Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I had missed some of the shotgun discussion so when I saw it this morning I was a little surprised because I was watching the Jags film and had seen a number of under center play action plays.

Yeah, that might have been the most all year actually.

Just watched some Rams game replays, gotta say Jimmy is much more decisive and accurate from the 'gun.

Night and day. He's also not getting beat to hell so he's starting to look more confident and decisive and even his mechanics are looking a tad better too (calming down). But you can still see that residual rushed throw from time to time (QB PTSD).

Look particularly at the shotgun-spread sets where we have 3 or 4 WR's with 2 or 1 RB's instantly leaking out as a receiving options too. That's where he looks the most comfortable to me.

Agree, i was also going to mention that his mechanics are much better under the 'gun formation too.

On a couple of 3rd and longs, and 2nd and longs, he was hitting receivers 15+ to 25+ yards downfiled *outside* the hashmarks!

When Mitchell comes back, his speed will make defenses play honest on first downs, and make those shotgun throws even easier for Jimmy.

I want the entire offense to continue to improve. I'm hoping Juan and Sermon step it up these next couple of weeks. I'd love to see if Juan can run the ball like Deebo and Sermon run pass routes like Juszczyk.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
So Jimmy now understands defenses? Lol this place lol

Haha. I thought the same. I know where Golden is going with that but yeah, it's not like he just suddenly understood defenses better starting with the Bears game. That'd be way down the list on the turnaround, IMHO.

It's not like he didn't begin the year playing well. He improved this aspect in the off-season. He said it himself, by the way, so we know it's true.

What also changed in that game obviously is play-calling, but Jimmy has also been hitting that first read a lot and very quickly. He's playing more decisively.

It's hard to quantify. All these things matter. But he's definitely reading defenses better this season too (and he has said as much).

I certainly didn't mean to minimize that point. It's true overall.

What has been most surprising is his TT going down from the shotgun tona league fastest at 2.3s. To your point, you aren't getting rid of the ball that quickly unless you're reading defenses well pre and post snap, your guys are getting open instantly, and you're decisive.

One other reason the play-calling could have made a difference is just that his strength is the quick game. Not so much the formation (tight or spread or whatever), but just that "catch and throw" is conducive to maximizing what he's best at. But as has been pointed out before, you can't consistently run an offense centered on that unless you have guys that can get open in tight space. We haven't had that at every position, really, until this year. Shanahan said himself that he uses play-action because it gets guys open better. If you got Deebo, Kittle, and Aiyuk, you don't need that extra help as much.

100%. That's a great take on how the rest of the personnel plays into that equation as well. After all, Kyle brought in (or relied on them) those types of insta-seperators for this very reason: Trent Taylor (2017), Dante Pettis, Deebo Samuel, Brandon Aiyuk, George Kittle, etc.

It also means every player CAN be a receiving option now too vs. the 4Q of the Superbowl where Kyle had to leave Kittle in to pass protect because of how their DL was taking over.

This is much more fun!

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I had missed some of the shotgun discussion so when I saw it this morning I was a little surprised because I was watching the Jags film and had seen a number of under center play action plays.

Yeah, that might have been the most all year actually.

Just watched some Rams game replays, gotta say Jimmy is much more decisive and accurate from the 'gun.

Night and day. He's also not getting beat to hell so he's starting to look more confident and decisive and even his mechanics are looking a tad better too (calming down). But you can still see that residual rushed throw from time to time (QB PTSD).

Look particularly at the shotgun-spread sets where we have 3 or 4 WR's with 2 or 1 RB's instantly leaking out as a receiving options too. That's where he looks the most comfortable to me.

Agree, i was also going to mention that his mechanics are much better under the 'gun formation too.

On a couple of 3rd and longs, and 2nd and longs, he was hitting receivers 15+ to 25+ yards downfiled *outside* the hashmarks!

When Mitchell comes back, his speed will make defenses play honest on first downs, and make those shotgun throws even easier for Jimmy.

I want the entire offense to continue to improve. I'm hoping Juan and Sermon step it up these next couple of weeks. I'd love to see if Juan can run the ball like Deebo and Sermon run pass routes like Juszczyk.

Definitely.

And Mitchell and Wilson are nice receiving threats too. Sermon is legit in that area too. Of course Juice can catch. The more options the better!

Hasty is another guy and you could see Kyle instantly use him as a receiver until he got hurt again.

For the 'Jimmy only throws short passes' crowd:

37% of Mahome's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
44% of Mahome's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

31% of Herbert's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
36% of Herbert's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

36% of Rodgers' attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
42% of Rodgers' completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

22% of Garoppolo's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
25% of Garoppolo's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I had missed some of the shotgun discussion so when I saw it this morning I was a little surprised because I was watching the Jags film and had seen a number of under center play action plays.

Yeah, that might have been the most all year actually.

Just watched some Rams game replays, gotta say Jimmy is much more decisive and accurate from the 'gun.

Night and day. He's also not getting beat to hell so he's starting to look more confident and decisive and even his mechanics are looking a tad better too (calming down). But you can still see that residual rushed throw from time to time (QB PTSD).

Look particularly at the shotgun-spread sets where we have 3 or 4 WR's with 2 or 1 RB's instantly leaking out as a receiving options too. That's where he looks the most comfortable to me.

Agree, i was also going to mention that his mechanics are much better under the 'gun formation too.

On a couple of 3rd and longs, and 2nd and longs, he was hitting receivers 15+ to 25+ yards downfiled *outside* the hashmarks!

When Mitchell comes back, his speed will make defenses play honest on first downs, and make those shotgun throws even easier for Jimmy.

I want the entire offense to continue to improve. I'm hoping Juan and Sermon step it up these next couple of weeks. I'd love to see if Juan can run the ball like Deebo and Sermon run pass routes like Juszczyk.

Definitely.

And Mitchell and Wilson are nice receiving threats too. Sermon is legit in that area too. Of course Juice can catch. The more options the better!

Hasty is another guy and you could see Kyle instantly use him as a receiver until he got hurt again.

yup, Injuries have been slowing the offensive development too. I have got to say the OLine hasn't missed a beat since McGlinchy got hurt.

I'm thinking McGlinchy's time with the 49ers may be at hand (the injury) and now he has an injury history, if the OLine - specially the right side - keeps playing well, I think (if I was shanahan) try to trade McGlinchy, assuming he can even rehab his injury, and get some draft capital back to plow into the OLine in next years draft. What say you?

For me Garoppolo is a QB that is somewhere between 10th and 25th best in the league. When he's playing well and in a system he feels comfortable he's pushing to be in the Top 10 QBs in the league. When he's off form or the system isn't suiting his skillset then he looks more like he's somewhere between 20-25th best QB in the league.

In 2019 and in recent weeks we've seen the the best version of Jimmy. One where you arguably have a QB who is pushing to be amongst the best 10 in the league. In that scenario, you can make the playoffs and challenge for NFC Championships and the Super Bowl if the supporting cast is of high quality. Injuries permitting I still think the 49ers have the roster to go deep in the playoffs as long as Garoppolo continues at his current level. The issue is that when Jimmy is the 20-25th best QB version of himself over a period of time, you can't even challenge for a play-off spot.

The consistency of performance and ability to operate at the upper end of his ability is the key for Garoppolo and the 49ers. It'll be key to success this season and it'll probably be key to draft capital when the 49ers decide to move on to Lance at starting QB. The last few weeks have been promising but that needs to extend from 2 week into 5, 6, 7 ,8 weeks if this team wants to get to a play off spot and a likely 10-7 record.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
For the 'Jimmy only throws short passes' crowd:

37% of Mahome's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
44% of Mahome's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

31% of Herbert's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
36% of Herbert's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

36% of Rodgers' attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
42% of Rodgers' completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

22% of Garoppolo's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
25% of Garoppolo's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

Man, I tell you. That Mahomes and Rodgers are nothing but check-down Alexes. Haha

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I had missed some of the shotgun discussion so when I saw it this morning I was a little surprised because I was watching the Jags film and had seen a number of under center play action plays.

Yeah, that might have been the most all year actually.

Just watched some Rams game replays, gotta say Jimmy is much more decisive and accurate from the 'gun.

Night and day. He's also not getting beat to hell so he's starting to look more confident and decisive and even his mechanics are looking a tad better too (calming down). But you can still see that residual rushed throw from time to time (QB PTSD).

Look particularly at the shotgun-spread sets where we have 3 or 4 WR's with 2 or 1 RB's instantly leaking out as a receiving options too. That's where he looks the most comfortable to me.

Agree, i was also going to mention that his mechanics are much better under the 'gun formation too.

On a couple of 3rd and longs, and 2nd and longs, he was hitting receivers 15+ to 25+ yards downfiled *outside* the hashmarks!

When Mitchell comes back, his speed will make defenses play honest on first downs, and make those shotgun throws even easier for Jimmy.

I want the entire offense to continue to improve. I'm hoping Juan and Sermon step it up these next couple of weeks. I'd love to see if Juan can run the ball like Deebo and Sermon run pass routes like Juszczyk.

Definitely.

And Mitchell and Wilson are nice receiving threats too. Sermon is legit in that area too. Of course Juice can catch. The more options the better!

Hasty is another guy and you could see Kyle instantly use him as a receiver until he got hurt again.

yup, Injuries have been slowing the offensive development too. I have got to say the OLine hasn't missed a beat since McGlinchy got hurt.

I'm thinking McGlinchy's time with the 49ers may be at hand (the injury) and now he has an injury history, if the OLine - specially the right side - keeps playing well, I think (if I was shanahan) try to trade McGlinchy, assuming he can even rehab his injury, and get some draft capital back to plow into the OLine in next years draft. What say you?

That's a great thing! Not that I have anything against MM but it's showing KYLE that he's not as crucial as he once thought and hence, why he committed to his $10M 5th year option (which I was not thrilled with esp. in a pandemic year where the cap dropped).

But for those scoring at home on the Kyle Evolution Scale:

• Drafted Banks (a G ) in the 2nd round
• Drafted Banks and Moore; two players where their primary skill set is pass protection (not run blocking)
• Temporarily benched Moore after giving up a sack
• Moved almost exclusively away from play action to shotgun and more available receiver options

These are massive shifts in Kyle's DNA and the man should be getting huge praise for this IMHO. I could add even more with Trey Lance alone. The man is evolving and in a positive direction with the league.

Originally posted by Jookie:
For me Garoppolo is a QB that is somewhere between 10th and 25th best in the league. When he's playing well and in a system he feels comfortable he's pushing to be in the Top 10 QBs in the league. When he's off form or the system isn't suiting his skillset then he looks more like he's somewhere between 20-25th best QB in the league.

In 2019 and in recent weeks we've seen the the best version of Jimmy. One where you arguably have a QB who is pushing to be amongst the best 10 in the league. In that scenario, you can make the playoffs and challenge for NFC Championships and the Super Bowl if the supporting cast is of high quality. Injuries permitting I still think the 49ers have the roster to go deep in the playoffs as long as Garoppolo continues at his current level. The issue is that when Jimmy is the 20-25th best QB version of himself over a period of time, you can't even challenge for a play-off spot.

The consistency of performance and ability to operate at the upper end of his ability is the key for Garoppolo and the 49ers. It'll be key to success this season and it'll probably be key to draft capital when the 49ers decide to move on to Lance at starting QB. The last few weeks have been promising but that needs to extend from 2 week into 5, 6, 7 ,8 weeks if this team wants to get to a play off spot and a likely 10-7 record.

I dont think you'd get get many arguments with those rankings and thoughts. What's interesting is that the guys we normally see as top 10, many are not playing in that range themselves this year. Football is weird that way. In fact, Jimmy is at the top of many of the analytics (more proof of this).

You're spot on with the consistency point. That is definitely the key going forward.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I had missed some of the shotgun discussion so when I saw it this morning I was a little surprised because I was watching the Jags film and had seen a number of under center play action plays.

Yeah, that might have been the most all year actually.

Just watched some Rams game replays, gotta say Jimmy is much more decisive and accurate from the 'gun.

Night and day. He's also not getting beat to hell so he's starting to look more confident and decisive and even his mechanics are looking a tad better too (calming down). But you can still see that residual rushed throw from time to time (QB PTSD).

Look particularly at the shotgun-spread sets where we have 3 or 4 WR's with 2 or 1 RB's instantly leaking out as a receiving options too. That's where he looks the most comfortable to me.

Agree, i was also going to mention that his mechanics are much better under the 'gun formation too.

On a couple of 3rd and longs, and 2nd and longs, he was hitting receivers 15+ to 25+ yards downfiled *outside* the hashmarks!

When Mitchell comes back, his speed will make defenses play honest on first downs, and make those shotgun throws even easier for Jimmy.

I want the entire offense to continue to improve. I'm hoping Juan and Sermon step it up these next couple of weeks. I'd love to see if Juan can run the ball like Deebo and Sermon run pass routes like Juszczyk.

Definitely.

And Mitchell and Wilson are nice receiving threats too. Sermon is legit in that area too. Of course Juice can catch. The more options the better!

Hasty is another guy and you could see Kyle instantly use him as a receiver until he got hurt again.

yup, Injuries have been slowing the offensive development too. I have got to say the OLine hasn't missed a beat since McGlinchy got hurt.

I'm thinking McGlinchy's time with the 49ers may be at hand (the injury) and now he has an injury history, if the OLine - specially the right side - keeps playing well, I think (if I was shanahan) try to trade McGlinchy, assuming he can even rehab his injury, and get some draft capital back to plow into the OLine in next years draft. What say you?

That's a great thing! Not that I have anything against MM but it's showing KYLE that he's not as crucial as he once thought and hence, why he committed to his $10M 5th year option (which I was not thrilled with esp. in a pandemic year where the cap dropped).

But for those scoring at home on the Kyle Evolution Scale:

• Drafted Banks (a G ) in the 2nd round
• Drafted Banks and Moore; two players where their primary skill set is pass protection (not run blocking)
• Temporarily benched Moore after giving up a sack
• Moved almost exclusively away from play action to shotgun and more available receiver options

These are massive shifts in Kyle's DNA and the man should be getting huge praise for this IMHO. I could add even more with Trey Lance alone. The man is evolving and in a positive direction with the league.

Totally agree, and you can contrast that with Cheat Carroll up in Seadderall Land, where their offense is still the sandlot chuck and duck offense.

AB81 said MM's dead cap is a bit too much to swallow if ShanaLynch cuts him, so I was thinking a trade. I'd be happy getting a low round compensatory pick for MM. I did a bit of research on torn quadriceps because I didn't know a thing about them, but it's pretty critical to the knee. Considering he was having problems pass blocking last year, a torn quad isn't going to help him getting better at pass protections. I'm wondering if maybe they can package Jimmy *and* Mike for a possible trade. The two, together might be more valuable than apart.

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
For the 'Jimmy only throws short passes' crowd:

37% of Mahome's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
44% of Mahome's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

31% of Herbert's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
36% of Herbert's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

36% of Rodgers' attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
42% of Rodgers' completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

22% of Garoppolo's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
25% of Garoppolo's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

Thank you.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
For the 'Jimmy only throws short passes' crowd:

37% of Mahome's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
44% of Mahome's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

31% of Herbert's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
36% of Herbert's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

36% of Rodgers' attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
42% of Rodgers' completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

22% of Garoppolo's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
25% of Garoppolo's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

Thank you.

That's pretty much the same all over the league. What you aren't showing is how many throws over 15 yards. Very few for Jimmy. I'm guessing most of the rest of Jimmy's throws are 10-12 yards based on charts I've seen. The other guys you show have way more throes and completions beyond 15 yards and even out to 40 yards.

I guess I've gotten to the point where I would rather have Jimmy throw 10 yards or less and let the receivers do the work instead of trying to make throws that he isn't good at. Players can only play within their limits. He can't run the option well since he's no threat to run so they don't do it. Same with the deep passes.

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by boast:
most of the HMJHC are backtracking. it's pretty funny. a few months back, 5_G_R tried to bet me Jimmy would be sucking bad around this time of the season. he should be forced to change his screen name to 6_Geese_a_Laying since his previous takes are all laying eggs at this point of the season.

The only thing I recall saying long term to you is that he won't be on this team in the future and he'll be on some other team still being Jimmy, perhaps improving the aforementioned things related to experience and intelligence, and mechanics (improving accuracy), but unlikely improving things related to natural talent (such as intuitive peripheral vision — e.g., instinctual spatial awareness).

If anyone's changing their name, it should be you changing yours to dunce, because you don't seem capable of grasping the subtleties of a grade school level argument.
Lol disclaimer: just kidding.
…

Let me clarify what I mean here:

You don't seem to understand what I've been saying to you for basically the entire year. And not just this topic. You CLEARLY whiffed on what my argument was on how the differing business models between news companies (related to the degree of homogeneity of their audience) affect their content — something so obviously true it is almost a tautology. And yet it went right over your head.

The same thing is clearly happening here, as you keep repeating an utterly BUTCHERED, Nathan-from-South Park version of what I said that's so embarrassingly childlike in its faulty oversimplification that it makes me wonder if a lack of nutrition as a child stunted your development.

My only question is, do you realize you are looking this sad, or are you suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect?


Ah ha ha ha see I'm lol just kidding lol haha ahah ahaha — see? Laughs, no personal attack here boss.

lol look at how mad you are because your asinine takes about Jimmy have been exposed. brain plasticity bro. brain plasticity!!!

Originally posted by a49erfan77:
For the 'Jimmy only throws short passes' crowd:

37% of Mahome's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
44% of Mahome's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

31% of Herbert's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
36% of Herbert's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

36% of Rodgers' attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
42% of Rodgers' completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

22% of Garoppolo's attempts this season have been 5 yards or less.
25% of Garoppolo's completions this season have been 5 yards or less.

Bro you aren't winning this argument just by arbitrarily choosing a particular number under 15 yards. One need only post his passing charts to debunk your argument. Most will look like this, and as you can see here, only 6 of his 19 attempts were at or below 5 yards... and yet, only ONE was greater than 12 yards:



The main reason why this thread has almost 7000 posts is because guys like you make claims that slap the face of reality. He throws short. He throws short a lot. He likes throwing short. He's good at throwing short. That is why he throws short.

Also hysterical is that the normal names will tell you how awesome you are for arbitrarily choosing 5 yards as your point of inflection, oblivious to the fact that the modern NFL game incorporates lots of WR screens and RPOs, which will make pretty much every offense have lots of passes in that range. Change that number to 15 yards and reevaluate. 10, 12, 20, etc.

Also what is your source? I want to play with it and see what happens when different arbitrary numbers are used.

Originally posted by boast:

Originally posted by 5_Golden_Rings:

Originally posted by boast:
most of the HMJHC are backtracking. it's pretty funny. a few months back, 5_G_R tried to bet me Jimmy would be sucking bad around this time of the season. he should be forced to change his screen name to 6_Geese_a_Laying since his previous takes are all laying eggs at this point of the season.

The only thing I recall saying long term to you is that he won't be on this team in the future and he'll be on some other team still being Jimmy, perhaps improving the aforementioned things related to experience and intelligence, and mechanics (improving accuracy), but unlikely improving things related to natural talent (such as intuitive peripheral vision — e.g., instinctual spatial awareness).

If anyone's changing their name, it should be you changing yours to dunce, because you don't seem capable of grasping the subtleties of a grade school level argument.
Lol disclaimer: just kidding.
…

Let me clarify what I mean here:

You don't seem to understand what I've been saying to you for basically the entire year. And not just this topic. You CLEARLY whiffed on what my argument was on how the differing business models between news companies (related to the degree of homogeneity of their audience) affect their content — something so obviously true it is almost a tautology. And yet it went right over your head.

The same thing is clearly happening here, as you keep repeating an utterly BUTCHERED, Nathan-from-South Park version of what I said that's so embarrassingly childlike in its faulty oversimplification that it makes me wonder if a lack of nutrition as a child stunted your development.

My only question is, do you realize you are looking this sad, or are you suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect?


Ah ha ha ha see I'm lol just kidding lol haha ahah ahaha — see? Laughs, no personal attack here boss.

lol look at how mad you are because your asinine takes about Jimmy have been exposed. brain plasticity bro. brain plasticity!!!

Bro, you are only making yourself look like a fool over and over again (not that I'm saying you are a fool; only that it appears you enjoy making it appear so). Anyone on a 2nd grade reading level can see that I never argued that Jimmy could not get better — in fact I argued quite the opposite. I argued he could get better at several aspects of quarterbacking, and only one would be particularly difficult. He has shown no signs of improving the one area I said would be difficult to improve.

Are you a masochist? Honestly, I must know. It sure seems that way, as you keep deliberately making it appear as if you belong in South Park episode "Crippled Summer." Not that I'm saying you belong in that episode. Only that you seem to be enjoying making it appear so.