Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Trey has been sacked 3 times for 7 yards lost.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Franchise408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol how is more meaningful? That does not factor in YAC. We're talking about QB play. There's a reason why everyone focuses on IAY and ADot it is a MUCH better reflection of what the QB is doing overall…but I'm sure if his numbers were better you'd be all about it

Because YPA show how the offense is actually moving.
IAY does not.

IAY don't count for more than YAC yards. You're just obsessed with meaningless IAY.

It's literally a madden stat that was incorporated into FF that is now being used to judge real time NFL players by fans on this forum. Crazy stuff....

...and it's a disparaging stat for Jimmy for the anything-but-Jimmy crowd. That's the reality of it. If anything air yards tell us more about Kyle than anything.

TTT is far more informative. For instance, if your QB is top 5 annually in getting rid of the ball quickly, but he's still getting hit 125 times a year (top 2), what does that tell you about your pass protection? If your QB is up near or over 3sec, what do you need for pass protection and what do you expect in holdings and P.I. calls?

I just spent 20 minutes finding a correlation between winning and IAY/PA. The five QBs who have won the most since 2018 average being ranked 10 in that "meaningless" stat, and 12 in YPA. It's not meaningless. You just don't like the reality that our starting QB is limited in where he can successfully attack the field, and you refuse to believe that is a weakness.

Thank you for doing that but you're missing the boat. This isn't about the QB. It's about Kyle and his 13, now 14 years of evidence no matter the QB.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
Gotta subtract the 60 yards in sacks though, so only 1800.

make sure to do the same for SF and all the other teams too

That is how total offense yardage already works.

Then why we bringing up sack yards when we're talking about total yards?

Because on that list, the sack yardage has been subtracted from the team totals but not from Jackson's.

It's mostly tongue in cheek though, as the yardage total is still nuts for him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes he has.

When? He missed time in a game because he had to take a s**t once. He missed on game because of COVID. He missed one game in three years in college.

He got a concussion vs the Bills in the divisional playoff game a year or two ago.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:
Until Air Yards filters out screen passes and designed slides/bootlegs where the primary read is 2 yards downfield, I can't take it seriously. I do like the passing chart that shows where the QB's targets go. I think having a QB that can target all areas of the field is a benefit to the offense.

What do you mean? Air yards shows how far a balls travels before it hits a receiver. YPA doesn't factor in YAC. ADot is something we can use if you prefer? Avg depth of target.

He's meaning it's a stat that can skew with no mention of context. A qb can throw 4, 20 yard passes and 5 screens for -3 yards and they'll have a little over 7 IAY. Are we gonna say that's a QB that lives in the intermediate range? That's his point - unless it filters out throws designed to get the ball to a guy short, like a screen or quick bootleg slide - then it doesn't really tell the story and doesn't factor in the specific offense they run. For example, we run a ton of those plays where Deebo comes across and it's essentially a hand-off in front of the QB. JG gets a -4 air yards on plays like that. Against PHI we ran like 11 screen plays because they were playing so deep(Kyle's words, not mine) so air yards are going to be skewed way low.

And he's incorrect, because over a long enough sample size, every team runs around the same number of screens, etc. There is variance, but it's not a massive difference. 16 games is plenty of data to more or less normalize those things.

I'm going to need to see some evidence on that claim.

It's pretty obviously true. You might see five or six screens in a game AT BEST, which means the vast majority of passes are NOT screens. Per PFF, Kyler Murray had the most screen pass yards in 2019, and it was only 575. The Bills in 2019 only attempted 18 screen passes to running backs, and only 36 total screens all year, according to Buffalo News Charts.

I could keep digging for you, but it ought to be enough to convince you that screen passes aren't a massive factor compared to all the other passes thrown. And "by obviousness," it ought to be clear to you that every team attempts somewhere around two or three per game, on average.

It wasn't about YAC but volume of screens as they affect air yard averages. A screen is going to massively reduce AIY like one deep pass will skew the average. With the poor pass protection we had during spurts, Kyle would throw 8 passes for negative yards but high in YAC but those AIY are counted against the QB.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
You got like 15 teams vs 1. Of course the 15 will do better.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Originally posted by Scooper1:
So funny that bamaniner is constantly talking s**t about the level of competition Trey played in when the fcs has produced more quality starting qbs than the hands down premier program in college football in Alabama. They can't even produce a guy that can win a starting job let alone be a quality starter. Jury's still out on mac obviously . Everyone knew he'd be the most nfl ready in the class but can he do anymore than game manage?? Certainly has zero special traits whatsoever.

Alabama qbs you'd think a program like Alabama could produce Atleast 1 decent qb
-Mac ?
-Tua-not very good and injury prone. Dolphins spend a #5 overall and there's already tons of chatter they'll move on. Not a good look.
-mccaron trash
-McElroy-trash

FCS
-Lance???
-Wentz- 3rd in mvp voting, quality starter injury prone
-Garappolo-quality starter. Super bowl qb
-Joe Flacco-quality starter super bowl mvp
-Tony Romo-far better than quality starters
-Ryan Fitzpatrick-10-12 year career
-Steve McNair-nfl mvp super bowl mvp
-Kurt Warner- hall of famer

Long story short ndsu and eastern Illinois can produce better qbs than Alabama.

You got like 15 teams vs 1. Of course the 15 will do better.

The post is a bit tongue in cheek, but eastern Illinois and ndsu have both produced better qbs than bama. This is a "lower level" competition vs. the premier program in all of college sports. You'd think they could atleast produce someone serviceable. The point is there is no correlation between college football team and pro qb success whatsoever.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes he has.

When? He missed time in a game because he had to take a s**t once. He missed on game because of COVID. He missed one game in three years in college.

Google is your friend.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BSofSF:
Yes, like winding up, throwing it too hard, throwing it without touch, throwing it inaccurately, and a desire to run north-south. How is it so controversial to compare obvious similarities between Lance and Kaepernick? The key distinction, you argue, is that Lance is looking down field and is going to make the plays that Kaepernick couldn't. My reply to that is, fine, when he is doing that we'll know. Won't need to study tape of where his eyes and feet are on still pause, because he'll be consistently moving chains and breaking the backs of defenses. He's not there yet. I'm not bitter that he's not there yet. It was well advertised that he'll need time to sit and develop. But, in the meantime, I'd rather see us try to make the playoffs this year with Jimmy.

LOL talk about being dramatic with takes....his "wind up" is nothing compared to Kap. You've got QB coaches talking about it saying it's not an issue. He has fast hands which helps with any "longer" throw. Go look around the league plenty of QBs don't have tight compact releases. It's literally the one thing that Jimmy does well and probably what you're use to seeing. The whole throwing without touch is such a bad take too. He throws it hard when he has too. tight window throws can't flutter in there, especially with these middle of the field throws into traffic. He had no problem throwing with touch on screens and to juice on those hot routes.

He is BY FAR more twitchy then Kap. He made moves inside the pocket to get around pressure that Kap can't make. WHY not compare him to Josh Allen? Both weren't 5 star recruits, both played in smaller colleges, both have elite skill sets, both have had accuracy issues (Allen was actually worse), both didn't have ideal mechanics coming into the league, both relied on their legs early into their career.

Why do you think we make the playoffs with Jimmy?

Why don't I compare him to Josh Allen? Because I don't watch Josh Allen play much. I watch the 49ers. I agree that Lance is more fluid of an athlete than Kaepernick. The similarities I see are more in the passing. Strong arms, but lacking precision and touch. I'll stop there because there will be no appeasing a man who has 85,000 posts.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Lamar takes a dump when he plays real defenses and looks amazing against mediocre defenses. That's why he sucks in the postseason.

So INDY's D is junk? with the guy everyone cries about SF trading away? Before the season started everyone was like hell no to Lance playing vs that D lol.

I mean it's not like Jackson or any of these young QBs can't you know improve...dude was going through reads and making TW throws. s**t takes time to become a good QB in this league. It's taken Jimmy 8 years just to become okay.

.@Ravens @Lj_era8 slicing the @Colts up from the pocket; resisting the urge to take off. He knows exactly what he is looking at. We haven't even seen the best of LJ yet. It truly is a new era #ravensflock #BaldysBreakdowns pic.twitter.com/NnFtkJWuma

— Brian Baldinger (@BaldyNFL) October 12, 2021

You're the one saying how s**tty indys defense is. One player doesn't make a defense. Yes, Buckner should have never been traded.

Back to Lamar, he looks great against s**tty defenses. There is no way around it. He is a special player, but he needs to get over that hump. And Lance is nowhere near the runner Lamar is. Lamar is superfast and ellusive. Lance looks much slower and not ellusive at all. I guess that GPS wasn't accurate.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
Well since you go back to Warner and McNair I will go back to
Joe Namath
Bart Starr
Ken Stabler
Anyways Trey played like 13 games and used his legs in big games as opposed to his arm. That doesn't work with the big boys

Only it does in today's game. The league is setup for that now. The rules have changed...we all want a guy that can do both and Lance will require more time to focus on in the pocket play...but any logical patient fan should understand this.

It works with one guy, Lamar, who is nothing like Trey. Lamar has elite, as in off the charts quickness, twitch, agility, body control and long speed. Trey is not elite in any of those.
Lamar is the only qb close to using his legs as much as his arms. Trey is already hurt after one game of running 16 times. He cannot sustain that.
Your takes continue to be proved as crap yet you keep coming back for more. That's admirable

Allen made several big runs and so did Herbert. QBs are running more because they're more athletic as a group than they used to be. Plus the poor pass blocking around the league is often forcing it.

I recall a play in Sunday's game where Trey was struggling for extra yards with a tackler hanging on around his legs. I remember thinking at the time that it was a good way to suffer a knee injury. I wonder if that's when he did it. It can't be too severe if he was able to play the entire game and didn't even feel it until that night.

Originally posted by BamaNiner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BamaNiner:
Well since you go back to Warner and McNair I will go back to
Joe Namath
Bart Starr
Ken Stabler
Anyways Trey played like 13 games and used his legs in big games as opposed to his arm. That doesn't work with the big boys

Only it does in today's game. The league is setup for that now. The rules have changed...we all want a guy that can do both and Lance will require more time to focus on in the pocket play...but any logical patient fan should understand this.

It works with one guy, Lamar, who is nothing like Trey. Lamar has elite, as in off the charts quickness, twitch, agility, body control and long speed. Trey is not elite in any of those.
Lamar is the only qb close to using his legs as much as his arms. Trey is already hurt after one game of running 16 times. He cannot sustain that.
Your takes continue to be proved as crap yet you keep coming back for more. That's admirable

you made a new account last year and already a majority of the people here think 9moon is a better poster than you. Lol at calling other people's takes crap.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Franchise408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Lol how is more meaningful? That does not factor in YAC. We're talking about QB play. There's a reason why everyone focuses on IAY and ADot it is a MUCH better reflection of what the QB is doing overall…but I'm sure if his numbers were better you'd be all about it

Because YPA show how the offense is actually moving.
IAY does not.

IAY don't count for more than YAC yards. You're just obsessed with meaningless IAY.

It's literally a madden stat that was incorporated into FF that is now being used to judge real time NFL players by fans on this forum. Crazy stuff....

...and it's a disparaging stat for Jimmy for the anything-but-Jimmy crowd. That's the reality of it. If anything air yards tell us more about Kyle than anything.

TTT is far more informative. For instance, if your QB is top 5 annually in getting rid of the ball quickly, but he's still getting hit 125 times a year (top 2), what does that tell you about your pass protection? If your QB is up near or over 3sec, what do you need for pass protection and what do you expect in holdings and P.I. calls?

I just spent 20 minutes finding a correlation between winning and IAY/PA. The five QBs who have won the most since 2018 average being ranked 10 in that "meaningless" stat, and 12 in YPA. It's not meaningless. You just don't like the reality that our starting QB is limited in where he can successfully attack the field, and you refuse to believe that is a weakness.

Thank you for doing that but you're missing the boat. This isn't about the QB. It's about Kyle and his 13, now 14 years of evidence no matter the QB.

Nah everyone in here says there's no correlation YET there seems to be... if you truthfully believe if Kyle had Watson/Mahomes/Allen as his QB that he would take away their skill set and make them damn near bottom of the league in IAY I would say I don't buy it.

I mean Matt Ryan's 2016 MVP year his IAY was 9...that's not elite but it's FAR from what Jimmy has been (like 2.5 yards more). I can't find AY from 2009 but every other metric from matt schaub (and film) shows he wasn't bottom of the league in IAY in Houston (especially 2009).

Originally posted by BSofSF:
Why don't I compare him to Josh Allen? Because I don't watch Josh Allen play much. I watch the 49ers. I agree that Lance is more fluid of an athlete than Kaepernick. The similarities I see are more in the passing. Strong arms, but lacking precision and touch. I'll stop there because there will be no appeasing a man who has 85,000 posts.

Lol what in the world does my post count have to do with anything? Literally nothing...I simply disagree with your comparison, it's very closeminded and I can see why, you don't watch anything but 49er games apparently.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yes he has.

When? He missed time in a game because he had to take a s**t once. He missed on game because of COVID. He missed one game in three years in college.

Google is your friend.

Maybe listen to your own advice? Instead of making a snarky "go google it"

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32308712/lamar-jackson-sits-baltimore-ravens-practice-due-sore-back

Jackson has never missed a game due to injury in his four-year NFL career. The only games in which he didn't play were the 2019 season finale (when the Ravens had already clinched the No. 1 seed in the AFC) and Week 12 last season in Pittsburgh (after he had tested positive for COVID-19).