Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Pretty much

lol, you already responded to this post. Sheesh.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
lol, you already responded to this post. Sheesh.

My mistake. Posting while at work on phone. Meant to edit.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
That depends on whether or not they would argue that Purdy didn't benefit from the players around him, and whether or not it was a differentiating factor in a preference for either player. Then it would be hypocritical. Do you see how that didn't happen with Krizay's comment? Maybe he's not putting a heavy emphasis on production and team results when he's deciding who he prefers as prospects, seeing as how they are situationally dependent. Again, he specifically laid out some of his reasoning after your off-the-wall post. A preference for one of the other (Purdy and Lance in this case) wasn't even the context of the conversation. Mac Jones certainly had nothing to do with it.

The next best thing besides assigning arguments to people they aren't making because a comment upsets you is labeling those disagreeable comments as trolling.

Doesn't upset me at all. I just enjoy laughing at the hypocrisy of people. Others got it but somehow it upset you.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Doesn't upset me at all. I just enjoy laughing at the hypocrisy of people. Others got it but somehow it upset you.

lol, sure thing. Others who have the same issues with negative comments about players they like and who build straw man arguments in response. You make sure to double respond to those posts for support. Love the one-way 'hypocrisy' crusade.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
lol, sure thing. Others who have the same issues with negative comments about players they like and who build straw man arguments in response. You make sure to double respond to those posts for support. Love the one-way 'hypocrisy' crusade.

I don't "like" Trey. I'm ambivalent to him. I have no idea how he's gonna turn out. But when one side is krizay and imRicky and the other is waterbear and slc yah I'm good with that one way crusade.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
I don't "like" Trey. I'm ambivalent to him. I have no idea how he's gonna turn out. But when one side is krizay and imRicky and the other is waterbear and slc yah I'm good with that one way crusade.

I didn't need the confirmation, but thanks anyway.

Originally posted by BOI49er:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Lance hasn't played yet. Not even the 49ers know how good he will be. If Purdy didn't exist, Trey's future over the next two years would be fairly certain. The only reason anyone is even entertaining the idea of trading Lance is because of how good Purdy looked. That's where all of you guys miss the boat. It's not about Lance being "at his bust ceiling." It's that with Purdy there is no need to actually wait to see if he hits his ceiling. In other words, the jury is still out on Lance, but the jury is mostly in on Purdy. A dollar in hand is worth more than two dollars you might get in the future.

So Purdy has made Lance and his potential expendable, for the right price. It has almost nothing to do with Lance, who has not developed at a slower than normal rate compared to most other QBs. He hasn't played, so how can we talk about how fast or slow he's developing?

Until one of these guys wins the Super Bowl and beats Mahomes we are keeping both guys on the cheap as long as we can. Purdy looking good or Lance looking good ain't the standard. Winning it ALL is the standard and until then nothing is settled at the QB position

Our stance is by how we did Jimmy is getting to two NFCCG and a Super Bowl ain't enough. You've gotta win the thing with this roster that we know is only hindered by the QB position. We have not been settled at QB since Steve Young for that very reason

Until Trey or Brock wins it all we keep both cheaply UNLESS we get a hella crazy offer to say otherwise. Meanwhile we have to let this QB battle play out this offseason

Yeah we'd only trade Lance if the offer is high enough (probably much higher than most "analysts" think). I don't think Purdy is tradable at all right now. He played too well for the 49ers to consider it, unless Trey or Sam actually play extremely well this year too. Both Trey and Darnold have physical talent Purdy doesn't, though. So if either one looks like they might turn the corner, I'm thinking Purdy might actually be the one traded. But probably not until the last year of his contract.

Man, I've got to disagree with you again, 5. I don't see a scenario where Kyle parts with Brock if you pulled out each one of his teeth and finger nails one at a time. He just demonstrated Way too much promise and aptitude. When you've got enough arm, and he does, an imcremental improvement does not begin to offset seeing the field and quick accurate judgement. That's going to get you more plays per game than an unusually rocket arm. Just being able to be aggressive and putting the play in the quarterback's hands in vulnerable situations is Huge for a smart play caller like Kyle. That's what he wants, and he's Never had that here. Having the confidence in his quarterback he has shown already is the hardest box to fill.

This is a mental position. It takes a serious weakness to trump that.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The situation in which Purdy could be traded is ONLY one in which either Darnold or Lance show they are every bit as good and the team is winning, AND another team offers a significant package. It would be very hard to resist a 1st round pick or two if Darnold or Lance are playing at as high a level (although would a team pay that much knowing the 49ers have too many great QBs?)

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by tankle104:
yeah, it would be a fun topic on here.

Neither of my parents were into sports, but both are born & raised in The City. when I was maybe 9 - My mom had this really cool old school metal paper bin for an office. It had the old school 49ers Logo and Font on it, like the endzone during the playoffs. All red and then all the way around the bin it had all the super bowls we've won with that years superbowl logo/teams/scores. I just thought it was the coolest thing and from there I started looking into the team and reading all the history about them.

Then i became emotionally attached to them. hahahah I've always been someone who believes in studying history to understand the present, so I just did this super deep dive and read about all the coaches, players, seasons, ownership etc. Since the team has been bad a majority of my life, it was a great escape. hahaha

This is a good story. I'll give you a free one of about my own fandom as payment.

I'm one of those weirdos who isn't from the Bay Area. I lived in Washington State when I became a 49er fan, but was exposed to football when I was a kid in Los Angeles a couple years before. Probably by all rights I should be a Rams of Seahag fan, but I chose the good guys (the Rams were already in St. Louis, but they'd been in LA for ages; same with the Raiders being in Oakland). I was just playing an old football video game and picked the team with the coolest uniform colors and most bad ass QB name—for both their QBs: Joe Montana and Steve Young. Who doesn't want a QB named Joe Montana? That's the most badass QB name of all time.

This was around the time when Steve Young and Jerry Rice were all over the media, and something about a guy named Young throwing to a guy named Rice, and a previous guy throwing named Montana intrigued me. And that red and gold color was nice. I wasn't a fan yet, but I was curious about the team so I started reading about them. And that's when I was sold. Bill Walsh. The fact that the guy outsmarted everyone, using brains over brawn. That was the moment I became a 49er fan. It was some old kids book about the history of NFL dynasties that pulled me in (published years before, so the Cowboys weren't mentioned). Basically it broke down every team by a single phrase. For the 49ers it was "Trick play offense, big play defense." This resonated with me so much, because I was a chess loser. The 49ers basically brought chess to football.

So, uniforms, cool names, and brains are what brought me in. And the coolest thing is my brother and I and a couple of friends started emulating the West Coast Offense in street football, and basically dominated everyone we played, even older kids. The fact that the sneaky quick stuff worked even in pickup games just solidified my fandom all the more. Ah, to be a kid again just falling in love with the 49ers.

My only regret is I didn't get to see Super Bowl 29 live. I have several copies of the game (and many others), but I just missed that. Sucks.

That is an awesome story. Fun fact, Tony montana in Scarface was given the last name Montana because of Joe montana!

https://www.vogue.fr/fashion-culture/article/scarface-fun-facts-things-you-didnt-know-about-the-cult-film

so I agree, awesome name. Hahaha the colors were huge for me too. Haha red was always my favorite color, couple that with gold!? Hell yeah. Then the rich history and awesome ownership of Eddie D - I was sold.

I did not know that. Cool to know.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah we'd only trade Lance if the offer is high enough (probably much higher than most "analysts" think). I don't think Purdy is tradable at all right now. He played too well for the 49ers to consider it, unless Trey or Sam actually play extremely well this year too. Both Trey and Darnold have physical talent Purdy doesn't, though. So if either one looks like they might turn the corner, I'm thinking Purdy might actually be the one traded. But probably not until the last year of his contract.

Yeah there is NO way I trade a cheap Purdy with 3 years left on his deal on the cheap even though he is still injured with uncertainty as to what he will be once healed. He is currently if healthy our QB1 according to John and Kyle. That would be foolish. As to Trey, it would require Matt Stafford compensation for what the Niners would likely deem to be a 23 year old franchise guy in the making. Darnold is interesting to have on the roster as well. Still a cheap and potentially very good QB room

The scenario is one in which Lance or Darnold ACTUALLY ARE as good as Purdy. When that happens, and you're offered say, a first and a second, you've got to make a tough decision. Only one guy is getting on the field at a time.

Originally posted by 49erF90:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah we'd only trade Lance if the offer is high enough (probably much higher than most "analysts" think). I don't think Purdy is tradable at all right now. He played too well for the 49ers to consider it, unless Trey or Sam actually play extremely well this year too. Both Trey and Darnold have physical talent Purdy doesn't, though. So if either one looks like they might turn the corner, I'm thinking Purdy might actually be the one traded. But probably not until the last year of his contract.

I don't think Darnold has better physical talent than Purdy.

Define physical talent. If you mean "Can throw harder, can throw farther, and is bigger" then I'd say he has more physical talent.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
and yet "Sam Darnold might be — can I say this — the most talented thrower of the football that the 49ers have ever had," NBC Sports San Francisco reporter Matt Maiocco said during a Thursday appearance on KNBR's "Murph & Mac Podcast.

Especially to the other team

That has indeed been his weakness thus far.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Yeah we'd only trade Lance if the offer is high enough (probably much higher than most "analysts" think). I don't think Purdy is tradable at all right now. He played too well for the 49ers to consider it, unless Trey or Sam actually play extremely well this year too. Both Trey and Darnold have physical talent Purdy doesn't, though. So if either one looks like they might turn the corner, I'm thinking Purdy might actually be the one traded. But probably not until the last year of his contract.

Lance or Darnold, one or the other, would have to be playing at peak years Aaron Rodgers for Shanahan to trade Purdy. The players love Purdy for how he came in and saved the season last year. Purdy has swag that neither of the other two has and the players dig it. Fans love Purdy. He is has that magic Cinderella charisma about him. Most importantly, Kyle loves Purdy. Nope, not getting traded.

I really don't think that's true. I think if either is playing as good as Purdy and the team is winning, AND a team is offering a nice package of picks (first round plus), then I think a tough decision will have to be made. Only one guy gets on the field.

On the other hand, a cost controlled guy like Purdy who is that good, even if he's the backup, is very valuable. So it'd have to be a big package (heh). But if someone comes calling offering two firsts, I think they'd do it.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Perhaps I wasn't clear. The situation in which Purdy could be traded is ONLY one in which either Darnold or Lance show they are every bit as good and the team is winning, AND another team offers a significant package. It would be very hard to resist a 1st round pick or two if Darnold or Lance are playing at as high a level (although would a team pay that much knowing the 49ers have too many great QBs?)

I did not know that. Cool to know.

The scenario is one in which Lance or Darnold ACTUALLY ARE as good as Purdy. When that happens, and you're offered say, a first and a second, you've got to make a tough decision. Only one guy is getting on the field at a time.

Define physical talent. If you mean "Can throw harder, can throw farther, and is bigger" then I'd say he has more physical talent.


That has indeed been his weakness thus far.

I really don't think that's true. I think if either is playing as good as Purdy and the team is winning, AND a team is offering a nice package of picks (first round plus), then I think a tough decision will have to be made. Only one guy gets on the field.

On the other hand, a cost controlled guy like Purdy who is that good, even if he's the backup, is very valuable. So it'd have to be a big package (heh). But if someone comes calling offering two firsts, I think they'd do it.

I don't see a realistic scenario where Lance or Darnold takes the starting job and another team offers that level of compensation for Purdy. Barring absolute freak circumstances, he'd have to be worth that amount now (to other teams of course. He's invaluable to us currently). I wouldn't think he is.

Whoever isn't playing isn't increasing their trade value. Brock's value isn't going to improve, and will likely decrease, if Lance or Darnold take the job.

Like you said, we'd at least be extremely fortified at the position if a worthwhile trade didn't materialize. And maybe we wouldn't have that level of an asking price if one of Lance or Darnold (but mostly Lance) were to reposition themselves as QB1 going forward. Even a couple 2nds would be enticing.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I don't see a realistic scenario where Lance or Darnold takes the starting job and another team offers that level of compensation for Purdy. Barring absolute freak circumstances, he'd have to be worth that amount now (to other teams of course. He's invaluable to us currently). I wouldn't think he is.

Whoever isn't playing isn't increasing their trade value. Brock's value isn't going to improve, and will likely decrease, if Lance or Darnold take the job.

Like you said, we'd at least be extremely fortified at the position if a worthwhile trade didn't materialize. And maybe we wouldn't have that level of an asking price if one of Lance or Darnold (but mostly Lance) were to reposition themselves as QB1 going forward. Even a couple 2nds would be enticing.

Pretty much this. Purdy's value was highest right before the start of the NFCCG. Darnold's value could improve, but not significantly so. He has 50 games worth of bad to average play already out there. Lance's value isn't going up regardless, because by the time he puts enough good on tape, he will need a new contract. That's a lot of risk.

In the end, the 49ers likely part ways with two of the three (keeping, most likely, Brock) over the next two years, while getting minimal trade value in return (2nd or more for anyone other than Brock seems unlikely).

Darnold is a nice story, but the best case scenario is Trey takes the bull by the horns and balls out this season. But if reports are accurate, and Brock is on schedule to take reps in TC, as well as possibly start week 1, I think the Trey boat has sailed. Not due to his performances per se, but because the 49ers will not put Brock on the back burner in order to see what they have in Trey. 2021 or 2022, sure. 2023 and beyond. Nah. That train has left the station.

Unfortunate, because I like Trey. But team aspirations > any one individual.

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I don't see a realistic scenario where Lance or Darnold takes the starting job and another team offers that level of compensation for Purdy. Barring absolute freak circumstances, he'd have to be worth that amount now (to other teams of course. He's invaluable to us currently). I wouldn't think he is.

Whoever isn't playing isn't increasing their trade value. Brock's value isn't going to improve, and will likely decrease, if Lance or Darnold take the job.

Like you said, we'd at least be extremely fortified at the position if a worthwhile trade didn't materialize. And maybe we wouldn't have that level of an asking price if one of Lance or Darnold (but mostly Lance) were to reposition themselves as QB1 going forward. Even a couple 2nds would be enticing.

Pretty much this. Purdy's value was highest right before the start of the NFCCG. Darnold's value could improve, but not significantly so. He has 50 games worth of bad to average play already out there. Lance's value isn't going up regardless, because by the time he puts enough good on tape, he will need a new contract. That's a lot of risk.

In the end, the 49ers likely part ways with two of the three (keeping, most likely, Brock) over the next two years, while getting minimal trade value in return (2nd or more for anyone other than Brock seems unlikely).

Darnold is a nice story, but the best case scenario is Trey takes the bull by the horns and balls out this season. But if reports are accurate, and Brock is on schedule to take reps in TC, as well as possibly start week 1, I think the Trey boat has sailed. Not due to his performances per se, but because the 49ers will not put Brock on the back burner in order to see what they have in Trey. 2021 or 2022, sure. 2023 and beyond. Nah. That train has left the station.

Unfortunate, because I like Trey. But team aspirations > any one individual.

I agree with most of what you said outside of treys value not capable of increasing. If he gets great reports and even some playing time, especially before the trade deadline, i can see some teams wanting to take a flyer (I still believe falcons love him). They would get him for two more seasons and at most $25-$30M, which is relatively cheap these days for a decent qb.

he also is relatively cheap next year. His mechanics already seem much improved, and the finger thing may ease concerns about last year like it did for me.

I just don't know how much value they put on Trey. It's difficult to trade him because we will want a lot, minimal salary cap implications. So we would essentially be taking the risk of not having him as a backup for some draft picks. I think that's the biggest reason - someone would need to make it worth it to us for us to take that risk of everyone getting injured again and the picks be good enough

Originally posted by tankle104:
I think the jury is still out on Mac, see how he rebounds with an actual offensive minded offensive coordinator. I wouldn't consider incompetent coaching as "adversity". I catagories it more along the lines of sabotage. He does have a lot to prove though.

it all depends on what you consider "first round talent". There's so much focus on athletic ability these days, and much less on accuracy/touch etc. that I think everyone's opinion slightly differ.

also, depends on your team. I thought Lawrence and Mac were the best picks for the 49ers, key being 49ers, because of our team and offense. You HAVE to be accurate in this system. I thought Wilson was the worst of the bunch, so mentally immature.

i didn't really think Lance was a realistic option because of his accuracy concerns at the time and his inexperience, specifically at a small school/FCS. I thought that trading everything we did for that much unknown was too risky. I thought Lance would need a ton of ingame experience and that he didn't have special mobility like fields does.
I'm still hoping I'm wrong and he balls out.

i thought fields had special mobility, really nice arm, super competitive etc. he had accuracy concerns too but I thought his were much less. Overall, I just thought he was exactly what Kyle was saying he wanted, which I still believe that. I'd love to hear why he didn't really consider him. See what I saw differently.

It's impossible to know, but might it have been the epilepsy?
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35131701/inside-chicago-bears-qb-justin-fields-journey-epilepsy

Originally posted by tankle104:
I agree with most of what you said outside of treys value not capable of increasing. If he gets great reports and even some playing time, especially before the trade deadline, i can see some teams wanting to take a flyer (I still believe falcons love him). They would get him for two more seasons and at most $25-$30M, which is relatively cheap these days for a decent qb.

he also is relatively cheap next year. His mechanics already seem much improved, and the finger thing may ease concerns about last year like it did for me.

I just don't know how much value they put on Trey. It's difficult to trade him because we will want a lot, minimal salary cap implications. So we would essentially be taking the risk of not having him as a backup for some draft picks. I think that's the biggest reason - someone would need to make it worth it to us for us to take that risk of everyone getting injured again and the picks be good enough

A few good games isn't moving the needle. For the same reason not everyone is sold on Purdy. A small sample size is a small sample size.

Unfortunately, what will effect Trey's value the most has nothing to do with his play. And ironically enough, it's the same factor that stood to influence JG's value the most over the past two off seasons--an injury to another teams starting QB.

Outside of that specific occurrence, Trey's value to the 49ers will significantly outweigh anything another team is willing to risk in a trade.

Originally posted by Polkadots:
Pretty much this. Purdy's value was highest right before the start of the NFCCG. Darnold's value could improve, but not significantly so. He has 50 games worth of bad to average play already out there. Lance's value isn't going up regardless, because by the time he puts enough good on tape, he will need a new contract. That's a lot of risk.

In the end, the 49ers likely part ways with two of the three (keeping, most likely, Brock) over the next two years, while getting minimal trade value in return (2nd or more for anyone other than Brock seems unlikely).

Darnold is a nice story, but the best case scenario is Trey takes the bull by the horns and balls out this season. But if reports are accurate, and Brock is on schedule to take reps in TC, as well as possibly start week 1, I think the Trey boat has sailed. Not due to his performances per se, but because the 49ers will not put Brock on the back burner in order to see what they have in Trey. 2021 or 2022, sure. 2023 and beyond. Nah. That train has left the station.

Unfortunate, because I like Trey. But team aspirations > any one individual.

What if Brock is back week 1 but he struggles? That is not out of the realm of possibilities. His sample size while bigger than Trey's is still not that big. I don't think he has earned the right to keep the starting job no matter what. If he struggles the 1st month of the season I don't think he gets to live off of the 8 games he had the previous season. Especially considering the team barely has anything invested in him. He was the last pick of the draft. And as quickly as fans fell inlove with him they can turn on him just as quickly.

Originally posted by JTB1974:

Originally posted by Polkadots:

Pretty much this. Purdy's value was highest right before the start of the NFCCG. Darnold's value could improve, but not significantly so. He has 50 games worth of bad to average play already out there. Lance's value isn't going up regardless, because by the time he puts enough good on tape, he will need a new contract. That's a lot of risk.

In the end, the 49ers likely part ways with two of the three (keeping, most likely, Brock) over the next two years, while getting minimal trade value in return (2nd or more for anyone other than Brock seems unlikely).

Darnold is a nice story, but the best case scenario is Trey takes the bull by the horns and balls out this season. But if reports are accurate, and Brock is on schedule to take reps in TC, as well as possibly start week 1, I think the Trey boat has sailed. Not due to his performances per se, but because the 49ers will not put Brock on the back burner in order to see what they have in Trey. 2021 or 2022, sure. 2023 and beyond. Nah. That train has left the station.

Unfortunate, because I like Trey. But team aspirations > any one individual.

What if Brock is back week 1 but he struggles? That is not out of the realm of possibilities. His sample size while bigger than Trey's is still not that big. I don't think he has earned the right to keep the starting job no matter what. If he struggles the 1st month of the season I don't think he gets to live off of the 8 games he had the previous season. Especially considering the team barely has anything invested in him. He was the last pick of the draft. And as quickly as fans fell inlove with him they can turn on him just as quickly.

It comes down to where Kyle thinks the 2nd stringer is at (whether it's Sam or Trey) and how badly Brock is struggling.

If Kyle thinks the 2nd stringer could do better, he'll make the switch. If not, Brock will play through the struggles

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Perhaps I wasn't clear. The situation in which Purdy could be traded is ONLY one in which either Darnold or Lance show they are every bit as good and the team is winning, AND another team offers a significant package. It would be very hard to resist a 1st round pick or two if Darnold or Lance are playing at as high a level (although would a team pay that much knowing the 49ers have too many great QBs?)

I did not know that. Cool to know.

The scenario is one in which Lance or Darnold ACTUALLY ARE as good as Purdy. When that happens, and you're offered say, a first and a second, you've got to make a tough decision. Only one guy is getting on the field at a time.

Define physical talent. If you mean "Can throw harder, can throw farther, and is bigger" then I'd say he has more physical talent.


That has indeed been his weakness thus far.

I really don't think that's true. I think if either is playing as good as Purdy and the team is winning, AND a team is offering a nice package of picks (first round plus), then I think a tough decision will have to be made. Only one guy gets on the field.

On the other hand, a cost controlled guy like Purdy who is that good, even if he's the backup, is very valuable. So it'd have to be a big package (heh). But if someone comes calling offering two firsts, I think they'd do it.

I don't see a realistic scenario where Lance or Darnold takes the starting job and another team offers that level of compensation for Purdy. Barring absolute freak circumstances, he'd have to be worth that amount now (to other teams of course. He's invaluable to us currently). I wouldn't think he is.

Whoever isn't playing isn't increasing their trade value. Brock's value isn't going to improve, and will likely decrease, if Lance or Darnold take the job.

Like you said, we'd at least be extremely fortified at the position if a worthwhile trade didn't materialize. And maybe we wouldn't have that level of an asking price if one of Lance or Darnold (but mostly Lance) were to reposition themselves as QB1 going forward. Even a couple 2nds would be enticing.

True. If Sam or Trey play excellent, Purdy's trade value will probably go down some. The wiser move would be just to keep all of them, since they're cost controlled. Until one of them gets a big contract.