Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I'd disagree, he isn't the same player. Taken a ton of injuries, and that takes a toll. Raiders were fools to install a QB1, who we all knew was not gonna give 17 games or anything close. McD and the GM paid the price already.

What's different about him?

From 2017? An acl, a back, a foot, a shoulder, a thumb, a lot of hits cuz he doesn't unload the ball, etc
Injuries stack on guys, what's different about Dalvin Cook, why is he RB3 in NYJ? Guys get old, when they get a ton of injuries, they get old quick.

No, not from 2017. From 2022, when he had arguably his best individual season in his career.

I disagree in 2022 he had an Orlovsky, then another safety, he missed BA so bad BA has hopping mad, he had his share of clunkers,
now look at the respective teams, the 2017 team had trouble winning a game, the 2022 team imported CMC and was loaded

he was a lot better in 2017, and in 2019 imo, and 2021, than 2022. Just my opinion. the only way you may get fooled into thinking 2022 is his best year, is if you are making a stats argument, and not accounting for the difference in talent around

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Spin cycle is going pretty hard today. You say elite? I'm not saying elite, I'm simply saying he's washed now. He wasn't washed before all the surg, he was a better QB. Happens to all guys, they get old. Russ is an example, he's declined a lot, imo. Now where ppl get off track is they look at a washed guy like Russ and say he was always washed, what sense does that make? That's what you are doing, saying his past self is equal to his washed self, it's just not reality, my friend.

Hes what he's been the majority of his career. You are calling it washed not me. He's just who he is without Kyle.

Russ is a terrible comparison seeing as how his strength was always outside of structure. The Hawks structure didn't make him successful. He's just not the same guy from a physical standpoint so those outside of structure plays aren't happening. Not similar at all.

You are right about the spin cycle but wrong about who is perpetrating it.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Spin cycle is going pretty hard today. You say elite? I'm not saying elite, I'm simply saying he's washed now. He wasn't washed before all the surg, he was a better QB. Happens to all guys, they get old. Russ is an example, he's declined a lot, imo. Now where ppl get off track is they look at a washed guy like Russ and say he was always washed, what sense does that make? That's what you are doing, saying his past self is equal to his washed self, it's just not reality, my friend.

Hes what he's been the majority of his career. You are calling it washed not me. He's just who he is without Kyle.

Russ is a terrible comparison seeing as how his strength was always outside of structure. The Hawks structure didn't make him successful. He's just not the same guy from a physical standpoint so those outside of structure plays aren't happening. Not similar at all.

You are right about the spin cycle but wrong about who is perpetrating it.

It's easy to see, with someone on another squad, cuz all us have our biases on the SF guys, but it's the same phenomenon, guys get washed. We can both see it in DEN. Dude is cooked. Russ was always a guy who held the ball a lot and took a lot of contact, same with JG. Even in MNF, he had a play on a 3rd where he flew himself at the sticks and took a ton of contact. Coming off being in the hospital, for a back. Not too wise imo, but always how he played the game. Probably shortened his own career quite a bit, holding the ball, and not taking the sideline, over years of time.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It's easy to see, with someone on another squad, cuz all us have our biases on the SF guys, but it's the same phenomenon, guys get washed. We can both see it in DEN. Dude is cooked. Russ was always a guy who held the ball a lot and took a lot of contact, same with JG. Even in MNF, he had a play on a 3rd where he flew himself at the sticks and took a ton of contact. Coming off being in the hospital, for a back. Not too wise imo, but always how he played the game. Probably shortened his own career quite a bit, holding the ball, and not taking the sideline, over years of time.

I see no difference physically from Jimmy. As Smokey said he's making the same bonehead throws he always has. This is who he is.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
I'd disagree, he isn't the same player. Taken a ton of injuries, and that takes a toll. Raiders were fools to install a QB1, who we all knew was not gonna give 17 games or anything close. McD and the GM paid the price already.

What's different about him?

From 2017? An acl, a back, a foot, a shoulder, a thumb, a lot of hits cuz he doesn't unload the ball, etc
Injuries stack on guys, what's different about Dalvin Cook, why is he RB3 in NYJ? Guys get old, when they get a ton of injuries, they get old quick.

No, not from 2017. From 2022, when he had arguably his best individual season in his career.

I disagree in 2022 he had an Orlovsky, then another safety, he missed BA so bad BA has hopping mad, he had his share of clunkers,
now look at the respective teams, the 2017 team had trouble winning a game, the 2022 team imported CMC and was loaded

he was a lot better in 2017, and in 2019 imo, and 2021, than 2022. Just my opinion. the only way you may get fooled into thinking 2022 is his best year, is if you are making a stats argument, and not accounting for the difference in talent around

First off, I said arguably.

Secondly, you might be the only person who would say that 2022 would be Jimmy's 4th best season and three seasons were "a lot better" than 2022.

Third, you arent slick....we know you are only saying that 2022 was his 4th best season because it makes your "he isnt the same player anymore/he is washed up/he is old" argument slightly less ridiculous than everyone thinks it is.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
It's easy to see, with someone on another squad, cuz all us have our biases on the SF guys, but it's the same phenomenon, guys get washed. We can both see it in DEN. Dude is cooked. Russ was always a guy who held the ball a lot and took a lot of contact, same with JG. Even in MNF, he had a play on a 3rd where he flew himself at the sticks and took a ton of contact. Coming off being in the hospital, for a back. Not too wise imo, but always how he played the game. Probably shortened his own career quite a bit, holding the ball, and not taking the sideline, over years of time.

I see no difference physically from Jimmy. As Smokey said he's making the same bonehead throws he always has. This is who he is.

Sure, keep believing a bleep ton of injuries over the years are a complete non factor. I think we as fans sometimes don't fully appreciate the physicality of the NFL, try taking some of those hits for 1 game, see how you walk the next week. He's been getting hit for years. It adds up, particularly the ones where you have to go under the knife and get stuff corrected.

Let me ask you this, say you wanted to pick a guy to win you a game, and you had to choose between two guys, 2017 JG or 2023 JG, who are you taking? For me it's obvious, 2017 JG. Now with your logic of he's the same guy, I'll be interested to see which one you would choose..

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
First off, I said arguably.

Secondly, you might be the only person who would say that 2022 would be Jimmy's 4th best season and three seasons were "a lot better" than 2022.

Third, you arent slick....we know you are only saying that 2022 was his 4th best season because it makes your "he isnt the same player anymore/he is washed up/he is old" argument slightly less ridiculous than everyone thinks it is.

I was saying it all last season, this ain't a new take. 2022 was not his best work, imo. Consider the relative talent on the teams, vs 19 and 17.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Sure, keep believing a bleep ton of injuries over the years are a complete non factor. I think we as fans sometimes don't fully appreciate the physicality of the NFL, try taking some of those hits for 1 game, see how you walk the next week. He's been getting hit for years. It adds up, particularly the ones where you have to go under the knife and get stuff corrected.

Let me ask you this, say you wanted to pick a guy to win you a game, and you had to choose between two guys, 2017 JG or 2023 JG, who are you taking? For me it's obvious, 2017 JG. Now with your logic of he's the same guy, I'll be interested to see which one you would choose..

You act as if 2017 was a season. It was 5 games. He never showed that level of escapability again. Was that just because of the knee? Perhaps. But other guys have torn acls and retained mobility.

Basically Jimmy flashed great play in about 8 career games and the rest of the time was a caretaker with questionable decision making and an inability to read defenses. To me thats who he is. To pretend some small sample of his career as indicative of what he could be is a huge stretch. Brock has already played more high level games in his career than Jimmy has in his imo.

Just like with Darnold you want to use the small samples as if they say more about the player than the balance of their career.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
Sure, keep believing a bleep ton of injuries over the years are a complete non factor. I think we as fans sometimes don't fully appreciate the physicality of the NFL, try taking some of those hits for 1 game, see how you walk the next week. He's been getting hit for years. It adds up, particularly the ones where you have to go under the knife and get stuff corrected.

Let me ask you this, say you wanted to pick a guy to win you a game, and you had to choose between two guys, 2017 JG or 2023 JG, who are you taking? For me it's obvious, 2017 JG. Now with your logic of he's the same guy, I'll be interested to see which one you would choose..

You act as if 2017 was a season. It was 5 games. He never showed that level of escapability again. Was that just because of the knee? Perhaps. But other guys have torn acls and retained mobility.

Basically Jimmy flashed great play in about 8 career games and the rest of the time was a caretaker with questionable decision making and an inability to read defenses. To me thats who he is. To pretend some small sample of his career as indicative of what he could be is a huge stretch. Brock has already played more high level games in his career than Jimmy has in his imo.

Just like with Darnold you want to use the small samples as if they say more about the player than the balance of their career.

no, no.. let's get back to the question, who are you taking?

the bold is good stuff I agree

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
You act as if 2017 was a season. It was 5 games. He never showed that level of escapability again. Was that just because of the knee? Perhaps. But other guys have torn acls and retained mobility.

Basically Jimmy flashed great play in about 8 career games and the rest of the time was a caretaker with questionable decision making and an inability to read defenses. To me thats who he is. To pretend some small sample of his career as indicative of what he could be is a huge stretch. Brock has already played more high level games in his career than Jimmy has in his imo.

Just like with Darnold you want to use the small samples as if they say more about the player than the balance of their career.

He was putting the ball in harms way in '17 too. Questionable decisions… off balance throws. An increase in mobility is not stopping him from throwing a ball directly to a safety in scoring position, like he did last week. His interception rate was right in line with the rest of his time here, and that was with some good luck.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
no, no.. let's get back to the question, who are you taking?

the bold is good stuff I agree

If you can guarantee me the guy who was running around picking up 3rd downs wasn't a small sample mirage then I'd take the 2017 guy. But since he was probably was just a mirage and is really the guy we saw it doesnt matter. Same as Darnold.

Players tell you who they are over the long haul.

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:
He was putting the ball in harms way in '17 too. Questionable decisions… off balance throws. An increase in mobility is not stopping him from throwing a ball directly to a safety in scoring position, like he did last week. His interception rate was right in line with the rest of his time here, and that was with some good luck.

Oh I would agree. In terms of reading defenses or decision making he was always bad. A gunslinger without the tools.

But at least he had some escapability to make plays on 3rd down. Once that was gone it was primary read is open or play is lost. Kyle's genius made it last as long as it could.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
no, no.. let's get back to the question, who are you taking?

the bold is good stuff I agree

If you can guarantee me the guy who was running around picking up 3rd downs wasn't a small sample mirage then I'd take the 2017 guy. But since he was probably was just a mirage and is really the guy we saw it doesnt matter. Same as Darnold.

Players tell you who they are over the long haul.

everyone would take the 2017 guy, he was a younger, healthier, better QB

OH BROTHER... THIS GUY STINKS!!

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
no, no.. let's get back to the question, who are you taking?

the bold is good stuff I agree

If you can guarantee me the guy who was running around picking up 3rd downs wasn't a small sample mirage then I'd take the 2017 guy. But since he was probably was just a mirage and is really the guy we saw it doesnt matter. Same as Darnold.

Players tell you who they are over the long haul.

everyone would take the 2017 guy, he was a younger, healthier, better QB

And much cheaper, and with that, came less expectations.