Vance "Beastmode" McDonald Thread

Originally posted by father49er:

He might be great at certain curated metrics, but he ranks 31st in the league based on productivity:

2016 TE stats

This is based of rec? How does this determine how productive some is? I mean Reed has 81 targets vs Vance who has 41.

How about you look at what he does when he actually gets the ball? 17.4 yer catch is insane for a TE and only behind Gronk.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Player --- Rec --- Yds --- Avg --- TD
Jordan Reed: 59 -- 630 --- 10.7 --- 5

And here are McDonald's last 45 receptions vs. Reed's 59 to date:

Vance McDonald: 45 --- 660 --- 17.4 --- 7

Point? McDonald is producing more with less. Give him an extra 14 receptions and he'd be in the top three of production on this TE list right now.

The reception leader has 59 (Jordan Reed/Vance has only 22) to date and the leader in yards is Greg Olsen @ 790, TD's is Delanie Walker with 6, leader in average @ 21.6 is Rob Gronkowski (only 25 receptions/Vance has only 22).

This

Give him more receptions and he'd be better? The single biggest measure of a receiver is how often they get open and catch the ball. Vance is athletic and has some strengths, but other guys are producing more receptions because they are better than him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by father49er:
He might be great at certain curated metrics, but he ranks 31st in the league based on productivity:

2016 TE stats

This is based of rec? How does this determine how productive some is? I mean Reed has 81 targets vs Vance who has 41.

How about you look at what he does when he actually gets the ball? 17.4 yer catch is insane for a TE and only behind Gronk.

So to put this into perspective.

With equal receptions (utilization):
Jordan Reed: 59 --- 630 --- 10.7 --- 5
Vance McDonald: 59 --- 807 --- 14.2 --- 7 (actual production; he only has a career 62 receptions)

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Give him more receptions and he'd be better? The single biggest measure of a receiver is how often they get open and catch the ball. Vance is athletic and has some strengths, but other guys are producing more receptions because they are better than him.

...utilized more. Completely different offensive systems until the last 9 games last year.

You are having a career year here in your fourth year in the NFL. What has been working for you?

VM: "I really, to me, just all came down to having an opportunity."

Bingo!

The dude has always been a mismatch...open all the time and the easiest throw for a QB in the middle of the field. FEED THE BEAST and keep feeding him ala Reed and others. It sounds like Modkins is down for that now too.

See more at: http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/101011-vance-mcdonald-team-gotten-closer-during-1-10-season/#sthash.tdUBDeSD.dpuf

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:

Give him more receptions and he'd be better? The single biggest measure of a receiver is how often they get open and catch the ball. Vance is athletic and has some strengths, but other guys are producing more receptions because they are better than him.

Game plain is part of it as well...Washington and NE for example use their TEs. So you telling me Vance doesn't get open? Because he sure looks like he does to me on a steady basis. I think a HUGE measure when looking at a pass catcher is what they do when they get the ball and 17.4 yards per catch for a TE is insane (2nd to Gronk currently)...he's also not dropping the ball like he was in the past.

Originally posted by NCommand:

So to put this into perspective.

With equal receptions (utilization):
Jordan Reed: 59 --- 630 --- 10.7 --- 5
Vance McDonald: 59 --- 807 --- 14.2 --- 7 (actual production; he only has a career 62 receptions)

Yup Reed has double the targets compared to Vance right now, like Vance said it's all about opportunity...I do not want us to pass up on him this off season, we have the cash. In fact I'm clueless as to why they aren't working on a deal as we speak? 4 yrs $22 million works for me, he still has time to cash in again and gets a fair contract from the team that drafted and developed him

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

So to put this into perspective.

With equal receptions (utilization):
Jordan Reed: 59 --- 630 --- 10.7 --- 5
Vance McDonald: 59 --- 807 --- 14.2 --- 7 (actual production; he only has a career 62 receptions)

Yup Reed has double the targets compared to Vance right now, like Vance said it's all about opportunity...I do not want us to pass up on him this off season, we have the cash. In fact I'm clueless as to why they aren't working on a deal as we speak? 4 yrs $22 million works for me, he still has time to cash in again and gets a fair contract from the team that drafted and developed him

This. Baalke had no problem extending Carradine who showed a small bit of flash during preseason but has disappeared since. Can we extend somebody who has shown some actual consistent progress?

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So to put this into perspective.

With equal receptions (utilization):
Jordan Reed: 59 --- 630 --- 10.7 --- 5
Vance McDonald: 59 --- 807 --- 14.2 --- 7 (actual production; he only has a career 62 receptions)

Yup Reed has double the targets compared to Vance right now, like Vance said it's all about opportunity...I do not want us to pass up on him this off season, we have the cash. In fact I'm clueless as to why they aren't working on a deal as we speak? 4 yrs $22 million works for me, he still has time to cash in again and gets a fair contract from the team that drafted and developed him

This. Baalke had no problem extending Carradine who showed a small bit of flash during preseason but has disappeared since. Can we extend somebody who has shown some actual consistent progress?

Yes, please!

Originally posted by Willisfn4life:

This. Baalke had no problem extending Carradine who showed a small bit of flash during preseason but has disappeared since. Can we extend somebody who has shown some actual consistent progress?

For real....for the love of god extend someone worth getting a extension

Originally posted by SammyFrancisco:
Give him more receptions and he'd be better? The single biggest measure of a receiver is how often they get open and catch the ball. Vance is athletic and has some strengths, but other guys are producing more receptions because they are better than him.

This.

Look, I like that Vance is starting to produce and he has some big time talent. I'm in favor of extending him to a reasonable deal, but we can't just take his stats and inflate them to what we'd like it to be.

Let's compare Vance's career numbers to another guy that flashes, like Ladarius Green:

Vance McDonald
62 catches
857 yards
54.4% catch rate
13.8 average
7 TDs

Ladarius Green
82 catches
1184 yards
62.5% catch rate
14.4 average
7 TDs

Anybody think Ladarius Green would be just as good as Jordan Reed if he only got more targets? No, of course not. It doesn't work that way. Hypothetical production means little. The better players produce more, period. Reed has more career production than both these guys combined, to go along with a 75.5% catch rate. Watching him play, he's one of the more fluid, natural pass catching Tight Ends in the league. Aside from the injury issues, that's what I want in a TE. Reliable, consistent production.

Vance really isn't a "pass catching" type of TE... he's pretty fast, but not fluid.. he's not very athletic and DOES NOT strike fear to anyone when you line him up like the way Gonzo, Gates, and even Seattle's TE (ex-Saints)..

Vance isn't even in the caliber of a Jason Witten or then Colts (Clark).. Vance is more like Anthony Fasano..

it would be nice to see him comeback for reasonable amount, but by no means, he should be a PRIORITY..

Originally posted by 9moon:
Vance really isn't a "pass catching" type of TE... he's pretty fast, but not fluid.. he's not very athletic and DOES NOT strike fear to anyone when you line him up like the way Gonzo, Gates, and even Seattle's TE (ex-Saints)..

Vance isn't even in the caliber of a Jason Witten or then Colts (Clark).. Vance is more like Anthony Fasano..

it would be nice to see him comeback for reasonable amount, but by no means, he should be a PRIORITY..

this. he does what a TE is supposed to do and nothing more.

Anthony Fasano and he's not athletic moon... really?

Hi chaZzz.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

So to put this into perspective.

With equal receptions (utilization):
Jordan Reed: 59 --- 630 --- 10.7 --- 5
Vance McDonald: 59 --- 807 --- 14.2 --- 7 (actual production; he only has a career 62 receptions)

Yup Reed has double the targets compared to Vance right now, like Vance said it's all about opportunity...I do not want us to pass up on him this off season, we have the cash. In fact I'm clueless as to why they aren't working on a deal as we speak? 4 yrs $22 million works for me, he still has time to cash in again and gets a fair contract from the team that drafted and developed him

Vance is putting up back up TE numbers as a starting TE and $5.5 mil is for a lot of promise. Should have just kept Delanie

Originally posted by blizzuntz:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
So to put this into perspective.

With equal receptions (utilization):
Jordan Reed: 59 --- 630 --- 10.7 --- 5
Vance McDonald: 59 --- 807 --- 14.2 --- 7 (actual production; he only has a career 62 receptions)

Yup Reed has double the targets compared to Vance right now, like Vance said it's all about opportunity...I do not want us to pass up on him this off season, we have the cash. In fact I'm clueless as to why they aren't working on a deal as we speak? 4 yrs $22 million works for me, he still has time to cash in again and gets a fair contract from the team that drafted and developed him

Vance is putting up back up TE numbers as a starting TE and $5.5 mil is for a lot of promise. Should have just kept Delanie

Deep Thoughts there brother.