Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by krizay:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Trey is great at play-action and throwing down the field off of that, which is by far the most central element to Shanahan's passing game. You're confusing Shanahan's MODIFICATION of his offense to accommodate Jimmy's weaknesses with his actual scheme.

I don't think there was that much of a modification on Kyle's part ad far that central element. Jimmy just didn't throw it deep.

Now if you want to talk about modifications....

Nah, there was more boot action stuff with Trey.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
It's possible to be inaccurate and still safe with the ball. Kap in 2016 shows this.

Inaccurate passes are not safe by definition, lol. I can only assume you're basing this on the low interception rate and perhaps completion percentage. A QB can throw an inaccurate pass that hits a defender in the hands and is dropped. That's still not being safe with the football, regardless of the statistical result. I definitely agree It is possible* for a QB to not be safe with the football and still have positive turnover numbers.

That aside, when a QB is inaccurate with the football and those inaccurate throws do* result in turnovers, saying that QB is safe with the football is pretty silly.

You can condition yourself to always miss where no one is going to catch it. Or, more precisely, you can be aware that you're inaccurate, and as a result only attempt passes with a lower probability of being intercepted (e.g., constantly throwing outside and deep, especially corner routes, which by the way Kaepernick excelled in relative to his other passes).

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
It's possible to be inaccurate and still safe with the ball. Kap in 2016 shows this.

Inaccurate passes are not safe by definition, lol. I can only assume you're basing this on the low interception rate and perhaps completion percentage. A QB can throw an inaccurate pass that hits a defender in the hands and is dropped. That's still not being safe with the football, regardless of the statistical result. I definitely agree It is possible* for a QB to not be safe with the football and still have positive turnover numbers.

That aside, when a QB is inaccurate with the football and those inaccurate throws do* result in turnovers, saying that QB is safe with the football is pretty silly.

In 2016, Kap had a 3.6% TWP rate. That is actually not bad. He also had an adjusted completion rate of 71.2% and a drop rate of 10.1%. According to PFF's analysis, it wasn't Kap's accuracy that was the issue. It was actually the play of his receivers. He still ended the season with 18 total TD's and only 4 INT's in 11 games played.

TWP isn't necessarily the same as inaccuracy. And while adjusted completion rate is better than completion rate, it's still not identical with accuracy. Unfortunately PFF only has "OnTgt%" back to 2018. But from what I remember by the eye test, in 2016 Kap was cautious to a fault, over throwing frequently, throwing outside more than usual, missing toward the sideline when he did, and taking way too many sacks.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
It's possible to be inaccurate and still safe with the ball. Kap in 2016 shows this.

Inaccurate passes are not safe by definition, lol. I can only assume you're basing this on the low interception rate and perhaps completion percentage. A QB can throw an inaccurate pass that hits a defender in the hands and is dropped. That's still not being safe with the football, regardless of the statistical result. I definitely agree It is possible* for a QB to not be safe with the football and still have positive turnover numbers.

That aside, when a QB is inaccurate with the football and those inaccurate throws do* result in turnovers, saying that QB is safe with the football is pretty silly.

In 2016, Kap had a 3.6% TWP rate. That is actually not bad. He also had an adjusted completion rate of 71.2% and a drop rate of 10.1%. According to PFF's analysis, it wasn't Kap's accuracy that was the issue. It was actually the play of his receivers. He still ended the season with 18 total TD's and only 4 INT's in 11 games played.

TWP isn't necessarily the same as inaccuracy. And while adjusted completion rate is better than completion rate, it's still not identical with accuracy. Unfortunately PFF only has "OnTgt%" back to 2018. But from what I remember by the eye test, in 2016 Kap was cautious to a fault, over throwing frequently, throwing outside more than usual, missing toward the sideline when he did, and taking way too many sacks.

Even with that his receivers were awful. How long did they last in the league after 2016?

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Once again, Trey Lance is being handed the starting job.

He's just getting the starting job until Brock comes back—UNLESS he then proves it with that opportunity. Otherwise Brock is either going to get it back or get a chance to.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
It's possible to be inaccurate and still safe with the ball. Kap in 2016 shows this.

Inaccurate passes are not safe by definition, lol. I can only assume you're basing this on the low interception rate and perhaps completion percentage. A QB can throw an inaccurate pass that hits a defender in the hands and is dropped. That's still not being safe with the football, regardless of the statistical result. I definitely agree It is possible* for a QB to not be safe with the football and still have positive turnover numbers.

That aside, when a QB is inaccurate with the football and those inaccurate throws do* result in turnovers, saying that QB is safe with the football is pretty silly.

In 2016, Kap had a 3.6% TWP rate. That is actually not bad. He also had an adjusted completion rate of 71.2% and a drop rate of 10.1%. According to PFF's analysis, it wasn't Kap's accuracy that was the issue. It was actually the play of his receivers. He still ended the season with 18 total TD's and only 4 INT's in 11 games played.

TWP isn't necessarily the same as inaccuracy. And while adjusted completion rate is better than completion rate, it's still not identical with accuracy. Unfortunately PFF only has "OnTgt%" back to 2018. But from what I remember by the eye test, in 2016 Kap was cautious to a fault, over throwing frequently, throwing outside more than usual, missing toward the sideline when he did, and taking way too many sacks.

Even with that his receivers were awful. How long did they last in the league after 2016?

This is very true. Kap was not given a fair shake in 2016, and that may have contributed to his extra cautiousness.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
He looks like he runs a 4.86 in game speed. Juice could beat him in a 40. He runs like a fat fullback. He could be our backup FB. Nothing dynamic about his game speed. Just watch the games. He gets popped going to the corner. He rarely makes the turn before getting caught. Fields and Lamar Jackson speed jumps out at you in games. Not so with Trey. You don't see it at all.

I think he has good speed just not a quick first step. This is like a Daniel Jones type. I would prize the quick first step over the elite MPH. Cuz you need a whole lot of empty field to crank up to 20+ mph and those situations aren't really common from play to play.

As we see from the quick QBs, Kyler or prime SEA Wilson, that quick first step to elude pass rush and extend plays is hard to deal with.

Fields has both high end speed and the quick first step, he just turned in a historically good season from a QB run perspective. Would love to know the internal scout reports from SF on how they viewed Fields, Lance, Jones in terms of that decision. Clearly 11 v 11 with TL as a runner was part of their calculation, I have yet to see a designed TL run concept actually work for us. He got beat to the spot all day vs ARZ, and season ender vs SEA

Yeah his first step or short area burst is not that good. Even slow. His 10 yard box area quickness is not great. Fields and Lamar are much better. I think Purdy is just as fast or faster in the 10 yard box short area quickness. Lance my be a wind up speed type on long runs. But you don't get many of those if you can't get past the short area where there are lots of defenders. Yes his runs don't work that well so far. That's what I have seen too.

Trey Lance is quicker than a FB. We've posted video evidence over and over again disproving this. His problem with his running is his vision and hesitation.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
Trey Lance 40 time on Google

4.92

That's about what it looks like too.

That's either from high school or made up. Already posted in this thread in 2021 he was running about 4.51. Which looks about right.


Mac Jones' Pro Day 40 time was 4.72 and 4.68. HOW DO PEOPLE FALL FOR THIS STUFF THAT IS OBVIOUSLY FALSE?

Originally posted by eric_anthony:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
I'm sorry, but these are the types of posts that make my blood pressure boil

BS statistics to fit a narrative. No reason to believe trey won't take a leap? Just look at the picture of his throwing motion on the front page of the zone. Dude is walking like an Egyptian.

There is nothing wrong with his throwing motion goofy

Relax. Not that serious. lol

Originally posted by Hawaii49er:

Originally posted by dmax:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
After seeing how well the offense functioned withiut it, I would love to see Lance with the same game plan we saw used for Purdy.

Id love to see it too..stop running the kid on purpose. Let him be a pocket QB... KYLE

It was sad to watch that play out. He was going to go down eventually.

If Trey plays well enough to remain the starter when Brock first comes back, we should absolutely keep running the ball with him. If he gets hurt, we get an upgrade at pocket passing at the cost of losing the run threat. If he doesn't, and Brock takes over, we should still use him to run the ball like Hill is used. That is what he is built for and it's why he was drafted. If you got a Brock Purdy (or in last year's case, a Jimmy Garoppolo) on the bench, there is absolutely no reason not to use a 6'4, 230 pound QB the way they used Trey.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
If Jimmy isn't signed by March 30th, it definitively proves that Jimmy has zero value within the NFL.

Completely blows my mind that some of our fans would want a QB that literally no one else wants. Yet here we are.

This is more unrealistic than us re-signing him.

What are you going to say when he does sign somewhere else?

Move on, if he does. But there's a lot of takes on the kind of offers Jimmy might see. And if he doesn't get a blockbuster contract, we should be talking to him.

It's common sense. 2+2=4 simple. Our best chance of having a successful season starts with jimmy resigning here. Cant break it down any simpler.

Getting those old vets for 5m is too big a turnover risk. We know jimmy can game manage with low turnovers and that's what we need if we don't have brock. How simple can this be.

Trey will be the guy while Brock recovers and will continue to be the guy if he plays well. Doesn't get anymore simple than that.

Yep. Not sure why people are acting like it's solving a coupled oscillation problem.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
If Jimmy isn't signed by March 30th, it definitively proves that Jimmy has zero value within the NFL.

Completely blows my mind that some of our fans would want a QB that literally no one else wants. Yet here we are.

This is more unrealistic than us re-signing him.

What are you going to say when he does sign somewhere else?

Move on, if he does. But there's a lot of takes on the kind of offers Jimmy might see. And if he doesn't get a blockbuster contract, we should be talking to him.

It's common sense. 2+2=4 simple. Our best chance of having a successful season starts with jimmy resigning here. Cant break it down any simpler.

Getting those old vets for 5m is too big a turnover risk. We know jimmy can game manage with low turnovers and that's what we need if we don't have brock. How simple can this be.

Trey will be the guy while Brock recovers and will continue to be the guy if he plays well. Doesn't get anymore simple than that.

Simple, but risky. Much more risky than stabilizing our performance with an experienced vet in our system who performed pretty well last season.

Everyone gets what they want with jimmy here. Brock can heal up until nov dec if that's how long it takes. Trey will start too when jimmy goes down after 7-8-9.games if the right side of our o line doesn't improve.

And we go 5-2, 6-2 or 6-3 by the time that happens. Win win win. Why is everyone deflecting on this? Don't hurt the franchise due to yet another hot take from kyle. Lets be reasonable here.

Well, if you think it is more complicated than that, you are just getting your hopes up. John and Kyle invested a lot in this kid and they are going to give him every opportunity they can to succeed. They were willing to roll with him as the anointed starter going into last season. He lost his job due only to injury. So why would things be any different this year?

Jimmy isn't coming back. I am pretty sure he could have played in the NFCCG but chose not to make himself available.

If the miss to Sanders was forgivable, this isn't, and I will NEVER root for that guy again if it's true.

Bottom line: as long as Brock recovers, there is NO WAY we are not having a good QB under center next year.

Either Trey improves and plays well enough to take the job from Brock (meaning he's actually good), or Brock comes back and resumes being a damn good starter for us. It's a win/win.

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Lets face it, Kyle and John don't always make the right decision when it comes to the 1st round. lol

They've done more bad than good when it comes to the 1st round.

Solomon Thomas
Reuben Foster
Mike McGlinchey - Good run blocker, meh pass blocker looks like a 4th round pick
Javon Kinlaw

2 and 4 in the 1st round.

You have a point but hilarious you kept Aiyuk off the list to make your point.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I like your posts but you lost me a bit on this one..

Kyle didn't think TL was starter material? Maybe year 1 I guess..

Are you questioning if Jed has pull? Jed owns the team. KS reports to Jed. Now Jed has been hands off, just letting the football guys run the thing, rightly so. But no one has more pull in the org. Ask Harbs for example.

I agree TL was a KS move 100%

I'm aware Jed has pull. I also know Jed wouldn't dare give Kyle and ultimatum for a move like that. Kyle could walk and find another job tomorrow.

That was the main point.