Mac Jones-QB-49ers

Originally posted by Joecool:
Why wouldn't Kyle want a Mac Jones that can run 4.4 forty. That is what Fields is.

No he is not

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Just a question. How is accuracy rate even determined? Isnt it all subjective?

What is really starting to annoy me is that fans are now attempting to turn football into baseball with their analytics and stats. Thats why I hate PFF. This is football, dont use damn analytics and stats and other crap to determine whether a player is going to succeed or not.

It's less subjective than trying to determine a QB's ability to process and apply the playbook. Especially a QB that is in an ideal situation. Mac Jones has a higher probability to be a Matt Lienert or Mark Sanchez than anything else.

Wow that's like saying field's ceiling is going to literally be marcus mariota or Josh Johnson.

I will say that I think Mac Jones is far more athletic than he's given credit for. But the biggest concern for me is the ideal situation he had around him. History has shown that QBs in powerhouse ideal situations aren't usually ready for the NFL and take even longer to figure it out because they are forced to do everything faster and out of the comfort that they were accustomed to.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I'll just add that the 3rd (i believe ) is a compensatory pick for the Saleh hire, and in my mind isn't part of the regular 7 draft picks. So in my view its two low first round picks if (big if) it turns out we have a younger more healthy Jimmy 2.0 that's a bit more mobile and has a bit better arm/mind/accuracy. (And I don't think Jimmy is a bad QB at all) in my eyes. Jones = Fields, I'd be ecstatic with either one.

It's still a pick regardless of how it came about...it's a rookie contract and right around a top 100 pick that you're giving away.

How people keep saying it's only 2 1sts is just dumb too. IF we were just drafting someone at 12, you're using the 12th overall pick in the 2021 draft to get that person. That IS a pick. So now we're using the 3rd overall pick to get a QB plus 3 more future picks.

We have no idea how healthy Jones will be...he couldn't even play in the Senior bowl because of an ankle. He's got 17 starts behind the best OL (by far) in the country. Kid never dealt with a ton of stress back there. He never had to play from behind much. It was all ahead of the chains and just walking out there with more talent top to bottom across the roster and coaching staff.

In no world is Jones equal to Fields. simply not true.

I will say I'm happy you're cool with whomever, I will not be. not at QB.

You said yourself its hard to judge intangibles - so ill take you at your word and ignore your claims on Macs and Fields intangibles being equal. I think Macs intangibles are greater than Fields intangibles - the way that fields athleticism out classes Macs. Thats my take on it after watching the film on both of them. Thats why I think they are equal. I have no doubt that Kyle can squeeze everything and then some from either one, the way he did with Mullens. Both will be excellent QBs in the NFL.

I don't see a real big difference in the rams and Seattle trading number ones for free agents- specially when the bust rate for first rounders in general are upwards of 40%. The only difference is ShanaLynch is gambling on coaching being correct vs Rams and Seattle gambling the GM being correct.

Its a big gamble, no doubt about it. If they are wrong, its going to hurt the 49ers for a while. I think thats the other reason to spend so much draft capital, and it was to buy time (one month) to do their due diligence. They have generally drafted well in the later rounds, so I can see them making some of that up in UDFA and lower rounds if #3 was a bad pick. For example-- Kittle did help make the 2017 draft more of a success despite the whole first round being a bust.

I think Kyle is so confident (bordering on arrogance) that his schemes are so good, he doesn't really need a atheltic QB that can save his scheme if his scheme breaks down. That's how I'm reading it. We shall see on the 29th.

Can't use intangibles to draft a player. You can use personality and white-board know-how, but you are setting up to fail if anyone thinks one person has more intangibles than another.

Disagree, you can see the inconsistencies with regards to Fields pocket performance vs Macs. Mac, overall on film, is just more consistent in his ability to throw. He plays faster in the pocket vs Fields.

Intangibles are intangibles- they are hard to put into words to quantify them, and so these are just how I feel about how fields and Mac play in the pocket.

I understand that Mac played with NFL caliber recievers and Fields didn't and so tried to just isolate the QB performance. I think both have great upside in the pocket intangibles areas, and I'm counting on Kyle to coach both up to Tom Brady standards. I know both have that potential. Right now I just think Mac has a bit of a lead in that department.

Not exactly. Jones had the most time to throw and was pressured the least. His situation was ideal. A college QB coming from ideal situation in doesn't go into an NFL ideal situation,...ever. The odds of him regressing are much higher.

I've seen Feilds take off too soon and leave some plays on the gridiron. The NFL will be a faster place and his athleticism won't have as much impact as it had in college. You have to factor that into your assessment too. There are linebackers and Dlinemen in the NFL just as fast and much stronger than he is.

Yes but that all depends on the look that he got and the situation. For example, there are times when Russell immediately ditches a play that shows man coverage and takes off for a 15 yard easy scamper.

Here's something good about Mac Jones:

I like *BOTH* Mac and Fields. I think they are both good enough to take you to super bowls as long as Kyle is coaching them. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. I'll just leave it at that.

I think Both will be great pocket passers and great QBs in the NFL. The thing about Fields is that shanahan will have to change some of his offense while Mac will be a plug and play Jimmy 2.0.

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
Yes I can se that, but I like to use the eye test. I just dont see the benefit of stats like accuracy rate or TTT.

Use stats and film...for the most part the go hand in hand. We can all see fields is very accurate. We can all see that Jones gets rid of the ball quickly.

analytics is just a quantitative approach to help evaluate...We should however know when "stats" should be applied and only use it in the proper context of the discussion.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
again go watch the Clemson game if you don't think Fields can throws some quick slants, bubble screens, or shovel passes. He is stupid accurate at the intermate/middle of the field throws

The thought that Fields can't do what Jimmy was asked to do is down right stupid.

Oh we're talking about Fields now?

you're bringing up how kyle "likes" to run his offense...I'm saying go watch fields and that Clemson game. I'm saying all these QBs can do exactly what Kyle asked Jimmy to do. Let's stop acting like only one guys is capable of running this offense like Jimmy did because that completely untrue.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I will say that I think Mac Jones is far more athletic than he's given credit for. But the biggest concern for me is the ideal situation he had around him. History has shown that QBs in powerhouse ideal situations aren't usually ready for the NFL and take even longer to figure it out because they are forced to do everything faster and out of the comfort that they were accustomed to.

I think Kyle is a big factor here. First of all, Kyle knows what you know so maybe he'll make sure to sit him out that first year and then slowly get him acclimated to NFL speed with selected in game appearances. Finally he'll redesign or simplify the offense if he has to. Kyles a good enough coach to figure that out and have a game plan for those issues if Kyle picks Mac. BIG *IF* there.

I was watching QB21 with Mac Jones yesterday and overall he's an impressive kid and good player. What bothered me was he was going over one of his pick 6s from the Auburn game in 2019 and he completely threw his FB under the bus.

He could've easily said I rushed the throw due to pressure and gotten the point across because people can see the FB missing the defender but he made it a point of saying "the fullback just missed the guy"

He adds that it was a hard block but still comes back to the FB missing the block.

It may be nothing but I never like when QBs throw their guys under the bus. People have eyes, they can see when you're getting pressured and things don't go your way. You don't have to lead with that.

Seeing programs like that with Mac shows me a kid who knows football but maybe it's my bias against him at #3 eating at me but I just don't dig how the handles himself.

But not gonna lie if I watched that and we were at 12 still I probably wouldn't have the same read on him lol. The throwing the FB under the bus would bug me though. Bad look for a QB imo.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I will say that I think Mac Jones is far more athletic than he's given credit for. But the biggest concern for me is the ideal situation he had around him. History has shown that QBs in powerhouse ideal situations aren't usually ready for the NFL and take even longer to figure it out because they are forced to do everything faster and out of the comfort that they were accustomed to.

You do make a good point with fields needing nearly 4 sec to diagnose and make a decision, he's not getting that in the NFL let alone this team.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by socal1632:

Originally posted by RonMexico:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
I dont get how you are excited for Jones. What do you envision with Jones vs the past 4 years?

A wide open playbook for Kyle including outside the hash throws, intermediate success and definitely deep success. Like in college, he's going to maximize the talent around him with Aiyuk, Hurd, Deebo, Juice, Kittle and Mostert/Wilson in the passing game. He's going to hit them with proper timing (not leave them out to get killed) for optimal YAC. And if his college career is any indication, he's going to be fully prepared and get better and better the more he plays to the point Kyle will finally be able to fully trust his QB and let it rip.

I want what your smoking!

Wake n bake 420 Tuesday and I'm still not on board

Pass some of that this way. A wide open playbook with a statue who's 35-40 yard passes are ducks. Our online will have to be like Brady oline good. Period. He doesn't have the arm to pop off throws under duress, in the NFL

He thinks Jones is a massive upgrade over JG. I don't see it. Pre Injury JG easily better and he was a 2nd round pick. Post knee JG still had better arm talent imo.

He absolutely has the ability to be far better than JG. That's interesting you've already put a comp and cap on him.

Wait, it's justifiable for you to say he can be far better than JG, but I cannot say he will not be? How does that work?

LOL. Fair.

I mean if KYLE picks him he obviously believes he's of the mold that can be shaped to being better than Garoppolo over time.

Haha, you trust Kyle too much and the all caps means you're a sucker for him! I mean we KNOW Lynch said, you we gotta check out Pat Mahomes, and he said NO because he had a hardon for Cousins. That kind of tunnel vision is how you never win, and why I am a cynic, but believe he would be arrogant and dumb enough to draft Jones. I hope I am wrong and we hear Fields.

I love me some Shanahan's. No doubt about that...blind spots and all.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I will say that I think Mac Jones is far more athletic than he's given credit for. But the biggest concern for me is the ideal situation he had around him. History has shown that QBs in powerhouse ideal situations aren't usually ready for the NFL and take even longer to figure it out because they are forced to do everything faster and out of the comfort that they were accustomed to.

he's about as athletic as Jared Goff or Andy Dalton. His arm talent is about the same as Dalton. He's the same size as Dalton. Andy was also regarded as super heady with great leadership skills and a high football IQ. Could have had him for $10M. Like Dalton Jones will never be a top 5 QB in this league.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I like *BOTH* Mac and Fields. I think they are both good enough to take you to super bowls as long as Kyle is coaching them. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. I'll just leave it at that.

I think Both will be great pocket passers and great QBs in the NFL. The thing about Fields is that shanahan will have to change some of his offense while Mac will be a plug and play Jimmy 2.0.

That sounds suspiciously sensible, sir. We'll have none of that on these boards!

Originally posted by genus49:
I was watching QB21 with Mac Jones yesterday and overall he's an impressive kid and good player. What bothered me was he was going over one of his pick 6s from the Auburn game in 2019 and he completely threw his FB under the bus.

He could've easily said I rushed the throw due to pressure and gotten the point across because people can see the FB missing the defender but he made it a point of saying "the fullback just missed the guy"

He adds that it was a hard block but still comes back to the FB missing the block.

It may be nothing but I never like when QBs throw their guys under the bus. People have eyes, they can see when you're getting pressured and things don't go your way. You don't have to lead with that.

Seeing programs like that with Mac shows me a kid who knows football but maybe it's my bias against him at #3 eating at me but I just don't dig how the handles himself.

But not gonna lie if I watched that and we were at 12 still I probably wouldn't have the same read on him lol. The throwing the FB under the bus would bug me though. Bad look for a QB imo.

I didn't like how he handled himself as his pro days...I don't like all the secretive off field s**t that some people (like Allbright) bring up.

there's just massively better prospects available. Period

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Joecool:
I will say that I think Mac Jones is far more athletic than he's given credit for. But the biggest concern for me is the ideal situation he had around him. History has shown that QBs in powerhouse ideal situations aren't usually ready for the NFL and take even longer to figure it out because they are forced to do everything faster and out of the comfort that they were accustomed to.

I think Kyle is a big factor here. First of all, Kyle knows what you know so maybe he'll make sure to sit him out that first year and then slowly get him acclimated to NFL speed with selected in game appearances. Finally he'll redesign or simplify the offense if he has to. Kyles a good enough coach to figure that out and have a game plan for those issues if Kyle picks Mac. BIG *IF* there.

Kyle is a great OC but even in his offense, the throws are tight more often then they are wide open. JG has a very quick release and is a gunslinger and even he made a ton of throws that required to throw into extremely tight windows.

There is a reason why Mullens, Beathard, or any other SF QB that started had a difficult time in Kyle's offense. One couldn't get the ball there with enough zip. The other was a hair late on his throws. I just don't see Mac Jones having better throwing ability than JG. Even if Jones reads the play correctly, the windows are going to be miniscule. Jones does not have the arm in terms of drive behind his throw for Kyle's offense.

Originally posted by Giedi:
I like *BOTH* Mac and Fields. I think they are both good enough to take you to super bowls as long as Kyle is coaching them. They each have their strengths and weaknesses. I'll just leave it at that.

I think Both will be great pocket passers and great QBs in the NFL. The thing about Fields is that shanahan will have to change some of his offense while Mac will be a plug and play Jimmy 2.0.

Mac is only plug and play to the trimmed down Nick Mullens type offense we ran last season. Not the offense they actually want to run.