Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by NYniner85:
He played like Jimmy who could extend plays in the short-term.

Which is exactly what people wanted during the 21 draft.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:
When does training camp begin? Has that been announced? I want to calculate how many weeks he will have throwing rehab before it starts. I project 6-7. He will be more than halfway through it before camp even starts

This is what I have, I think some of the actual dates are TBD.

May 18-21: (Tentative): NFLPA Rookie Premiere, TBD.
May 22-24: Spring League Meeting, TBD.
August 3-6: Hall of Fame Weekend in Canton, Ohio
Sept. 7: NFL Kickoff Game
https://www.49ers.com/news/key-dates-49ers-2023-nfl-offseason-free-agency-draft-combine-contract

I heard David Lombardi say he thinks it'll start July 26 or 27. Which would be about the time it usually starts.

Lombardi is usually spot on with those kinds of things. Purdy is ahead of schedule, and I so look forward to seeing both Trey and Brock compete.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I would think everyone would want Lance to be the guy because that means he's playing better than Brock, who was playing pretty well. I just think his upside is much greater…doesn't mean anything if he can't play though.

Right, and you want the guy who is going to be the best long term QB to play.

And we won't know if Lance can be that guy unless he does play.

You argue incessantly that nobody knows what Trey is, or can be, with such a limited sample.

And you're critical of a decision to roll with Brock because he is the 'safe option' and have lambasted Kyle for his unwillingness to develop (ie. play) the player he invested so heavily in.

----

But somehow it's 'b******t' and a 'twisting interpretation' to say that you want Lance to play. Your position is clear whether you want to deny it in plain English or not.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Right, and you want the guy who is going to be the best long term QB to play.

And we won't know if Lance can be that guy unless he does play.

You argue incessantly that nobody knows what Trey is, or can be, with such a limited sample.

And you're critical of a decision to roll with Brock because he is the 'safe option' and have lambasted Kyle for his unwillingness to develop (ie. play) the player he invested so heavily in.

----

But somehow it's 'b******t' and a 'twisting interpretation' to say that you want Lance to play. Your position is clear whether you want to deny it in plain English or not.

I believe NY would support Brock way more than krizay/Charlie/river would ever support Lance.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
I believe NY would support Brock way more than krizay/Charlie/river would ever support Lance.

Maybe that's true but I honestly doubt it. Those guys, well Krizay and Chuck, are consistent in their arguments. The difference in the arguments is how they view potential at the position, and how they weigh certain qualities.

It's flat out fine to have different opinions on different players, and to be clear I'm not criticizing NY for his preference. I'm just stating it's incredibly clear what it is.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
I believe NY would support Brock way more than krizay/Charlie/river would ever support Lance.

Easily.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
Right, and you want the guy who is going to be the best long term QB to play.

And we won't know if Lance can be that guy unless he does play.

You argue incessantly that nobody knows what Trey is, or can be, with such a limited sample.

And you're critical of a decision to roll with Brock because he is the 'safe option' and have lambasted Kyle for his unwillingness to develop (ie. play) the player he invested so heavily in.

----

But somehow it's 'b******t' and a 'twisting interpretation' to say that you want Lance to play. Your position is clear whether you want to deny it in plain English or not.

I believe NY would support Brock way more than krizay/Charlie/river would ever support Lance.

Lol this. There are varying levels of degree to the bias.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
I believe NY would support Brock way more than krizay/Charlie/river would ever support Lance.

Maybe that's true but I honestly doubt it. Those guys, well Krizay and Chuck, are consistent in their arguments. The difference in the arguments is how they view potential at the position, and how they weigh certain qualities.

It's flat out fine to have different opinions on different players, and to be clear I'm not criticizing NY for his preference. I'm just stating it's incredibly clear what it is.

I feel very confident in saying he would. He's not the type to just stick to his guns to avoid having to admit he's wrong,

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:
When does training camp begin? Has that been announced? I want to calculate how many weeks he will have throwing rehab before it starts. I project 6-7. He will be more than halfway through it before camp even starts

This is what I have, I think some of the actual dates are TBD.

May 18-21: (Tentative): NFLPA Rookie Premiere, TBD.
May 22-24: Spring League Meeting, TBD.
August 3-6: Hall of Fame Weekend in Canton, Ohio
Sept. 7: NFL Kickoff Game
https://www.49ers.com/news/key-dates-49ers-2023-nfl-offseason-free-agency-draft-combine-contract

I heard David Lombardi say he thinks it'll start July 26 or 27. Which would be about the time it usually starts.

Lombardi is usually spot on with those kinds of things. Purdy is ahead of schedule, and I so look forward to seeing both Trey and Brock compete.

Same. I just want all our guys healthy and improving. Once they're all healthy, we can start to get a much better idea of what we have.

having Trey healthy is important for offensive packages too. I think that even if Brock is the starter, Kyle will have trick packages with Trey. If he's healed up, hopefully he do passes instead of runs all the time.

i just want us healthy so bad 😭.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

I can't speak for others, but speaking for myself, McNair was a beast. He had the crap beat out of him regularly and still made plays. He outplayed his circumstances, and you would only know that if you watched a lot of him. I loved watching him play and would always tune in to see what he'd do next. He was a bonafide playmaker. You don't get your number retired without being a special player. His MVP year was DEFINITELY NOT a joke.

He had a couple good receiving weapons in Wycheck and Derrick Mason, but neither were superstars or TD major red zone threats. Mason was very very good for a long time, extremely underrated IMO. But the year TEN went to the Super Bowl, their leading receiver was Dyson with barely over 650 yds. Again, I always felt McNair played above the caliber of team that was around him,

This year McNair missed 5 games only had 2100 passing with 12 tds and 8 ints. He actually got outplayed (statistically speaking) by Neil O'Donnell 1300 10-5 in only half the games.

That said mofo was tough as nails. I actually remember a coworker of mine saying... "if I hear them call McNair a warrior one more time....."

I do remember that. McNair I fully agree isn't a HOF QB, but he had a very good career as one of the top dual threat QBs in that era.

I'm probably, well we're all probably getting a bit off topic, but the point is more that I still think Trey has a great chance to have a career with multiple pro bowls in his future. I believe in the kid a ton. It's just my opinion. Even if I didn't believe in him, I'd have to be willing to say either way, I haven't seen anything yet to say for sure he's gonna go one way or the other at this point.

I think Trey has the fixings for a very good qb in this league. I really do. Some think I hate him, which I don't, I just am very weary of thinking he can do anything until it's seen. For me personally, he doesn't have any tape in his life that makes me think he is "special".

and I think that's the biggest disconnect between someone like myself and NY. I don't want a "damn good" qb. I think we had that in Jimmy (maybe not as good as McNair but still damn good).

i want the next "Special" QB. I want a guy that when the top 5 guys in the league are talked about, he's in the Convo. Where teams desire to get someone of his caliber. Someone who will be in the HOF. A guy that plays at the level of Brees/Young/Montana/Manning/Rodgers etc.
those legitimate greats that are franchise QBs.

Can Lance get there? Idk. None of us do. I have no issue with some thinking he can/will. I genuinely hope he does if he ends up starting for us. I just feel like I have a lot more reasons to question if he can than to believe he can, at this point. I just want to see Lance in tough football situations that he hasn't been in before. Which isn't necessarily his fault but until I see those, I'm skeptical.

the big thing that I really like about Lance and Purdy, and I feel like this gets often overlooked by fans in general, is their character. I think both guys have the right mental makeup. I think Purdy is ahead right now in leadership because of his experience, but I also think Lance can get there once he plays more. It's hard to find any qb with the mental makeup they have, it's super cool that we have two.

Yeah I mean, I get what you're saying. I think the agitation with the phrasing is that "good" vs. "darn good" is very different from one person to the next, and even if you elaborate, you still have guys that kind of fall on the spectrum in between.

To me, it's like there's two categories really:

1) Unquestioned Generational Elite/HOF worthy guys - Mahomes/Rodgers/Young/Montana/Brees/Elway/Brady, etc. (but of course some of these guys weren't immediately great)

2) Everybody else on the spectrum between "good" (meaning above average) to "darn good" (IMO, guys who were special talents with elite traits).

And yeah, you have a ton of guys that fall under category #2. From Jimmy G to Alex Smith, to Dak, to Kirk Cousins, to Air McNair or Donovan McNabb in the past (another comparison I've seen for Trey). These guys all have won and some even made it to the super Bowl, but none of the guys listed won one.

You want a guy who can consistently gives you the ability to get there and win it. I get that. We all want that. I definitely don't think we've seen enough of Trey to know what he's gonna be. For that matter, we might not have seen enough to know what Brock's going to be, but it's reeeeeally hard to bet against him based on what he put out right away.

I'd sure love it if we had both the next Brees and the next Mahomes on this squad. All we can do now is speculate.. Ughhh.. Come on Pre-season.. Just get here so we can see these guys play.

I agree with what you're saying. I think most of us end up debating on something that we actually agree on, it's just we have different definitions for some of the words.

but yeah, I want the tier one guy and nothing less. If we don't have that, you keep looking and trying to get one. We never really saw Rodgers play young but I remember his first start before Favre retired and I thought it was clear he was a stud. I don't remember watching Bree's his first season or two.

so if Brock/Lance end up falling in that tier 2 catagory - I want us to keep looking. I'm not saying McNair/Mcnabb etc weren't very good, they were, just not the caliber I want in a qb. I want the Montana/Young caliber like we used to have.

I don't want a program where we HAVE to have a super stacked team to compete for a Super Bowl every year. I want someone who is so good that they elevate everyone around them and can make up for weaknesses on the roster - like Brady/brees/Manning/Rodgers etc did. Because that's when you have a real chance to compete for a chip 10-15 years straight.

there is a reason why a lot of the guys you mentioned really only had 3-5 years of competing for a super bowl. because eventually the roster depleted and they're not good enough to carry everything.

I think it's gonna be real interesting how everything plays out. We didn't expect to lose four quarterbacks last year and find a seventh round potential star in the process.

Who knows what this year holds. Does Brock take an even bigger step forward? Or is there a big step back, and if so, do Trey or Sam get a shot and shine? (although I continue to have no confidence is Sammy D..)

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Lol this. There are varying levels of degree to the bias.

Isn't everybody arguing for what they think is best for the team? I see all three of those guys actively posting here in spite of disagreements with the team's decision making.

If you want to judge levels of bias, I suggest doing it by whether an argument is supported with at least some form of evidence and whether the logical underpinning of the argument is applied consistently (to multiple players in this context).

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I can't speak for others, but speaking for myself, McNair was a beast. He had the crap beat out of him regularly and still made plays. He outplayed his circumstances, and you would only know that if you watched a lot of him. I loved watching him play and would always tune in to see what he'd do next. He was a bonafide playmaker. You don't get your number retired without being a special player. His MVP year was DEFINITELY NOT a joke.

He had a couple good receiving weapons in Wycheck and Derrick Mason, but neither were superstars or TD major red zone threats. Mason was very very good for a long time, extremely underrated IMO. But the year TEN went to the Super Bowl, their leading receiver was Dyson with barely over 650 yds. Again, I always felt McNair played above the caliber of team that was around him,

This year McNair missed 5 games only had 2100 passing with 12 tds and 8 ints. He actually got outplayed (statistically speaking) by Neil O'Donnell 1300 10-5 in only half the games.

That said mofo was tough as nails. I actually remember a coworker of mine saying... "if I hear them call McNair a warrior one more time....."

I do remember that. McNair I fully agree isn't a HOF QB, but he had a very good career as one of the top dual threat QBs in that era.

I'm probably, well we're all probably getting a bit off topic, but the point is more that I still think Trey has a great chance to have a career with multiple pro bowls in his future. I believe in the kid a ton. It's just my opinion. Even if I didn't believe in him, I'd have to be willing to say either way, I haven't seen anything yet to say for sure he's gonna go one way or the other at this point.

I think Trey has the fixings for a very good qb in this league. I really do. Some think I hate him, which I don't, I just am very weary of thinking he can do anything until it's seen. For me personally, he doesn't have any tape in his life that makes me think he is "special".

and I think that's the biggest disconnect between someone like myself and NY. I don't want a "damn good" qb. I think we had that in Jimmy (maybe not as good as McNair but still damn good).

i want the next "Special" QB. I want a guy that when the top 5 guys in the league are talked about, he's in the Convo. Where teams desire to get someone of his caliber. Someone who will be in the HOF. A guy that plays at the level of Brees/Young/Montana/Manning/Rodgers etc.
those legitimate greats that are franchise QBs.

Can Lance get there? Idk. None of us do. I have no issue with some thinking he can/will. I genuinely hope he does if he ends up starting for us. I just feel like I have a lot more reasons to question if he can than to believe he can, at this point. I just want to see Lance in tough football situations that he hasn't been in before. Which isn't necessarily his fault but until I see those, I'm skeptical.

the big thing that I really like about Lance and Purdy, and I feel like this gets often overlooked by fans in general, is their character. I think both guys have the right mental makeup. I think Purdy is ahead right now in leadership because of his experience, but I also think Lance can get there once he plays more. It's hard to find any qb with the mental makeup they have, it's super cool that we have two.

Yeah I mean, I get what you're saying. I think the agitation with the phrasing is that "good" vs. "darn good" is very different from one person to the next, and even if you elaborate, you still have guys that kind of fall on the spectrum in between.

To me, it's like there's two categories really:

1) Unquestioned Generational Elite/HOF worthy guys - Mahomes/Rodgers/Young/Montana/Brees/Elway/Brady, etc. (but of course some of these guys weren't immediately great)

2) Everybody else on the spectrum between "good" (meaning above average) to "darn good" (IMO, guys who were special talents with elite traits).

And yeah, you have a ton of guys that fall under category #2. From Jimmy G to Alex Smith, to Dak, to Kirk Cousins, to Air McNair or Donovan McNabb in the past (another comparison I've seen for Trey). These guys all have won and some even made it to the super Bowl, but none of the guys listed won one.

You want a guy who can consistently gives you the ability to get there and win it. I get that. We all want that. I definitely don't think we've seen enough of Trey to know what he's gonna be. For that matter, we might not have seen enough to know what Brock's going to be, but it's reeeeeally hard to bet against him based on what he put out right away.

I'd sure love it if we had both the next Brees and the next Mahomes on this squad. All we can do now is speculate.. Ughhh.. Come on Pre-season.. Just get here so we can see these guys play.

I agree with what you're saying. I think most of us end up debating on something that we actually agree on, it's just we have different definitions for some of the words.

but yeah, I want the tier one guy and nothing less. If we don't have that, you keep looking and trying to get one. We never really saw Rodgers play young but I remember his first start before Favre retired and I thought it was clear he was a stud. I don't remember watching Bree's his first season or two.

so if Brock/Lance end up falling in that tier 2 catagory - I want us to keep looking. I'm not saying McNair/Mcnabb etc weren't very good, they were, just not the caliber I want in a qb. I want the Montana/Young caliber like we used to have.

I don't want a program where we HAVE to have a super stacked team to compete for a Super Bowl every year. I want someone who is so good that they elevate everyone around them and can make up for weaknesses on the roster - like Brady/brees/Manning/Rodgers etc did. Because that's when you have a real chance to compete for a chip 10-15 years straight.

there is a reason why a lot of the guys you mentioned really only had 3-5 years of competing for a super bowl. because eventually the roster depleted and they're not good enough to carry everything.

I think it's gonna be real interesting how everything plays out. We didn't expect to lose four quarterbacks last year and find a seventh round potential star in the process.

Who knows what this year holds. Does Brock take an even bigger step forward? Or is there a big step back, and if so, do Trey or Sam get a shot and shine? (although I continue to have no confidence is Sammy D..)

The odds of losing four QBs is so slim that it's infuriating that it happened to us, especially with how hot we were. Just… hurts. Lol

i can't believe Brock did what he did. Lol just incredible. Hopefully this is one of those times where in 15 years they're making a documentary about how improbable his career was and won a chip! (Hopefully! Haha).

i think Brock is going to take a giant step forward once he's healthy. I really do. I also think Lance and darnold are going to take big steps forward.

with Lance finally healthy and able to work on the nuances of his craft, especially with Purdy out for the off season program, it'll be essentially his first time grinding without injury holding him back. How big of a step is the question, ya know? Will he be nearly as good as jimmy operating of the offense? How much will his accuracy improve? Let's say he improves those things - I wonder what difference that'll make in kyles play calling.

i think darnold finally feels like he is in a place he's wanted and believed in. He also doesn't have the stress of trying to overcompensate for a crap roster. He can trust in the coaches and a proven system. That kind of stuff should help put his mind at ease and give him better focus. I think Griese will do wonders when it comes to improving his turnovers as well.

if they stay healthy, I think they all can take a big jump forward, which would be great. I still think Purdy comes out on top but at least we will have awesome backups

I want a Patrick Mahomes. I don't want middle of the road or second tier. I want top tier top three elite best of the best. We had Jimmy and we lost to Mahomes and Stafford despite having the more complete teams around the QB.

I want a stud under center with both tangibles and intangibles because I don't ever want to lose again due to having a less talented QB. I want elite talent at the position whether it be Lance Darnold or Purdy. I want to win it all this year

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by tankle104:
When does training camp begin? Has that been announced? I want to calculate how many weeks he will have throwing rehab before it starts. I project 6-7. He will be more than halfway through it before camp even starts

This is what I have, I think some of the actual dates are TBD.

May 18-21: (Tentative): NFLPA Rookie Premiere, TBD.
May 22-24: Spring League Meeting, TBD.
August 3-6: Hall of Fame Weekend in Canton, Ohio
Sept. 7: NFL Kickoff Game
https://www.49ers.com/news/key-dates-49ers-2023-nfl-offseason-free-agency-draft-combine-contract

I heard David Lombardi say he thinks it'll start July 26 or 27. Which would be about the time it usually starts.

Lombardi is usually spot on with those kinds of things. Purdy is ahead of schedule, and I so look forward to seeing both Trey and Brock compete.

Same. I just want all our guys healthy and improving. Once they're all healthy, we can start to get a much better idea of what we have.

having Trey healthy is important for offensive packages too. I think that even if Brock is the starter, Kyle will have trick packages with Trey. If he's healed up, hopefully he do passes instead of runs all the time.

i just want us healthy so bad 😭.

Quoting somebody that knows a bit about football.

Is this the strongest quarterback room you've had since being the coach of the 49ers?
"I don't know. I don't want to compare it to other years, but we have two guys who are talented enough to be taken in the top five of the draft and we have another guy who played like it last year. I like the three guys we got and I've always been a fan of [QB] Brandon Allen. Just watching him throughout his career and to be able to get him in here also, I feel really fortunate with our four."

Folks (like me) can say Kyle got stupid lucky in picking Brock, but I have to give Kyle credit for not putting Purdy on the practice squad and letting Sudfeld go despite it costing the team 2 million dollars in dead money. He saw something in Brock from the git-go, and he also saw something in Trey, Sam and Brandon. Brock, to me, is a generational talent. Folks remember that Jimmy had an initial 5-0 record, but Brock had a *7-0* record as a *rookie* and two of them were against elite playoff teams and defenses. Kyle sees something in Trey, and I think - given Kyle's recent history on picking QB's, - you have to respect that. Contrast that with Mooch who let Kurt Warner walk. What a doofus.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
I want a Patrick Mahomes. I don't want middle of the road or second tier. I want top tier top three elite best of the best. We had Jimmy and we lost to Mahomes and Stafford despite having the more complete teams around the QB.

I want a stud under center with both tangibles and intangibles because I don't ever want to lose again due to having a less talented QB. I want elite talent at the position whether it be Lance Darnold or Purdy. I want to win it all this year

What if you close your eyes and tap your heals three times.