Rep the Red & Gold: Shop 49ers Gear →

There are 354 users in the forums

Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Shop 49ers game tickets
May 12, 2022 at 12:01 PM
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
To be fair to Mac Jones, the temperature for that game was under 75 degrees fahrenheit and it's just not easy for him to throw in inclement weather like that.

I mean honestly what games did they come back from and he was the reason for the W? That defense was great most of the season and they were in the lead a ton. Jones get's props for being able to run the offense and not totally f**king it up, but outside of the Houston game (from what I remember) there wasn't a bunch of playing from behind and having to put the team on his back. I think their FG kicker was banging 50+ FGs in that Texas game just as well. LAC game they won off a pick 6.

Mac played how I thought he would play in NE. Is he gonna turn into a smaller weaker armed Brady or is he gonna be Andy Dalton? Who knows. Like I said where a player ends up can determine how their careers pan out.

whatever back to Lance
[ Edited by NYniner85 on May 12, 2022 at 12:20 PM ]
The above videos are auto-populated by an affiliate.
May 12, 2022 at 12:11 PM
Originally posted by YACBros85:
You misunderstood what I was conveying. I was saying that Mac Jones would have had a better season than he had if he had Herbert's weapons. I was not saying that he would have had a better rookie season than Herbert. Sorry. That was my fault. I should have worded it better.

I am also not saying Mac Jones is going to have a great career. I have no idea. The odds are against him. I am sure we can both agree on that. This debate started because I made a statement that Mac Jones had a solid season as a rookie QB. That is what I believe. Did he look like a HOFer? No. Nothing that I seen from him last season tells me he is going to fall by the wayside either.

Also, there are tweets of Jones making big boy throws. Someone posted them a few pages back. I am sure I could dig up a series of poor throws and decisions by Herbert in his rookie season also. He threw at least 1 int in 7 of those 9 losses.

Would he have a better season if he was in LA in 2020 then he had in NE this yr? See I don't honestly believe that. Herbert was pressured on almost 40% of all his drop backs. Would he have been better if he had Allen/Williams in NE? sure no doubt. So would every young QB. Fields/Lawrence/Wilson would have probably played better if they ended up in NE all the same.

I'm not saying Jones was awful last yr. I'm saying overall it wasn't anything special. Jones got worse as the season ended not better. If that was Lance people would have a fit in here and you know it. As far as Herbert I'll take 10 INTs on 600 passing attempts from a rookie with one of the worst OLs in football and one of the worst defenses to go with it.
May 12, 2022 at 1:12 PM
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not poo pooing, lol, Herbert's rookie year. He had one of the best rookie seasons for an NFL QB. I am simply saying that Mac Jones had a decent season for a rookie QB and it may have been even better if he had similar weapons as Herbert. Remember, I din't bring up Herbert first, you did.

Yes. I am using stats to make my arguments. Stats would be evidence and your "observations" would not be in a court of law.

I brought up Herbert because he along with a handful of other rookies weren't in your article. Yes you have poo pooed him and even stated Jones might have been better in that same situation in 2020 which I will completely disagree with.

Stats are not the end all be all if a player was good or not. Stats don't show plays like this




(there's a laundry list of plays from him)

Look I don't think Mac stinks, he's a game manager and can run your offense. Good processer with good mechanics. Again very similar to Andy Dalton.

but man this is just the buffalo game and down the stretch it wasn't good play overall from him....if that was Lance people would be having a field day.


Geez man, half that video was the final 8 minutes when they were already down by a lot. There's no way I blame mac for that loss. If Lance or Jimmy had that kind of defense I wouldn't blame them for that loss. If you'd expect a rookie to win that kind of game you have unrealistic expectations for him.

Plus who is that guy? A bills fan?
[ Edited by JoseCortez on May 12, 2022 at 1:15 PM ]
May 12, 2022 at 1:26 PM
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Geez man, half that video was the final 8 minutes when they were already down by a lot. There's no way I blame mac for that loss. If Lance or Jimmy had that kind of defense I wouldn't blame them for that loss. If you'd expect a rookie to win that kind of game you have unrealistic expectations for him.

Plus who is that guy? A bills fan?

Dude Mac was horrible vs the bills( should have had another 2 INTs). Those were a couple throws throughout the whole game. You want to be all about about Jones when he's given a lead 90% of the time with a good pocket, D is stopping everything and they're running the ball well...then you should be objective enough to see when all that isn't going for him, he struggled. He's a rookie which is fine, but at the very least look at it equal. It's no different then people saying fields/Wilson/TL had horrible seasons, they were forced to play in games like that all damn yr. They had junk all around them and had to make chicken salad out of chicken s**t. That usually ends in bad results for rookie QBs.

Who gives a s**t if he's a bill's fan, those plays happened...watch the damn game instead of making excuses. If Lance threw 7 INTs his last 5 games and was one of the reasons they went 1-4 and got piss pounded in the playoffs YOU'D be front in center here blaming him for it and don't say you wouldn't! I can see it now. "I don't care if the D couldn't stop Allen, our 1st rd pick QB shouldn't be playing that bad" "I blame Kyle and Lance for this loss" blah blah blah. It's all very predicable....at least call it both ways man.
[ Edited by NYniner85 on May 12, 2022 at 1:34 PM ]
May 12, 2022 at 2:26 PM
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Geez man, half that video was the final 8 minutes when they were already down by a lot. There's no way I blame mac for that loss. If Lance or Jimmy had that kind of defense I wouldn't blame them for that loss. If you'd expect a rookie to win that kind of game you have unrealistic expectations for him.

Plus who is that guy? A bills fan?

Dude Mac was horrible vs the bills( should have had another 2 INTs). Those were a couple throws throughout the whole game. You want to be all about about Jones when he's given a lead 90% of the time with a good pocket, D is stopping everything and they're running the ball well...then you should be objective enough to see when all that isn't going for him, he struggled. He's a rookie which is fine, but at the very least look at it equal. It's no different then people saying fields/Wilson/TL had horrible seasons, they were forced to play in games like that all damn yr. They had junk all around them and had to make chicken salad out of chicken s**t. That usually ends in bad results for rookie QBs.

Who gives a s**t if he's a bill's fan, those plays happened...watch the damn game instead of making excuses. If Lance threw 7 INTs his last 5 games and was one of the reasons they went 1-4 and got piss pounded in the playoffs YOU'D be front in center here blaming him for it and don't say you wouldn't! I can see it now. "I don't care if the D couldn't stop Allen, our 1st rd pick QB shouldn't be playing that bad" "I blame Kyle and Lance for this loss" blah blah blah. It's all very predicable....at least call it both ways man.

I'm not going to promise you that I wouldn't tear.down trey because I, like many on here, become irrational during the game. But i do have ability to come back to earth and look at it with a neutral observation. Mac by no means looked good in that game. But he was definitely not the reason they lost. That whole team looked like s**t, and the bills and their fans were clearly on something. It was like 20 years of pent-up frustration from brady was taken out in 1 game. Putting it all on Mac isn't fair, and expecting a rookie to play like a 10 year vet in that environment is also unfair. But yeah he should have played better.

I've promised myself that I would be patient with Lance this year. Whether i actually do that remains to be seen.
May 12, 2022 at 2:30 PM
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Dude, we didn't invest in him. You stated that he did nothing special. I point out that his performance was comparable to many of the top rookie QB seasons of NFL history. You lost the argument and you refuse to accept it. I like you NY. You are a great poster on this forum. However, your biggest flaw is admitting when you are wrong and just move on.

Good luck with that lmao

He's admitted he was wrong more than you people did about Super Bowl winning QB and "loser" who just "doesn't win" Matthew Stafford.

I am guessing you are responding to bay2bay exclusively because I never posted my opinion on that subject. For what its worth, I've always liked Stafford. He put up good numbers year after year inspite of him being on a bottom feeder team.

I was talking to him, but it doesn't even necessarily apply to him. Just the Jimmy Club guys who refused to admit there was another QB in the NFL better than Jimmy.

But I do think Jones can be one of the better, even possibly elite QBs in the league (in the way that Rivers, Brees, Brady and Manning were). As I said in my other post, he has a large set of passes, he's accurate, he moves well in the pocket, he's pretty good under pressure. It's simply a matter of whether or not he can improve all the things he's good at, and take it to the next level.

But he'll never have Lance's ceiling. Lance has the physical ability to be RoboQB, so long as he improves all his weaknesses and continues to master the NFL game.

I have never heard anyone ever make that claim, lol. That's as an absurd a statement as claiming Jimmy is the best QB.
May 12, 2022 at 2:32 PM
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
I'm not going to promise you that I wouldn't tear.down trey because I, like many on here, become irrational during the game. But i do have ability to come back to earth and look at it with a neutral observation. Mac by no means looked good in that game. But he was definitely not the reason they lost. That whole team looked like s**t, and the bills and their fans were clearly on something. It was like 20 years of pent-up frustration from brady was taken out in 1 game. Putting it all on Mac isn't fair, and expecting a rookie to play like a 10 year vet in that environment is also unfair. But yeah he should have played better.

I've promised myself that I would be patient with Lance this year. Whether i actually do that remains to be seen.

Too bad Vegas isn't making odds on this. It's as close to a sure bet as I have ever seen.
May 12, 2022 at 2:38 PM
Originally posted by NotAFinga42:
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
I'm not going to promise you that I wouldn't tear.down trey because I, like many on here, become irrational during the game. But i do have ability to come back to earth and look at it with a neutral observation. Mac by no means looked good in that game. But he was definitely not the reason they lost. That whole team looked like s**t, and the bills and their fans were clearly on something. It was like 20 years of pent-up frustration from brady was taken out in 1 game. Putting it all on Mac isn't fair, and expecting a rookie to play like a 10 year vet in that environment is also unfair. But yeah he should have played better.

I've promised myself that I would be patient with Lance this year. Whether i actually do that remains to be seen.

Too bad Vegas isn't making odds on this. It's as close to a sure bet as I have ever seen.

Its off the board.
May 12, 2022 at 2:51 PM
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am not poo pooing, lol, Herbert's rookie year. He had one of the best rookie seasons for an NFL QB. I am simply saying that Mac Jones had a decent season for a rookie QB and it may have been even better if he had similar weapons as Herbert. Remember, I din't bring up Herbert first, you did.

Yes. I am using stats to make my arguments. Stats would be evidence and your "observations" would not be in a court of law.

I brought up Herbert because he along with a handful of other rookies weren't in your article. Yes you have poo pooed him and even stated Jones might have been better in that same situation in 2020 which I will completely disagree with.

Stats are not the end all be all if a player was good or not. Stats don't show plays like this




(there's a laundry list of plays from him)

Look I don't think Mac stinks, he's a game manager and can run your offense. Good processer with good mechanics. Again very similar to Andy Dalton.

but man this is just the buffalo game and down the stretch it wasn't good play overall from him....if that was Lance people would be having a field day.


Geez man, half that video was the final 8 minutes when they were already down by a lot. There's no way I blame mac for that loss. If Lance or Jimmy had that kind of defense I wouldn't blame them for that loss. If you'd expect a rookie to win that kind of game you have unrealistic expectations for him.

Plus who is that guy? A bills fan?

If other QBs folded like that when their opponent had a 10 point lead, we'd have won 2 SuperBowls in the last 3 years.
May 12, 2022 at 2:59 PM
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Dude, we didn't invest in him. You stated that he did nothing special. I point out that his performance was comparable to many of the top rookie QB seasons of NFL history. You lost the argument and you refuse to accept it. I like you NY. You are a great poster on this forum. However, your biggest flaw is admitting when you are wrong and just move on.

Good luck with that lmao

He's admitted he was wrong more than you people did about Super Bowl winning QB and "loser" who just "doesn't win" Matthew Stafford.

I am guessing you are responding to bay2bay exclusively because I never posted my opinion on that subject. For what its worth, I've always liked Stafford. He put up good numbers year after year inspite of him being on a bottom feeder team.

I was talking to him, but it doesn't even necessarily apply to him. Just the Jimmy Club guys who refused to admit there was another QB in the NFL better than Jimmy.

But I do think Jones can be one of the better, even possibly elite QBs in the league (in the way that Rivers, Brees, Brady and Manning were). As I said in my other post, he has a large set of passes, he's accurate, he moves well in the pocket, he's pretty good under pressure. It's simply a matter of whether or not he can improve all the things he's good at, and take it to the next level.

But he'll never have Lance's ceiling. Lance has the physical ability to be RoboQB, so long as he improves all his weaknesses and continues to master the NFL game.

I have never heard anyone ever make that claim, lol. That's as an absurd a statement as claiming Jimmy is the best QB.
I've never heard anyone say Jimmy's the best QB in the NFL but I've heard several people say he's a top 10 QB.

My favorite statement was something like "Aaron Rodgers is the only other QB who can make that throw" in regards to a pass from Jimmy G.
May 12, 2022 at 3:08 PM
Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Originally posted by SinceXVI:
Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Originally posted by 49ersRing:
Originally posted by Bay2Bay9erAllday:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Check this article out.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/11/best-rookie-quarterback-seasons-nfl-history#gid=ci02554df250032580&pid=10-peyton-manning-colts-1998

Mac Jones

67.6% comp 3,801 yards 22 TD's 13 INT's 92.5 passer rating. Compare Mac's stats to the likes of Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, Andy Dalton, Cam Newton and Big Ben.

I'll just drop this here.


Not too shabby for a "noodle armed" rookie QB. Anyone arguing that Mac didn't have a very good rookie year shouldn't be taken serious lol

Pfft, those are nice highlights, but he's no Josh Allen:



Yeah, not a bad season for either a rook or a vet, but as someone else pointed out he's Andy Dalton 2.0.

Glad that him and Trey are in situations best suited for their respective talents. Jones will thrive next year with speedsters Tyquan Thornton and Pierre Strong Jr.

And if the offensive line permits, Trey will be leading one of Kyle Shanahan's most explosive offenses.

I don't think so. I think he's ceiling is almost as high as the athletically gifted QBs. He could be really good, if he improves what he's already good at. He has a very wide arsenal of passes, and just enough arm strength to make them all useful. In addition, the pocket movement is very, very nice.

But his ceiling isn't Lance's ceiling.

Tom bradys ceiling was.never going to be Josh Allen's ceiling. Montanas ceiling was never going to be Elways ceiling. Athleticism amd rocket arms don't make superbowl winning qbs. There's that determination and competitiveness, and attitude that you can't teach.

For every five Elway's there are thousands of Nick Mullens's.
May 12, 2022 at 3:09 PM
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
1)I have not once seen you admit when you are wrong, ever. Because you always believe you are right. Even when the evidence proves otherwise.

2) I didn't know you were a fortune teller. There is no way to say one way or the other what Mac Jones career will look like. He could end up having a Peyton Manning type career or he could end up having an Andy Dalton type career. The jury is still out on him.

3) You made a statement about this past season and I responded with the top rookie performances in NFL history that show Mac was comparable to those. Then you move the goal posts and start bringing up your fortune telling predictions for his career. Meaning, you lost the argument about what type of season Mac really had so you moved on to a subject that is well, subjective. Because you cannot observe something that hasn't happened yet.

1. This is completely false. Go read about my takes on Solomon Thomas and then admitting my evaluation on him being wrong. Go read my takes on Mahomes, I thought he was raw as s**t with horrible mechanics and played in a scheme that doesn't translate to the NFL. I had no problem admitting I was wrong there. I thought Josh Rosen was gonna be a damn good QB. You can evaluate the player from a skill set but know nothing about the player. those are just a couple off the top of my head I went to bat for and was wrong and have no problem admitting I was wrong….I then learn from that and change how I value these prospects.

so yeah not my fault you didn't see those posts, but they're there. I disagree with you stance on McCorkle. You provided a article from 5 yrs ago. Where's Baker/Herbert/Murray? Also not every rookie played a full season which imo changes stats all together. Watson gets a full season he's blowing away those stats if Lamar Jackson plays a whole yr he's in that discussion etc.

Damn near everything we talk about in here is subjective. Tossing out a couple stats doesn't prove anything imo. I physically watched a ton of their games just because of where I live and the people I watch games with.

I can attest that NYniner85 was way, WAY off on Mahomes.
May 12, 2022 at 3:11 PM
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
1)I have not once seen you admit when you are wrong, ever. Because you always believe you are right. Even when the evidence proves otherwise.

2) I didn't know you were a fortune teller. There is no way to say one way or the other what Mac Jones career will look like. He could end up having a Peyton Manning type career or he could end up having an Andy Dalton type career. The jury is still out on him.

3) You made a statement about this past season and I responded with the top rookie performances in NFL history that show Mac was comparable to those. Then you move the goal posts and start bringing up your fortune telling predictions for his career. Meaning, you lost the argument about what type of season Mac really had so you moved on to a subject that is well, subjective. Because you cannot observe something that hasn't happened yet.

1. This is completely false. Go read about my takes on Solomon Thomas and then admitting my evaluation on him being wrong. Go read my takes on Mahomes, I thought he was raw as s**t with horrible mechanics and played in a scheme that doesn't translate to the NFL. I had no problem admitting I was wrong there. I thought Josh Rosen was gonna be a damn good QB. You can evaluate the player from a skill set but know nothing about the player. those are just a couple off the top of my head I went to bat for and was wrong and have no problem admitting I was wrong….I then learn from that and change how I value these prospects.

so yeah not my fault you didn't see those posts, but they're there. I disagree with you stance on McCorkle. You provided a article from 5 yrs ago. Where's Baker/Herbert/Murray? Also not every rookie played a full season which imo changes stats all together. Watson gets a full season he's blowing away those stats if Lamar Jackson plays a whole yr he's in that discussion etc.

Damn near everything we talk about in here is subjective. Tossing out a couple stats doesn't prove anything imo.

Baker and Kylar both had similar rookie seasons to Mac Jones. Do you think Herbert has the same type of rookie season if he had Meyers and Bourne as his top passing targets instead of Allen and Williams? Also, Who cares if the article was from 5 years ago? It still proves my point that Mac had a solid season for a rookie QB.

Why are you bringing up partial seasons from other rookie QB's? How are they even relevant to the conversation? Saying what could have been does not help your argument. The debate was whether Mac Jones had a solid season as a rookie QB. It wasn't a debate on whether or not Mac Jones will turn out to be another Tom Brady. Give credit where credit is due. He made some fantastic throws out there. Throws that Jimmy G still can't make.

Yes. Mac had some down moments last season. He threw some interceptions. So does every rookie QB who plays the entire season. No one comes out looking like Justin Herbert unless you have weapons like he has.

I mean it's not a good idea to compare Jones to Herbert. Weapons or not, Herbert is twice the QB Jones is.
May 12, 2022 at 3:15 PM
Originally posted by NDSU:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
If that is true than why is Jimmy's win percentage so high?
Thats easy.


Actually I recently started a lame QB metric based on win correlation, and it turns out, interceptions per game did not correlate strongly with win percentage in 2021. You had the Super Bowl winner throwing 17 pics. The Super Bowl loser throwing 14. Touchdown passes per game were significantly more important than interceptions per game. In fact, passes which result in first downs were even more important than touchdown passes, in terms of correlation with win percentage.

Moving the chains >> not throwing interceptions.

At least for 2021...
May 12, 2022 at 3:18 PM
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by YACBros85:

I am not sure how Herbert having a s**tty defense helps your argument. It would mean that Herbert's numbers are more inflated because they had to pass the ball more.

it's showing he had to put the team on his back. He wasn't allowed to let the team around him prop him up….when the NE D started to collapse down the stretch Jones started playing worse.

it also shows that watching the games are a little more important than just looking at stats.

But Herbert hasn't put the team on his back. They have yet to make the playoffs.

Some teams are heavier than others...

EDIT—Oh yeah, Herbert had 5 4QCs last year.
[ Edited by 5_Golden_Rings on May 12, 2022 at 3:21 PM ]
Search
YouTube
Flipboard
Instagram
Threads
✕
Open Menu Search Share 49ersWebzone