Los Angeles Chargers QB Trey Lance Thread

Is the first step for a rookie QB to execute an NFL offense or is to get accustomed to the speed of the game?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:
If the goal is to develop Lance, yesterday was a wasted day. You are correct. Shanahan's offense went out the window. What we saw yesterday is not sustainable nor did it help Lance learn how to play. Instead of just run, run, run, there should have been more of the regular NFL offense. Give the kid some real meat to chew on. That failure is on Shanahan.

Nah it wasn't a wasted day at all...he got to see game a speed defense. He got to see blitzes and coverages. He had to make reads and now has some film to go over and correct all the same.

every game is a chance to learn and get better regardless of how it played out. I completely disagree with that statement.

Of course, there was some benefit, however, what he was doing yesterday looked a lot like his college game film. I just believe it would have been much more beneficial to have kept more to the standard KS offense with some added runs for Lance. Mitchell looked great when he was given the ball but he disappeared in the second half. Why?

Originally posted by a49erfan77:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by dj43:
If the goal is to develop Lance, yesterday was a wasted day. You are correct. Shanahan's offense went out the window. What we saw yesterday is not sustainable nor did it help Lance learn how to play. Instead of just run, run, run, there should have been more of the regular NFL offense. Give the kid some real meat to chew on. That failure is on Shanahan.

It's only wasted if he can't take anything away from the game to learn from and I feel there were definitely things to take from the game. The hope is that the more a rookie plays, the slower the game gets. Besides the INT that was a result of inaccuracy, not a bad read, he took care of the ball and did not have any near INT throws from what I remember. There were plays where he had time and didn't pull the trigger downfield, and I'd like see why he didn't. Give him a chance to learn from the mistakes before we claim that it was a wasted effort.

If this is the kind of offense it's going to be going forward, I agree. If not, then there isn't but a handful of plays to learn from given the volume of QB runs and only 15 completions. But to your larger point, there is always something to learn from.

Very hard to judge what the offense is going to look like considering he only had a week to prepare. I'd wager if he starts after the bye week, it'll look much more like the normal Kyle offense.

Those QB runs are part of the "Lance offense". Obviously it doesn't develop his dropback passing game on those reps, but those QB runs are called with the idea of moving the chains to keep the offense on, so that dropback passing plays can be called.

I thought we saw how Kyle envisions using Lance quite a bit yesterday. It's a running game that includes the QB, while using playaction to set up plays downfield. The substitution of Jennings out, and TBenjamin in, told me how Kyle wanted the passing game to look - more speed to threaten downfield. There were times Lance looked downfield but saw nothing he liked. I don't know if no one was open enough and Lance didn't like what he saw, or he is simply adjusting to what it means to be "open" in the NFL.

Originally posted by JTB1974:
Trey's PFF grade was higher than 3 of Jimmy's 4 starts this season.

A rookie in his first start outplaying an 8 year vet with 4 years in the offense.

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I sincerely hope Kyle gets rid of this stupid Cam Newton style offense with Trey. Also, I'm concerned about the wind up.. I don't know if there's any way to fix that release speed, because it's a problem right now.

Offense looks way too much like Cam Newton. Agreed.

As much as I like Lance I did not like the Cam Newton vibes I was getting watching him play - hopefully that changes with different playcalling.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by dj43:
If the goal is to develop Lance, yesterday was a wasted day. You are correct. Shanahan's offense went out the window. What we saw yesterday is not sustainable nor did it help Lance learn how to play. Instead of just run, run, run, there should have been more of the regular NFL offense. Give the kid some real meat to chew on. That failure is on Shanahan.

Nah it wasn't a wasted day at all...he got to see game a speed defense. He got to see blitzes and coverages. He had to make reads and now has some film to go over and correct all the same.

every game is a chance to learn and get better regardless of how it played out. I completely disagree with that statement.

Of course, there was some benefit, however, what he was doing yesterday looked a lot like his college game film. I just believe it would have been much more beneficial to have kept more to the standard KS offense with some added runs for Lance. Mitchell looked great when he was given the ball but he disappeared in the second half. Why?

Lance is not good enough at the moment to operate an offense that consists of rhythm passing plays in the short/quick game (Jimmy's bread and butter). Had Kyle dialed up a bunch of those plays yesterday I would have considered it putting Lance in a position to fail. Would it have given Lance more reps to work on what he needs to develop? Yes, but there was a game to try and win so there is a balancing act for Kyle when it comes to the playcalling.

Lance played as best as he could. Unfortunately, he's a rookie, and it is what it is. Whoever starts the next game, it might really not matter this season.

The only thing that is for sure, is that the 49ers will play a total of 17 games this season. A very low chance they get in as the 7th seed, and if they do, a high chance they lose the first playoff game.

We have to, sooner or later, move onto 2022.

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I sincerely hope Kyle gets rid of this stupid Cam Newton style offense with Trey. Also, I'm concerned about the wind up.. I don't know if there's any way to fix that release speed, because it's a problem right now.

Offense looks way too much like Cam Newton. Agreed.

As much as I like Lance I did not like the Cam Newton vibes I was getting watching him play - hopefully that changes with different playcalling.

Like it or not, those QB runs are what helps put Lance in his comfort zone. It's what he did in college and he doesn't suck at it. For a rookie QB in his first start, you want to give him what he knows, then mix in what he needs to learn.

Originally posted by thl408:
Like it or not, those QB runs are what helps put Lance in his comfort zone. It's what he did in college and he doesn't suck at it. For a rookie QB in his first start, you want to give him what he knows, then mix in what he needs to learn.

This. If Lance is going to play, Lance is going to run.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I wanted the team to pull out the win, was frustrated by how it seemed so close, yet so far. I am irritated by the injuries but you know what I'm gonna believe we have a shot until we don't.

Before the season started, if someone had told you we would have the same record as Kansas City after 5 games, we would both be ecstatic. As of now, I don't think either team is giving up.

Success in the playoffs depends largely on a team being relatively free of injuries and peaking as the playoffs begin. I could easily see a 10/11 win NFC West team rolling into the playoffs and doing well. No reason to give up now.

Exactly!

I listened to some pundits say they saw some good things from Trey yesterday. I'm sorry but I saw VERY little to be excited about. I realize this was his first full game but in 5 years 'the big trade up' will be deemed a failure. What I saw yesterday was:

-an incredibly hesitant quarterback who couldn't make fast enough reads (and this is scary considering how well shanny can scheme players open)
-an incredibly inaccurate quarterback who sails balls, throws behind receivers consistently and can't 'throw revivers open'
-a QB with an incredibly slow wind up delivery that lets corners break on the receiver faster and D linemen bat down balls with regularity
- a QB who can run behind blockers in designed QB run plays but is takes way too many hits and is not a quick moving QB who can escape d lineman well at all.
- a QB with poor pocket awareness

ok maybe he can be coached to improve in some of these areas but ALL OF THEM? Hell no. Sorry.. it's not going to happen. Period. On top of that when was the last time a team won the super bowl let alone got to a Super Bowl based on a QB that could only run and throw well only intermittently? And the way he runs? It's only a matter of time until he is in the concussion protocol or lands on IR. I never bought the hype about "yay he can run! Look at him run!" I don't want a running QB. It s recipe for
disaster which is what this huge trade will end up being. Shanny and Lynch will but end up loosing their jobs over this.
Here's the other thing. Just look at the top tier QBs in this league: they are SOOOO good. So much better that Trey can ever be. Josh Alllen? Justin Herbert? Mahomes? Murray? Only to name a few. They are just so much better. They throw with velocity and accuracy, pocket awareness. and most of them even run better.
As much as I hate to say this get ready for years and years of disappointment. I know it's one game but it's all there to see. Just thinking about it makes me feel like his mother in the stands last might with her face in her hands.

Originally posted by thl408:
Lance is not good enough at the moment to operate an offense that consists of rhythm passing plays in the short/quick game (Jimmy's bread and butter). Had Kyle dialed up a bunch of those plays yesterday I would have considered it putting Lance in a position to fail. Would it have given Lance more reps to work on what he needs to develop? Yes, but there was a game to try and win so there is a balancing act for Kyle when it comes to the playcalling.

100%. People want Trey developed for 2022, Kyle is fighting to win games. Cause that's his job.

All in all I was quite pleased with Trey's outing. The one thing that our team could benefit from is a better slot receiver. I watch Robert Woods on the Rams and immediately have "wide receiver" envy. But heck, I'd settle for a healthy Trent Taylor/Wes Welker type of jitterbug that can quickly find the seams in the defense. Having such a player as a safety outlet would be a huge plus.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah at the half, Jimmy Johnson said he already had 9 QB runs to 11 passes. That's just not sustainable.

Aside from the long windup that gives a tell to DL (knock downs at the LOS) and DB's (passes defensed), wobbly balls, high balls, clock management, diving on the heels of OL, poor short touch and ball location, etc. my biggest concern is the offense itself.

This is a straight up college offense right now and after one week of film, NFL defenses will crush it going forward. 10 points will become harder to come by. Like Kyle's 85%, it held true. 0 deep passing attempts. Low air yards. Defenders will load the A gaps and force him into 2nd and 13 (like Jimmy).

As to Trey himself, you can see the arm talent and the ability when his mechanics are on. He moved to some second reads, he audibled, he ran hard and tough, he's coachable, smart, made many great reads, moment not too big for him, etc.

I feel 100% comfortable starting him again but this offense has to change going forward. For his own health AND growth.

If the goal is to develop Lance, yesterday was a wasted day. You are correct. Shanahan's offense went out the window. What we saw yesterday is not sustainable nor did it help Lance learn how to play. Instead of just run, run, run, there should have been more of the regular NFL offense. Give the kid some real meat to chew on. That failure is on Shanahan.

I feel the same way.

Besides experiencing the speed of the game, he'll learn most studying his game tape and hopefully we have a coach holding his hand 24/7 through this learning process. Shanny and Lynch put their legacy on him and I am sure yesterday was a learning process and not what Shanny envisions with him....I hope.

I wish he didn't call so much inside qb runs. That's what makes me doubt Shanny.

One positive for me, I never thought we were out of it with this kid, even with 3rd and long. He definitely needs to square away his throwing motion and he'll be good to go.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Ezekiel38:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
I sincerely hope Kyle gets rid of this stupid Cam Newton style offense with Trey. Also, I'm concerned about the wind up.. I don't know if there's any way to fix that release speed, because it's a problem right now.

Offense looks way too much like Cam Newton. Agreed.

As much as I like Lance I did not like the Cam Newton vibes I was getting watching him play - hopefully that changes with different playcalling.

Like it or not, those QB runs are what helps put Lance in his comfort zone. It's what he did in college and he doesn't suck at it. For a rookie QB in his first start, you want to give him what he knows, then mix in what he needs to learn.

Gonna get killed in the pros if the plan doesnt change. Not protecting himself. Agree the concept is right (make him comfortable) but the outcomes are flat out dangerous. Not an option.