Opinions on what we need/have at the QB position shouldnt change depending on QB. And thats exactly what happens on this board. Its maddening.

Excellent point. People love to overplay how poorly Trey played and ignore everything that was going on with the team in those games...yet same people saying poor Darnold had it rough and he just needs talent around him and good coaching.

Originally posted by genus49:
lol wtf? We getting to new levels of dramatic aren't we.

Kyle always thinks he can fix someone...until they don't do everything exactly how he wants and then he's out on them. At least that's the way it seems.

Bringing up Geno Smith is reaching deep. Dude had an awful rookie year from interception standpoint after coming out of a spread offense at WVU. He also sat and worked on his game for 7 years before getting another chance to start and spent 2 years with Seattle before taking over the starting job.

Expecting Darnold to magically turn it around in 1 season is a major shot in the dark. Matt Ryan couldn't master the offense in year 1 but Darnold can? He's no Brock Purdy.

I expect Lance to beat out darnold, but what I've read about this offense - you master it by playing in it.

trey has the edge there, but it's a slight edge. He has like a total of four games played in it. I wouldn't say Trey has it mastered. I don't think Brock has it mastered yet either.

i think darnold can give Lance a run for his money if he doesn't make improvements. I don't see them making Lance QB3 though for numerous reasons.

What I find interesting about Lance is that in practice he seems to not be too aggressive, more passive (based on reports) but he seems to be more aggressive in games. Lol

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Idk the answer but I've always wondered - do these guys do that kind of work in the off season? All I seem to hear about are independent workouts with coaches and film study. If a group of guys gets together to play 7-7, it becomes huge news. Lol

it can't be that hard to find aspiring guys/teammates to do that stuff with. Especially if you workout in the Miami/LA/Houston etc areas.

i never understood why they do so much 1-1 drills with throwing to wide open guys. If you can't do that greatly, then that's sad. You should be able to hit them perfectly - but things aren't perfect in a game, people are in the way. You have to adjust in the moment and make it work. No idea why they aren't being covered

I imagine having too many bodies on the field = biggest chance for someone to get injured.

Plus different position groups tend to work on different things. Not like you can really rep your actual offense unless you want to shoot yourself in the foot cuz somebody will be watching.

Gathering a bunch of dudes together to run 7on7 isn't as easy as it sounds. It's not some pick-up game of basketball. To give the QB looks that best simulate a game, each player needs to be on the same page, offense and defense. For sure it helps more than throwing to a WR that's running routes versus air, but to get something truly meaningful out of 7on7, the offensive players should have the 49ers offensive playbook, and the defensive players need to know their coverage drops and execute it in unison - not simple to organize.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Well seeing that we almost always lost without jimmy, I would say he was THE reason. People don't give his efficiency and leadership enough credit. He helped us get to a super bowl.

was he the main reason we were scoring? No. He wasn't Rodgers or Brady out there, he didn't carry us, but he constantly put the team in position to convert downs, get YAC, score. Etc. That stuff is extremely important to winning.

it indirectly impacts the defense/special teams. Let's the defense rest, have good field position, make sure the punt team isn't always backed up, reasonable field goal distance.

my main concern with Trey is he hasn't been able to do that. So when I personally say "lumps", I'm talking scoring 10 a game and the defense is exhausted because they're always on the field.

if Trey was more efficient, the argument would make more sense. Trey turned the ball over more than he scored, very inefficient, very inaccurate (50% completion), etc. THATS the main problem with Lance.

people talk too much about what Lance BRINGS and not enough what he DOESNT BRING. What he doesn't bring is the real issue - accuracy, efficiency, scoring, first downs, leadership etc. if he can get those down, he will be a good qb. But let's not act like he has. He's only done that for 1.5 quarters of one game.

id bet anything that Kyle is uncomfortable with Lance starting right now because of what he isn't currently bringing - which begs the question, how much experience does he need before he gets that stuff down? No one knows but it isn't a couple games.

every single down, is new to Lance. He's most likely never experienced any of it in football. He's really really green.

6 TDs, 3 INT and 1 fumble in a crazy rain game that he didn't lose. I'm sure you want to look at just the starts but of course you don't want to look at circumstances in those starts or look at his rushing totals.

As for his injuries - use Jimmy and Brock like Kyle used Trey and see what happens. We all saw it coming. Hopefully whatever spot Trey gets on the roster assuming he's still here week 1 that Kyle learned from last year.

Hopefully Trey comes in and gives Kyle more trust in him to execute the offense the way he wants but Kyle has to keep the ego in check a bit. Even when it comes to RBs he hurts the offense calling things a certain way when he has HIS guys in the gave vs guys he doesn't trust as much.

Originally posted by genus49:
6 TDs, 3 INT and 1 fumble in a crazy rain game that he didn't lose. I'm sure you want to look at just the starts but of course you don't want to look at circumstances in those starts or look at his rushing totals.

As for his injuries - use Jimmy and Brock like Kyle used Trey and see what happens. We all saw it coming. Hopefully whatever spot Trey gets on the roster assuming he's still here week 1 that Kyle learned from last year.

Hopefully Trey comes in and gives Kyle more trust in him to execute the offense the way he wants but Kyle has to keep the ego in check a bit. Even when it comes to RBs he hurts the offense calling things a certain way when he has HIS guys in the gave vs guys he doesn't trust as much.

I think the way kyle used Lance was stupid and ridiculous. Lol very frustrating. I wanted to see more of Lance in the pass game.

i just wonder why he did that. Did he genuinely think it was the best use of Lance? Was there some sort of lack of trust factor because of his inexperience? Combination?

i just hope that if we see Lance play again, he's used like Brock & Jimmy are. Otherwise, idk how you even try to figure out if he can really play or not

Originally posted by tankle104:
Lol Lance def wasn't running the same offense as jimmy or Brock. It wasn't even close.

there are numerous comments from Kyle talking about 11-11. Him drawing up plays for Lance and his skill set.

if you would of just watched the video.. of Kyle. You'd realize everything your saying is wrong. Lol Kyle, HIMSELF, is saying the opposite of what you are saying. You're giving your opinion (because it makes you feel better and right) but kyle is saying the opposite

The plays that Jimmy looked best in during the Seahawks game week 2 were drawn up for Lance. His desire to run an 11 on 11 offense isn't changing with other QBs, it's a matter of whether they can do that.

The thing you're not grasping is that even if Kyle backs up from the 11 on 11 football because he doesn't want to run Brock, doesn't mean Lance cannot run the offense Brock would be able to run. You've spent how many posts telling us that Lance isn't great of a runner to the outside? Maybe it's a better thing not to use him that way in the running game...

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:
They're alternating reps in OTAs and we also only got an idea of what's happening in 1 out of 3 practices. We'll have a better understanding of the rep split when training camp gets here.

You guys keep making generalized statements fueled by speculation but until that speculation is proven with facts then why act like you know something that hasn't happened yet?

Trey just needs reps and whether he's getting 1st string reps or 2nd team reps they're reps. Now I certainly wish they'd let him just stick with the first string offense but for the betterment of the team it does make sense to spread them around. Whoever is QB1/2/3 you want them to be ready to play with the bulk of the roster.

But yes obviously the team isn't thrilled with how things went with Lance and how last year went they know they better get their QB room right. But I don't see them acting like they don't want to develop him anymore.

To me development is the job of the player. It's not a function of the team. The team's job, is to win games. It's TLs job to show he has a role to play in that.

I would grade our coaching staff, and offensive talent, as probably #1 in the NFL. In that sense, there is no better environment, to grow and figure it out, as a QB imo.

Kyle Shanahan by all accounts is INCREDIBLY particular with what he wants in his offense. How can they not develop a player if you're going to ask for something super specific?

We all knew Lance's lack of experience. That was part of the draw - his rawness at such a young age that the coaches would be able to mold him into what they want. Maybe it's too late due to injuries and Brock's emergence but Trey is certainly doing his part but if any chance he gets to play Kyle keeps using him like a FB, we'll be in trouble and Trey is unlikely to find success.

Originally posted by thl408:
Gathering a bunch of dudes together to run 7on7 isn't as easy as it sounds. It's not some pick-up game of basketball. To give the QB looks that best simulate a game, each player needs to be on the same page, offense and defense. For sure it helps more than throwing to a WR that's running routes versus air, but to get something truly meaningful out of 7on7, the offensive players should have the 49ers offensive playbook, and the defensive players need to know their coverage drops and execute it in unison - not simple to organize.

Yeah it's team activity. The more you get that, you can make up for some of that snaps you didn't get in college, that a guy like BP did. It's improving your ability to read and react.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by thl408:
Gathering a bunch of dudes together to run 7on7 isn't as easy as it sounds. It's not some pick-up game of basketball. To give the QB looks that best simulate a game, each player needs to be on the same page, offense and defense. For sure it helps more than throwing to a WR that's running routes versus air, but to get something truly meaningful out of 7on7, the offensive players should have the 49ers offensive playbook, and the defensive players need to know their coverage drops and execute it in unison - not simple to organize.

Yeah it's team activity. The more you get that, you can make up for some of that snaps you didn't get in college, that a guy like BP did. It's improving your ability to read and react.

I was responding to tankle saying, "it can't be that hard to find aspiring guys/teammates to do that stuff with." My point is, it's not easy.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by tankle104:
Lol Lance def wasn't running the same offense as jimmy or Brock. It wasn't even close.

there are numerous comments from Kyle talking about 11-11. Him drawing up plays for Lance and his skill set.

if you would of just watched the video.. of Kyle. You'd realize everything your saying is wrong. Lol Kyle, HIMSELF, is saying the opposite of what you are saying. You're giving your opinion (because it makes you feel better and right) but kyle is saying the opposite

The plays that Jimmy looked best in during the Seahawks game week 2 were drawn up for Lance. His desire to run an 11 on 11 offense isn't changing with other QBs, it's a matter of whether they can do that.

The thing you're not grasping is that even if Kyle backs up from the 11 on 11 football because he doesn't want to run Brock, doesn't mean Lance cannot run the offense Brock would be able to run. You've spent how many posts telling us that Lance isn't great of a runner to the outside? Maybe it's a better thing not to use him that way in the running game...

I'd 1000% rather see Lance run the same offense Purdy & Jimmy ran. I think all that running with a QB is dumb. Mainly because it puts them at risk of unnecessarily injuring the QB (most important player on the field).

i never want to see a designed run by Lance again. Lol I want to see him pass first and if the play breaks down, he books it then. I think he has a great skill set for that and would do that better than most QBs can.

the point of me posting that video was because it was our HC specifically talking about that stuff and how he does it. I'm not saying Lance can't run the same Style offense as Purdy, of course he can. Anyone can run any system, just begs the question can they do it well?

i think Lance would struggle a lot cause of his accuracy concerns (hopefully improved this off season). I don't really talk about him running that offense because his play calls were vastly different than what Kyle usually calls. So the natural conclusion is that Kyle thinks Lance is best suited for that kind of offense, which means he designs it differently because of his skill set.

i don't want Lance running the ball the way he has. I hate it and think it's a waste. If a QB has to rely on their legs to open up their passing lanes, then I don't think they should be playing QB. I'd much much rather see Lance drop back 98% of the time and run in very unique situations.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
To me development is the job of the player. It's not a function of the team. The team's job, is to win games. It's TLs job to show he has a role to play in that.

I would grade our coaching staff, and offensive talent, as probably #1 in the NFL. In that sense, there is no better environment, to grow and figure it out, as a QB imo.

Except in Sam Darnolds case of course. Then his development, or lack thereof, is all a function of the team.

This is exactly what Steve is talking about.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by genus49:
They're alternating reps in OTAs and we also only got an idea of what's happening in 1 out of 3 practices. We'll have a better understanding of the rep split when training camp gets here.

You guys keep making generalized statements fueled by speculation but until that speculation is proven with facts then why act like you know something that hasn't happened yet?

Trey just needs reps and whether he's getting 1st string reps or 2nd team reps they're reps. Now I certainly wish they'd let him just stick with the first string offense but for the betterment of the team it does make sense to spread them around. Whoever is QB1/2/3 you want them to be ready to play with the bulk of the roster.

But yes obviously the team isn't thrilled with how things went with Lance and how last year went they know they better get their QB room right. But I don't see them acting like they don't want to develop him anymore.

To me development is the job of the player. It's not a function of the team. The team's job, is to win games. It's TLs job to show he has a role to play in that.

I would grade our coaching staff, and offensive talent, as probably #1 in the NFL. In that sense, there is no better environment, to grow and figure it out, as a QB imo.

Kyle Shanahan by all accounts is INCREDIBLY particular with what he wants in his offense. How can they not develop a player if you're going to ask for something super specific?

We all knew Lance's lack of experience. That was part of the draw - his rawness at such a young age that the coaches would be able to mold him into what they want. Maybe it's too late due to injuries and Brock's emergence but Trey is certainly doing his part but if any chance he gets to play Kyle keeps using him like a FB, we'll be in trouble and Trey is unlikely to find success.

When you take on someone as raw as Lance, you have to help develop them. I think the team thought he wasn't as green as he is, for some reason. Kyle said something dumb after drafting him like "I think he's the most nfl ready to start out of the draft". Lol no one could have truly thought that, If they did - they shouldn't be allowed in the draft room.

lances biggest holdback has been injuries. It stopped him getting more time as a rookie in packages. It stopped him from progressing in his first full off season (finger issue) and then it stopped him from playing all last year. It's hard to work on the small things when you're injured and can't do them right.

so when you couple that with his rawness, you're not going to get much improvement, unfortunately.