Jacksonville Jaguar Arik Armstead-DT Thread

Originally posted by thl408:
Say what you want about Tomsula as a HC. One thing everyone on this board agreed with is that he is a pimp as a Dline coach. So he knows DLinemen. Gotta think he had some input of the AA selection. One concern I do have is the critique that AA doesn't always "show up" to play. A coach can bludgeon technique into a player's head, but only the player can rev his own motor.

That's my only real concern. I'm not sure how much is scheme (perception of effort vs. playing his assignments) like how we used Ray McDonald...rarely rushed him vs. heart. If it's heart, that's not good!

Originally posted by buck:
and another opinion


17: San Francisco 49ers (Traded from San Diego)

Arik Armstead, DI, Oregon

Another player who landed on his positional buyer beware list. Armstead has first round tools and barely day two tape, with him finishing only 26th out of draft eligible defensive interior. What's worse is you'd like to see more than the 26 quarterback disruptions he managed, highlighting just how raw he is.

Still the 49ers are preparing for life without Ray McDonald and possibly Justin Smith, so adding a physical freak along the defensive line was always a likely move. He should compete for playing time straight away but he might take a couple of years if he's ever to develop into a consistent every down player.



https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/04/30/2015-draft-reaction-blog-day-1/

An analysis based on sacks for a 3-4 end in a disciplined scheme...thought AA already addressed that.

every "highlight" reel I've seen of him, shows nothing special. Only thing he has going for him is that he's big. Dude just lumbers forward and sometimes, happens to run right into the running back.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:

Say what you want about Tomsula as a HC. One thing everyone on this board agreed with is that he is a pimp as a Dline coach. So he knows DLinemen. Gotta think he had some input of the AA selection. One concern I do have is the critique that AA doesn't always "show up" to play. A coach can bludgeon technique into a player's head, but only the player can rev his own motor.

That's my only real concern. I'm not sure how much is scheme (perception of effort vs. playing his assignments) like how we used Ray McDonald...rarely rushed him vs. heart. If it's heart, that's not good!

The real concern is realistically how long will jimmy T be around to coach him up? Armstead is a project. A big project

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Evil is completely right, unfortunately for us.

Even of his measurables weren't great the biggest knock on him is the worst, and that's the questioning of his heart. Players can be coached up, but it's highly unlikely if they don't have the dedication to put in the time.

At least with the Ward pick you could turn on his college game tape and see him doing a lot of good things. With Armstead it's the exact opposite. Always fired off the ball late, stiff hips, doesn't use is hands to disengage OL, no mean streak, horrible agility, not strong, and questionable dedication.....f**k....he has 4th or 5th round talent, at best.

Edit: most of the members that have read my posts know that im a pretty positive person(when it comes to the team)in general, so it's not like im bashing the pick just to "stir the pot"

You can teach a player everything except heart and dedication...

Originally posted by Niners99:
He didnt produce results in college, but theres are TONS of cases where great NFL players looked average in college, or worse.

Hes still a 20 year old kid. He has all the tools to be a great player, and we have some of the best DL coaches in the NFL that will teach him NFL technique.

I dont get how 85% of the fans here are groaning over this pick, and how "terrible" it was, but at the same time praying for DGB tomorrow, who also has loads of talent, but didnt really live up to it in college.

Baalke has a pretty good track record selecting front 7 guys in the draft, especially in the first 5 rounds. Bowman, Aldon, Lynch, Borland, Dial, Tank, etc. Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt..

Damn you and your rationale posts!

The pick makes a lot of sense. I like the pick a LOT better then the Ward pick. I wish Parker WR woulda fell to 15 but Armstead has the size and at a position of MAJOR need. I just hope he's more like Justin then Kentwan.

Originally posted by wailers15:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by thl408:
Say what you want about Tomsula as a HC. One thing everyone on this board agreed with is that he is a pimp as a Dline coach. So he knows DLinemen. Gotta think he had some input of the AA selection. One concern I do have is the critique that AA doesn't always "show up" to play. A coach can bludgeon technique into a player's head, but only the player can rev his own motor.

That's my only real concern. I'm not sure how much is scheme (perception of effort vs. playing his assignments) like how we used Ray McDonald...rarely rushed him vs. heart. If it's heart, that's not good!

The real concern is realistically how long will jimmy T be around to coach him up? Armstead is a project. A big project

I know the coaches have alluded to him being raw but so was another 20 year old in M.Martin...the difference here is that AA was already working within a scheme that translates instantly to our 3-4 here. Like Aldon, Lynch, Dorsey, Williams, Carradine and Dial, AA will need to slowly grow into the position and he's got THE best DL and coaches to learn from. Tomsula said this is the strongest DL group he's seen since working with us...and we just added more talent to it. He's essentially just like Ward in that he'll learn both DE spots and work him way into a FT role. And in the interim, he'll be used on base downs or pass rush downs for Aldon/Brooks/Lynch to occupy 2 lineman. I know it's not an exciting pick but I like it...it's a smart pick now and esp. after he develops for a year or two like Tank.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners99:
He didnt produce results in college, but theres are TONS of cases where great NFL players looked average in college, or worse.

Hes still a 20 year old kid. He has all the tools to be a great player, and we have some of the best DL coaches in the NFL that will teach him NFL technique.

I dont get how 85% of the fans here are groaning over this pick, and how "terrible" it was, but at the same time praying for DGB tomorrow, who also has loads of talent, but didnt really live up to it in college.

Baalke has a pretty good track record selecting front 7 guys in the draft, especially in the first 5 rounds. Bowman, Aldon, Lynch, Borland, Dial, Tank, etc. Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt..

Damn you and your rationale posts!

I wouldn't say "he has all the tools" because being tall isn't a tool. You could say "he has all the tools" if he was really strong, great 3-cone time, played with great leverage, those are "tools".

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Niners99:
He didnt produce results in college, but theres are TONS of cases where great NFL players looked average in college, or worse.

Hes still a 20 year old kid. He has all the tools to be a great player, and we have some of the best DL coaches in the NFL that will teach him NFL technique.

I dont get how 85% of the fans here are groaning over this pick, and how "terrible" it was, but at the same time praying for DGB tomorrow, who also has loads of talent, but didnt really live up to it in college.

Baalke has a pretty good track record selecting front 7 guys in the draft, especially in the first 5 rounds. Bowman, Aldon, Lynch, Borland, Dial, Tank, etc. Maybe we should give him the benefit of the doubt..

Damn you and your rationale posts!

Don't fret gentlemen if we take DGB and he gets in trouble off the field, the lynch mob will be out for Baalke. Because damned if you do damned if you don't.

Originally posted by InsertNameHere:
Evil is completely right, unfortunately for us.

Even of his measurables weren't great the biggest knock on him is the worst, and that's the questioning of his heart. Players can be coached up, but it's highly unlikely if they don't have the dedication to put in the time.

At least with the Ward pick you could turn on his college game tape and see him doing a lot of good things. With Armstead it's the exact opposite. Always fired off the ball late, stiff hips, doesn't use is hands to disengage OL, no mean streak, horrible agility, not strong, and questionable dedication.....f**k....he has 4th or 5th round talent, at best.

Edit: most of the members that have read my posts know that im a pretty positive in general, so it's not like im bashing the pick just to "stir the pot"

You see the same things I am seeing. I agree, 4th or 5th rounder for a lot of the reasons you stated and I mentioned. I also am not generally negative. But I do call things as I see them. We still have a very talented roster in spite of this pick. I can only hope to be completely wrong about this kid.

Seems like this is a pick you make when you are rebuilding, not one you make when you think you are a playoff team.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Damn you and your rationale posts!

Sorry but his tools are not good and he has yet to name college players who were bad in college but great in the pros. I am usually very positive because we often do positive things. But this is not one of those things.

Originally posted by KRS-1:
Don't fret gentlemen if we take DGB and he gets in trouble off the field, the lynch mob will be out for Baalke. Because damned if you do damned if you don't.

DGB is a major wild card. He has very little tape and a lot of question marks. Also has things you can't teach. I think there's a decent chance he falls further than a lot expect because of the question marks. I think Baalke has done a very good job, but he blew this pick IMO.

Originally posted by Evilgenius:
You see the same things I am seeing. I agree, 4th or 5th rounder for a lot of the reasons you stated and I mentioned. I also am not generally negative. But I do call things as I see them. We still have a very talented roster in spite of this pick. I can only hope to be completely wrong about this kid.

There is a greater likelihood you are more wrong than right about this pick based on who we have at GM who we have at HC and where we selected him. We don't err up front often and we said we would build this team in the trenches OL and front 7. Our 1st pick went in addressing that. This team has been built ever since Nolan with a very stout DL and LB core. Our front 7 has been our hallmark for nearly a decade now. I wanted Marcus Peters but a strong front 7 negates the run and allows us to drop 7 and sometimes 8 men in coverage. In our defense a strong DL is far more important than any shutdown corner. This is the way we play so we need to view this pick in terms of our team and not in terms of the talent available at our pick that may have not had the long term impact Aric could potentially. We got a guy we coveted and we got 2 more picks.