Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I don't care which QB does it but it's high time we leave Sid Luckman in the dust

LOL. That's a tough hill to climb over!

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Good point, that's the other option - sign Trey long term somewhere in 2024.

Personally, I think Trey will progress this year and be a viable competitor to Purdy as QB1. Again, I'm assuming if Kyle can get Purdy up to speed the way he was as a backup to Jimmy, why not Trey? I don't see any mental handicaps to Trey preventing him from developing his intangibles the way Purdy did behind Jimmy. What has been hindering Trey is his durability - which was a knock-on Jimmy also. But even with Jimmy's durability issues, ShanaLynch decided to keep Jimmy anyway. In fact, I think *because of Brock* ShanaLynch now has the luxury of actually keeping Trey long term.

Here's how that would work out in my mind. Brock is QB1 and starts game 1 in the 2023 season. Trey also needs to beat out Sam for QB2 this season. Trey *has shown progress* (example - tightened up mechanics) and *hopefully* will show good progress in training camp and pre-season. Kyle keeps him this year (2023) and doesn't trade Trey. Kyle allows Trey to play in blowout games or games where Kyle wants to protect Purdy from injury - and Trey does well this year. Because Purdy locks down the QB1 position, I think that frees up Kyle to continue to develop Trey in 2024. He'll keep Trey because he's cheap compared to other backup QB's out there in 2024. (Trey's salary in 2024 = 10 million) current backup QB's future average salary at that time could be in the neighborhood of 9+ million - very comparable. I think if Kyle sees the potential for Trey to either win the QB1 position *or* develop to where Kyle can get better trade value in 2025 - that is *one* way for Trey to stay on with the 49ers for a much longer term.

Very good post!

Then the question becomes does Lance want to stay here as a backup for four to five years. My guess is no, idk who would want that as a player. He would benefit a lot but he will benefit more from playing.

if I was him, and I didn't get to start this year, I'm asking to be traded. Hoping the guy infront of you gets injured so you can play isn't a great plan.

Danke LVW!

I would think Trey would want to stay, considering he's playing with a QB in Sam who was stuck in some crap teams and never (I think) was under a good QB coach that could develop him property for the NFL game. I'm sure Trey will talk to Sam about his career and NFL experiences and the resons for Sam comming to the 49ers. I think Sam Darnold will say that he could have gone to any other team and gotten paid more, but he came to Kyle to develop his QB skills and was willing to take a pay cut in doing so.

I think Trey's best bet is to stay with Kyle as long as he can - and once he does develop, now he can command some brinks trucks, or stay with the 49ers. I would think getting a pay cut to stay one more year with Kyle would be a good investment if Trey can showcase his talent, or at least develop to where he can go to any team and be a great QB despite having a crap offensive coordinator or a crap Defensively minded head coach. Of course, the key here is that Trey stays until the end of his rookie contract - and if he can't beat out Sam this year for the QB2 spot, that becomes much harder to do.

I think he just needs one or two more years tops. Most of his growth will come from playing. One more year on a winning team while spending another off-season with Christensen will probably do him wonders.

I'll say this though: if it's a tossup between Trey and Sam for the number 2 spot, I'm giving it to Trey so I can use him in spot gimmick situations where we can threaten a QB power play. Not sure on the new QB rules though, but if I have to have one and they're even, I'm going with the guy comfortable of doing what Jalen Hurts does in Philly.

Agree about the two year period. One reason I agree is because he's been injured so much he's simply not played enough in the NFL to get any sort of learning done. In other words, I'd like to see him actually *finish* a whole 17 game stretch and see how he does - and I think that would still not be enough and would like to see him play another 17 games to really see where he is. 3 number one draft pics says to me that you want to make darn sure you aren't giving an undeveloped Steve Young to Tampa Bay for another Buccaneer super bowl run.

Trey in Gimmick situations will happen I think *only if* Trey beats out Sam which will happen sometime around or after this Training camp/preseason. I have great confidence that Trey will play this season if he's QB2 for a couple of reasons, he's so physically gifted as you said, QB Power is something he can do. Injury wise - I think he will get a chance to play. Every year our QB's are injured, it's almost a done deal. The type of plays he'll be running are, hopefully, Lamar Jackson to the Tight end type plays vs long range throws. I want to see Trey's touch pass ability and his accuracy on those Tight end throws. If he can develop his touch and accuracy, he will have a very long NFL career.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I find what's odd about this debate, is the strong arm crowd seemingly couldn't care less about Darnold, who certainly has plus arm talent. You lose the designed run stuff, going from TL to Sam, however, most ppl probably regard that as a plus anyway, like you do.

You may know this or you may not but Darnold has had plenty of health and time in the NFL with a team that desperately needed good QB play.

He's had his chance. This is generally why no one cares about Darnold. Shouldnt be that hard to figure out why someone is instead waiting for the younger guy to have more time.

Everyone here pretty much wants an answer on how our newly drafted guys will be performing. The team can decide their order on the depth chart later. Thats not for us.

Not hard, right?

That said...if you want more passion for Sam Darnold,... Post in his thread more. Lets generate the excitement you want to see.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

What's an air yard attempt? Someone help me out on that one.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

What's an air yard attempt? Someone help me out on that one.

The average yards the ball travels from the time it leaves the Qbs hands and into the receivers .. minus yac

Originally posted by BMoore56:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

What's an air yard attempt? Someone help me out on that one.

The average yards the ball travels from the time it leaves the Qbs hands and into the receivers .. minus yac

Uncle Rico stuff

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tankle104:
It'll be interesting to see how Lance looks with some more time with a qb coach before camp. Overall, I think he had a solid OTA, that apparent pick six to hyder under pressure was pretty bad. It's just OTAs, so no big deal, just flames the concerns regarding him regressing when the pads are flying.

im hoping he looks much improved in 11-11.

since most of the practices were closed to the media, im curious who threw all those picks to brown. Lol no one seems to know.

Agreed. I could care less about 7 on 7's too.

Give me 11 on 11's and then pads and then scrimmages against another team and then finally, pre season games.

someone will still bring up that the QB can't get hit

That's true. But at least they can move you off the spot a bit. It's something.

For me, preseason games are where it's at and I can see *real* football and the hits and tackles and see how Trey is progressing in the face of a pass rush. The pick 6 to Kerry Hyder, while not really a big issue with me, says a little something about his current progress. Not a good thing to happen in my book, but again, it's OTA's and I'm waiting for preseason also.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Good point, that's the other option - sign Trey long term somewhere in 2024.

Personally, I think Trey will progress this year and be a viable competitor to Purdy as QB1. Again, I'm assuming if Kyle can get Purdy up to speed the way he was as a backup to Jimmy, why not Trey? I don't see any mental handicaps to Trey preventing him from developing his intangibles the way Purdy did behind Jimmy. What has been hindering Trey is his durability - which was a knock-on Jimmy also. But even with Jimmy's durability issues, ShanaLynch decided to keep Jimmy anyway. In fact, I think *because of Brock* ShanaLynch now has the luxury of actually keeping Trey long term.

Here's how that would work out in my mind. Brock is QB1 and starts game 1 in the 2023 season. Trey also needs to beat out Sam for QB2 this season. Trey *has shown progress* (example - tightened up mechanics) and *hopefully* will show good progress in training camp and pre-season. Kyle keeps him this year (2023) and doesn't trade Trey. Kyle allows Trey to play in blowout games or games where Kyle wants to protect Purdy from injury - and Trey does well this year. Because Purdy locks down the QB1 position, I think that frees up Kyle to continue to develop Trey in 2024. He'll keep Trey because he's cheap compared to other backup QB's out there in 2024. (Trey's salary in 2024 = 10 million) current backup QB's future average salary at that time could be in the neighborhood of 9+ million - very comparable. I think if Kyle sees the potential for Trey to either win the QB1 position *or* develop to where Kyle can get better trade value in 2025 - that is *one* way for Trey to stay on with the 49ers for a much longer term.

Very good post!

Then the question becomes does Lance want to stay here as a backup for four to five years. My guess is no, idk who would want that as a player. He would benefit a lot but he will benefit more from playing.

if I was him, and I didn't get to start this year, I'm asking to be traded. Hoping the guy infront of you gets injured so you can play isn't a great plan.

Danke LVW!

I would think Trey would want to stay, considering he's playing with a QB in Sam who was stuck in some crap teams and never (I think) was under a good QB coach that could develop him property for the NFL game. I'm sure Trey will talk to Sam about his career and NFL experiences and the resons for Sam comming to the 49ers. I think Sam Darnold will say that he could have gone to any other team and gotten paid more, but he came to Kyle to develop his QB skills and was willing to take a pay cut in doing so.

I think Trey's best bet is to stay with Kyle as long as he can - and once he does develop, now he can command some brinks trucks, or stay with the 49ers. I would think getting a pay cut to stay one more year with Kyle would be a good investment if Trey can showcase his talent, or at least develop to where he can go to any team and be a great QB despite having a crap offensive coordinator or a crap Defensively minded head coach. Of course, the key here is that Trey stays until the end of his rookie contract - and if he can't beat out Sam this year for the QB2 spot, that becomes much harder to do.

I think he just needs one or two more years tops. Most of his growth will come from playing. One more year on a winning team while spending another off-season with Christensen will probably do him wonders.

I'll say this though: if it's a tossup between Trey and Sam for the number 2 spot, I'm giving it to Trey so I can use him in spot gimmick situations where we can threaten a QB power play. Not sure on the new QB rules though, but if I have to have one and they're even, I'm going with the guy comfortable of doing what Jalen Hurts does in Philly.

Agree about the two year period. One reason I agree is because he's been injured so much he's simply not played enough in the NFL to get any sort of learning done. In other words, I'd like to see him actually *finish* a whole 17 game stretch and see how he does - and I think that would still not be enough and would like to see him play another 17 games to really see where he is. 3 number one draft pics says to me that you want to make darn sure you aren't giving an undeveloped Steve Young to Tampa Bay for another Buccaneer super bowl run.

Trey in Gimmick situations will happen I think *only if* Trey beats out Sam which will happen sometime around or after this Training camp/preseason. I have great confidence that Trey will play this season if he's QB2 for a couple of reasons, he's so physically gifted as you said, QB Power is something he can do. Injury wise - I think he will get a chance to play. Every year our QB's are injured, it's almost a done deal. The type of plays he'll be running are, hopefully, Lamar Jackson to the Tight end type plays vs long range throws. I want to see Trey's touch pass ability and his accuracy on those Tight end throws. If he can develop his touch and accuracy, he will have a very long NFL career.

I find it interesting that they're actually going to give darnold first team reps. I'm sort of surprised they're doing that and making Trey compete for QB2. You'd almost think he is QB2 by default. This kind of stuff makes me think he may still be moved (but that's pure speculation on my part) because otherwise, I'd expect the team to give him anything and everything to try and develop. I do think the competition is healthy but taking those snaps away in training camp makes me think they're really considering starting darnold (if Purdy isn't healthy) or having him as QB2.

regardless of if Trey is QB2 or not, and I think he will win it if we keep all three, I expect those trick packages with him. His physical skill set does open up a lot of unique plays like New Orleans did/does with Taysum Hill.

i also think Trey is a good 2 full seasons out of play before we have any idea what he is. Honestly, I just want to see him stay healthy this off season and go from there. Lol that would be a big win. If we can have all three QBs healthy at the start of the season, I'll be happy.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tankle104:
It'll be interesting to see how Lance looks with some more time with a qb coach before camp. Overall, I think he had a solid OTA, that apparent pick six to hyder under pressure was pretty bad. It's just OTAs, so no big deal, just flames the concerns regarding him regressing when the pads are flying.

im hoping he looks much improved in 11-11.

since most of the practices were closed to the media, im curious who threw all those picks to brown. Lol no one seems to know.

Agreed. I could care less about 7 on 7's too.

Give me 11 on 11's and then pads and then scrimmages against another team and then finally, pre season games.

someone will still bring up that the QB can't get hit

That's true. But at least they can move you off the spot a bit. It's something.

For me, preseason games are where it's at and I can see *real* football and the hits and tackles and see how Trey is progressing in the face of a pass rush. The pick 6 to Kerry Hyder, while not really a big issue with me, says a little something about his current progress. Not a good thing to happen in my book, but again, it's OTA's and I'm waiting for preseason also.

I don't see it as a good thing that it happened (although I don't know the entire context of the play), but I think the silver lining is that hopefully plays like that makes him very aware of where his progress is at and can focus on it with his QB coach before camp.

I think it's a bit unrealistic to expect his new mechanics to be perfect all the time and/or stick right now because it takes quite a while to rework your mechanics and make it second nature, that goes for any qb. Trey is trying to make some significant changes to his throwing motion etc and that isn't an easy task. He's improving and that does take time but I'm glad he's doing it.

i think faithful6 is the one that's been saying this (I may have that wrong) but that Trey sitting his third year and working on his mechanics etc all year as a backup, may be really good for him. Especially if he is healthy. It isn't ideal but it would still be a big benefit for him. It would make him exponentially better next off season and hopefully a real threat. He's had quite a bit to rework since he stepped into the league and has essentially been injured the whole time. I think by next off season it would be second nature to him. He's young too so it wouldn't be a big deal, IMO. Just would suck contract wise but I think he would benefit a lot.

Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:

Originally posted by CharlieSheen:
Kyle didn't want the running QB in Washington though. He wanted the one that couldn't run.

He didn't want Fields at all, but considered Mac Jones.

You can believe what you want, but the evidence definitely does not suggest Kyle is giddy to implement the QB run game. At least not as much as he did with Trey

IMO, I think he passed on fields due to his personality. Comes across as someone that would less coachable than Lance. Lance seems like a very good person that genuinely wants to take in as much coaching as possible. Fields comes across as smug, know it all. Again, this is just my opinion lol

Where did you get that? Fields is the first one in the clubhouse and is admired by teammates. He is super active in the community and involved in multiple causes. The coaches love him and the draft and free agency were all about supporting Fields. He may have problems, but personality is a huge plus for him.

2. Lance's throwing motion may be more streamlined than last year, but it didn't translate into particularly pretty stats. He was 11-of-19 (57.9 percent) in the 11-on-11 sessions that were open to reporters. Yes, that's a very small sample size — too small to make any sweeping judgments.

Still, that completion percentage will be something to watch in training camp. Lance completed 54.7 percent of his attempts last summer. The 49ers would love to see that jump into the 60 percent range this year

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by tankle104:
It'll be interesting to see how Lance looks with some more time with a qb coach before camp. Overall, I think he had a solid OTA, that apparent pick six to hyder under pressure was pretty bad. It's just OTAs, so no big deal, just flames the concerns regarding him regressing when the pads are flying.

im hoping he looks much improved in 11-11.

since most of the practices were closed to the media, im curious who threw all those picks to brown. Lol no one seems to know.

Agreed. I could care less about 7 on 7's too.

Give me 11 on 11's and then pads and then scrimmages against another team and then finally, pre season games.

someone will still bring up that the QB can't get hit

That's true. But at least they can move you off the spot a bit. It's something.

For me, preseason games are where it's at and I can see *real* football and the hits and tackles and see how Trey is progressing in the face of a pass rush. The pick 6 to Kerry Hyder, while not really a big issue with me, says a little something about his current progress. Not a good thing to happen in my book, but again, it's OTA's and I'm waiting for preseason also.

Wasn't Lance criticized last year, by Warner mainly, for holding on to the ball and not taking chances of an interception. Maybe this year he throwing more freely ??

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by SLCNiner:
You are NOT free to demand evidence from anyone on why they change their opinion. I actually come here because there are so many posters who bring a ton of information that I wouldn't get elsewhere, and yes, sometimes when debating with those who know more it causes me to change my mind. The fact that you are so riled up over such a thought leaves no reason to discuss anything with you. You have no intention of ever changing your position, so you must be here simply for confrontational purposes. That makes you superfluous. Like a 3rd nipple.

Guy, you can provide evidence for your position and maybe you can change my mind. That's it. Very simple.

I have the same thought now as you had when Lance got injured and in my opinion the new evidence doesn't do anything but reinforce that position.

I'm not demanding a thing from you. But again, this is how points are successfully made. Make a claim… support it. If you don't want to that's fine. You're just not providing a convincing argument without doing so.

I'm telling you now, just as I told Jeepzilla, I did not bring up your post to embarrass you. I brought it up to answer your question. You asked which games I wanted Lance to air it out more, and I argued that airing it out more was not the solution if Kyle didn't think he could, and that instead he shouldn't have been playing. I used your post in conjunction with that idea. I made other posts in response to other posters that followed with the exact same theme.

I'm moving on. Block me if you need to.

….

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No, I believe Kyle is conservative. There's a whole podcast on it with Crocker from yesterday. I believe he coaches up his QB's to take the higher % shots and that's evident over time. I believe he likes to be in control of when the deeper shots are taken hence how JD has highlighted those being set up from earlier designs.

He's had 7 years to construct a team exactly how he wants it. Golden and 9ers4eva believe Aiyuk is our consistent deep threat (which is fine but I don't see the objective evidence for that). We've changed QB's. We still have no consistent deep threat, IMHO. What's the one constant? Kyle. He runs this b***h.

QB's change, spray chart stays the same. In fact, the only change we ever saw was with Trey when he became a FB dive specialist where the spray charts actually flipped.

So no, I'm going to focus on the 95% grounded in history and expect the exact same thing this year. A couple calculated set-up deep shots per game by Kyle using different personnel, mixed in with an off schedule shot once in a while by the QB/conditions but living in Kyle's designs under 20 yards the rest of the time.

Brock Purdy vs Jimmy G - Season Passing Chart pic.twitter.com/RQ6HR3qvLY

— Ryan G Hensley (@ryanghensley) December 26, 2022

Literally the only thing those spray charts show is kyle calling plays that their QBs can make. Do you think Jimmy is gonna head to the Raiders and start pushing it downfield a ton? Do you think if Brock got tossed in a Arians offense that he would all of a sudden be leading the league in air yards? Not a chance. That chart shows that those QBs have similar skill sets. That's all.

was kyle calling in breaking routes and screens when RG3 was the QB? Nah. Dude is forming his scheme around the QBs skill set. It's why he couldn't toggle between Jimmy and Lance his rookie yr. Different skill sets require different play calling.

Acting like how he constructed his offense is proof to them not wanting to push the ball downfield is ridiculous. BA is absolutely a deep threat. Go look at Deebo when lance was throwing, PA deep ball TDs. Danny gray deep threat. Even Pettis was regarded as a full field WR. Not just a possession WR. He clearly couldn't do what he was doing in college here all said and done.

Reports are they wanted DK and Deebo. He DRAFTED Lance for what? His ability to throw a two yard slant or a screen pass? f**k no.

Not a chance kyle plays "conservative" if he's got Allen/burrow/Herbert/Mahomes. Talent matters with play calling.

Jimmy? Jimmy has the 3rd highest air yards ever behind Otto Graham and one other per GP. Also per Greg Panelli, this is certainly a bottom tier passing game here; even with Brock, in volume and design and priority.

https://castbox.fm/x/33gtE

Yes, Kyle would change the whole offense for Trey but clearly, he's not into that anymore. He loves his Cousins, Garoppolo and Brock-style QB's > Griffin and Lance.

And since he runs this b***h, there's no doubt this is how HE rolls after 7 years.

As to Jimmy back in a spread offense, I actually expect him to become more of a check down QB in that system. Here? We had no check downs options here for his career, nor deep threats so he and Kyle lived in the 7 to 15 yard range, live or die. That's why he's #3 all time in that stat.

What does Danny Gray prove to you? He'll be lucky to steal 100 snaps from Aiyuk at the X. Kyle likes versatility and different skill sets for scheming. Nothing more. None of the guys you listed are consistent deep threats here. Not even close.

Kyle is conservative by nature esp. as a HC where he's responsible for an entire team, not just a YOLO OC trying to get a HCing job. Here are additional examples of that:

https://castbox.fm/x/33TOq

You need to get your head out of the clouds and focus more on who Kyle is here after 7 years. This is his team. His system. His philosophy. And his personnel. He's the one constant in a consistent theme despite the players changing.

Um excuse me for doubting your source, but how does it make sense for Jimmy to have the "3rd highest air yards ever" when he's ranked in the late 20s and 30s or worse his entire career at total completed air yards except for 2019 and 2021 (when he was 17th), and the same in completed air yards per pass attempt except for 2019 (16th) and 2021 (7th, his best year by far).

It's not my source but I expanded upon what he said on the podcast a page back.

I found this too but not sure how this stacks up with other career numbers...or if it's PFF, NextGen, etc. or the specific article.

8.28 yards per air yard attempt:
https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/jimmy-garoppolo-air-yards-per-attempt-career

No short game. No deep game. But when you ride or die in that MOF 7 to 15 yards, that certainly elevates this average stat.

That's not air yards, that's yards per attempt. If Jimmy had 8.28 yards in the air per attempt he'd be about twice the all time record. 14289 career yards divided by 1726 career attempts = 8.279 yards per attempt.

His career air yards per attempt is 5385 air yards divided by EDIT (air yards only goes back to 2018 on PFR, so instead of 1726, this should be 1454) 1454 attempts which is: 3.70 air yards per attempt. This is fairly average or lower. However in 2021 he broke his own trend and had a super high 4.2 air yards per pass attempt, which was 7th best in the NFL.

For comparison, Josh Allen's career completed air yards per attempt is 4.26.

Edited because air yards on pfr only goes back to 2018.

Air yards per attempt, he confirmed. Not completed. But you'll have to take it up with Greg Panelli as he was referencing a circulating article on it and then thought it sounded off and researched it himself and confirmed it.

Edit: Found the resource he was referencing.

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-passing-air-yards-per-attempt

Otto Graham - 8.6
Sid Luckman - 8.4
Jimmy Garoppolo - 8.3

Either way, if true, it wouldn't have been on the style many of the Madden generation would have preferred (that average stat was lifted d/t more 20+ explosives).

That is literally yards per attempt. Panelli is simply incorrect. Jimmy's yards per attempt is 8.3 (rounded up). Yards per attempt includes RAC.

"Kyle Shanahan: 49ers have not talked to Trey Lance about potential trade."

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2023/06/06/kyle-shanahan-49ers-have-not-talked-to-trey-lance-about-potential-trade/

And why would Shanny talk to him about this anyway? Had to be from Grant Cohn, dumb question

Handwriting is on the wall, BCB is the starter meaning TL has no future with the 9ers.... now the only question is how/when will they part ways with him? Salvage a day 3 pick for him or not execute his option year and let him walk in 2025. At this point I think Shannalynch is trying to save face over the monumental blunder of drafting TL. Trading him for a 5th rounder would be an admission of absolute failure, but letting him walk two years from now allows them to utilize a narrative of "playing their hand" to the fullest... I believe they wanted to move him prior to the draft but nobody in the league wanted him.... lately they have been speaking about him in glowing terms which I believe is a marketing campaign to puff his trade value, and I think they will try to highlight TL in the preseason (as much as TL is able to do this)... trade deadline is October, and QB needy teams get desperate for a solution so it is entirely possible TL is moved up the deadline.