Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by elguapo:

Not the truth at all. That's your truth. Not most peoples. And certainly not our coaches truth.

It's been proven that just because we were destroying teams with the run, we kept running not because our quarterback was going to lose us the game and our coach didn't have "extreme trust". That's ridiculous. It seems like you're moving the goalposts with this argument. First our coach does trust our quarterback. Once that was proven now you're saying you need extreme trust. .

Also, I guess you missed the part where our coach was saying that Jimmy Garoppolo would've been the MVP because he started out 18 for 21 in the SB. That is ridiculously good. So that is the truth. He also trusted our quarterback to make those throws in the fourth quarter a few of which an all pro defensive tackle named Chris Jones swatted them down when Jimmy Garoppolo would've hit those throws to Kittle and the game would've been over. Our OL failed or you can say the play calling failed. Jimmy did miss that throw to Sanders I fault him for that. However Mahomes threw 2 ints and fumbled twice and missed some easy throws. That's 4 turnovers if you're counting, luckily the ball bounced their way.

So I don't know what the hell you were talking about. Let's just end this with Jimmy is a very good qb but he's not great yet. All he does is win with little help from our wrs or pass protection.

I haven't seen these games the past calendar year where it has been proven that Kyle trusts Jimmy deeply in critical situations,... and you have yet to point me to them and make your point any clearer.

The statement I made about trust is universal. The onus is on you to provide evidence of the truth, not I, since you are making the claim. Post the games that prove your point whenever you are ready.

Jimmy has to play better, no one can argue against that.

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

you should really hang out here more often , lol. nailed it.

I know right

Originally posted by random49er:

I haven't seen these games the past calendar year where it has been proven that Kyle trusts Jimmy deeply in critical situations,... and you have yet to point me to them and make your point any clearer.

The statement I made about trust is universal. The onus is on you to provide evidence of the truth, not I, since you are making the claim. Post the games that prove your point whenever you are ready.

The evidence has been in this thread time after time after time. From tops in the league in 3rd and 4th down passing without a good WR and pass pro to just winning. The onus is on you to provide otherwise, unless you're ok with disregarding the facts as well as disregarding what Shanny has said about Jimmy G. I suggest you find any interview of coach Shanahan saying how he trusts Jimmy G and his record when he's playing which supports this. Then again, we can all choose to believe your opinion vs the facts. Who are we to side with Shanny vs you

You were already wrong about him trusting Jimmy so you modified your argument to "extreme trust" and now "trusting him deeply" I can't stop laughing 😂

Maybe you can edit out his statements supporting what we are saying about Jimmy that aligns with our coach that way you will be correct. "Whenever you are ready"

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:
you should really hang out here more often , lol. nailed it.

I know right

Originally posted by random49er:
I haven't seen these games the past calendar year where it has been proven that Kyle trusts Jimmy deeply in critical situations,... and you have yet to point me to them and make your point any clearer.

The statement I made about trust is universal. The onus is on you to provide evidence of the truth, not I, since you are making the claim. Post the games that prove your point whenever you are ready.

The evidence has been in this thread time after time after time. From tops in the league in 3rd and 4th down passing without a good WR and pass pro to just winning. The onus is on you to provide otherwise, unless you're ok with disregarding the facts as well as disregarding what Shanny has said about Jimmy G. I suggest you find any interview of coach Shanahan saying how he trusts Jimmy G and his record when he's playing which supports this. Then again, we can all choose to believe your opinion vs the facts. Who are we to side with Shanny vs you

You were already wrong about him trusting Jimmy so you modified your argument to "extreme trust" and now "trusting him deeply" I can't stop laughing 😂

Maybe you can edit out his statements supporting what we are saying about Jimmy that aligns with our coach that way you will be correct. "Whenever you are ready"

Originally posted by 49ers81:
This is becoming just like all of the old Alex Smith threads, and just as pointless. Garoppolo is being asked to execute the offense that Shanahan designs for him and, generally speaking, he does that pretty well. It seems to me that his main issues are consistency and protecting the ball. He has demonstrated more than once, the ability to hang in there and sling it, it just seems as though he can't do it game in and game out like the really elite guys. If he can get a handle on that than he is more than good enough to get the job done. The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch. So far Jimmy has won a lot more than he has lost for us and to his credit, how he does it doesn't really seem to matter much to him. Whether he is asked to throw it 40 times or hand it off 40 times, as long as he gets the win he's good with it. To my mind all of these arguments boil down to the essential truth about a lot of 49er "fans" that Steve Young articulated so succinctly all of those years ago. In SF it's not enough that you win, you have to earn style points as well.

I agree Jimmy is running/executing the offense that Kyle designed for him (key word). My debate has been is the offense that Kyle envisioned and wanted all along? Or is he doing what any great coach does and form an offense around what his QB does well? IMO it's the latter of the two. Same thing with Alex Smith in KC vs Mahomes.

Kyle has always valued explosive plays. He had no problem dialing up vertical pass plays with Matt Ryan or Kirk/RG3. The backbone of his offense is and will always be the OZ and using a ton of play-action, regardless.

Bringing up air yards vs YAC isn't lazy at all...what's wrong with wanting a more complete passing game? What's wrong with having a QB that can be a legitimate vertical passing threat as well as an accurate QB on short/intermediate throws? I'm not speaking for anyone else, but it has nothing to do with "entertainment" for me regarding my QB being able to throw deeper than 20 yards lol. It has everything to do with allowing Kyle to USE his whole playbook. It has everything to do with being a complete passing team. Being able to throw it well vertically helps the team as a whole (including the running game). I have no idea why people don't want that or think they have to defend Jimmy over it

We know what Jimmy does well...short/intermediate passes and gets the ball out quickly. Not a shocker that 90% of his pass plays are exactly that. We know overall Jimmy has struggled throwing the ball vertically and we don't see many of those pass plays being attempted. I think it's fair to assume if Kyle had a QB that was better at that, we'd be dialing up those plays more, no?

At some point you're gonna need your QB to be able to make those vertical passes to win the game (SB/week 1 vs AZ come to mind). I've stated I don't care how we win as long as we get the W. I'm also not gonna make Jimmy out to be something he's not (or hasn't show he is yet).

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Sky I'm dying over here
Perfect. You gotta love how trust moved to extreme trust to deep trust. You'd think Jimmy G and Shanny are dating and he doesn't want Jimmy G to cheat on our coach by the way he's talking. I've never.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by SkyZer0:

Sky I'm dying over here
Perfect. You gotta love how trust moved to extreme trust to deep trust. You'd think Jimmy G and Shanny are dating and he doesn't want Jimmy G to cheat on our coach by the way he's talking. I've never.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by elguapo:

Not the truth at all. That's your truth. Not most peoples. And certainly not our coaches truth.

It's been proven that just because we were destroying teams with the run, we kept running not because our quarterback was going to lose us the game and our coach didn't have "extreme trust". That's ridiculous. It seems like you're moving the goalposts with this argument. First our coach does trust our quarterback. Once that was proven now you're saying you need extreme trust. .

Also, I guess you missed the part where our coach was saying that Jimmy Garoppolo would've been the MVP because he started out 18 for 21 in the SB. That is ridiculously good. So that is the truth. He also trusted our quarterback to make those throws in the fourth quarter a few of which an all pro defensive tackle named Chris Jones swatted them down when Jimmy Garoppolo would've hit those throws to Kittle and the game would've been over. Our OL failed or you can say the play calling failed. Jimmy did miss that throw to Sanders I fault him for that. However Mahomes threw 2 ints and fumbled twice and missed some easy throws. That's 4 turnovers if you're counting, luckily the ball bounced their way.

So I don't know what the hell you were talking about. Let's just end this with Jimmy is a very good qb but he's not great yet. All he does is win with little help from our wrs or pass protection.

I haven't seen these games the past calendar year where it has been proven that Kyle trusts Jimmy deeply in critical situations,... and you have yet to point me to them and make your point any clearer.

The statement I made about trust is universal. The onus is on you to provide evidence of the truth, not I, since you are making the claim. Post the games that prove your point whenever you are ready.

Did you watch the Super Bowl?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I agree Jimmy is running/executing the offense that Kyle designed for him (key word). My debate has been is the offense that Kyle envisioned and wanted all along? Or is he doing what any great coach does and form an offense around what his QB does well? IMO it's the latter of the two. Same thing with Alex Smith in KC vs Mahomes.

Kyle has always valued explosive plays. He had no problem dialing up vertical pass plays with Matt Ryan or Kirk/RG3. The backbone of his offense is and will always be the OZ and using a ton of play-action, regardless.

Bringing up air yards vs YAC isn't lazy at all...what's wrong with wanting a more complete passing game? What's wrong with having a QB that can be a legitimate vertical passing threat as well as an accurate QB on short/intermediate throws? I'm not speaking for anyone else, but it has nothing to do with "entertainment" for me regarding my QB being able to throw deeper than 20 yards lol. It has everything to do with allowing Kyle to USE his whole playbook. It has everything to do with being a complete passing team. Being able to throw it well vertically helps the team as a whole (including the running game). I have no idea why people don't want that or think they have to defend Jimmy over it

We know what Jimmy does well...short/intermediate passes and gets the ball out quickly. Not a shocker that 90% of his pass plays are exactly that. We know overall Jimmy has struggled throwing the ball vertically and we don't see many of those pass plays being attempted. I think it's fair to assume if Kyle had a QB that was better at that, we'd be dialing up those plays more, no?

At some point you're gonna need your QB to be able to make those vertical passes to win the game (SB/week 1 vs AZ come to mind). I've stated I don't care how we win as long as we get the W. I'm also not gonna make Jimmy out to be something he's not (or hasn't show he is yet).

+1. One can be neither a blind Jimmy homer nor a blind Jimmy hater. He's good at many things and elite in a few (especially release time, short to intermediate over the middle).

Just passable in a couple (pocket presence / movement) but pretty bad at deep ball passing and outside the numbers. Would love to see some growth there and agreed it's needed to win certain games based on the way they go (ie comeback, limited clock situations)

Originally posted by Patoranking:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I agree Jimmy is running/executing the offense that Kyle designed for him (key word). My debate has been is the offense that Kyle envisioned and wanted all along? Or is he doing what any great coach does and form an offense around what his QB does well? IMO it's the latter of the two. Same thing with Alex Smith in KC vs Mahomes.

Kyle has always valued explosive plays. He had no problem dialing up vertical pass plays with Matt Ryan or Kirk/RG3. The backbone of his offense is and will always be the OZ and using a ton of play-action, regardless.

Bringing up air yards vs YAC isn't lazy at all...what's wrong with wanting a more complete passing game? What's wrong with having a QB that can be a legitimate vertical passing threat as well as an accurate QB on short/intermediate throws? I'm not speaking for anyone else, but it has nothing to do with "entertainment" for me regarding my QB being able to throw deeper than 20 yards lol. It has everything to do with allowing Kyle to USE his whole playbook. It has everything to do with being a complete passing team. Being able to throw it well vertically helps the team as a whole (including the running game). I have no idea why people don't want that or think they have to defend Jimmy over it

We know what Jimmy does well...short/intermediate passes and gets the ball out quickly. Not a shocker that 90% of his pass plays are exactly that. We know overall Jimmy has struggled throwing the ball vertically and we don't see many of those pass plays being attempted. I think it's fair to assume if Kyle had a QB that was better at that, we'd be dialing up those plays more, no?

At some point you're gonna need your QB to be able to make those vertical passes to win the game (SB/week 1 vs AZ come to mind). I've stated I don't care how we win as long as we get the W. I'm also not gonna make Jimmy out to be something he's not (or hasn't show he is yet).

+1. One can be neither a blind Jimmy homer nor a blind Jimmy hater. He's good at many things and elite in a few (especially release time, short to intermediate over the middle).

Just passable in a couple (pocket presence / movement) but pretty bad at deep ball passing and outside the numbers. Would love to see some growth there and agreed it's needed to win certain games based on the way they go (ie comeback, limited clock situations)

Originally posted by elguapo:
Sky I'm dying over here
Perfect. You gotta love how trust moved to extreme trust to deep trust. You'd think Jimmy G and Shanny are dating and he doesn't want Jimmy G to cheat on our coach by the way he's talking. I've never.

I dunno "el",....seeking out other posters to bail you out instead of finding this clear evidence is pretty much waving the white flag on a message board,...no?

Since you weren't able to find or post any,...here is the evidence I watched that points to the contrary regarding trusting him more than your average NFL QB in critical situations. (Keep in mind I didn't have to, because YOU are making the claim and it's on YOU to back it up with tangible evidence)

Let's begin with "Critical Situation #1",....vs. Minnesota....



Successful 1st drive...things starting to look a little ugly afterwards. Then this is where the abandonment of the passing game began in the playoffs that -- I'm sorry -- paints exactly the opposite narrative of what you're trying to claim.

I got the impression going from that bad end of the half to handicapping his arm for the 2nd half that Shanahan had gotten "spooked" at that point because he really, really wanted to advance in the playoffs and didn't want anything in the cards he didn't fully trust getting in the way of that. That transition between halves was how I saw it.

Then on to Green Bay....





You'd rather take a little more time to be clicking on all cylinders with the NFCCG in hand,...IF you are confident enough to do so. Again,...not wanting to do so (form the Minn game onto here) paints an opposite narrative of what you're saying. Onto the Super Bowl...



and some more-analytic stuff...



See the part about easy throws accounting for much of the good looking stats through 3 quarters? About just how much we utilized the run to setup the pass? Then what happened?

Mahomes finally got a little hot with our defense getting tired from short drives, scored some points, and we were required to score points in a short time frame, where, as KC's defense knows by that point, you're going to HAVE TO pass.

As the stats above show, when we finally needed to pass in the playoffs, we failed miserably.

The info I have about critical situations from our last postseason gives me the opposite feel for what you're trying to say was "proven."

Gonna need more,...and since I covered games 1, 2, and 3 of his most critical games here,...I have no clue where you're going to get "more" from.

Shanahan trusts Jimmy to an extent. He also doesn't trust Jimmy to an extent. This is not a black and white issue, regardless how much you may want it to be.

Those saying he does and those saying he doesn't -- without any additional info given -- are both right.

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

This is becoming just like all of the old Alex Smith threads, and just as pointless. Garoppolo is being asked to execute the offense that Shanahan designs for him and, generally speaking, he does that pretty well. It seems to me that his main issues are consistency and protecting the ball. He has demonstrated more than once, the ability to hang in there and sling it, it just seems as though he can't do it game in and game out like the really elite guys. If he can get a handle on that than he is more than good enough to get the job done. The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch. So far Jimmy has won a lot more than he has lost for us and to his credit, how he does it doesn't really seem to matter much to him. Whether he is asked to throw it 40 times or hand it off 40 times, as long as he gets the win he's good with it. To my mind all of these arguments boil down to the essential truth about a lot of 49er "fans" that Steve Young articulated so succinctly all of those years ago. In SF it's not enough that you win, you have to earn style points as well.

I 1000% agree. That's pretty much it. If you're not dropping bombs like Rodgers, making insane escapes away from pressure like RW, or throwing cross-body no-look passes for touchdowns like Mahomes, you will forever be labeled as "nothing more than above average or good at best, but never great.

I get really annoyed by Jimmy sometimes, but won't sit here and act like he hasn't made big plays TONS of times in his time here. Last year the Steelers game winning drive. The shootout against the Saints. The comeback against Arizona down 16 early, the blowout of #1 ranked defense in Jacksonville in 2017 and game winning drives against the Bears and Titans (playoff-bound that year).

I see the positives and the negatives, but as I've said multiple times, until there's a clear opportunity to replace him with someone obviously better, there's no reason to give him the boot -- especially when his price tag really isn't all that high in comparison to the rest of the league right now.

Originally posted by random49er:

I dunno "el",....seeking out other posters to bail you out instead of finding this clear evidence is pretty much waving the white flag on a message board,...no?

Since you weren't able to find or post any,...here is the evidence I watched that points to the contrary regarding trusting him more than your average NFL QB in critical situations. (Keep in mind I didn't have to, because YOU are making the claim and it's on YOU to back it up with tangible evidence)

Let's begin with "Critical Situation #1",....vs. Minnesota....



Successful 1st drive...things starting to look a little ugly afterwards. Then this is where the abandonment of the passing game began in the playoffs that -- I'm sorry -- paints exactly the opposite narrative of what you're trying to claim.

I got the impression going from that bad end of the half to handicapping his arm for the 2nd half that Shanahan had gotten "spooked" at that point because he really, really wanted to advance in the playoffs and didn't want anything in the cards he didn't fully trust getting in the way of that. That transition between halves was how I saw it.

Then on to Green Bay....





You'd rather take a little more time to be clicking on all cylinders with the NFCCG in hand,...IF you are confident enough to do so. Again,...not wanting to do so (form the Minn game onto here) paints an opposite narrative of what you're saying. Onto the Super Bowl...



and some more-analytic stuff...



See the part about easy throws accounting for much of the good looking stats through 3 quarters? About just how much we utilized the run to setup the pass? Then what happened?

Mahomes finally got a little hot with our defense getting tired from short drives, scored some points, and we were required to score points in a short time frame, where, as KC's defense knows by that point, you're going to HAVE TO pass.

As the stats above show, when we finally needed to pass in the playoffs, we failed miserably.

The info I have about critical situations from our last postseason gives me the opposite feel for what you're trying to say was "proven."

Gonna need more,...and since I covered games 1, 2, and 3 of his most critical games here,...I have no clue where you're going to get "more" from.

Shanahan trusts Jimmy to an extent. He also doesn't trust Jimmy to an extent. This is not a black and white issue, regardless how much you may want it to be.

Those saying he does and those saying he doesn't -- without any additional info given -- are both right.

Lol,.....most would understand the tongue in cheek "trust him with what?" question to understand that translates to "...well it depends what we're talking about."

Kinda hilarious that when stuff like that flies right over some, it gets labeled "moving the goal posts" instead manning up n saying "well I didnt understand or overreacted!"

Cute meme, btw.

Lol wow