Bosa vs Chargers

Originally posted by SoCold:

oh excuse me I meant "retired" players AND FA prob should have added a / maybe? He only listed 2 players while we have lost like over half a team of talent after firing the coaching staff before Dumbsula. Who really cares take your pick?

No one can prove that any of the players that retired did it just so they didn't have to play for the Dumbsula clown show because they would never say it. I do think it was a factor for some guys like Justin Smith.

When I see a FA CB pick the Raiders over the 49ers because the team with the most cap space wouldn't pay him a little extra I find that odd.

That all sounds very San Diego ish to me.

Yes I didnt think you could. Of course no other team loses players to FA.

Avoidance technique.

if I were the chargers, I'd let him hold out and not budge, at all. f**k him. punk ass b***h.

It's both their fault. The owners protected themselves with rookie contracts and aging player contracts and now they want more. Just because the players drafted before him and after him received that type of contract. Doesn't mean Bosa does? The players talk but don't stand up for themselves. I like what Jim Trotter said. Why don't cam, Russell and the young Qb's coming up make stand... Like everywhere else, in contracts dealing with municipalities or corporate its take take but no give. Antonio Gates and Tomlinson should not be hypocrites and should keep quiet because they held out for money at a point in their career. At a certain point the front office should take some responsibility and take ownership for their picks instead of attacking the player... It's both their fault... The players need to wake and fight for what they want, don't cry... Imho I agree with Jim Trotter on what he said on Mike and Mike from my minuscule understanding of what's going on.

I'm leaning towards Bosa if I had to choose. Fight for you want bruh, no one else will.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:
I found this explanation. Looks like it tells the story pretty in depth and accurate:

What's the deal with Joey Bosa and the Chargers?

Bosa and the Chargers are currently involved in a dispute about the terms of their contract.


Aren't rookie deals preset in this CBA? What's the hold up?

Total money is set but there are still things to discuss, such as when bonus money is paid out and something called offset language, among other things. The big disagreement between Bosa and the Chargers is about the bonus payout and the offset language.


What is offset language?

Contracts for the top half of the first round are fully guaranteed. Offset language comes into play in the event a player doesn't finish out his contract.
Let's say, for the sake of simplicity, that Bosa signs a 4 year, $16M contract, at $4M a year. As the #3 pick in the draft, this deal would be fully guaranteed. Now let's say for whatever reason, the Chargers cut Bosa after year 3. They'd still owe him $4M.
Upon release, if Bosa signs a new deal with the Raiders for 1 year, $3M, then he would collect $7M that year. He'd get the $4M he's owed from the Chargers plus the $3M from the Raiders.

But with offset language in the contract, the Chargers wouldn't be responsible for the whole $4M. They would only be responsible for paying the difference between what they owe and what he earns with his new deal. So if he signs that $3M deal, the Chargers would only have to pay $1M ($4M they owe minus the $3M new deal). In this case, Bosa would only collect $4M that year ($3M from the Raiders plus the $1M from the Chargers). If he signed a $4M deal, the Chargers wouldn't owe him anything. Teams want offset language, players don't.



What's the deal with the bonus money?

Bosa wants all his signing bonus money up front, the Chargers want to defer some of it to future years. Again, the contract is fully guaranteed so they aren't trying to avoid paying him, they're just trying to avoid paying him this year.


What's the precedent for this situation?

According to PFT:
The fact remains that, since 2012, the third overall pick has had either no offset or no deferral.
Basically, Bosa wants what everyone else in his position has received since the new CBA was put in place. He either wants his bonus money up front OR he wants no offset language. He's not asking for both, he just wants one or the other. Meanwhile the Chargers want to defer his bonus AND they want him to have offset language. They don't want to give in on either issue.



What can Bosa do? What can the Chargers do?

Easiest things: Bosa can budge and give in to the Chargers, accepting a deal with offset language and deferred bonus money. OR The Chargers can budge and give in to Bosa, giving him no offsets and/or all his bonus money up front.

Assuming neither side wants to budge any time soon, here's what the timeline looks like:

They have until Tuesday after Week 10 to come to an agreement on a contract which would allow Bosa to play this year. Following that Tuesday, if there is still no contract in place, they have until the first day of the 2017 draft to come to an agreement which would allow Bosa to play for them starting in 2017. If the first day of the draft comes and he has not signed a new contract, he is entered into that draft and eligible to be drafted by any team except the Chargers.


Relevant passage from the CBA that mentions the above:

If a Drafted Rookie has not signed a Player Contract during the period from the date of such Draft to the thirtieth day prior to the first game of the regular season: (i) the Club that drafted the player may not thereafter trade to another Club either its exclusive negotiating rights to such player or any Player Contract that it signs with such player for the player's initial League Year; and (ii) the Club that drafted the player is the only Club with which the player may sign a Player Contract until the day of the Draft in the subsequent League Year, at which time such player is eligible to be drafted in the subsequent League Year's Draft by any Club except the Club that drafted him in the initial Draft. (After the Tuesday following the tenth week of the regular season, the player and the Club may sign a Player Contract only for future League Year(s)).


Can Bosa go back to college? Or play in Canada or Arena Football?

He can't play any college ball. He can go play in Canada or some other pro league, but if he does that the Chargers would own his exclusive NFL rights for 3 years (in this case he wouldn't enter the 2017 draft, or any other future draft), and then would have first refusal rights after that. So if he plays in Canada for 1 to 3 years and comes back, he can only sign with the Chargers, unless they waive their rights to him. If he comes back in 4 years then he can negotiate with any team, however the Chargers get a chance to match the deal with a right of first refusal (similar to being a restricted free agent).

Relevant CBA passage:

(a) Notwithstanding Section 4(b) above, if a player is drafted by a Club and, during the period between the Draft and the next annual Draft, signs a contract with, plays for, or is employed by a professional football team not in the NFL during all or any part of the 12-month period following the initial Draft, then the drafting Club (or any assignee Club) shall retain the exclusive NFL rights to negotiate for and sign a contract with the player until the day of the Draft three League Years after the initial Draft, and shall thereafter have a Right of First Refusal as described herein, and the player may receive offers from any Club at any time thereafter. The player shall notify the NFLPA and the NFL of his desire to sign a contract with an NFL Club and of the date on which the player will be free of his other contractual obligations of employment, if any. Within thirty days of receipt of such notice by the NFL or the date of the availability of such player, whichever is later, the NFL Club that drafted the player must tender a Player Contract as set forth in Section 3 above to the player in order to retain its rights to that player

Excellent post!

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by SoCold:
oh excuse me I meant "retired" players AND FA prob should have added a / maybe? He only listed 2 players while we have lost like over half a team of talent after firing the coaching staff before Dumbsula. Who really cares take your pick?

No one can prove that any of the players that retired did it just so they didn't have to play for the Dumbsula clown show because they would never say it. I do think it was a factor for some guys like Justin Smith.

When I see a FA CB pick the Raiders over the 49ers because the team with the most cap space wouldn't pay him a little extra I find that odd.

That all sounds very San Diego ish to me.

Yes I didnt think you could. Of course no other team loses players to FA.

Avoidance technique.

Did I say that? No. Was just comparing SD and SF front offices.

So in my mind SF front office is just as bad as SD. In your mind they are what like 80% the same?

Lol both s**tty.

The owners are protecting themselves so far, that it's getting to the point that whoever is drafting can draft whoever they feel then blame the player or tax the player. If the player doesn't live up to the hype. Where is the line in responsibility... Hmmmmm looks like it's getting pushed back... That's excellent job security... I'll tell you that.

From Bosa point of view, it's one or the other. Not both. I think that's fair. Considering all the taking the owners have been doing these past years.

P.s Shame on the players for not standing up for themselves and their brethrens coming after them....

Joel Corry‏ @corryjoel
2015 1st overall pick James Winston signed a deal with offsets & signing bonus deferral. Last $6M of signing bonus was paid on 3/31/16.

Joel Corry‏ @corryjoel
2014 1st overall pick Jadeveon Clowney has offsets & signing bonus deferral. Last $3,629,636 of signing bonus was paid on 2/23/15.

I'm starting to admire Bosa more than some other players who would have kept their head down and signed the contract giving in to the Chargers. Unfortunately for the Chargers, they drafted a player who is willing to stand up for himself and other rookies. He's in a unique position to resist being strong-armed because unlike some other draft picks, he doesn't need the money from his rookie contract right away.

This is a team trying to take advantage of a player who is already getting paid well under market value under the current CBA. The Chargers are already getting a player for a fraction of what he would get in the open market. Then on top of that, the owner is trying to defer the guaranteed money to line his own pocket (this has no impact on the team's cap space). Sam Bradford got 6 years $78 million and the top pick would get significantly more than that now based on how much the cap has gone up since then. A year later under the 2011 (current) agreement, Cam Newton got 4 years $22 million.

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by AUniner:

^^^

A question, should a team approach the Chargers with a trade, a deal is then signed between Bosa & Chargers, can he be traded? Maybe that's a win for all?

I think I read that the time has passed that rookies can be traded. So before that date, he could have been traded for whatever was offered to the chargers and they accepted. It would have been between bosa and that new team to strike a deal. The chargers would have just been trading away his rights.

It's about bonus money and offset language in the contract. That's it. Usually the team gives a player one of what he wants. Either remove the language or give them the full bonus now. I believe they said this happens with 90% of rookie deals now.

Problem is SD won't give on either. Bosa won't either. Standstill.

Uh, no s**t bro. You didn't happen to see the enormous post I posted explaining the whole thing? lol


I was answering his specific question pertaining to trading him. I don't know why you jumped in with something that had nothing to do with trading him. lol

They need to talk to MC Hammer.

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by SoCold:

Originally posted by StOnEy333:

Originally posted by AUniner:
^^^

A question, should a team approach the Chargers with a trade, a deal is then signed between Bosa & Chargers, can he be traded? Maybe that's a win for all?

I think I read that the time has passed that rookies can be traded. So before that date, he could have been traded for whatever was offered to the chargers and they accepted. It would have been between bosa and that new team to strike a deal. The chargers would have just been trading away his rights.

It's about bonus money and offset language in the contract. That's it. Usually the team gives a player one of what he wants. Either remove the language or give them the full bonus now. I believe they said this happens with 90% of rookie deals now.

Problem is SD won't give on either. Bosa won't either. Standstill.

Uh, no s**t bro. You didn't happen to see the enormous post I posted explaining the whole thing? lol


I was answering his specific question pertaining to trading him. I don't know why you jumped in with something that had nothing to do with trading him. lol

My post was for people who didn't want to read all those stupid words.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Joel Corry‏ @corryjoel
2015 1st overall pick James Winston signed a deal with offsets & signing bonus deferral. Last $6M of signing bonus was paid on 3/31/16.

Joel Corry‏ @corryjoel
2014 1st overall pick Jadeveon Clowney has offsets & signing bonus deferral. Last $3,629,636 of signing bonus was paid on 2/23/15.

This year no other rookie had to give up both. It's been one or the other.

I just sit here and grin knowing 49ers got the player SD could've drafted, DeFo Mofo. But their moronic scouting dept. had Bosa higher up on the draftboard than Buckner, so their loss. Thank you very much Chargers.

DAMN, they're still at odds?

Dude just throw away his first year regardless