Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
I dunno man,

Brock is flat out beating the unblocked blitz with his arm. I don't see any hitch in his throwing motion or any delay in his set up. From a layman's perspective Brock looks effective. Jimmy has not really been Jimmy in years, minus his minor revival this year.

Trey clearly has not even run the same offense, I don't know how we could take anything useful away from that unless it is just the blanket assumption Trey can't run the same offense at this point.

That is my position btw, Trey ran that gimmick offense this season, because he could not....at this point...... meet the standards needed to run the "normal offense".

I am sure at some point Trey's natural talent will shine though to whatever extent he has it. If Shanny wanted him, I am sure he saw stuff he can work with.

The bolded above - 100% true. I actually don't like the way we call plays with Trey in at all. I hate the QB runs up the gut.

wirh that said, I think it's telling of kyles current confidence level in Trey though, and that's not a good thing. IM NOT SAYING HE HATES TREY OR DOESNT WANT HIM.

i think the 49ers thought they were getting a QB who was more mobile and could get around the edges on designed runs, but he isn't that kind of runner. He's really just big and fast in a straight line - not agile/elusive/quick (in comparison to actual mobile QBs).

we also ran A LOT with him and I feel like that's cause kyle's not sold on treys passing ability yet in the offense. so I think he was running those kind of plays to get Trey reps and try and get him more comfortable out there. Unfortunately, it's completely dumb, ineffective, and now he's injured. I wouldn't run Josh Allen nearly as much as Buffalo does either - he's going to get hurt and start breaking down sooner than later, making his career much shorter than it needs to be.

The biggest difference is that our run game doesn't have a lot of QB-read or options elements added to it. Other than that, the only play we're not running is the one Trey got hurt on - which Josh Allen has had multiple TD's on, including one one just a couple weeks ago.

As far as the pass, game, yeah it's still quite a bit of the same offense. Quite a number of pass plays we ran Thursday Trey ran vs ARI and HOU. Our pass game is a little paired down from what we've seen the past 2 seasons under Jimmy - which should be expected with how inexperience both Purdy and Lance are. But, it's still the same offense.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by SinceXVI:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Beating a blitz is more about anticipation and presnap awareness. I'm looking at his release/throwing motion just from yesterday and it's nothing special or even greatly different than Lance's, while making the same throw. this has nothing to do with hating on Brock and pointing out how much people s**t on Lance over something as stupid (and factually incorrect) as his slow release. Especially if you think Brock has a "quick" release.

outside of running a couple more read options/QB powers. What exactly didn't Lance run or what was he incapable of doing? We saw bootlegs, yankee concepts, in breaking routes, play action both under center and from the gun. People are trying to embellish/rewrite the past. Sure he wasn't amazing in a couple QRs of football. He wasn't consistent. It wasn't all s**t either.

Brock is doing is thing and I'm here to see how it plays out. I hope he becomes the next Drew Brees or whatever. There's a long way to determine that, 2 starts is just that. Two starts.

Can you even name a rookie QB having a more impressive first 3 games of their career (exclude KC garbage time, include the Dolphins game since he played all but first drive and the team was trailing when he got in the game)? Sure Aaron Rodgers and Jimmy Garoppolo had a great start in their career, but they were sitting on the bench for several seasons. Rookie QB? I can't think of any.

You made an argument how unready rookie QB are and that none of them are ready to play in the NFL right away. Well, we have Purdy, but you are not impressed by his performance. But you think Trey wasn't very bad. You think he was good here and there. Let me tell you this. The vast majority of 1st round bust QB can probably flash here and there.

This is a complete double standard.

Justin Herbert (Three 300 yards passing games), Cam Newton ( Two 400 yards passing games), Mac Jones, Andrew Luck, and Ben Roethlisberger, to name a few, had more impressive 3 game starts than Brock Purdy, especially given that they were week 1 starters.

Brock has played well, but it's prudent to temper expectations and to view his performance in the appropriate context of coaching, surrounding talent, competition (e.g. Miami's defense gives up 32 points on the road on avg.), and stepping in towards the end of the season when the team is clicking.

With that said, in my opinion (and it's just an opinion no matter how well supported or articulated), Purdy has less of an upside than Lance, but he's good enough to manage this offense to a SB under the right circumstances.

Justin Herbert:. 5TD, 3 int and 2 fumbles
Cam Newton:. 4TD, 4 INT
Mac Jones:. 2TD, 3INT plus 2 fumbles
Andrew Luck:. 5TD, 4 INT plus 1 fumble
Ben Rothlisberger:. 4TD, 3INT

I am not going to rewatch their games, but it unlikely any of them actually did better than Brock.

Mia defense is average, Seahawks is below average, Tamp Bay has a good defense.

Let's remembered, Tom Brady didn't really carried the team in his first season as a starter either. Drew Brees wasn't deemed in franchise QB after his 3rd full season.

Purdy has less upside than Trey. Base on the so call potential, he is only Drew Brees with better mobility and stronger arm. That is enough potential for me.

Like I said, context. The QBs mentioned were week 1 starters, and with the exception of Rothslisberger, had less talented teams than the current Niners.

I hope Brock wins #6 and they sort the long term QB1 issue out with a camp competition. Good problem to have.

has a player ever been drafted so high that's so raw? We pretty much drafted someone who barely ever played QB or passed.

his junior and senior year of high school combined he threw 11 TD passes. Played 17 games in college and barely threw.

i hope he works out but honestly, what the hell? Why would you bank so much on someone who has barely played football in any sort of competitive program that requires you to pass the ball.

most high school QBs have more freakin reps than this guy and he's in the nfl.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
I dunno man,

Brock is flat out beating the unblocked blitz with his arm. I don't see any hitch in his throwing motion or any delay in his set up. From a layman's perspective Brock looks effective. Jimmy has not really been Jimmy in years, minus his minor revival this year.

Trey clearly has not even run the same offense, I don't know how we could take anything useful away from that unless it is just the blanket assumption Trey can't run the same offense at this point.

That is my position btw, Trey ran that gimmick offense this season, because he could not....at this point...... meet the standards needed to run the "normal offense".

I am sure at some point Trey's natural talent will shine though to whatever extent he has it. If Shanny wanted him, I am sure he saw stuff he can work with.

The bolded above - 100% true. I actually don't like the way we call plays with Trey in at all. I hate the QB runs up the gut.

wirh that said, I think it's telling of kyles current confidence level in Trey though, and that's not a good thing. IM NOT SAYING HE HATES TREY OR DOESNT WANT HIM.

i think the 49ers thought they were getting a QB who was more mobile and could get around the edges on designed runs, but he isn't that kind of runner. He's really just big and fast in a straight line - not agile/elusive/quick (in comparison to actual mobile QBs).

we also ran A LOT with him and I feel like that's cause kyle's not sold on treys passing ability yet in the offense. so I think he was running those kind of plays to get Trey reps and try and get him more comfortable out there. Unfortunately, it's completely dumb, ineffective, and now he's injured. I wouldn't run Josh Allen nearly as much as Buffalo does either - he's going to get hurt and start breaking down sooner than later, making his career much shorter than it needs to be.

The biggest difference is that our run game doesn't have a lot of QB-read or options elements added to it. Other than that, the only play we're not running is the one Trey got hurt on - which Josh Allen has had multiple TD's on, including one one just a couple weeks ago.

As far as the pass, game, yeah it's still quite a bit of the same offense. Quite a number of pass plays we ran Thursday Trey ran vs ARI and HOU. Our pass game is a little paired down from what we've seen the past 2 seasons under Jimmy - which should be expected with how inexperience both Purdy and Lance are. But, it's still the same offense.

Jonny, in the couple games Trey has started, do you think our run game has looked effective, with the option elements in there?

The overall stats seem to reflect that--The 2021 Cardinals, Texans game, and the 2022 Bears game... We had about 167 yards rushing/per game.
But then again... the games Purdy has started, we've had similar rushing productivity (along with greater passing efficiency).
(Admittedly, small sample sizes for both Lance/Purdy though)

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
I dunno man,

Brock is flat out beating the unblocked blitz with his arm. I don't see any hitch in his throwing motion or any delay in his set up. From a layman's perspective Brock looks effective. Jimmy has not really been Jimmy in years, minus his minor revival this year.

Trey clearly has not even run the same offense, I don't know how we could take anything useful away from that unless it is just the blanket assumption Trey can't run the same offense at this point.

That is my position btw, Trey ran that gimmick offense this season, because he could not....at this point...... meet the standards needed to run the "normal offense".

I am sure at some point Trey's natural talent will shine though to whatever extent he has it. If Shanny wanted him, I am sure he saw stuff he can work with.

The bolded above - 100% true. I actually don't like the way we call plays with Trey in at all. I hate the QB runs up the gut.

wirh that said, I think it's telling of kyles current confidence level in Trey though, and that's not a good thing. IM NOT SAYING HE HATES TREY OR DOESNT WANT HIM.

i think the 49ers thought they were getting a QB who was more mobile and could get around the edges on designed runs, but he isn't that kind of runner. He's really just big and fast in a straight line - not agile/elusive/quick (in comparison to actual mobile QBs).

we also ran A LOT with him and I feel like that's cause kyle's not sold on treys passing ability yet in the offense. so I think he was running those kind of plays to get Trey reps and try and get him more comfortable out there. Unfortunately, it's completely dumb, ineffective, and now he's injured. I wouldn't run Josh Allen nearly as much as Buffalo does either - he's going to get hurt and start breaking down sooner than later, making his career much shorter than it needs to be.

The biggest difference is that our run game doesn't have a lot of QB-read or options elements added to it. Other than that, the only play we're not running is the one Trey got hurt on - which Josh Allen has had multiple TD's on, including one one just a couple weeks ago.

As far as the pass, game, yeah it's still quite a bit of the same offense. Quite a number of pass plays we ran Thursday Trey ran vs ARI and HOU. Our pass game is a little paired down from what we've seen the past 2 seasons under Jimmy - which should be expected with how inexperience both Purdy and Lance are. But, it's still the same offense.

Why is it that Purdy looks like he has made a seamless transition as opposed to Trey looking clunky and awkward when playing in it?

Originally posted by tankle104:
has a player ever been drafted so high that's so raw? We pretty much drafted someone who barely ever played QB or passed.

his junior and senior year of high school combined he threw 11 TD passes. Played 17 games in college and barely threw.

i hope he works out but honestly, what the hell? Why would you bank so much on someone who has barely played football in any sort of competitive program that requires you to pass the ball.

most high school QBs have more freakin reps than this guy and he's in the nfl.

Josh Allen and Carson Wentz are the similar examples, and even still... they threw 600+ passes, while Trey has only thrown 300.

It's a fair concern, but it really boils down to the coaching staff's ability/inability to develop a QB, and to call plays around him. The Bills did it. And it seemed like Carson Wentz was on his way with the Eagles... but then he got injured.

Originally posted by tankle104:
Just for the hell of it and change the pace of convo - let's say Trey starts next year and he gets injured again and either missed a majority of the games or out for the season.

At that point - three years in and we would know absolutely nothing more than we know now. Lol in my opinion, the experiment should be over at that point if Purdy is still playing well.

it's unbelievably annoying that we have had this guy for two years and know essentially nothing more about him than what we did on draft day. I'm not blaming Trey for all of this, it's just annoying and such a waste. I really think that the trade for Trey will go down as a blunder and waste, they'll save face if Purdy pans out though.not saying he will be a bust, I just don't think he's ever going to end up being a consistent reliable starter for the 49ers but will find a spot on another team in a few years.

I wanted him to play YR1. Kid needed reps. It's wild it's the same people saying he needed to sit because he wasn't ready and we had a Super Roster. Now it's the same people complaining about him not being more consistent, refusing to allow him to play (to actually improve again because we have a SB roster), and also being annoyed we don't have a better idea of who he is currently

How about this what if…what if Brock plays at a Jimmy G pace down the stretch and fans think he should be the starter next yr/then the FO trades Lance to someone for like a 2nd rd pick…he then is allowed to play and develops into a Hurts like QB while we have a Jimmy G 2.0 (not saying that's who he is). Now who's looking silly because they couldn't be patient for a yr? Also as far as injuries go, Brock got one start under his belt before getting banged up…

Originally posted by Wubbie:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
I dunno man,

Brock is flat out beating the unblocked blitz with his arm. I don't see any hitch in his throwing motion or any delay in his set up. From a layman's perspective Brock looks effective. Jimmy has not really been Jimmy in years, minus his minor revival this year.

Trey clearly has not even run the same offense, I don't know how we could take anything useful away from that unless it is just the blanket assumption Trey can't run the same offense at this point.

That is my position btw, Trey ran that gimmick offense this season, because he could not....at this point...... meet the standards needed to run the "normal offense".

I am sure at some point Trey's natural talent will shine though to whatever extent he has it. If Shanny wanted him, I am sure he saw stuff he can work with.

The bolded above - 100% true. I actually don't like the way we call plays with Trey in at all. I hate the QB runs up the gut.

wirh that said, I think it's telling of kyles current confidence level in Trey though, and that's not a good thing. IM NOT SAYING HE HATES TREY OR DOESNT WANT HIM.

i think the 49ers thought they were getting a QB who was more mobile and could get around the edges on designed runs, but he isn't that kind of runner. He's really just big and fast in a straight line - not agile/elusive/quick (in comparison to actual mobile QBs).

we also ran A LOT with him and I feel like that's cause kyle's not sold on treys passing ability yet in the offense. so I think he was running those kind of plays to get Trey reps and try and get him more comfortable out there. Unfortunately, it's completely dumb, ineffective, and now he's injured. I wouldn't run Josh Allen nearly as much as Buffalo does either - he's going to get hurt and start breaking down sooner than later, making his career much shorter than it needs to be.

The biggest difference is that our run game doesn't have a lot of QB-read or options elements added to it. Other than that, the only play we're not running is the one Trey got hurt on - which Josh Allen has had multiple TD's on, including one one just a couple weeks ago.

As far as the pass, game, yeah it's still quite a bit of the same offense. Quite a number of pass plays we ran Thursday Trey ran vs ARI and HOU. Our pass game is a little paired down from what we've seen the past 2 seasons under Jimmy - which should be expected with how inexperience both Purdy and Lance are. But, it's still the same offense.

Jonny, in the couple games Trey has started, do you think our run game has looked effective, with the option elements in there?

The overall stats seem to reflect that--The 2021 Cardinals, Texans game, and the 2022 Bears game... We had about 167 yards rushing/per game.
But then again... the games Purdy has started, we've had similar rushing productivity (along with greater passing efficiency).
(Admittedly, small sample sizes for both Lance/Purdy though)

The hard part with Trey is that we really haven't had our RB's. The only game he had a RB1 was HOU and Mitchell ran for 119 on 21 carries for 5.67 YPA.
The Bears game Mitchell went out but had a couple big explosive runs.
Mitchell was hobbled and didn't play much against ARI, if I remember right.

Originally posted by Goatie:
Why is it that Purdy looks like he has made a seamless transition as opposed to Trey looking clunky and awkward when playing in it?

Not sure how many times we need to talk about reps….Brock was a 4yr starter at a school than ran pro concepts. 1,500 passing attempts. Lance while he ran a lot of the same concepts at NDSU had one season back in 2019 with like 300 career passing attempts…shocking that a QB with like 5x more passing attempts might have a better feel early with playing the position.

Originally posted by Goatie:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Dshearn:
I dunno man,

Brock is flat out beating the unblocked blitz with his arm. I don't see any hitch in his throwing motion or any delay in his set up. From a layman's perspective Brock looks effective. Jimmy has not really been Jimmy in years, minus his minor revival this year.

Trey clearly has not even run the same offense, I don't know how we could take anything useful away from that unless it is just the blanket assumption Trey can't run the same offense at this point.

That is my position btw, Trey ran that gimmick offense this season, because he could not....at this point...... meet the standards needed to run the "normal offense".

I am sure at some point Trey's natural talent will shine though to whatever extent he has it. If Shanny wanted him, I am sure he saw stuff he can work with.

The bolded above - 100% true. I actually don't like the way we call plays with Trey in at all. I hate the QB runs up the gut.

wirh that said, I think it's telling of kyles current confidence level in Trey though, and that's not a good thing. IM NOT SAYING HE HATES TREY OR DOESNT WANT HIM.

i think the 49ers thought they were getting a QB who was more mobile and could get around the edges on designed runs, but he isn't that kind of runner. He's really just big and fast in a straight line - not agile/elusive/quick (in comparison to actual mobile QBs).

we also ran A LOT with him and I feel like that's cause kyle's not sold on treys passing ability yet in the offense. so I think he was running those kind of plays to get Trey reps and try and get him more comfortable out there. Unfortunately, it's completely dumb, ineffective, and now he's injured. I wouldn't run Josh Allen nearly as much as Buffalo does either - he's going to get hurt and start breaking down sooner than later, making his career much shorter than it needs to be.

The biggest difference is that our run game doesn't have a lot of QB-read or options elements added to it. Other than that, the only play we're not running is the one Trey got hurt on - which Josh Allen has had multiple TD's on, including one one just a couple weeks ago.

As far as the pass, game, yeah it's still quite a bit of the same offense. Quite a number of pass plays we ran Thursday Trey ran vs ARI and HOU. Our pass game is a little paired down from what we've seen the past 2 seasons under Jimmy - which should be expected with how inexperience both Purdy and Lance are. But, it's still the same offense.

Why is it that Purdy looks like he has made a seamless transition as opposed to Trey looking clunky and awkward when playing in it?

Well, there's a lot less pistol formation so that changes some of the releases, motions and timing of some of the plays so from Jimmy --> Purdy is more seamless there. There's also the element of teams playing those guys a little more consistently than how they do having to account for Trey as a RB. It changes who's the overhang, how they play an overhang, how deep the safeties are playing. Those things change the preparation from the coaching staff as well and how they're going to look to attack teams and how they prepare their position groups.

Originally posted by Wubbie:
Josh Allen and Carson Wentz are the similar examples, and even still... they threw 600+ passes, while Trey has only thrown 300.

It's a fair concern, but it really boils down to the coaching staff's ability/inability to develop a QB, and to call plays around him. The Bills did it. And it seemed like Carson Wentz was on his way with the Eagles... but then he got injured.

I don't think it's fair to compare him to Josh Allen, I think Allen came into the league a much better player. Only comparisons are size and arm strength. Allen knows how to run the ball.

it just tells me that he's never had to work in a sophisticated passing system, read sophisticated defenses or anything like that. That's nuts. I knew he was raw but I never dug into how raw. Makes sense he has accuracy issues etc. he's literally learning how to play big boy football. Lol not just run run run over crap talent.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Goatie:
Why is it that Purdy looks like he has made a seamless transition as opposed to Trey looking clunky and awkward when playing in it?

Not sure how many times we need to talk about reps….Brock was a 4yr starter at a school than ran pro concepts. 1,500 passing attempts. Lance while he ran a lot of the same concepts at NDSU had one season back in 2019 with like 300 career passing attempts…shocking that a QB with like 5x more passing attempts might have a better feel early with playing the position.

Good answer.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I wanted him to play YR1. Kid needed reps. It's wild it's the same people saying he needed to sit because he wasn't ready and we had a Super Roster. Now it's the same people complaining about him not being more consistent, refusing to allow him to play (to actually improve again because we have a SB roster), and also being annoyed we don't have a better idea of who he is currently

How about this what if…what if Brock plays at a Jimmy G pace down the stretch and fans think he should be the starter next yr/then the FO trades Lance to someone for like a 2nd rd pick…he then is allowed to play and develops into a Hurts like QB while we have a Jimmy G 2.0 (not saying that's who he is). Now who's looking silly because they couldn't be patient for a yr? Also as far as injuries go, Brock got one start under his belt before getting banged up…

Lol he had no business starting last year. He needed the reps but we still have a TEAM. This isn't the San Francisco Trey Lance's. It's always about what's best for the team and balancing that in the now and for the future. They actually did it right, he just got hurt in the second game. So anyone complaining about him not starting year 1…idk what to tell you. Lol makes no sense.

and when my team trades multiple first round picks and drafts in the top 3, I'm sorry if I expect to see flashes in the games he plays. Not have to literally teach football because most high school QBs have more reps and passing attempts than he does in his whole career combined. Lll

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I wanted him to play YR1. Kid needed reps. It's wild it's the same people saying he needed to sit because he wasn't ready and we had a Super Roster. Now it's the same people complaining about him not being more consistent, refusing to allow him to play (to actually improve again because we have a SB roster), and also being annoyed we don't have a better idea of who he is currently

we already know Kyle was planning to switch to Lance last season but his injury changed those plans. Kyle named him the unquestioned starter this season but again he got injured. his lack of PT has a lot to do with him not being able to stay healthy. this was one of the main the reasons from moving on from Jimmy to Trey. availability is the best ability.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by Wubbie:
Josh Allen and Carson Wentz are the similar examples, and even still... they threw 600+ passes, while Trey has only thrown 300.

It's a fair concern, but it really boils down to the coaching staff's ability/inability to develop a QB, and to call plays around him. The Bills did it. And it seemed like Carson Wentz was on his way with the Eagles... but then he got injured.

I don't think it's fair to compare him to Josh Allen, I think Allen came into the league a much better player. Only comparisons are size and arm strength. Allen knows how to run the ball.

it just tells me that he's never had to work in a sophisticated passing system, read sophisticated defenses or anything like that. That's nuts. I knew he was raw but I never dug into how raw. Makes sense he has accuracy issues etc. he's literally learning how to play big boy football. Lol not just run run run over crap talent.

Actually, North Dakota State runs a pro-style offense, that features play action and a fullback. Not too dissimilar to our own offense.
To me, it's more the reps that he's lacking, as well as the jump from weaker competition to the NFL... and yes, he does need to refine his abilities as a passer.