Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

BFF's

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
If Jimmy plays out of his mind in 2021 and wins MVP, a SB, and/or the SB MVP, the Niners trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset while paying big and hoping that his injury issues are over. Trey will not need more than one year to be ready. He's come further in resolving his mechanical issues in several months than Jimmy has progressed in resolving his flaws in 4 years, and Shanahan and Lynch didn't give 2 firsts and a third to trade up to three so they could sit Lance through his rookie contract.

Anything the team gets for Jimmy above a day 2 pick is found money at this point. He's an average to above average starter in the league (with injury concerns), and it's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan. If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense.

A lot of assumptions in this post that slant towards the negative in what you've seen in Garoppolo. "...trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset." If Garoppolo performs well this year like I believe he will (not MVP level but improving on his 2019 production, which I think he can), maybe some of those "holes in his skillset" will be refined and improved upon. Good chance they will. Just in watching closely his talent level going back to his NE days, he still can improve overall as a QB. Injuries have really derailed this for him IMO.

"It's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan"...yes, as it would be the case with any QB, but Shanahan also has benefitted in having a talented QB like Garoppolo executing the game plan and forcing teams to play it honest vs. the Niners' passing AND running attack. Complimentary football, and the Niners have been extremely tough to beat when Garoppolo plays a complete game healthy.

"If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense." Really? Sounds a lot like trying to minimize what Garoppolo has done as an overall NFL QB - here and with NE. If Goff struggles this year in Detroit, it won't be correlated to Garoppolo at all if Garoppolo plays well, especially if he improves on 2019. Did you watch Garoppolo play in NE, which is a different scheme? He did pretty well when called upon - I was impressed by the talent I saw in running that O.

Posts like these are incredibly bewildering to me, a diehard fan of the Niners for 44 years. I also want what's best for the team, and yes, I root for the franchise over the individual. I acknowledge that they've just drafted a QB in Lance that seems to have all the traits & talent you want in a QB and it seems just a matter of time for him to get his chance (yet let it play out, let him take a real snap first). Yet I also acknowledge Garoppolo's talents and weaknesses, but I don't try to minimize what Garoppolo has done to date here and what he can do going forward in being better. I've seen too many times in my lifetime of watching talented NFL QBs, on the Niners and throughout the league, to know that such guys can improve a little later in their careers (due to sitting behind a very good QB or sitting due to injury, etc.).

We'll see what happens this year...wouldn't be surprised at all if Garoppolo surprises some of the fans in this forum.

I don't think I slant to the negative at all. I'm an optimist, and I like Jimmy a lot as a 49er. I don't think he is without positive attributes, but I also don't choose to ignore his limitations. Looking at his heat pattern, he does not do a lot to force defenses to defend the whole field. He has a disproportionately high number of targets behind the line of scrimmage and inside of 10 yards, between the hashes. He's limiting Shanahan's scheme. He has completed some impressive passes with pressure in his face, and he does a great job executing what he does well, but he does not do everything that the scheme asks. That's not hating, that's putting down the homer goggles for a second and looking at a popular player with some objectivity. Shanahan's offense is not designed to ignore the sidelines and deep zones; it just looks that way with Jimmy under center.

Yes, Shanahan has benefitted from having a decent starting QB with a great release executing his offense, especially compared to the average to below average backups that ran the show in Jimmy's absence. There are probably 15 or more starters in the league who could find similar or greater success running the same offense for Kyle. That doesn't make Jimmy a bad QB, it just doesn't make him a top QB. I think Jimmy benefits from Kyle more than Kyle benefits from Jimmy. I believe Shanahan wants to attack all depths and widths of the field, while eliminating the WTF throws and pocket spasms that lead to turnovers. We'll see more evidence to that end in Jimmy's next stop.

I don't know how you can conclude that Goff's performance this year will have no effect on Garoppolo's trade value. Teams and evaluators make similar connections all the time, especially when there is already an existing narrative that the Shanahan scheme makes life MUCH easier for QBs by getting receivers wide open in many key instances throughout games. If a guy who took his team to the SB in the scheme, but was not seen as the MAIN reason the team went to the SB (sound familiar?) struggles in a new scheme, it stands to reason that another QB with a similar backstory might encounter the same struggles. Narratives matter in assessing value. Yes, Garoppolo looked pretty good in the 2 games he played in NE. I thought he was more impressive in his 5 game run in 2017 for the 49ers, personally, as that performance did not benefit from years learning the scheme before playing in it, as well as NE's dominant pass blocking OL.

I'm sorry that you find my post to be bewildering, and I understand that you have wrapped some emotion up into your perception of (and defense of) Jimmy. That's perfectly natural, and it's a common element of fandom. We see it every preseason with bubble players we anoint as future stars. I think the proof lies in the perceived value around the league. Teams and fanbases that have no emotional attachment to Jimmy don't value him anywhere near where some 49ers fans do. The suggestion that he could garner a 1st round pick as a trade was laughed at mercilessly on the boards of other teams, even on Patriots fan boards, where many fans preferred him to Cam and wanted him back. I believe that any team offering a 2022 first or better would have Jimmy already.

I agree with you that Garoppolo could exceed expectations this season. I think having Lance breathing down his neck has introduced a sense of urgency that will push him to perform better. If that is the case, I won't b able to ignore the nagging question, "why didn't he have that sense of urgency all along?" We'll see how it goes. I like Jimmy, and I'll cheer for him as long as he's a 49er, and maybe even after. He's not the future of the team, but he's been a good teammate and a good leader who was frequently resourceful enough to overcome his own limitations.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Straight from Lynch's mouth debunks the first article. Bill did not offer TB in 2017 : https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2793064-john-lynch-confirms-tom-brady-trade-offer-says-bill-belichick-laughed-at-me

all good, Brady a b***h tho for not making it clear

Yeah I think it's a b***h move to even say that s**t to media even if you said it candidly. Have some respect for fellow players for f**k sake.

Originally posted by Youngone:
Yeah I think it's a b***h move to even say that s**t to media even if you said it candidly. Have some respect for fellow players for f**k sake.

Or,....be as honest as you possibly can as a current player. Great, great competitors are not usually nice guys under the cover. It just doesn't usually add up.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Jimmy signed through 2022.
Hypothetical: He played his ass off 2021. MVP or SB or both. Do we still trade Jimmy or let him played out 2022...?

I would be torn with the decision...

If Jimmy plays out of his mind in 2021 and wins MVP, a SB, and/or the SB MVP, the Niners trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset while paying big and hoping that his injury issues are over. Trey will not need more than one year to be ready. He's come further in resolving his mechanical issues in several months than Jimmy has progressed in resolving his flaws in 4 years, and Shanahan and Lynch didn't give 2 firsts and a third to trade up to three so they could sit Lance through his rookie contract.

Anything the team gets for Jimmy above a day 2 pick is found money at this point. He's an average to above average starter in the league (with injury concerns), and it's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan. If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense.

Agree with your first paragraph Wrath, but i still think the best thing that happened to Mahomes was to land under Andy Reid and watch with clipboard and listen on earphones to every play, He easily could have played, so much talent. But Reid did the right thing and then next yr , SB and he wins it . I see Trey in the same light. All that talent, but he just started playing in high school and then played ONE yr in college in a division 1 D or whatever league, at NDSU. So the opposition was like playing in a JV league, altho It can be tough at times. And then he played ONE game last yr.

i just don't see the need to put him in and see what he can do THiS yr when we have a great qb in JG , as long as he stays uninjured. If he does, then he starts all yr. Will Trey come in on some specialty plays? Sure. We all expect that. But as for starting, the worst thing kyle could do would be to play him with so incredibly little experience against BIGGER , FASTER, MEANER, STRONGER, NFL defenses.

Let him watch a JJ Watts, a Chandler, a Donald, or pick your D poison. Much rather see Trey WATCHING that than seeing up close and personal.

Let him learn by example, and get a feel for how kyle calls a game and let him guess what kyle calls next, and why….and so on. No question it behooves us for JG to have an all pro exceptional yr. if that happens, we win it all. But the rush to see Trey? Hey we're gonna see him lots of yrs. Why start him when he really has played only 4 yrs high school and 1 yr college. That i don't get. Let him learn off of Jimmy. Mahomes was a way better athlete than Alex. But that first yr, Andy Reid took some heat, but did it right. I hope we do too.

Here's where we disagree, I guess. I don't think Garoppolo is a great QB. I think he's better than anyone we've seen play for the 49ers since Shanahan showed up, and that inflates his value to 49ers fans. I think he's WAY better than Hoyer (a bottom-tier starter who is better off as a decent backup), Beatherd, and Mullens, but he's not as good as Alex Smith, who Reid felt comfortable sitting Mahomes behind. I also think Mahomes (who I LOVED) had a LOT more to learn from a scheme and footwork perspective than Trey did, and Reid still had to tweak his scheme a lot to make it fit Mahomes (which is , of course, the right thing to do to nurture that much raw talent). I think every QB is different, every team and HC/OC is different, and some situations suggest sitting for longer than others. If the 49ers run game and defense are healthy and performing well, there exists a perfect scenario in which to groom a young QB without asking too much of him to early, while finding him scenarios to succeed and win, all while getting accustomed to the speed and complexity of NFL defenses (which would, by necessity, become more predictable and less nuanced to to the run threat Lance presents).

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
If Jimmy plays out of his mind in 2021 and wins MVP, a SB, and/or the SB MVP, the Niners trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset while paying big and hoping that his injury issues are over. Trey will not need more than one year to be ready. He's come further in resolving his mechanical issues in several months than Jimmy has progressed in resolving his flaws in 4 years, and Shanahan and Lynch didn't give 2 firsts and a third to trade up to three so they could sit Lance through his rookie contract.

Anything the team gets for Jimmy above a day 2 pick is found money at this point. He's an average to above average starter in the league (with injury concerns), and it's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan. If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense.

A lot of assumptions in this post that slant towards the negative in what you've seen in Garoppolo. "...trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset." If Garoppolo performs well this year like I believe he will (not MVP level but improving on his 2019 production, which I think he can), maybe some of those "holes in his skillset" will be refined and improved upon. Good chance they will. Just in watching closely his talent level going back to his NE days, he still can improve overall as a QB. Injuries have really derailed this for him IMO.

"It's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan"...yes, as it would be the case with any QB, but Shanahan also has benefitted in having a talented QB like Garoppolo executing the game plan and forcing teams to play it honest vs. the Niners' passing AND running attack. Complimentary football, and the Niners have been extremely tough to beat when Garoppolo plays a complete game healthy.

"If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense." Really? Sounds a lot like trying to minimize what Garoppolo has done as an overall NFL QB - here and with NE. If Goff struggles this year in Detroit, it won't be correlated to Garoppolo at all if Garoppolo plays well, especially if he improves on 2019. Did you watch Garoppolo play in NE, which is a different scheme? He did pretty well when called upon - I was impressed by the talent I saw in running that O.

Posts like these are incredibly bewildering to me, a diehard fan of the Niners for 44 years. I also want what's best for the team, and yes, I root for the franchise over the individual. I acknowledge that they've just drafted a QB in Lance that seems to have all the traits & talent you want in a QB and it seems just a matter of time for him to get his chance (yet let it play out, let him take a real snap first). Yet I also acknowledge Garoppolo's talents and weaknesses, but I don't try to minimize what Garoppolo has done to date here and what he can do going forward in being better. I've seen too many times in my lifetime of watching talented NFL QBs, on the Niners and throughout the league, to know that such guys can improve a little later in their careers (due to sitting behind a very good QB or sitting due to injury, etc.).

We'll see what happens this year...wouldn't be surprised at all if Garoppolo surprises some of the fans in this forum.

I don't think I slant to the negative at all. I'm an optimist, and I like Jimmy a lot as a 49er. I don't think he is without positive attributes, but I also don't choose to ignore his limitations. Looking at his heat pattern, he does not do a lot to force defenses to defend the whole field. He has a disproportionately high number of targets behind the line of scrimmage and inside of 10 yards, between the hashes. He's limiting Shanahan's scheme. He has completed some impressive passes with pressure in his face, and he does a great job executing what he does well, but he does not do everything that the scheme asks. That's not hating, that's putting down the homer goggles for a second and looking at a popular player with some objectivity. Shanahan's offense is not designed to ignore the sidelines and deep zones; it just looks that way with Jimmy under center.

Yes, Shanahan has benefitted from having a decent starting QB with a great release executing his offense, especially compared to the average to below average backups that ran the show in Jimmy's absence. There are probably 15 or more starters in the league who could find similar or greater success running the same offense for Kyle. That doesn't make Jimmy a bad QB, it just doesn't make him a top QB. I think Jimmy benefits from Kyle more than Kyle benefits from Jimmy. I believe Shanahan wants to attack all depths and widths of the field, while eliminating the WTF throws and pocket spasms that lead to turnovers. We'll see more evidence to that end in Jimmy's next stop.

I don't know how you can conclude that Goff's performance this year will have no effect on Garoppolo's trade value. Teams and evaluators make similar connections all the time, especially when there is already an existing narrative that the Shanahan scheme makes life MUCH easier for QBs by getting receivers wide open in many key instances throughout games. If a guy who took his team to the SB in the scheme, but was not seen as the MAIN reason the team went to the SB (sound familiar?) struggles in a new scheme, it stands to reason that another QB with a similar backstory might encounter the same struggles. Narratives matter in assessing value. Yes, Garoppolo looked pretty good in the 2 games he played in NE. I thought he was more impressive in his 5 game run in 2017 for the 49ers, personally, as that performance did not benefit from years learning the scheme before playing in it, as well as NE's dominant pass blocking OL.

I'm sorry that you find my post to be bewildering, and I understand that you have wrapped some emotion up into your perception of (and defense of) Jimmy. That's perfectly natural, and it's a common element of fandom. We see it every preseason with bubble players we anoint as future stars. I think the proof lies in the perceived value around the league. Teams and fanbases that have no emotional attachment to Jimmy don't value him anywhere near where some 49ers fans do. The suggestion that he could garner a 1st round pick as a trade was laughed at mercilessly on the boards of other teams, even on Patriots fan boards, where many fans preferred him to Cam and wanted him back. I believe that any team offering a 2022 first or better would have Jimmy already.

I agree with you that Garoppolo could exceed expectations this season. I think having Lance breathing down his neck has introduced a sense of urgency that will push him to perform better. If that is the case, I won't b able to ignore the nagging question, "why didn't he have that sense of urgency all along?" We'll see how it goes. I like Jimmy, and I'll cheer for him as long as he's a 49er, and maybe even after. He's not the future of the team, but he's been a good teammate and a good leader who was frequently resourceful enough to overcome his own limitations.

I tend to agree with Shanny and Lynch who have both praised Jimmy at every chance but both have said that he just cannot be trusted to play an entire season. I have no reason to believe these guys are lying like people here claim. Healthy Jimmy is too 10 in nearly every single important statistical category. This team is Super Bowl caliber with a healthy Jimmy and a 4-6 win team without as we've seen the years without him. Jimmy is oft injured, Niners couldn't go into a other season unprepared, both Lynch and Shanny have said this bluntly, so they wanted a QB. Why not get the guy they want instead of a possibility at 12? Thus the trade up. Again Shanny and Lynch a words, not mine.

Again if we're going off of our front offices words this is exactly what's happening. Using tabloids like Brady saying things and the dummies here who used a still frame photo to hate on Jimmy for being fat is nothing more than haterism and gossip.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Jimmy signed through 2022.
Hypothetical: He played his ass off 2021. MVP or SB or both. Do we still trade Jimmy or let him played out 2022...?

I would be torn with the decision...

If we win a Superbowl, I don't care if we go 0-16 the next season. I've waited too long.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by Youngone:
Yeah I think it's a b***h move to even say that s**t to media even if you said it candidly. Have some respect for fellow players for f**k sake.

Or,....be as honest as you possibly can as a current player. Great, great competitors are not usually nice guys under the cover. It just doesn't usually add up.

Brady being a 🐐 and 🐐's being d******ds (like Jordan) is about the only thing that makes sense.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Lynch isn't calling Kraft for trades.. it's well documented that Lynch called for jimmy, was denied and so he asked about Brady which Bill didn't take seriously.

This call didn't happen on live air. The documenting of it is left up to the parties that choose to discuss it. Again, I think you weigh Lynch's words too heavily, and it seems you're finding an excuse to skip over comments that clearly was a "New England" issue, having nothing to do with Lynch or his state phone calls.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
not sure why you want to believe some beat writer than our own GM but it's all good. It's not going to change anything for the 49ers this year regarding our QBs

Obviously, I think it's the reverse. I think you're moreso believing what you want to believe. I take all of these comments at face value, and I have an open mind,....but where I sense smoke, I'm guessing there's fire.

I think Tom clearly took a shot at our organization (not Jimmy). You don't. It's a wash and Tom loves this stuff.

How can you not take Lynch's words heavier than just some dude who gets paid to capture audiences ?

Could be us but we had 28mill in dead cap for Jimmy G, no way were we close to being interested till the end

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
How can you not take Lynch's words heavier than just some dude who gets paid to capture audiences ?

Could be us but we had 28mill in dead cap for Jimmy G, no way were we close to being interested till the end

I never take Lynch's words heavy due to 1) lack of true authority and 2) his history of comments while respecting #1. I see him quoted all the time and I just don't see him as someone worth listening to. It's really not his role and it's kinda crazy to see his quotes made more of than they're really worth here constantly.

The dude capturing audiences,....I could post countless other reports of the same stuff but what is the point? I believe something was brewing there in N.E. during Brady's last several years. I believe he is a vindictive SOB. And I believe alot of great athletes who'd otherwise have reason to retire keep themselves going with grievances. All of these beliefs have nothing to do with anything any reporter has had to say, btw.

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
If Jimmy plays out of his mind in 2021 and wins MVP, a SB, and/or the SB MVP, the Niners trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset while paying big and hoping that his injury issues are over. Trey will not need more than one year to be ready. He's come further in resolving his mechanical issues in several months than Jimmy has progressed in resolving his flaws in 4 years, and Shanahan and Lynch didn't give 2 firsts and a third to trade up to three so they could sit Lance through his rookie contract.

Anything the team gets for Jimmy above a day 2 pick is found money at this point. He's an average to above average starter in the league (with injury concerns), and it's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan. If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense.

A lot of assumptions in this post that slant towards the negative in what you've seen in Garoppolo. "...trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset." If Garoppolo performs well this year like I believe he will (not MVP level but improving on his 2019 production, which I think he can), maybe some of those "holes in his skillset" will be refined and improved upon. Good chance they will. Just in watching closely his talent level going back to his NE days, he still can improve overall as a QB. Injuries have really derailed this for him IMO.

"It's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan"...yes, as it would be the case with any QB, but Shanahan also has benefitted in having a talented QB like Garoppolo executing the game plan and forcing teams to play it honest vs. the Niners' passing AND running attack. Complimentary football, and the Niners have been extremely tough to beat when Garoppolo plays a complete game healthy.

"If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense." Really? Sounds a lot like trying to minimize what Garoppolo has done as an overall NFL QB - here and with NE. If Goff struggles this year in Detroit, it won't be correlated to Garoppolo at all if Garoppolo plays well, especially if he improves on 2019. Did you watch Garoppolo play in NE, which is a different scheme? He did pretty well when called upon - I was impressed by the talent I saw in running that O.

Posts like these are incredibly bewildering to me, a diehard fan of the Niners for 44 years. I also want what's best for the team, and yes, I root for the franchise over the individual. I acknowledge that they've just drafted a QB in Lance that seems to have all the traits & talent you want in a QB and it seems just a matter of time for him to get his chance (yet let it play out, let him take a real snap first). Yet I also acknowledge Garoppolo's talents and weaknesses, but I don't try to minimize what Garoppolo has done to date here and what he can do going forward in being better. I've seen too many times in my lifetime of watching talented NFL QBs, on the Niners and throughout the league, to know that such guys can improve a little later in their careers (due to sitting behind a very good QB or sitting due to injury, etc.).

We'll see what happens this year...wouldn't be surprised at all if Garoppolo surprises some of the fans in this forum.

I don't think I slant to the negative at all. I'm an optimist, and I like Jimmy a lot as a 49er. I don't think he is without positive attributes, but I also don't choose to ignore his limitations. Looking at his heat pattern, he does not do a lot to force defenses to defend the whole field. He has a disproportionately high number of targets behind the line of scrimmage and inside of 10 yards, between the hashes. He's limiting Shanahan's scheme. He has completed some impressive passes with pressure in his face, and he does a great job executing what he does well, but he does not do everything that the scheme asks. That's not hating, that's putting down the homer goggles for a second and looking at a popular player with some objectivity. Shanahan's offense is not designed to ignore the sidelines and deep zones; it just looks that way with Jimmy under center.

Yes, Shanahan has benefitted from having a decent starting QB with a great release executing his offense, especially compared to the average to below average backups that ran the show in Jimmy's absence. There are probably 15 or more starters in the league who could find similar or greater success running the same offense for Kyle. That doesn't make Jimmy a bad QB, it just doesn't make him a top QB. I think Jimmy benefits from Kyle more than Kyle benefits from Jimmy. I believe Shanahan wants to attack all depths and widths of the field, while eliminating the WTF throws and pocket spasms that lead to turnovers. We'll see more evidence to that end in Jimmy's next stop.

I don't know how you can conclude that Goff's performance this year will have no effect on Garoppolo's trade value. Teams and evaluators make similar connections all the time, especially when there is already an existing narrative that the Shanahan scheme makes life MUCH easier for QBs by getting receivers wide open in many key instances throughout games. If a guy who took his team to the SB in the scheme, but was not seen as the MAIN reason the team went to the SB (sound familiar?) struggles in a new scheme, it stands to reason that another QB with a similar backstory might encounter the same struggles. Narratives matter in assessing value. Yes, Garoppolo looked pretty good in the 2 games he played in NE. I thought he was more impressive in his 5 game run in 2017 for the 49ers, personally, as that performance did not benefit from years learning the scheme before playing in it, as well as NE's dominant pass blocking OL.

I'm sorry that you find my post to be bewildering, and I understand that you have wrapped some emotion up into your perception of (and defense of) Jimmy. That's perfectly natural, and it's a common element of fandom. We see it every preseason with bubble players we anoint as future stars. I think the proof lies in the perceived value around the league. Teams and fanbases that have no emotional attachment to Jimmy don't value him anywhere near where some 49ers fans do. The suggestion that he could garner a 1st round pick as a trade was laughed at mercilessly on the boards of other teams, even on Patriots fan boards, where many fans preferred him to Cam and wanted him back. I believe that any team offering a 2022 first or better would have Jimmy already.

I agree with you that Garoppolo could exceed expectations this season. I think having Lance breathing down his neck has introduced a sense of urgency that will push him to perform better. If that is the case, I won't b able to ignore the nagging question, "why didn't he have that sense of urgency all along?" We'll see how it goes. I like Jimmy, and I'll cheer for him as long as he's a 49er, and maybe even after. He's not the future of the team, but he's been a good teammate and a good leader who was frequently resourceful enough to overcome his own limitations.

Appreciate the detailed reply. I'll keep my follow up somewhat short as I've already said enough and we're just going to agree to disagree on some areas.

I've read some of your previous posts where you bring up Garoppolo...they come across to me as minimizing him as an NFL QB and what he's done in a not-so-big sample size (again, injuries). They also make it sound like you've only watched him so closely throughout his NFL career (NE & SF). I've watched every one of his snaps, and I've watched his games multiple times as the Niners' starting QB (I put football way above any other sport...I re-watch Niners/NFL games in the offseason over MLB and NBA games). I know what I see, and I have as high of standards as anyone for the QB position given what I've seen in watching this team and other team's QBs since the '70s (and also playing the game myself). I've seen him, when healthy, make all of the throws and make them well - but of course can improve on areas such as the deep ball. When he's been hurt recently, we've seen more shorter, quick-design passes...and the "behind the line of scrimmage" passes you referenced. But the short passing game is also a big part of this O as it quickly puts the ball in talented playmakers' hands (like this team definitely has) and allows them to rack up the YAC. Garoppolo has shown he has executed this part of the O very well (again, with room for improvement such as ball placement in hitting them in stride).

Also, putting limitations on him as if he can't improve because he's been in the league so long, that "he is who he is". He definitely can still improve and I've seen it happen before to guys further up there in age (most recently, a guy like Tannehill). Garoppolo still only has started 35 games & attempted only 977 total pass attempts - 977! Not a lot at all, and as he continues to rack up more attempts, more "looks" at defensive alignments/game situations, more processing things, I definitely feel like he can & will improve.

Lastly, what was always most important to me as an athlete no matter what sport I was playing was what others I played against (and with) thought of me as a player. Accolades given by your peers/opponents matter a lot to me, and after the 2019 season when Garoppolo performed like a very good NFL QB (not great but I'd definitely say at least Top 12), he was voted the #43 best player in the entire league by his peers. #43. Only seven QBs were voted ahead of him. The other players in the league didn't have any incentive or other reason to vote him that high other than what they thought about his abilities throughout that season. It may not be a perfect voting system - nothing would be and there would always be some controversy - but it's still done by your peers.

I've said too much here. I'm not disagreeing with everything you've said here and in the past - to me, the areas where Garoppolo need to improve are as clear as day. Let's see if he's up to the challenge this year and does get better. From what I've seen in his abilities and in him as a competitor, I wouldn't put it past him and as I said, I can see him surprising people. Rooting for him...rooting for Lance...rooting for every guy on this team...rooting for the Niners.

Only way jimmy stays on the team after this year is if he wins the Super Bowl, a Super Bowl loss is not going to cut it for him

Originally posted by PRIMETIME21:
Only way jimmy stays on the team after this year is if he wins the Super Bowl, a Super Bowl loss is not going to cut it for him

I see no way he's on the team next yr....they need that cash regardless.

Originally posted by OneNDone:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
If Jimmy plays out of his mind in 2021 and wins MVP, a SB, and/or the SB MVP, the Niners trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset while paying big and hoping that his injury issues are over. Trey will not need more than one year to be ready. He's come further in resolving his mechanical issues in several months than Jimmy has progressed in resolving his flaws in 4 years, and Shanahan and Lynch didn't give 2 firsts and a third to trade up to three so they could sit Lance through his rookie contract.

Anything the team gets for Jimmy above a day 2 pick is found money at this point. He's an average to above average starter in the league (with injury concerns), and it's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan. If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense.

A lot of assumptions in this post that slant towards the negative in what you've seen in Garoppolo. "...trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset." If Garoppolo performs well this year like I believe he will (not MVP level but improving on his 2019 production, which I think he can), maybe some of those "holes in his skillset" will be refined and improved upon. Good chance they will. Just in watching closely his talent level going back to his NE days, he still can improve overall as a QB. Injuries have really derailed this for him IMO.

"It's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan"...yes, as it would be the case with any QB, but Shanahan also has benefitted in having a talented QB like Garoppolo executing the game plan and forcing teams to play it honest vs. the Niners' passing AND running attack. Complimentary football, and the Niners have been extremely tough to beat when Garoppolo plays a complete game healthy.

"If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense." Really? Sounds a lot like trying to minimize what Garoppolo has done as an overall NFL QB - here and with NE. If Goff struggles this year in Detroit, it won't be correlated to Garoppolo at all if Garoppolo plays well, especially if he improves on 2019. Did you watch Garoppolo play in NE, which is a different scheme? He did pretty well when called upon - I was impressed by the talent I saw in running that O.

Posts like these are incredibly bewildering to me, a diehard fan of the Niners for 44 years. I also want what's best for the team, and yes, I root for the franchise over the individual. I acknowledge that they've just drafted a QB in Lance that seems to have all the traits & talent you want in a QB and it seems just a matter of time for him to get his chance (yet let it play out, let him take a real snap first). Yet I also acknowledge Garoppolo's talents and weaknesses, but I don't try to minimize what Garoppolo has done to date here and what he can do going forward in being better. I've seen too many times in my lifetime of watching talented NFL QBs, on the Niners and throughout the league, to know that such guys can improve a little later in their careers (due to sitting behind a very good QB or sitting due to injury, etc.).

We'll see what happens this year...wouldn't be surprised at all if Garoppolo surprises some of the fans in this forum.

I don't think I slant to the negative at all. I'm an optimist, and I like Jimmy a lot as a 49er. I don't think he is without positive attributes, but I also don't choose to ignore his limitations. Looking at his heat pattern, he does not do a lot to force defenses to defend the whole field. He has a disproportionately high number of targets behind the line of scrimmage and inside of 10 yards, between the hashes. He's limiting Shanahan's scheme. He has completed some impressive passes with pressure in his face, and he does a great job executing what he does well, but he does not do everything that the scheme asks. That's not hating, that's putting down the homer goggles for a second and looking at a popular player with some objectivity. Shanahan's offense is not designed to ignore the sidelines and deep zones; it just looks that way with Jimmy under center.

Yes, Shanahan has benefitted from having a decent starting QB with a great release executing his offense, especially compared to the average to below average backups that ran the show in Jimmy's absence. There are probably 15 or more starters in the league who could find similar or greater success running the same offense for Kyle. That doesn't make Jimmy a bad QB, it just doesn't make him a top QB. I think Jimmy benefits from Kyle more than Kyle benefits from Jimmy. I believe Shanahan wants to attack all depths and widths of the field, while eliminating the WTF throws and pocket spasms that lead to turnovers. We'll see more evidence to that end in Jimmy's next stop.

I don't know how you can conclude that Goff's performance this year will have no effect on Garoppolo's trade value. Teams and evaluators make similar connections all the time, especially when there is already an existing narrative that the Shanahan scheme makes life MUCH easier for QBs by getting receivers wide open in many key instances throughout games. If a guy who took his team to the SB in the scheme, but was not seen as the MAIN reason the team went to the SB (sound familiar?) struggles in a new scheme, it stands to reason that another QB with a similar backstory might encounter the same struggles. Narratives matter in assessing value. Yes, Garoppolo looked pretty good in the 2 games he played in NE. I thought he was more impressive in his 5 game run in 2017 for the 49ers, personally, as that performance did not benefit from years learning the scheme before playing in it, as well as NE's dominant pass blocking OL.

I'm sorry that you find my post to be bewildering, and I understand that you have wrapped some emotion up into your perception of (and defense of) Jimmy. That's perfectly natural, and it's a common element of fandom. We see it every preseason with bubble players we anoint as future stars. I think the proof lies in the perceived value around the league. Teams and fanbases that have no emotional attachment to Jimmy don't value him anywhere near where some 49ers fans do. The suggestion that he could garner a 1st round pick as a trade was laughed at mercilessly on the boards of other teams, even on Patriots fan boards, where many fans preferred him to Cam and wanted him back. I believe that any team offering a 2022 first or better would have Jimmy already.

I agree with you that Garoppolo could exceed expectations this season. I think having Lance breathing down his neck has introduced a sense of urgency that will push him to perform better. If that is the case, I won't b able to ignore the nagging question, "why didn't he have that sense of urgency all along?" We'll see how it goes. I like Jimmy, and I'll cheer for him as long as he's a 49er, and maybe even after. He's not the future of the team, but he's been a good teammate and a good leader who was frequently resourceful enough to overcome his own limitations.

I tend to agree with Shanny and Lynch who have both praised Jimmy at every chance but both have said that he just cannot be trusted to play an entire season. I have no reason to believe these guys are lying like people here claim. Healthy Jimmy is too 10 in nearly every single important statistical category. This team is Super Bowl caliber with a healthy Jimmy and a 4-6 win team without as we've seen the years without him. Jimmy is oft injured, Niners couldn't go into a other season unprepared, both Lynch and Shanny have said this bluntly, so they wanted a QB. Why not get the guy they want instead of a possibility at 12? Thus the trade up. Again Shanny and Lynch a words, not mine.

Again if we're going off of our front offices words this is exactly what's happening. Using tabloids like Brady saying things and the dummies here who used a still frame photo to hate on Jimmy for being fat is nothing more than haterism and gossip.

I don't think I've ever seen or heard Lynch and Shanahan say that they think Garoppolo is a top 10 QB, or that he should be an All-Pro. They've said they believe they can win a Super Bowl with him. I don't disagree with that. Several average QBs have won one Super Bowl on great teams.

Jimmy needs to make the throws that Kyle schemes open, and he gets credit for that, but Kyle schemes guys open better than most play callers do. Jimmy misses a lot of open guys and deep opportunities, too. I think those missed opportunities and head-scratching intercept-able passes are part of the reason they looked to upgrade at the position, too. Lynch and Shanahan rarely overtly lie, but they often leave out details that they don't want to share. They can state an easily acceptable reason for drafting a new QB, without needing to say anything overtly negative about a guy who has been a good teammate. Obviously, they aren't going to kill a guy in the press if they are trying to trade him down the road, or count on him in the short term.

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:

Originally posted by LottDMontanaO:

Originally posted by WRATHman44:
If Jimmy plays out of his mind in 2021 and wins MVP, a SB, and/or the SB MVP, the Niners trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset while paying big and hoping that his injury issues are over. Trey will not need more than one year to be ready. He's come further in resolving his mechanical issues in several months than Jimmy has progressed in resolving his flaws in 4 years, and Shanahan and Lynch didn't give 2 firsts and a third to trade up to three so they could sit Lance through his rookie contract.

Anything the team gets for Jimmy above a day 2 pick is found money at this point. He's an average to above average starter in the league (with injury concerns), and it's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan. If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense.

A lot of assumptions in this post that slant towards the negative in what you've seen in Garoppolo. "...trade him for a 1 or better and thank their stars that a desperate team is willing to ignore the hoes in his skillset." If Garoppolo performs well this year like I believe he will (not MVP level but improving on his 2019 production, which I think he can), maybe some of those "holes in his skillset" will be refined and improved upon. Good chance they will. Just in watching closely his talent level going back to his NE days, he still can improve overall as a QB. Injuries have really derailed this for him IMO.

"It's clear that he benefits from partnering with Shanahan"...yes, as it would be the case with any QB, but Shanahan also has benefitted in having a talented QB like Garoppolo executing the game plan and forcing teams to play it honest vs. the Niners' passing AND running attack. Complimentary football, and the Niners have been extremely tough to beat when Garoppolo plays a complete game healthy.

"If Goff struggles in Detroit this year, it will hurt Garoppolo's trade value, because a lot of credit for Goff's success will be attributed to the scheme, and it would be reasonable for teams to assume that Jimmy would experience a similar step down if he had to move out of the Shanahan offense." Really? Sounds a lot like trying to minimize what Garoppolo has done as an overall NFL QB - here and with NE. If Goff struggles this year in Detroit, it won't be correlated to Garoppolo at all if Garoppolo plays well, especially if he improves on 2019. Did you watch Garoppolo play in NE, which is a different scheme? He did pretty well when called upon - I was impressed by the talent I saw in running that O.

Posts like these are incredibly bewildering to me, a diehard fan of the Niners for 44 years. I also want what's best for the team, and yes, I root for the franchise over the individual. I acknowledge that they've just drafted a QB in Lance that seems to have all the traits & talent you want in a QB and it seems just a matter of time for him to get his chance (yet let it play out, let him take a real snap first). Yet I also acknowledge Garoppolo's talents and weaknesses, but I don't try to minimize what Garoppolo has done to date here and what he can do going forward in being better. I've seen too many times in my lifetime of watching talented NFL QBs, on the Niners and throughout the league, to know that such guys can improve a little later in their careers (due to sitting behind a very good QB or sitting due to injury, etc.).

We'll see what happens this year...wouldn't be surprised at all if Garoppolo surprises some of the fans in this forum.

I don't think I slant to the negative at all. I'm an optimist, and I like Jimmy a lot as a 49er. I don't think he is without positive attributes, but I also don't choose to ignore his limitations. Looking at his heat pattern, he does not do a lot to force defenses to defend the whole field. He has a disproportionately high number of targets behind the line of scrimmage and inside of 10 yards, between the hashes. He's limiting Shanahan's scheme. He has completed some impressive passes with pressure in his face, and he does a great job executing what he does well, but he does not do everything that the scheme asks. That's not hating, that's putting down the homer goggles for a second and looking at a popular player with some objectivity. Shanahan's offense is not designed to ignore the sidelines and deep zones; it just looks that way with Jimmy under center.

Yes, Shanahan has benefitted from having a decent starting QB with a great release executing his offense, especially compared to the average to below average backups that ran the show in Jimmy's absence. There are probably 15 or more starters in the league who could find similar or greater success running the same offense for Kyle. That doesn't make Jimmy a bad QB, it just doesn't make him a top QB. I think Jimmy benefits from Kyle more than Kyle benefits from Jimmy. I believe Shanahan wants to attack all depths and widths of the field, while eliminating the WTF throws and pocket spasms that lead to turnovers. We'll see more evidence to that end in Jimmy's next stop.

I don't know how you can conclude that Goff's performance this year will have no effect on Garoppolo's trade value. Teams and evaluators make similar connections all the time, especially when there is already an existing narrative that the Shanahan scheme makes life MUCH easier for QBs by getting receivers wide open in many key instances throughout games. If a guy who took his team to the SB in the scheme, but was not seen as the MAIN reason the team went to the SB (sound familiar?) struggles in a new scheme, it stands to reason that another QB with a similar backstory might encounter the same struggles. Narratives matter in assessing value. Yes, Garoppolo looked pretty good in the 2 games he played in NE. I thought he was more impressive in his 5 game run in 2017 for the 49ers, personally, as that performance did not benefit from years learning the scheme before playing in it, as well as NE's dominant pass blocking OL.

I'm sorry that you find my post to be bewildering, and I understand that you have wrapped some emotion up into your perception of (and defense of) Jimmy. That's perfectly natural, and it's a common element of fandom. We see it every preseason with bubble players we anoint as future stars. I think the proof lies in the perceived value around the league. Teams and fanbases that have no emotional attachment to Jimmy don't value him anywhere near where some 49ers fans do. The suggestion that he could garner a 1st round pick as a trade was laughed at mercilessly on the boards of other teams, even on Patriots fan boards, where many fans preferred him to Cam and wanted him back. I believe that any team offering a 2022 first or better would have Jimmy already.

I agree with you that Garoppolo could exceed expectations this season. I think having Lance breathing down his neck has introduced a sense of urgency that will push him to perform better. If that is the case, I won't b able to ignore the nagging question, "why didn't he have that sense of urgency all along?" We'll see how it goes. I like Jimmy, and I'll cheer for him as long as he's a 49er, and maybe even after. He's not the future of the team, but he's been a good teammate and a good leader who was frequently resourceful enough to overcome his own limitations.

Appreciate the detailed reply. I'll keep my follow up somewhat short as I've already said enough and we're just going to agree to disagree on some areas.

I've read some of your previous posts where you bring up Garoppolo...they come across to me as minimizing him as an NFL QB and what he's done in a not-so-big sample size (again, injuries). They also make it sound like you've only watched him so closely throughout his NFL career (NE & SF). I've watched every one of his snaps, and I've watched his games multiple times as the Niners' starting QB (I put football way above any other sport...I re-watch Niners/NFL games in the offseason over MLB and NBA games). I know what I see, and I have as high of standards as anyone for the QB position given what I've seen in watching this team and other team's QBs since the '70s (and also playing the game myself). I've seen him, when healthy, make all of the throws and make them well - but of course can improve on areas such as the deep ball. When he's been hurt recently, we've seen more shorter, quick-design passes...and the "behind the line of scrimmage" passes you referenced. But the short passing game is also a big part of this O as it quickly puts the ball in talented playmakers' hands (like this team definitely has) and allows them to rack up the YAC. Garoppolo has shown he has executed this part of the O very well (again, with room for improvement such as ball placement in hitting them in stride).

Also, putting limitations on him as if he can't improve because he's been in the league so long, that "he is who he is". He definitely can still improve and I've seen it happen before to guys further up there in age (most recently, a guy like Tannehill). Garoppolo still only has started 35 games & attempted only 977 total pass attempts - 977! Not a lot at all, and as he continues to rack up more attempts, more "looks" at defensive alignments/game situations, more processing things, I definitely feel like he can & will improve.

Lastly, what was always most important to me as an athlete no matter what sport I was playing was what others I played against (and with) thought of me as a player. Accolades given by your peers/opponents matter a lot to me, and after the 2019 season when Garoppolo performed like a very good NFL QB (not great but I'd definitely say at least Top 12), he was voted the #43 best player in the entire league by his peers. #43. Only seven QBs were voted ahead of him. The other players in the league didn't have any incentive or other reason to vote him that high other than what they thought about his abilities throughout that season. It may not be a perfect voting system - nothing would be and there would always be some controversy - but it's still done by your peers.

I've said too much here. I'm not disagreeing with everything you've said here and in the past - to me, the areas where Garoppolo need to improve are as clear as day. Let's see if he's up to the challenge this year and does get better. From what I've seen in his abilities and in him as a competitor, I wouldn't put it past him and as I said, I can see him surprising people. Rooting for him...rooting for Lance...rooting for every guy on this team...rooting for the Niners.

Fair enough. I'm not sure the NFL top 100 is everything they make it out to be. Every year, a ton of players express that they didn't vote on it and they don't know anyone who did.

I agree with your last thought. Go Niners