Khalil Mack thread

Originally posted by okdkid:

This stuff happens every year. Players know that when they strike a deal the team will wipe the fines away. Has a team in recent memory forced a player to pay multi million dollar fines for holding out? It happens for personal misconduct, but I can't ever remember it happening for a hold out.

I'm under the assumption that they don't pay for the fines they simply don't get paid. It's gonna cost him $800k of new money (each game), not money he currently has.

So if he sits out 5 games then signs a contract the team will give him the $4 million he missed out on while he held out? I feel like that would make holding out a lot more easier for the players, no?

I remember SF was looking for money from Anthony Davis when he went AWOL (signing bonus money I beleive) difference is Davis had a contract, Mack doesn't have a contract he was tagged.

Edit: you might be right with some of that (giving money back)

Here's a great article talking about holdouts

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-the-five-players-still-holding-out-and-the-dynamics-of-each-situation/

Originally posted by susweel:

Mack acting like a diva he's getting paid high amount this year. He should report and try to workout a deal.

He's got one yr worth of money in his pocket dats it...he get injuried he has the chance to loose millions and millions of dollars.

Look at Ryan Shazier he played under the 5th yr option then broke his neck. Dude will never play again and lost about $50 million.

Oakland should pay their best player plain and simple. Dude has done everything right.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by susweel:
Mack acting like a diva he's getting paid high amount this year. He should report and try to workout a deal.

He's got one yr worth of money in his pocket dats it...he get injuried he has the chance to loose millions and millions of dollars.

Look at Ryan Shazier he played under the 5th yr option then broke his neck. Dude will never play again and lost about $50 million.

Oakland should pay their best player plain and simple. Dude has done everything right.

word is he wants $20 million per year, just think what you can get for $20 million thats almost AA and Jimmie Ward combined.

Originally posted by susweel:
word is he wants $20 million per year, just think what you can get for $20 million thats almost AA and Jimmie Ward combined.

10.2 million isn't almost 20 million.

Originally posted by susweel:

word is he wants $20 million per year, just think what you can get for $20 million thats almost AA and Jimmie Ward combined.

Ward is making $8.5 million this yr (agreed stupid)

AA is making $ 3 million in his final yr of his rookie deal. (5th yr option is next yr).

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I think with Kalil you have a dynasty. AGain, just my opinion, but a guy like Aldon changed a mediocre defense to elite - same with Fred and Haley enabled the 49ers to have the longest away game win streak in NFL League history and almost had a 3peat. Edge rushers aren't QB's - agree, but they are darn near the impact players that QB's are. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) but elite edge rushers are the second most expensive player on a team, the first being the QB.

Lockdown CBs cost just as much and one of the best young ones in the league (Marcus Peters) got traded for 2018 4th rd pick and a 2019 2nd rd pick AND he still had 2 yrs left on a rookie deal

Again he's not a QB which is the value people are placing on him in a trade. So we're gonna throw down $100 million on him plus give up 2 1st rd picks, give Jimmy G a but load of cash, AND look to pay Buckner and Fletcher Cox like contract?

Like Gurden said Oakland had the 23rd ranked defense WITH Mack on the field. So no I don't agree a edge player has damn near the same impact as a QB (which is what people are valuing him as far as trade compensation goes).

Why does a player like Chandler Jones only cost a 2nd and a sub par OG? Dude only had 4 less sacks in the same amount of time as Mack and was younger?

Edge rusher has a tremendous impact on offense and defense, similar to the QB in that on 3rd downs if he can close out the opposing offense and give the ball back to his own offense, it benefits the offense. Second place where an elite edge rusher impacts the game is on turnovers due to sacks to the QB or pressuring the QB into throwing interceptions. If you look at the turnover tables, a +1 net turnover ratio equals almost a 70% winning percentage. Again, my classic example, pre-Fred Dean the 49er defense was dead last, post Fred Dean, it was 2nd. Aldon had a similar effect with pre-Aldon 49er defense and Post-Aldon Smith in the HaarBaalke era. In my opinion, I think elite edge rushers are worth *almost* as much in draft capital as an elite QB.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by susweel:

word is he wants $20 million per year, just think what you can get for $20 million thats almost AA and Jimmie Ward combined.

Ward is making $8.5 million this yr (agreed stupid)

AA is making $ 3 million in his final yr of his rookie deal. (5th yr option is next yr).

Yeah you know what I'm saying

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
f**k that 2 1sts...people need to calm down with giving up a million 1sts rd picks lol. Dude isn't a QB and wants to be PAID like one.

1st this yr 2nd next yr and a player depending on who...that's what it should be at MOST. IF some teams wants to throw multiple 1sts and pay him that kind of cash good luck. He's a amazing player but only QBs are worth that type of trade comp IMHO.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. I think Mack would be incredible but draft picks aren't just about potential but also about flexibility, especially when you're building. For example, we are stuck/screwed with Brown at RT if we trade away our 1st last year. I just think at this stage for a team that's not one or two players away from anything, it's early to mortgage any part of the future.

But we ARE one or two players away - and pass rusher is the top need!

We don't need anything in the secondary and the front 7 would be one of the better units in the league with Buckner, Foster, and Mack on the same team. I'm not saying this would automatically make the unit a top 5 defense, but it would certainly put them in the top half (maybe top 10) with potential to be among the league's best. Combine a unit like that with a top offense (which we WILL have) and you are literally in contention for a championship. Our only glaring need on defense is pass rusher, and this addition would solve that.

On offense, a crappy line performed very well with Jimmy last year and is more talented this year. Could we upgrade there? Of course - especially at guard - but it isn't an area of great concern due to the personnel around them, the scheme, and the fact that Jimmy was able to mask the line's deficiencies last year. There's no indication he won't be able to do the same this year. The RB spots are very likely to be a strength due to the fit of all three guys in Shanahan's system. Hyde was fairly effective last year and he was a terrible fit for Shanahan's scheme. I will say we need a true WR1, but Garoppolo has proven to be able to make it work with the guys already here (plus Garcon now). Bottom line: Shanahan's system with Garoppolo at QB is going to be a top 5 unit that will run down the clock with or without a legit WR1. Shanahan will get points on the board regardless!

So, our glaring needs are pass rusher and WR1, in that order. People keep sticking to that "it takes three years" rhetoric, but we really aren't that far away RIGHT NOW. The main knock on the team is the lack of a pass rush. Khalil Mack would fix that.

With that said, I do believe Mack has disappeared in many games, and I'm not just talking about the stat line. I watch the raiders every week, and when Mack doesn't show up on the stat line with a sack or turnover, you don't see him disrupting the game in any way. His presence isn't felt. He's basically been nonexistent in those games. I do believe that's due to the fact that the raiders have no other good players on defense so offenses just focus on eliminating Mack. The fact that they are frequently successful in doing so makes me feel that the people portraying Mack as the 2nd best defender in the league are overrating him a bit. However, with what we already have, I believe Mack would be enough of an upgrade to say we no longer have a weakness at pass rusher.

Acquiring Mack would leave us with a glaring need at WR1 with upgrades at OG needed, but those needs aren't going to ruin our chance at being a contender. Not having a pass rush is what's ruining it for us right now. We should stop acting like we're 6 impact players away from contending. We're much closer than that.

Having said all that, Mack will not be a 49er. Even if the raiders trade him, some team will give up the farm for him. I don't see Lynch doing anything close to that.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jcs:
What does C.Jones have to do with the current value of K.Mack...just as an example we landed Jimmy for a 2nd but that was with just 3 starts to his name. Mack is already a 2x all pro and former DPOY who is looking to potentially move, an instant star to a team where Jones and Jimmy were still in development when they were eventually moved.

What do you mean what does Jones have to do with the value of Mack? Jones got traded for a 2nd and Jonathan cooper....he had 4 less sacks then Mack in the same time span and was also on the 5th yr option. He was 2 yrs younger at the pt of the trade and wasn't asking to be paid as much as Von Miller....AND NE ONLY got a 2nd and a below avg guard!

Multiple 1sts is a boneheaded evaluation of Mack IMO.

IF some team offered multiple 1sts and I'm Oakland I'm making that trade as fast as possible.

Here's my perspective. Without Kalil Mack - I'm projecting we'll probably pick in the high twenties. 25th and lower isn't too far fetched in my opinion -considering how the 49ers went on a 5-0 tear with sub-par offense and defensive personnel.

Now, just assuming we pick 25th, I wouldn't mind trading a first round 25th pick to the raiders, and assuming we'll pick in the high twenties again in 2020, the other first round pick in 2020 would be around also a 25th pick in the first round. In other words, without Kalil Mack, the compensation to the raiders will basically be closer to 2nd round in value than first round. Again, just my opinion. I"m not a trade expert by any means, but I do know that an elite edge rusher makes everybody's job easier and ups the odds of getting deep into the playoffs and into the big dance.

Originally posted by Empire49:
But we ARE one or two players away - and pass rusher is the top need!

We don't need anything in the secondary and the front 7 would be one of the better units in the league with Buckner, Foster, and Mack on the same team. I'm not saying this would automatically make the unit a top 5 defense, but it would certainly put them in the top half (maybe top 10) with potential to be among the league's best. Combine a unit like that with a top offense (which we WILL have) and you are literally in contention for a championship. Our only glaring need on defense is pass rusher, and this addition would solve that.

On offense, a crappy line performed very well with Jimmy last year and is more talented this year. Could we upgrade there? Of course - especially at guard - but it isn't an area of great concern due to the personnel around them, the scheme, and the fact that Jimmy was able to mask the line's deficiencies last year. There's no indication he won't be able to do the same this year. The RB spots are very likely to be a strength due to the fit of all three guys in Shanahan's system. Hyde was fairly effective last year and he was a terrible fit for Shanahan's scheme. I will say we need a true WR1, but Garoppolo has proven to be able to make it work with the guys already here (plus Garcon now). Bottom line: Shanahan's system with Garoppolo at QB is going to be a top 5 unit that will run down the clock with or without a legit WR1. Shanahan will get points on the board regardless!

So, our glaring needs are pass rusher and WR1, in that order. People keep sticking to that "it takes three years" rhetoric, but we really aren't that far away RIGHT NOW. The main knock on the team is the lack of a pass rush. Khalil Mack would fix that.

With that said, I do believe Mack has disappeared in many games, and I'm not just talking about the stat line. I watch the raiders every week, and when Mack doesn't show up on the stat line with a sack or turnover, you don't see him disrupting the game in any way. His presence isn't felt. He's basically been nonexistent in those games. I do believe that's due to the fact that the raiders have no other good players on defense so offenses just focus on eliminating Mack. The fact that they are frequently successful in doing so makes me feel that the people portraying Mack as the 2nd best defender in the league are overrating him a bit. However, with what we already have, I believe Mack would be enough of an upgrade to say we no longer have a weakness at pass rusher.

Acquiring Mack would leave us with a glaring need at WR1 with upgrades at OG needed, but those needs aren't going to ruin our chance at being a contender. Not having a pass rush is what's ruining it for us right now. We should stop acting like we're 6 impact players away from contending. We're much closer than that.

Having said all that, Mack will not be a 49er. Even if the raiders trade him, some team will give up the farm for him. I don't see Lynch doing anything close to that.

Agree 100%, but that doesn't stop me from hoping ShanaLynch can pull off another Jimmy Garoppolo miracle trade!

The most I'd trade for is a 1st and 2nd rounder for him. His asking price is very high, so that has to be considered.

Originally posted by Empire49:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
f**k that 2 1sts...people need to calm down with giving up a million 1sts rd picks lol. Dude isn't a QB and wants to be PAID like one.

1st this yr 2nd next yr and a player depending on who...that's what it should be at MOST. IF some teams wants to throw multiple 1sts and pay him that kind of cash good luck. He's a amazing player but only QBs are worth that type of trade comp IMHO.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. I think Mack would be incredible but draft picks aren't just about potential but also about flexibility, especially when you're building. For example, we are stuck/screwed with Brown at RT if we trade away our 1st last year. I just think at this stage for a team that's not one or two players away from anything, it's early to mortgage any part of the future.

But we ARE one or two players away - and pass rusher is the top need!

We don't need anything in the secondary and the front 7 would be one of the better units in the league with Buckner, Foster, and Mack on the same team. I'm not saying this would automatically make the unit a top 5 defense, but it would certainly put them in the top half (maybe top 10) with potential to be among the league's best. Combine a unit like that with a top offense (which we WILL have) and you are literally in contention for a championship. Our only glaring need on defense is pass rusher, and this addition would solve that.

On offense, a crappy line performed very well with Jimmy last year and is more talented this year. Could we upgrade there? Of course - especially at guard - but it isn't an area of great concern due to the personnel around them, the scheme, and the fact that Jimmy was able to mask the line's deficiencies last year. There's no indication he won't be able to do the same this year. The RB spots are very likely to be a strength due to the fit of all three guys in Shanahan's system. Hyde was fairly effective last year and he was a terrible fit for Shanahan's scheme. I will say we need a true WR1, but Garoppolo has proven to be able to make it work with the guys already here (plus Garcon now). Bottom line: Shanahan's system with Garoppolo at QB is going to be a top 5 unit that will run down the clock with or without a legit WR1. Shanahan will get points on the board regardless!

So, our glaring needs are pass rusher and WR1, in that order. People keep sticking to that "it takes three years" rhetoric, but we really aren't that far away RIGHT NOW. The main knock on the team is the lack of a pass rush. Khalil Mack would fix that.

With that said, I do believe Mack has disappeared in many games, and I'm not just talking about the stat line. I watch the raiders every week, and when Mack doesn't show up on the stat line with a sack or turnover, you don't see him disrupting the game in any way. His presence isn't felt. He's basically been nonexistent in those games. I do believe that's due to the fact that the raiders have no other good players on defense so offenses just focus on eliminating Mack. The fact that they are frequently successful in doing so makes me feel that the people portraying Mack as the 2nd best defender in the league are overrating him a bit. However, with what we already have, I believe Mack would be enough of an upgrade to say we no longer have a weakness at pass rusher.

Acquiring Mack would leave us with a glaring need at WR1 with upgrades at OG needed, but those needs aren't going to ruin our chance at being a contender. Not having a pass rush is what's ruining it for us right now. We should stop acting like we're 6 impact players away from contending. We're much closer than that.

Having said all that, Mack will not be a 49er. Even if the raiders trade him, some team will give up the farm for him. I don't see Lynch doing anything close to that.

We don't need a number one hideout, but we do need to improve our pass rush. Bottom line is were going to overpay for anyone we don't draft. May as well be a 27 year old healthy dpoy

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jcs:
What does C.Jones have to do with the current value of K.Mack...just as an example we landed Jimmy for a 2nd but that was with just 3 starts to his name. Mack is already a 2x all pro and former DPOY who is looking to potentially move, an instant star to a team where Jones and Jimmy were still in development when they were eventually moved.

What do you mean what does Jones have to do with the value of Mack? Jones got traded for a 2nd and Jonathan cooper....he had 4 less sacks then Mack in the same time span and was also on the 5th yr option. He was 2 yrs younger at the pt of the trade and wasn't asking to be paid as much as Von Miller....AND NE ONLY got a 2nd and a below avg guard!

Multiple 1sts is a boneheaded evaluation of Mack IMO.

IF some team offered multiple 1sts and I'm Oakland I'm making that trade as fast as possible.

Here's my perspective. Without Kalil Mack - I'm projecting we'll probably pick in the high twenties. 25th and lower isn't too far fetched in my opinion -considering how the 49ers went on a 5-0 tear with sub-par offense and defensive personnel.

Now, just assuming we pick 25th, I wouldn't mind trading a first round 25th pick to the raiders, and assuming we'll pick in the high twenties again in 2020, the other first round pick in 2020 would be around also a 25th pick in the first round. In other words, without Kalil Mack, the compensation to the raiders will basically be closer to 2nd round in value than first round. Again, just my opinion. I"m not a trade expert by any means, but I do know that an elite edge rusher makes everybody's job easier and ups the odds of getting deep into the playoffs and into the big dance.

I agree its almost 2 second rounders if the team progresses. Mack would open the game up for Buckner to dominate like Warren Sapp and he can be our Simeon Rice. Would be a nice core to build around. Garoppolo, Foster, Mack, Buckner, Kittle, Mcglichy, Witherspoon, Colbert and the rest of the young bucks on the same team the next 5 years sounds like a super bowl opening to me. May as well be a barn door

Originally posted by Giedi:
Here's my perspective. Without Kalil Mack - I'm projecting we'll probably pick in the high twenties. 25th and lower isn't too far fetched in my opinion -considering how the 49ers went on a 5-0 tear with sub-par offense and defensive personnel.

Now, just assuming we pick 25th, I wouldn't mind trading a first round 25th pick to the raiders, and assuming we'll pick in the high twenties again in 2020, the other first round pick in 2020 would be around also a 25th pick in the first round. In other words, without Kalil Mack, the compensation to the raiders will basically be closer to 2nd round in value than first round. Again, just my opinion. I"m not a trade expert by any means, but I do know that an elite edge rusher makes everybody's job easier and ups the odds of getting deep into the playoffs and into the big dance.

Good post.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Edge rusher has a tremendous impact on offense and defense, similar to the QB in that on 3rd downs if he can close out the opposing offense and give the ball back to his own offense, it benefits the offense. Second place where an elite edge rusher impacts the game is on turnovers due to sacks to the QB or pressuring the QB into throwing interceptions. If you look at the turnover tables, a +1 net turnover ratio equals almost a 70% winning percentage. Again, my classic example, pre-Fred Dean the 49er defense was dead last, post Fred Dean, it was 2nd. Aldon had a similar effect with pre-Aldon 49er defense and Post-Aldon Smith in the HaarBaalke era. In my opinion, I think elite edge rushers are worth *almost* as much in draft capital as an elite QB.

Hey I know how important an edge rusher is...I was b***hing about it all draft season

That being said he IS NOT a QB and the internet is valuing him as such with trade compensation. The value goes even further down in the eyes of a GM because you have to make him the highest paid defensive player in the NFL.

Originally posted by Empire49:

Originally posted by NinerGM:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

f**k that 2 1sts...people need to calm down with giving up a million 1sts rd picks lol. Dude isn't a QB and wants to be PAID like one.

1st this yr 2nd next yr and a player depending on who...that's what it should be at MOST. IF some teams wants to throw multiple 1sts and pay him that kind of cash good luck. He's a amazing player but only QBs are worth that type of trade comp IMHO.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. I think Mack would be incredible but draft picks aren't just about potential but also about flexibility, especially when you're building. For example, we are stuck/screwed with Brown at RT if we trade away our 1st last year. I just think at this stage for a team that's not one or two players away from anything, it's early to mortgage any part of the future.

But we ARE one or two players away - and pass rusher is the top need!

We don't need anything in the secondary and the front 7 would be one of the better units in the league with Buckner, Foster, and Mack on the same team. I'm not saying this would automatically make the unit a top 5 defense, but it would certainly put them in the top half (maybe top 10) with potential to be among the league's best. Combine a unit like that with a top offense (which we WILL have) and you are literally in contention for a championship. Our only glaring need on defense is pass rusher, and this addition would solve that.

On offense, a crappy line performed very well with Jimmy last year and is more talented this year. Could we upgrade there? Of course - especially at guard - but it isn't an area of great concern due to the personnel around them, the scheme, and the fact that Jimmy was able to mask the line's deficiencies last year. There's no indication he won't be able to do the same this year. The RB spots are very likely to be a strength due to the fit of all three guys in Shanahan's system. Hyde was fairly effective last year and he was a terrible fit for Shanahan's scheme. I will say we need a true WR1, but Garoppolo has proven to be able to make it work with the guys already here (plus Garcon now). Bottom line: Shanahan's system with Garoppolo at QB is going to be a top 5 unit that will run down the clock with or without a legit WR1. Shanahan will get points on the board regardless!

So, our glaring needs are pass rusher and WR1, in that order. People keep sticking to that "it takes three years" rhetoric, but we really aren't that far away RIGHT NOW. The main knock on the team is the lack of a pass rush. Khalil Mack would fix that.

With that said, I do believe Mack has disappeared in many games, and I'm not just talking about the stat line. I watch the raiders every week, and when Mack doesn't show up on the stat line with a sack or turnover, you don't see him disrupting the game in any way. His presence isn't felt. He's basically been nonexistent in those games. I do believe that's due to the fact that the raiders have no other good players on defense so offenses just focus on eliminating Mack. The fact that they are frequently successful in doing so makes me feel that the people portraying Mack as the 2nd best defender in the league are overrating him a bit. However, with what we already have, I believe Mack would be enough of an upgrade to say we no longer have a weakness at pass rusher.

Acquiring Mack would leave us with a glaring need at WR1 with upgrades at OG needed, but those needs aren't going to ruin our chance at being a contender. Not having a pass rush is what's ruining it for us right now. We should stop acting like we're 6 impact players away from contending. We're much closer than that.

Having said all that, Mack will not be a 49er. Even if the raiders trade him, some team will give up the farm for him. I don't see Lynch doing anything close to that.

While I agree an, ER is necessary I don't think buying him puts us over the top. That's what I meant. And I still don't.we need a beer pipeline of players yet. How much longer will Staley play? How good is McGlinchey? You don't think we need guards? And then with paying that position as high as we would have to it affects other moves we may need to make when a player goes down. I am betting if we have to give up draft capital to get the ER we want, we are doing it during the draft so we don't have to give up picks as well as paying a huge contract. If it was either opt would change my opinion, but it's both having to give up draft picks as well as giving him a huge contract that ham strings us in the future. And I don't think that even with him we are making a SB run this year.