Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I think Woo simply has a problem with your wording. Brock doesnt have a "mean" to regress to, because we only have the sample we have....which was basically elite play. You cant use other QB's mean and apply it to Brock. Unless you want to use his college stats (which would be silly), there is no mean to regress to. All we have is consistent play.

Now, its a little nitpicky for Woo to call you out on your wording, as we all know exactly what you are trying to say (which isnt necessarily wrong). But he is correct.

Totally disagree. If you played to the level as the last pick in the draft in college for multiple years….Then all of a sudden play damn good ball for 7 games AND part of the reason for that is TD% and TD/INT ratio (which are extremely volatile stats). Yeah it's reasonable to assume regression. Toss in some questionable film that no one wants to touch on because they want him to be great so bad…look I hope he balls out forever and there is no drop off. To assume there will be none is in fact silly. Especially with no off season and a massive injury to his throwing arm.

Add whatever with woo.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I think Woo simply has a problem with your wording. Brock doesnt have a "mean" to regress to, because we only have the sample we have....which was basically elite play. You cant use other QB's mean and apply it to Brock. Unless you want to use his college stats (which would be silly), there is no mean to regress to. All we have is consistent play.

Now, its a little nitpicky for Woo to call you out on your wording, as we all know exactly what you are trying to say (which isnt necessarily wrong). But he is correct.

Totally disagree. If you played to the level as the last pick in the draft in college for multiple years….Then all of a sudden play damn good ball for 7 games AND part of the reason for that is TD% and TD/INT ratio (which are extremely volatile stats). Yeah it's reasonable to assume regression. Toss in some questionable film that no one wants to touch on because they want him to be great so bad…look I hope he balls out forever and there is no drop off. To assume there will be none is in fact silly. Especially with no off season and a massive injury to his throwing arm.

Add whatever with woo.

I think you are still misunderstanding. No one is objecting to the possibility that Purdy will regress. It's just when you use the word "mean."

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Because for some the desire for Trey to fail supercedes the desire for anyone else to succeed.

Nonsense. Some people just can't stand Trey NOT being the guy. I have no idea why.

Some folks get emotionally invested to players before they earn it. Some just can't admit they let their expectations get the better of their common sense. Some can't get past the unreasonable amount of draft capital we gave up to get the kid, so it's either he starts or is an automatic bust, forget that we have a guy we pay next to nothing for that played at an all pro level to end last season. I think Trey will be good eventually, but things beyond anyone's control have set him back a couple of years. We will know after this season if Trey will be here or not long term, his fifth year option comes up, whether they take it or not will tell us all we need to know. I think we should keep him around, get him some playing time when games aren't on the line, and hope he shows enough to compete for the starting job down the line.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
I think you are still misunderstanding. No one is objecting to the possibility that Purdy will regress. It's just when you use the word "mean."

That's fair.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Checking in on the Bucs' QB competition between Baker Mayfield and Kyle Trask. #GoBucs pic.twitter.com/8kZQzEbdsp

— Kyle Burger (@kyle_burger) May 30, 2023

this is hilarious lmao. Things could be a hell of a lot worse, gents. I'll take Lance/Purdy/darnold over any of the bucs QBs in a heartbeat. Lol what a disaster.i think the bucs will give the cards a run for their money on the #1 pick

Baker beat out Darnold just last year.

Certainly not a fan but that tells you how much work Kyle has to do with Sam.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Because for some the desire for Trey to fail supercedes the desire for anyone else to succeed.

Nonsense. Some people just can't stand Trey NOT being the guy. I have no idea why.

There are people out there like that but I have not seen any of them posting here.

Every single person defending Trey here simply wants to see more before calling his career. Yet there are numerous people who downplay what he's shown so far and make it seem like every start of his outside of Houston(which is still diminished to being only a half of ok play if that against a terrible team) is like Sam Darnold's "I see ghosts" game.

He has only played about a quarter of decent football, and it was against one of the worst teams in football. I like Trey, and I think he can get better. At some point he's gotta step up and show us he can do it. He hasn't, whether it's his fault or not (I don't think it is). It's just unlucky injuries, lack of experience, and another guy on the roster being flat out better at playing quarterback. I'm down with keeping Trey around, starter or not, and getting him some playing time when we can. I never expected him to be able to step right in and win, knowing how little football he has played. I think unrealistic expectations are the source of the harsh criticism he gets. Folks thought he was gonna be ready right out of the gate, which was never gonna happen. He didn't even look all that comfortable when they handed him the job last year. Patience is going to be the name of the game with Trey.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by tankle104:
I'd like to see more of Trey, just not if Brock is healthy, because I think he's the better qb short and long term. I don't evaluate QBs solely based on physical skill set.

im also not disillusioned and think he has played well. I think his best game was Houston and I'd classify it as "okay". I think his other two starts were bad performances.

i also don't think that means he's a bad qb. I just think he's very inexperienced and it's evident. I also don't think 5-10 nice plays/throws out 100 is enough to convince me he has tremendous potential, especially when he's missed half of those throws.

im still hoping the young man has a great camp and shows huge strides. I don't think he's going to be a failure in the nfl or anything, we just evaluate potential different and I think we have a much better option for the team short and long term. It has more to do with brock than it does Lance on why Idc to see more of Lance. But I'm also not going to sit here and lie about what I think his performances were.

has Kyle even ever said that Lance had a good game after one of his regular season starts?

I think some people embellish how "bad" he's played.

not sure how completing 70% of your passes for 250 yards a couple TDs and a 113.5 QB rating is considered okay? that was the only game he had Kittle in.

brock had two games where he threw more yards. Two games where he threw more TDs and two games completing more passes. That's including the playoffs and that's with CMC and a defense that actually turned the ball over.

He played decent in the 4th quarter of that Texans game. The rest of the game he was having trouble with sailing balls. I just watched it last night to make sure my memory of it was not colored by time. We definitely need to see more of him now that he's healthy. He'll get some 11 on 11 during training camp and preseason. It's going to be interesting to see if he's any better at quarterbacking. As far as draft capital is concerned, no one cares where you were drafted, or how much you cost, as long as you can play. As long as the team is winning, nobody cares who cost how many picks.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
He played decent in the 4th quarter of that Texans game. The rest of the game he was having trouble with sailing balls. I just watched it last night to make sure my memory of it was not colored by time. We definitely need to see more of him now that he's healthy. He'll get some 11 on 11 during training camp and preseason. It's going to be interesting to see if he's any better at quarterbacking. As far as draft capital is concerned, no one cares where you were drafted, or how much you cost, as long as you can play. As long as the team is winning, nobody cares who cost how many picks.

Not bad for a player with very little experience practicing with the scout team all year and saving the team's chances in making the playoffs. And while having a compromised finger on his throwing hand.

Originally posted by eric_anthony:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
He played decent in the 4th quarter of that Texans game. The rest of the game he was having trouble with sailing balls. I just watched it last night to make sure my memory of it was not colored by time. We definitely need to see more of him now that he's healthy. He'll get some 11 on 11 during training camp and preseason. It's going to be interesting to see if he's any better at quarterbacking. As far as draft capital is concerned, no one cares where you were drafted, or how much you cost, as long as you can play. As long as the team is winning, nobody cares who cost how many picks.

Not bad for a player with very little experience practicing with the scout team all year and saving the team's chances in making the playoffs. And while having a compromised finger on his throwing hand.

It was great for someone who has played as little football as Trey actually has. I like Trey, you can go back to my early posts in this thread and see I was on board from before we drafted him. I am however not so emotionally attached to any quarterback on our roster that I'm going to pretend that he's shown very much to get my hopes up over. Nor am I of the opinion that he can't be good at a later point. I'm not willing to put up with losing to get him the experience he needs though. If he can show that he can run the offense at least as competently as Purdy did last year, that's awesome. That's what he's gotta do though.

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Yup he did. As I said any excuse to bring the guy down. The fact that this needs to be explained is absolutely astonishing to me. To think practicing with a great player and learning tips and tricks from him will amounts to nothing is just dumb. I'm sorry but players are always learning and training with others. This is common sense.....

"So say Kyle Shanahan, John Lynch and Jeff Christensen, the private quarterbacks coach who analyzed Lance's throwing motion and worked with him earlier in the offseason. In a phone interview with The Athletic this week, Christensen said Lance's biggest breakthrough came when he stood behind his most famous client, Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes, and watched him throw."

"I said, 'Watch this. Watch what he does here,'" Christensen recounted. "It was something I was telling him to do that he wasn't quite doing. And then he saw Patrick apply it perfectly. And I think that visual buy-in, that mental buy-in, helped him past that mental hump."

"And to his credit he just kept getting better," he continued. "(Over) the last seven days, every day was a substantial jump."
https://theathletic.com/4533179/2023/05/19/49ers-trey-lance-patrick-mahomes/

My point isn't Trey specific. If Purdy was working out with Joe Burrow I would feel the same way. Joe wouldn't be the guy teaching Brock much of anything. Even the article I posted. The coach told him to WATCH Patrick all he did was watch him run a drill. It could have been any Joe Blow running that drill that Trey had to watch to learn.

You are correct in that other QBs work out with each other all the time. You don't hear about other guys working out together. I wonder why that is.... because it's not a big deal. This board starving for any ounce of positive Trey news turned it into a bigger deal than what it is.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by Stanley:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Because for some the desire for Trey to fail supercedes the desire for anyone else to succeed.

Nonsense. Some people just can't stand Trey NOT being the guy. I have no idea why.

Some folks get emotionally invested to players before they earn it. Some just can't admit they let their expectations get the better of their common sense. Some can't get past the unreasonable amount of draft capital we gave up to get the kid, so it's either he starts or is an automatic bust, forget that we have a guy we pay next to nothing for that played at an all pro level to end last season. I think Trey will be good eventually, but things beyond anyone's control have set him back a couple of years. We will know after this season if Trey will be here or not long term, his fifth year option comes up, whether they take it or not will tell us all we need to know. I think we should keep him around, get him some playing time when games aren't on the line, and hope he shows enough to compete for the starting job down the line.

I read the first sentence and thought you were talking about Jimmy G.

Trey's done everything asked of him and then some but he's been injured. Nothing bad to say about him and he's continuing to work now that he's healthy

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by TreyDeyEeyDey:
Yup he did. As I said any excuse to bring the guy down. The fact that this needs to be explained is absolutely astonishing to me. To think practicing with a great player and learning tips and tricks from him will amounts to nothing is just dumb. I'm sorry but players are always learning and training with others. This is common sense.....

"So say Kyle Shanahan, John Lynch and Jeff Christensen, the private quarterbacks coach who analyzed Lance's throwing motion and worked with him earlier in the offseason. In a phone interview with The Athletic this week, Christensen said Lance's biggest breakthrough came when he stood behind his most famous client, Chiefs quarterback Patrick Mahomes, and watched him throw."

"I said, 'Watch this. Watch what he does here,'" Christensen recounted. "It was something I was telling him to do that he wasn't quite doing. And then he saw Patrick apply it perfectly. And I think that visual buy-in, that mental buy-in, helped him past that mental hump."

"And to his credit he just kept getting better," he continued. "(Over) the last seven days, every day was a substantial jump."
https://theathletic.com/4533179/2023/05/19/49ers-trey-lance-patrick-mahomes/

My point isn't Trey specific. If Purdy was working out with Joe Burrow I would feel the same way. Joe wouldn't be the guy teaching Brock much of anything. Even the article I posted. The coach told him to WATCH Patrick all he did was watch him run a drill. It could have been any Joe Blow running that drill that Trey had to watch to learn.

You are correct in that other QBs work out with each other all the time. You don't hear about other guys working out together. I wonder why that is.... because it's not a big deal. This board starving for any ounce of positive Trey news turned it into a bigger deal than what it is.

I call bs. For example I went golfing with a guy who much better golfer than I. I sat back back and watched how he approached the game, how he lined up, his swing, his follow through. I learned a lot. The same this was said about Trey standing behind Mahomes. To sit and act like there were no benefits is just dumb. Now I'm calling your argument dumb not you. There are so many things that can be taught and the coach admitted that Trey picked up things he saw Mahomes do. This is not rocket science bro. This is very basic s**t that there are plenty of things to learn from other players.

SWH explained perfectly. "when Jimmy or anyone else for that matter, make a fantastic play, an overwhelming majority of posters are in agreement about the play. There is no need for massive discussions on great plays, because regardless of personal opinion on the player, the play was great! There is no need for discussion.

Take the Kittle play for example. I have posted many times in this thread that Jimmy made an incredible throw, but he chose the wrong receiver and that ultimately led to an incompletion and a field goal instead of an easy TD. Yet, the usual suspects couldnt even take that "criticism" in stride and spent pages arguing with people. They call it nitpicking. They call it hating. They even make things up like Aaron Donald clogged up a passing lane. They call it irrelevant because we won.

The reason the negatives outweigh the positives in terms of post count is because you dont see the people who dislike Jimmy spending pages arguing good plays like you see the people who love Jimmy spend pages arguing bad plays." -SWH

Well, personally, I wouldn't use SWH as a resource for anything where objectivity is required but that's just me. The first bolded goes to an earlier point about a post from someone who said that Lance was not being given his props for the handful of good plays he's managed to put up in his limited starts and that people who weren't all in on him were just looking for things to criticize. Not sure how that is any different than what is being said here,

As to the second bolded, Oh, SWH decided he chose the wrong receiver. Well, gosh, it must be true then. Doesn't alter the fact that Kittle dropped a ball that practically hit him in the hands and would have gone for a first down. And no, it wasn't people who supported Jimmy's tenure who were the ones posting all the GIF's trying to prove that it was a bad pass. But according to SWH the posters who were calling BS on that take, were the ones who driving that argument because, in his view, it was a "bad" play.

As to the third bolded, the fact that the team wins is always relevant. If there are bumps and miscues along the way, you're glad that they didn't alter the outcome and hope that the team learns something from them, but it's the win that matters. Steve Young once famously said that it is never enough to just win in SF, you have to earn style points as well. Unfortunately, that still sems to be the case today, and is an attitude I don't have much patience for.

As to the fourth bolded, why would anyone argue over good plays, it is some people's unwillingness to acknowledge that they even exist that becomes the sticking point. As regards the second part of that sentence, as I recall it was SWH who was leading the charge on that whole, was the pass to Deebo a good pass or not, so I'll have to call BS on that as well. And yes, the fact that the pass did go for a score, in a game they won, does make all of the other noise around it mostly irrelevant.

The last point is, I never get "mad" over legitimate criticism, what pisses me off is ignorance and arrogance and hypocrisy. which are all pretty well represented in this forum, regardless of what side of any particular question you may be on. I also have a slightly different perspective on the team than most people. They're the only sports team I follow, since I lived in San Francisco when Montana came to town and through most of the glory years. I always prefer to see them win rather than lose but I don't get too bent out of shape about it either way. It sucks that Jimmy missed the throw to Sanders against KC and that the defense collapsed in the 4th quarter, but it didn't ruin my day or anything. I might have felt differently if that had been their first Super Bowl loss, but that ship had already sailed thanks to Harbaugh and Kaepernick.

I appreciated what Jimmy brought to the team after so many years of struggle and was willing to defend him on those grounds but now he's gone and there's a new season to look forward to. I'm really encouraged by what Purdy showed last year and hope that Lance has a chance to finally show what he might be capable of. Regardless of how he fares, you will never see me in here ripping him for his perceived shortcomings. As long as the team is winning, I am not too concerned about how they get there. If that means passing eight times and running the ball for almost 300 yards, I'm cool with that, in fact, I thought that was great. Survive a five turnover game and win, whew, who'da thunk it. Score 9 pts and win in a downpour, man, I hope the weather is better next week. Offense sucks and the defense pulls it out, go D! In the end it's just a game, and probably not worth the energy and emotion that some people seem to put into it. Go Niners!

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Totally disagree. If you played to the level as the last pick in the draft in college for multiple years….Then all of a sudden play damn good ball for 7 games AND part of the reason for that is TD% and TD/INT ratio (which are extremely volatile stats). Yeah it's reasonable to assume regression. Toss in some questionable film that no one wants to touch on because they want him to be great so bad…look I hope he balls out forever and there is no drop off. To assume there will be none is in fact silly. Especially with no off season and a massive injury to his throwing arm.

Add whatever with woo.

He is already great. Why be mad because someone thinks he is great?