Jimmy Garoppolo, QB, Los Angeles Rams

Originally posted by elguapo:
Not at all emotional. I think what you do is you say something really controversial and a lot of times not accurate

How is it controversial or not accurate to ask a question about a vague suggestion made on here??

Since it keeps being said,...I plainly asked "trust him with what?"

I'll trust a security guard if it's about protecting my luggage,...but I'll opt for a policeman if it's about protecting my life. As you can see, trust is an extremely relative term.

TRUST comes up on here over and over [from those that are in a defensive stance] and its extremely disingenuous to keep complaining about it as if he's the most capable, trustworthy QB ever with any gameplan, throw, or situation,...lol. Let's be real about what we have.

It's true that Shanahan trusts Jimmy. It's also true that he doesn't trust Jimmy. They aren't mutually exclusive and at the end of the day, you've gotta ride with the best option you've got.

The next time people call out others for suggesting Shanahan doesn't/didn't trust Jimmy,...it'd be great if they include the specific reference. THEN we can examine what's really what.

How can I be any more clear and concise than that response?

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by ninersrule4:

Matt Ryan > JG he wouldn't miss that pass in the SB

Lol you act like Matt Ryan didn't choke in a Super Bowl either.

didnt matty ice take a horrible sack on 3rd down?

And last time I checked he had Sanu Julio Jones a great OL great rbs a good te. He choked plain and simple. Jimmy had far less as far as skill positions and pass pro.

Originally posted by random49er:

How is it controversial or not accurate to ask a question about a vague suggestion made on here??

Since it keeps being said,...I plainly asked "trust him with what?"

I'll trust a security guard if it's about protecting my luggage,...but I'll opt for a policeman if it's about protecting my life. As you can see, trust is an extremely relative term.

TRUST comes up on here over and over (from those that are in a defense stance) and its extremely disingenuous to keep complaining about it as if he's the most capable, trustworthy QB ever with any gameplan, throw, or situation,...lol. Let's be real about what we have.

It's true that Shanahan trusts Jimmy. It's also true that he doesn't trust Jimmy. They aren't mutually exclusive.

The next time people call out others for suggesting Shanahan doesn't/didn't trust Jimmy,...it'd be great to include the specific reference. THEN we can examine what's really what.

How can I be any more clear and concise than that response?

How can we be more clear with trust which is clearly shown by putting the ball in the hands of Jimmy in clutch and crucial situations and Jimmy coming thru more times than not. He has shown this with his TOP 3rd and 4th down percentage as well as constantly WINNING games. He is the difference

Originally posted by elguapo:
How can we be more clear with trust which is clearly shown by putting the ball in the hands of Jimmy in clutch and crucial situations and Jimmy coming thru more times than not.

1) I observed the exact opposite throughout the playoff run. I remember one of the games Jimmy came out cold and Shanny pretty muched stopped passing and we ran roughshod over the opponent. The playoff run didn't show us full trust in crucial situations, but if u wanna be believe it anyway, you are entitled to.

2) Refer to the edit where I added that at the end of the day, you've gotta ride with the best option you've got. I'm not taking much of a "gamble" playing chess if I'm down to a King and a Pawn and there's only 1 valid move. You've gotta move either way and try your best.

So no,....I don't buy that moving up a spot when you have to anyway shows extreme trust in crucial situations. I need ALOT more (time/date/opponent, down and distance, time left on the clock, et. al.) that shows he has this extreme trust in crucial situations. I can then go and watch these daring plays and get your point.

Nothing controversial here,...just the plain truth.

This is becoming just like all of the old Alex Smith threads, and just as pointless. Garoppolo is being asked to execute the offense that Shanahan designs for him and, generally speaking, he does that pretty well. It seems to me that his main issues are consistency and protecting the ball. He has demonstrated more than once, the ability to hang in there and sling it, it just seems as though he can't do it game in and game out like the really elite guys. If he can get a handle on that than he is more than good enough to get the job done. The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch. So far Jimmy has won a lot more than he has lost for us and to his credit, how he does it doesn't really seem to matter much to him. Whether he is asked to throw it 40 times or hand it off 40 times, as long as he gets the win he's good with it. To my mind all of these arguments boil down to the essential truth about a lot of 49er "fans" that Steve Young articulated so succinctly all of those years ago. In SF it's not enough that you win, you have to earn style points as well.

Originally posted by 49ers81:
The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch.

Stretching the field makes the offense less predictable and more dangerous. Deep opens up the short game and the short game opens up our mostly-untested deep game. This isin't just some wild theory out there,...it's based on defensive coverages and it's true.

Yes,...there are fans that simply want more entertainment with long throws. The problem is you lump those concerned with strategy and hopeful of another long playoff run with a lesser defense in with them and discredit

They may be wrong,...maybe we CAN dink and dunk our way back to the Super Bowl? Either way,....claiming everyone that disagrees with your stance just wants more entertainment is the real lazy out to the issue, IMO.

Would be great to revisit your take that deep passes arent needed in the NFL after our next 5 or so games.

Originally posted by tankle104:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
One thing I want to see Jimmy improve on is playing consistently well for a long period of time before making a mistake or what kind of throw was that.

No QB plays perfect all game long every single game of the season. Rodgers misses passes, Brady misses passes, Mahommes misses passes.

People need to get over this fantasy of a QB playing perfect all game every game - Montana and Young also missed passes.

I didn't say he needs to play perfect all game every game, I said he needs to play consistently well for a longer periods instead of just a quarter or half before making those boneheaded plays that he consistently makes. All those qbs you named have had periods of time where they're just in the zone and nothing can stop them and have consistently done that. Now obviously every once in a while qbs are going to miss throw no one is going to make every single throw, watching Jimmy, its like I'm expecting that errand throw or boneheaded play to be coming up after he has like 1 good drive or few good throws. Which is what I posted on what I wanted him to improve on.. more of a 80-90% good plays ratio vs bad plays.

People need to get over the fact that Jimmy has lots to improve on and that its okay to want more from your FQB and call it out.

Originally posted by 49ers81:

This is becoming just like all of the old Alex Smith threads, and just as pointless. Garoppolo is being asked to execute the offense that Shanahan designs for him and, generally speaking, he does that pretty well. It seems to me that his main issues are consistency and protecting the ball. He has demonstrated more than once, the ability to hang in there and sling it, it just seems as though he can't do it game in and game out like the really elite guys. If he can get a handle on that than he is more than good enough to get the job done. The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch. So far Jimmy has won a lot more than he has lost for us and to his credit, how he does it doesn't really seem to matter much to him. Whether he is asked to throw it 40 times or hand it off 40 times, as long as he gets the win he's good with it. To my mind all of these arguments boil down to the essential truth about a lot of 49er "fans" that Steve Young articulated so succinctly all of those years ago. In SF it's not enough that you win, you have to earn style points as well.

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

Originally posted by 49ers81:
This is becoming just like all of the old Alex Smith threads, and just as pointless. Garoppolo is being asked to execute the offense that Shanahan designs for him and, generally speaking, he does that pretty well. It seems to me that his main issues are consistency and protecting the ball. He has demonstrated more than once, the ability to hang in there and sling it, it just seems as though he can't do it game in and game out like the really elite guys. If he can get a handle on that than he is more than good enough to get the job done. The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch. So far Jimmy has won a lot more than he has lost for us and to his credit, how he does it doesn't really seem to matter much to him. Whether he is asked to throw it 40 times or hand it off 40 times, as long as he gets the win he's good with it. To my mind all of these arguments boil down to the essential truth about a lot of 49er "fans" that Steve Young articulated so succinctly all of those years ago. In SF it's not enough that you win, you have to earn style points as well.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

This is becoming just like all of the old Alex Smith threads, and just as pointless. Garoppolo is being asked to execute the offense that Shanahan designs for him and, generally speaking, he does that pretty well. It seems to me that his main issues are consistency and protecting the ball. He has demonstrated more than once, the ability to hang in there and sling it, it just seems as though he can't do it game in and game out like the really elite guys. If he can get a handle on that than he is more than good enough to get the job done. The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch. So far Jimmy has won a lot more than he has lost for us and to his credit, how he does it doesn't really seem to matter much to him. Whether he is asked to throw it 40 times or hand it off 40 times, as long as he gets the win he's good with it. To my mind all of these arguments boil down to the essential truth about a lot of 49er "fans" that Steve Young articulated so succinctly all of those years ago. In SF it's not enough that you win, you have to earn style points as well.

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

Originally posted by 49ers81:
This is becoming just like all of the old Alex Smith threads, and just as pointless. Garoppolo is being asked to execute the offense that Shanahan designs for him and, generally speaking, he does that pretty well. It seems to me that his main issues are consistency and protecting the ball. He has demonstrated more than once, the ability to hang in there and sling it, it just seems as though he can't do it game in and game out like the really elite guys. If he can get a handle on that than he is more than good enough to get the job done. The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch. So far Jimmy has won a lot more than he has lost for us and to his credit, how he does it doesn't really seem to matter much to him. Whether he is asked to throw it 40 times or hand it off 40 times, as long as he gets the win he's good with it. To my mind all of these arguments boil down to the essential truth about a lot of 49er "fans" that Steve Young articulated so succinctly all of those years ago. In SF it's not enough that you win, you have to earn style points as well.

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch.

Stretching the field makes the offense less predictable and more dangerous. Deep opens up the short game and the short game opens up our mostly-untested deep game. This isin't just some wild theory out there,...it's based on defensive coverages and it's true.

Yes,...there are fans that simply want more entertainment with long throws. The problem is you lump those concerned with strategy and hopeful of another long playoff run with a lesser defense in with them and discredit

They may be wrong,...maybe we CAN dink and dunk our way back to the Super Bowl? Either way,....claiming everyone that disagrees with your stance just wants more entertainment is the real lazy out to the issue, IMO.

Would be great to revisit your take that deep passes arent needed in the NFL after our next 5 or so games.

IMO, Part of KS getting YAC Kings like Kittle, Deebo, and Aiyuk is so he doesn't have to stretch the field vertically but horizontally with a rare case of going vertical when the defense creeps up, which I think plays a big part in why sometimes Juice is always open on his go routes. Stretching the field horizontally has a higher completion percentage with a lower TO risk than going vertical. It also tires out the DL faster and for the most part neutralize a dominant pass rush like we've seen this past game. The middle of the field is always open because the defense is stretched horizontally. Minus the DL(3-5 players), it's really difficult for 6-8 guys to cover over 50 yards of playing field and KS knows that. I believe he actually wants the defense to concentrate on taking the middle of the field away so he can counter with WR sweeps, tosses, screens and run around plays giving his playmakers a chance to do what they do best. It'll also benefits his OZ running scheme. Defense being late to the outside will give the OL time to be in position to block them out. Stretching the field horizontally might not be the sexiest and the most entertaining scheme at all but its much more effective than going vertical when one or two safeties are waiting to make a play. Plus, it's hard to go vertical with the inconsistency the OL are playing and KS understands that. Jimmy is great with short and intermediate passes, that's the G-spot for KS's passing scheme.

Originally posted by random49er:

1) I observed the exact opposite throughout the playoff run. I remember one of the games Jimmy came out cold and Shanny pretty muched stopped passing and we ran roughshod over the opponent. The playoff run didn't show us full trust in crucial situations, but if u wanna be believe it anyway, you are entitled to.

2) Refer to the edit where I added that at the end of the day, you've gotta ride with the best option you've got. I'm not taking much of a "gamble" playing chess if I'm down to a King and a Pawn and there's only 1 valid move. You've gotta move either way and try your best.

So no,....I don't buy that moving up a spot when you have to anyway shows extreme trust in crucial situations. I need ALOT more (time/date/opponent, down and distance, time left on the clock, et. al.) that shows he has this extreme trust in crucial situations. I can then go and watch these daring plays and get your point.

Nothing controversial here,...just the plain truth.

Not the truth at all. That's your truth. Not most peoples. And certainly not our coaches truth.

It's been proven that just because we were destroying teams with the run, we kept running not because our quarterback was going to lose us the game and our coach didn't have "extreme trust". That's ridiculous. It seems like you're moving the goalposts with this argument. First our coach does trust our quarterback. Once that was proven now you're saying you need extreme trust. .

Also, I guess you missed the part where our coach was saying that Jimmy Garoppolo would've been the MVP because he started out 18 for 21 in the SB. That is ridiculously good. So that is the truth. He also trusted our quarterback to make those throws in the fourth quarter a few of which an all pro defensive tackle named Chris Jones swatted them down when Jimmy Garoppolo would've hit those throws to Kittle and the game would've been over. Our OL failed or you can say the play calling failed. Jimmy did miss that throw to Sanders I fault him for that. However Mahomes threw 2 ints and fumbled twice and missed some easy throws. That's 4 turnovers if you're counting, luckily the ball bounced their way.

So I don't know what the hell you were talking about. Let's just end this with Jimmy is a very good qb but he's not great yet. All he does is win with little help from our wrs or pass protection.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

This is becoming just like all of the old Alex Smith threads, and just as pointless. Garoppolo is being asked to execute the offense that Shanahan designs for him and, generally speaking, he does that pretty well. It seems to me that his main issues are consistency and protecting the ball. He has demonstrated more than once, the ability to hang in there and sling it, it just seems as though he can't do it game in and game out like the really elite guys. If he can get a handle on that than he is more than good enough to get the job done. The whole YAC vs Air yards debate is just a lazy argument for people who like to believe that "real" QBs throw it all over the field because, well, because it just so much more entertaining to watch. So far Jimmy has won a lot more than he has lost for us and to his credit, how he does it doesn't really seem to matter much to him. Whether he is asked to throw it 40 times or hand it off 40 times, as long as he gets the win he's good with it. To my mind all of these arguments boil down to the essential truth about a lot of 49er "fans" that Steve Young articulated so succinctly all of those years ago. In SF it's not enough that you win, you have to earn style points as well.

Originally posted by elguapo:

Originally posted by random49er:
A little emotional there. Trust is a relative term.

There's no sense in arguing about whether he does or doesn't trust him without more specific references.

Which is why I ask "Trust him with what?"

Example: He'll never be trusted by Shanahan to engineer a comeback or a drive against a great defense like he's Joe Montana or Tom Brady or anything. But he trusts him to be the main QB once he's had a look at QB2 and QB3 in live action by now.

You don't have to give a guy the security code to your house to "trust" him.

Not at all emotional. I think what you do is you say something really controversial and a lot of times not accurate and when we answer back you simply say really emotional there huh? Or triggered huh? I think we are the ones triggering you and then you have to react like that just to make your case seem more logical and ours seem more emotional when in reality you're view is more wrong than right and you're not seeing it in the context of things like we are. Reality

you should really hang out here more often , lol. nailed it.