Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by picklejuice:
Someone in that tweet thread mentioned how Aaron Donald was in Jimmy G's sideview...so maybe it wasn't an option

He wasn't though. Not when he's the 1st read…that's a play where Jimmy needs to have some anticipation and the ball's gotta be out before he breaks on the route

I don't think it's the first read. This is actually earily similar to a play Kyle designed on good morning football when it was Pats/Rams in the SB to defeat bellichick in man-cov.

He drew up a whip route to the right and a crossing route to go over the top aiming to hit the crosser. The crossing action on kittles route works as a natural rub play and Ramsey will be held in the flat. Hard to cover Kittle across the field like that. I love the design of the play and it's the kind of catch you see the top guys making each week, it was literally 3 inches from being a touchdown.

Looking through the playbook, the only play that is close is redline flat. The whip route is set to 10 yards deep though, but that could refer to 10 yards from the back line or the depth is based upon where in the red zone they are.
The progression is for a shallow cross as #1, then a crossing route instructed to run "back end line" as #2. The whirl route isn't even designated in the progression.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Looking through the playbook, the only play that is close is redline flat. The whip route is set to 10 yards deep though, but that could refer to 10 yards from the back line or the depth is based upon where in the red zone they are.
The progression is for a shallow cross as #1, then a crossing route instructed to run "back end line" as #2. The whirl route isn't even designated in the progression.

Just looking at the play as a fan. IMO it does look like he looks at BA first in his progression. BA sure acts like he was the read ,if you see his reaction. If he's just a dummy route meant to hold Ramsey you'd think BA wouldn't react like that (since he knows the actual play).

I'm not an X's and O's guy like you so I'll differ. Quick question, the playbook you're looking though. Is it not constantly changing and evolving?

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Kittle should of got his second foot down. Jimmy should have had 2 TD passes in the game. We won so all is well.

Maybe so but players lose track of where they are in the heat of battle. Jimmy did when he stepped out of the end zone and that was a lot worse mistake.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Kittle should of got his second foot down. Jimmy should have had 2 TD passes in the game. We won so all is well.

Maybe so but players lose track of where they are in the heat of battle. Jimmy did when he stepped out of the end zone and that was a lot worse mistake.

Never said it wasn't.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Looking through the playbook, the only play that is close is redline flat. The whip route is set to 10 yards deep though, but that could refer to 10 yards from the back line or the depth is based upon where in the red zone they are.
The progression is for a shallow cross as #1, then a crossing route instructed to run "back end line" as #2. The whirl route isn't even designated in the progression.

Just looking at the play as a fan. IMO it does look like he looks at BA first in his progression. BA sure acts like he was the read ,if you see his reaction. If he's just a dummy route meant to hold Ramsey you'd think BA wouldn't react like that (since he knows the actual play).

I'm not an X's and O's guy like you so I'll differ. Quick question, the playbook you're looking though. Is it not constantly changing and evolving?

They do change so I don't have the most up to date but a lot of the concepts don't change.

Mike McDaniel even talked about that during TC. Said he wasn't as protective over playbooks as they used to be. He said, "you can go online now and buy our playbook so it doesn't really matter. If you want it, you can have it."

I got a copy of the playbook he's referring to from someone who hooked me up.
I think Jimmy is just looking off to open up Kittles route.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Looking through the playbook, the only play that is close is redline flat. The whip route is set to 10 yards deep though, but that could refer to 10 yards from the back line or the depth is based upon where in the red zone they are.
The progression is for a shallow cross as #1, then a crossing route instructed to run "back end line" as #2. The whirl route isn't even designated in the progression.

Just looking at the play as a fan. IMO it does look like he looks at BA first in his progression. BA sure acts like he was the read ,if you see his reaction. If he's just a dummy route meant to hold Ramsey you'd think BA wouldn't react like that (since he knows the actual play).

I'm not an X's and O's guy like you so I'll differ. Quick question, the playbook you're looking though. Is it not constantly changing and evolving?

They do change so I don't have the most up to date but a lot of the concepts don't change.

Mike McDaniel even talked about that during TC. Said he wasn't as protective over playbooks as they used to be. He said, "you can go online now and buy our playbook so it doesn't really matter. If you want it, you can have it."

I got a copy of the playbook he's referring to from someone who hooked me up.
I think Jimmy is just looking off to open up Kittles route.

I think Aiyuk was a possibility. I don't think Aiyuk was a decoy route based off his body language. He wanted that ball.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Looking through the playbook, the only play that is close is redline flat. The whip route is set to 10 yards deep though, but that could refer to 10 yards from the back line or the depth is based upon where in the red zone they are.
The progression is for a shallow cross as #1, then a crossing route instructed to run "back end line" as #2. The whirl route isn't even designated in the progression.

Just looking at the play as a fan. IMO it does look like he looks at BA first in his progression. BA sure acts like he was the read ,if you see his reaction. If he's just a dummy route meant to hold Ramsey you'd think BA wouldn't react like that (since he knows the actual play).

I'm not an X's and O's guy like you so I'll differ. Quick question, the playbook you're looking though. Is it not constantly changing and evolving?

They do change so I don't have the most up to date but a lot of the concepts don't change.

Mike McDaniel even talked about that during TC. Said he wasn't as protective over playbooks as they used to be. He said, "you can go online now and buy our playbook so it doesn't really matter. If you want it, you can have it."

I got a copy of the playbook he's referring to from someone who hooked me up.
I think Jimmy is just looking off to open up Kittles route.

I think Aiyuk was a possibility. I don't think Aiyuk was a decoy route based off his body language. He wanted that ball.

Aiyuk always wants the ball based off his body language. I've seen him have .1 yards of separation in a deep route and look irritated, lol.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
This is the most likely explanation as he does it often.

However, I disagree to an extent that the throw to Kittle was more dangerous (although I've only looked at the play twice: once live and once after), because what you're supposed to do is put it where no one can get it: high and away from the defenders. The angle from the midpoint line is small, making it an easier throw to make. By being easier, it is less dangerous. A throw into the flat takes a while to get there, and one runs the risk of it being undercut—unless the QB is throwing it more like a fade and putting it where no one can get it but the WR. But it's easier to under throw the longer throw to the flat than the back of the end zone throw, and that ultimately is why I say it's less dangerous.

It's a dangerous throw in the RZ, it was also a hell of a throw.

This throw from 49ers Jimmy Garoppolo was legit elite 🔥 pic.twitter.com/mM0sgiKmlR

— Brad (@Graham_SFN) October 4, 2022

ramsey wasn't undercutting s**t on that route. He sold out on the slant perfectly.

You know that because Ramsey took his eyes of Aiyuk and went in as Aiyuk breaked. But if you're the QB, and you look over the middle first, you see a gaping hole in the end zone behind those linebackers. Aiyuk is running a double move route; Kittle is an in. You see the huge hole, you don't decide to check on the next route in the progression to see if it's more wide open.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by BangBang49er:

Originally posted by Strwy2Hevn:

Originally posted by TTown9ers:
82% of his passing yards last night were YAC. So lol.

Perfect game plan for Jimmy

Yup as Kyle said and I'm a paraphrasing but air yards are highly inefficient compared to short efficient high percentage throws. This is why he drafts YAC people.

Fans obsession with fantasy football stats is unbelievably naive.

It's not a fantasy stat. It's a REALITY stat. It tells you exactly how much the QB contributed to the distance the pass travels. Moreover, last year the correlation between win/loss percentage and completed air yards was STRONGER (0.3226) than the correlation between win/loss and interceptions per game (0.04399 Pearson Correlation Coefficient).





So if completed air yards is "fantasy football," then what are interceptions per game, which correlated 7 times weaker than completed air yards did last year? (And if you doubt this math, recall that three of the QBs in the AFC and NFC championship were bottom ten in interception percentage, while all three were top ten in CAY/PA. Stafford was 7th in INT%, Burrows was 9th, and Jimmy was 10th.Stafford was 1st in CAY/PA, Burrows was 2nd, and Jimmy was 7th. )

(It should be noted, of course, that both had weak correlations with win/loss percentage compared to 1D% and touchdowns).

Correlation isn't causation.
At the very least, if you're going to use correlation then use a much larger sample size. The NFL is notoriously high variance.

No kidding. That's why I said correlation and not causation.

Also let me add that 1D% correlated more than either one of those with win/loss percentage last year, and Jimmy just happened to be around 6 in the NFL at that. If I pointed that out, I suspect you would not be pointing out that I only examined the stats of the starting QBs of last year to find this out (and neither am I the first person ever to recognize this). This is what stanism does.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Looking through the playbook, the only play that is close is redline flat. The whip route is set to 10 yards deep though, but that could refer to 10 yards from the back line or the depth is based upon where in the red zone they are.
The progression is for a shallow cross as #1, then a crossing route instructed to run "back end line" as #2. The whirl route isn't even designated in the progression.

Just looking at the play as a fan. IMO it does look like he looks at BA first in his progression. BA sure acts like he was the read ,if you see his reaction. If he's just a dummy route meant to hold Ramsey you'd think BA wouldn't react like that (since he knows the actual play).

I'm not an X's and O's guy like you so I'll differ. Quick question, the playbook you're looking though. Is it not constantly changing and evolving?

They do change so I don't have the most up to date but a lot of the concepts don't change.

Mike McDaniel even talked about that during TC. Said he wasn't as protective over playbooks as they used to be. He said, "you can go online now and buy our playbook so it doesn't really matter. If you want it, you can have it."

I got a copy of the playbook he's referring to from someone who hooked me up.
I think Jimmy is just looking off to open up Kittles route.

He does that very frequently.

That said, on the touchdown that wasn't, he appeared to have seen the huge amount of space in the end zone behind the linebackers, and if you see that, you don't wonder if there's an easier throw with the next guy in the progression (assuming Aiyuk was 2; but maybe not). You see you have lots and lots of room, and the sideline behind your guy as a safety net, and you throw it.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by picklejuice:
Someone in that tweet thread mentioned how Aaron Donald was in Jimmy G's sideview...so maybe it wasn't an option

He wasn't though. Not when he's the 1st read…that's a play where Jimmy needs to have some anticipation and the ball's gotta be out before he breaks on the route

I don't think it's the first read. This is actually earily similar to a play Kyle designed on good morning football when it was Pats/Rams in the SB to defeat bellichick in man-cov.

He drew up a whip route to the right and a crossing route to go over the top aiming to hit the crosser. The crossing action on kittles route works as a natural rub play and Ramsey will be held in the flat. Hard to cover Kittle across the field like that. I love the design of the play and it's the kind of catch you see the top guys making each week, it was literally 3 inches from being a touchdown.

Looking through the playbook, the only play that is close is redline flat. The whip route is set to 10 yards deep though, but that could refer to 10 yards from the back line or the depth is based upon where in the red zone they are.
The progression is for a shallow cross as #1, then a crossing route instructed to run "back end line" as #2. The whirl route isn't even designated in the progression.

In the same amount of time the first "fake" move is created, someone else is making their "real" move, so I would argue whip routes are usually not number 1.

Not exactly the same but similar, from 2016 Falcons:

Hopefully someone will review the good reads and accuracy this game. Good Jimmy had some tight window throws between 2 and 3 defenders this game. Bad Jimmy needs to be reviewed too but it would be nice to have some balance in here as something to build off of.

Also, anyone notice any design changes this game other than a clear focus on shotgun = 2.23s TT to our YAC monsters (e.g. quick passing game to help the OL concerns/Donald)?

With that being a primary focus I wouldn't expect too many outside the hash and deeper sideline shots.

How did the running game plan combat the 1.5g? Much more passes on first down? What successes did we have? Not have?

I did find one play where the whip was 1, but that was with the crosser coming from the same side/direction.

Also this:


Again, not exact, but similar (obviously related to coverage, of course, but the point is you can see how the QBs eyes might navigate across; in this instance it seems to be the 2 is the rb if you start on the left).

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The point I'm making is that a route that requires two cuts is not usually going to be the first read.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:
Also this:


Again, not exact, but similar (obviously related to coverage, of course, but the point is you can see how the QBs eyes might navigate across; in this instance it seems to be the 2 is the rb if you start on the left).

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The point I'm making is that a route that requires two cuts is not usually going to be the first read.

Check out the red zone passes for red line flat. Should be in there