Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by tommyncal:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I'm not sure I've ever commented on his ceiling outside of saying he wasn't as talented physically as guys like Mahomes, Allen, or Herbert.

I don't subscribe to the ceiling argument when it comes to QBs, especially based on physical traits. That was the point of my very short post.

Nfl teams believe in ceilings for QBs with gifted physical traits

NFL teams also drafted JaMarcus Russell and Jeff George, so they aren't infallible. Just pointing out that a strong arm attached to a weak head isn't an asset. Joe Montana and Brady fell in the draft because of their perceived lack of "arm talent" and athleticism. Arm talent should be a consideration, but nowhere near as high as some seem to think. As long as it is at least average, combined with a good mind for football, you can win with it. It is what makes the rare guys who have it combined with all the more important tools the "Unicorns" of professional football Like Marino, Manning, Rodgers, Luck, etc...

I really want the best QB to win the job, if Lance wins it means he unlocked some of the potential we saw when we drafted him. It's a win win

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
anyone else hoping Brock gets healthy then it's an open QB comp for the ages with all three

Let's hope so. No reason not to make it a competition if all three are healthy enough to practice in TC.

That's unlikely. If Brock proves healthy, he'll need the starter snaps in TC. It's miniscule for the rest. That's just the reality of it.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
anyone else hoping Brock gets healthy then it's an open QB comp for the ages with all three

Let's hope so. No reason not to make it a competition if all three are healthy enough to practice in TC.

That's unlikely. If Brock proves healthy, he'll need the starter snaps in TC. It's miniscule for the rest. That's just the reality of it.

True, if Brock is healthy they will do everything they can to prepare him for the QB1 role. However, in that time period where Brock isn't QB1 because of health, that leaves an opening for Trey and for Sam to show what they have. Depending on what they show, the 49ers can adjust the rep percentages to enhance who is more promising once Brock is healthy. *IF* big if, lets say Trey shows Kyle the ability to be QB1, I can see Kyle splitting the reps right down the middle or giving a bigger percentage of reps to Trey. Huge *IF* though.

Trey hasn't had a great opportunity. But with limited opportunity he hasn't showed anything deserving of the investment me made. Purdy is our starter when healthy. Lance doing well in TC and early in the season is our best hope for his development. I can't fathom him doing enough to keep the starting job

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
anyone else hoping Brock gets healthy then it's an open QB comp for the ages with all three

Let's hope so. No reason not to make it a competition if all three are healthy enough to practice in TC.

That's unlikely. If Brock proves healthy, he'll need the starter snaps in TC. It's miniscule for the rest. That's just the reality of it.

There's no harm in competition. I'm not sure why anyone would not want these guys to compete. That doesn't mean immediately splitting up the snaps with the first team three ways.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
NFL teams also drafted JaMarcus Russell and Jeff George, so they aren't infallible. Just pointing out that a strong arm attached to a weak head isn't an asset. Joe Montana and Brady fell in the draft because of their perceived lack of "arm talent" and athleticism. Arm talent should be a consideration, but nowhere near as high as some seem to think. As long as it is at least average, combined with a good mind for football, you can win with it. It is what makes the rare guys who have it combined with all the more important tools the "Unicorns" of professional football Like Marino, Manning, Rodgers, Luck, etc...

Using outliers like Montana and Brady shouldn't be the norm…IMO that's a weak rebuttal when talking about talent and ceilings. There's a reason why those guys get drafted higher. It's because of the skill set/traits and what the actual ceiling could be.

nothing is set in stone either. Like you said you have your Russells' and Gabberts. Failure can happen based on the intangibles, injuries and where they go just as much as what they actually have for their talent level.

for every Brady and Montana there's 1000s of the Peterman's and Matt Barkley's of the world. If you don't have that high end top shelf QB, then you should always be looking for one. No more settling. That's how we passes on guys like Mahomes/Watson/Allen/Brady etc. they settled on the idea of having Kirk or Jimmy. I'm not saying that what Brock will be, time will tell there.

Originally posted by davidboutte:
Trey hasn't had a great opportunity. But with limited opportunity he hasn't showed anything deserving of the investment me made. Purdy is our starter when healthy. Lance doing well in TC and early in the season is our best hope for his development. I can't fathom him doing enough to keep the starting job

Who's shown they were deserving of the investment made with the amount of injuries and limited snaps he's gotten? No one. Kid hasn't played back to back full games…let alone a full season of football to judge anything.

what if he played the same vs Chicago but the team around him didn't f**k up and they ended up winning…does that change the narrative?

IMO Brock if healthy is the leader in the clubhouse. He's earned that. If he's able to legit practice in camp and stinks, then he shouldn't just be handed the job (if either guy is playing well). Same goes for in-season, if Brock isn't maintaining the standard he set last yr, why should he keep the starting job? Because of 170 passing attempts? No way.

There's no long-term investment for any of these guys. I mean if anyone was it's Lance and our FO has shown they don't care about that. They sure as s**t aren't into developing a QB. So if Brock or anyone of these guys starts to stumble…it's gonna be next man up. That's how I see it.

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
There's no harm in competition. I'm not sure why anyone would not want these guys to compete. That doesn't mean immediately splitting up the snaps with the first team three ways.

IMO if Sam or Lance are playing well prior to Brock coming back. I don't see how there's not some form of competition. If Brock is so elite like people say in here..and Lance sucks so bad, then BCB shouldn't have an issue winning it out early and being the guy going into WK1

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Memphis9er:
NFL teams also drafted JaMarcus Russell and Jeff George, so they aren't infallible. Just pointing out that a strong arm attached to a weak head isn't an asset. Joe Montana and Brady fell in the draft because of their perceived lack of "arm talent" and athleticism. Arm talent should be a consideration, but nowhere near as high as some seem to think. As long as it is at least average, combined with a good mind for football, you can win with it. It is what makes the rare guys who have it combined with all the more important tools the "Unicorns" of professional football Like Marino, Manning, Rodgers, Luck, etc...

Using outliers like Montana and Brady shouldn't be the norm…IMO that's a weak rebuttal when talking about talent and ceilings. There's a reason why those guys get drafted higher. It's because of the skill set/traits and what the actual ceiling could be.

nothing is set in stone either. Like you said you have your Russells' and Gabberts. Failure can happen based on the intangibles, injuries and where they go just as much as what they actually have for their talent level.

for every Brady and Montana there's 1000s of the Peterman's and Matt Barkley's of the world. If you don't have that high end top shelf QB, then you should always be looking for one. No more settling. That's how we passes on guys like Mahomes/Watson/Allen/Brady etc. they settled on the idea of having Kirk or Jimmy. I'm not saying that what Brock will be, time will tell there.

Neither Peterman or Matt Barkley had the good football mind or football instincts that were Montana and Brady's biggest assets.I think maybe you missed my point. I used those examples to show that "arm talent" without the good football instincts is all but useless, whereas you can be as good as it gets with average "arm talent" and the above average instincts and smarts. As far as passing on "player x" the draft is a crap shoot, no one knew how good Mahomes was going to be, Watson, Allen, or Brady either. Some of it is just plain dumb luck. It's not a weak rebuttal because no one knows what their ceiling is going to be prior to them actually playing in the NFL, they get drafted on perceived ceiling, which it is entirely possible to whiff on. It's straight up speculation. Just because a guy can throw the ball 70 yards doesn't mean he will be able to throw it to a spot, on time, with touch. Which bring up another point about determining "arm talent", it shouldn't be judged on strength, but the ability to be consistently accurate and have both touch and be catchable. Everyone is chasing the "Unicorns", but those guys are few and far between. What a player is perceived to be in college can sometimes fool even the seasoned scouts. We see this happen time and time again.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 49ersRing:
There's no harm in competition. I'm not sure why anyone would not want these guys to compete. That doesn't mean immediately splitting up the snaps with the first team three ways.

IMO if Sam or Lance are playing well prior to Brock coming back. I don't see how there's not some form of competition. If Brock is so elite like people say in here..and Lance sucks so bad, then BCB shouldn't have an issue winning it out early and being the guy going into WK1

I think that unless Trey is just stinking it up, there will be a competition. Brock is clearly the frontrunner, Kyle talks like he's the starter, if healthy, but it isn't like they are going to kick Trey to the curb just because he got beat out by someone nobody saw coming. Trey has value to this team that he doesn't have to anyone else just for the capital invested. Even if he is the backup I would hope he gets time playing late in the games that we have in hand, just to get him the in game snaps he needs to get to improve. I don't think that Sam Darnold really has a chance to be the primary backup unless Trey is really bad, and I just don't see that happening. I'm curious to see if they pick up Trey's fifth year option, I think that will tell us what they truly think of the kid. I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of progress he is making with his passing. I honestly don't think he is an NFL caliber runner as a qb, and it would be making a huge mistake trying to force him to be one.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Using outliers like Montana and Brady shouldn't be the norm…IMO that's a weak rebuttal when talking about talent and ceilings. There's a reason why those guys get drafted higher. It's because of the skill set/traits and what the actual ceiling could be.

nothing is set in stone either. Like you said you have your Russells' and Gabberts. Failure can happen based on the intangibles, injuries and where they go just as much as what they actually have for their talent level.

for every Brady and Montana there's 1000s of the Peterman's and Matt Barkley's of the world. If you don't have that high end top shelf QB, then you should always be looking for one. No more settling. That's how we passes on guys like Mahomes/Watson/Allen/Brady etc. they settled on the idea of having Kirk or Jimmy. I'm not saying that what Brock will be, time will tell there.

NY!! Lmao you do this all the time! "Josh allen improved his accuracy. Look at Steve young!"

im just giving you a hard time. hahaha but you do that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by davidboutte:
Trey hasn't had a great opportunity. But with limited opportunity he hasn't showed anything deserving of the investment me made. Purdy is our starter when healthy. Lance doing well in TC and early in the season is our best hope for his development. I can't fathom him doing enough to keep the starting job

Who's shown they were deserving of the investment made with the amount of injuries and limited snaps he's gotten? No one. Kid hasn't played back to back full games…let alone a full season of football to judge anything.

what if he played the same vs Chicago but the team around him didn't f**k up and they ended up winning…does that change the narrative?

IMO Brock if healthy is the leader in the clubhouse. He's earned that. If he's able to legit practice in camp and stinks, then he shouldn't just be handed the job (if either guy is playing well). Same goes for in-season, if Brock isn't maintaining the standard he set last yr, why should he keep the starting job? Because of 170 passing attempts? No way.

There's no long-term investment for any of these guys. I mean if anyone was it's Lance and our FO has shown they don't care about that. They sure as s**t aren't into developing a QB. So if Brock or anyone of these guys starts to stumble…it's gonna be next man up. That's how I see it.

The funny thing is "leader in the clubhouse" doesn't mean winning of the tournament...in this case QB1.

It means Brock finished his round and put up the top score and Lance is still on the course trying to catch him but has the opportunity to do so by inference of the statement leader in the clubhouse.

If Lance is as good as I think he can be he will win those first four games at Pitt, at LA, home against NY, and vs AZ. Should have no inclement weather or monsoons to deal with those four games so it will be legit performance critique for all those games.

I want to see it. Hope Brock ready and 100% by Week 5 so I can see Trey get a legit opportunity and chance to fail without injury derailing him. First four games are easy... play him til he loses. Would love to see him be 4-0 and play the Cowboys so we can compare Brock's performance to Trey's vs the same top defense.

Unfortunately if Brock is 100% by Week 1 Trey may not get the chance. We know what we have in Brock so I want to get a few more data points about Trey before we ship him off in a trade for peanuts.

Will be interesting how it all shakes out. Trey has his shot here to make up ground - he will or he won't. Maybe he'll ve mediocre all camp and it's an easy decision to go back to Brock. No one knows how this shakes out.

Originally posted by tankle104:
NY!! Lmao you do this all the time! "Josh allen improved his accuracy. Look at Steve young!"

im just giving you a hard time. hahaha but you do that.

I didn't want to be that guy.

Originally posted by Memphis9er:

Originally posted by tommyncal:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
I'm not sure I've ever commented on his ceiling outside of saying he wasn't as talented physically as guys like Mahomes, Allen, or Herbert.

I don't subscribe to the ceiling argument when it comes to QBs, especially based on physical traits. That was the point of my very short post.

Nfl teams believe in ceilings for QBs with gifted physical traits

NFL teams also drafted JaMarcus Russell and Jeff George, so they aren't infallible. Just pointing out that a strong arm attached to a weak head isn't an asset. Joe Montana and Brady fell in the draft because of their perceived lack of "arm talent" and athleticism. Arm talent should be a consideration, but nowhere near as high as some seem to think. As long as it is at least average, combined with a good mind for football, you can win with it. It is what makes the rare guys who have it combined with all the more important tools the "Unicorns" of professional football Like Marino, Manning, Rodgers, Luck, etc...

The point wasn't so much if it's infallible, it's why teams move up for 'high ceiling' QBs with gifted physical traits and arm talent. so, arm talent is ranked high in evaluations. Colts just did it with A Richardson. I'm not saying he will be a franchise QB because of his physical traits. But teams value those traits. Maybe, if they could figure out instincts, processing etc then maybe QBs like Purdy won't last to the last round.