Vernon Davis

"keep cully on the team he's not that bad" "trade vernon he's slimy in interviews"

Originally posted by Rascal:

Originally posted by hohbie:
Fitz also makes about the same as Johnson so there's at least two cases. I wont disagree with you that Wallace is massively overpaid. He definitely is, but desperate teams pay desperate money for players sometimes and Wallace hit it at the right time.

I am not even sure if we are debating each other here. Are you debating that the market is stupid for undervaluing TEs? If that's the case, then I am not going to debate that with you. I think TEs are probably undervalued in general. What I am trying to get across is that Vernon Davis as a TE is being paid perfectly fine according to the market. You can say the market is wrong, and you may be right, but it is what it is and Davis is perfectly in range.

In the NFL market today comparing WRs to TEs is like comparing CBs to LBs. Just a different ball game, both play coverage but one is paid a heck of a lot more. Which is why I brought up Kaep and other QBs. You can only look at people of the same position when comparing their pay.

What we agree on is TEs are undervalued and Vernon is not underpaid as a TE. However, that is when we part ways. You are saying you don't care how well Vernon performs as long as he wears the TE label he is not underpaid. What I am saying is remuneration should be based on performance and production i.e. merit as opposed to position. There is no black and white rule that says a TE cannot be paid WR money if his production means enough for a given team. And I would argue 13 out of a total of 21 passing TDs, that is close to 62% of the entire team's passing TDs is without a doubt critical to the 9ers' success.

You mentioned RBs being underpaid even if they contribute a fair amount of TDs. Well, they are underpaid, but that is not to say teams are not willing to pay beyond the so-called RB pay bracket if the player's production is critical to the team's success. Case in point, Adrian Peterson, guess how much he is on ? $13.7 mil !! That is significantly more than the RB franchise tag amount of $9.54 mil (even higher than the TE franchise tag amount of $7.035 mil). Like I said, just you watch, Jimmy Graham will easily make more than the franchise tag amount and indeed WR money when he finally becomes a free agent, be it by the Saints or any other team in the market.

i understand yor argument but Adrian Peterson is considered by most the best rb in the game and the only bright spot on the Vikings. therefore he had all the leverage in the world to command his salary. leverage is key in any negotiation and teams that are perennial losers don't have very much and tend to over pay to keep their stars or lure other teams stars. As far as Jimmy Graham goes he can play out the tag and test free agency but most likely the highest bidders would yet again be lower teir teams. The best teams in the league like the 49ers have stacked rosters and compete yearly for the trophy. They also don't have tons of cash o throw around. That is leverage when negotiating with their players and free agents. Hell Jimmy can get mike Wallace numbers but it will probably come from a team in a similar situation and the dolphins

Originally posted by lucky_49:

"keep cully on the team he's not that bad" "trade vernon he's slimy in interviews"

Did that straw man go down easily, or did he put up a fight?

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hopefully he gets a deal done, him and Boone. We need both!!!

We dont NEED boone.

Martin will win the Center Job. Kilgore could play for Boone. Next season it will be Brandon Thomas.

And dont count Looney out.

So I guess you think plug-n-play at the Guard position is just that easy right?? But let's see if the 9ers agree with you.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

So I guess you think plug-n-play at the Guard position is just that easy right?? But let's see if the 9ers agree with you.

Having a very good LT RT and C makes a G job easier but that G still must possess the necessary skill and ability to perform at this level. All G are not equal but the same applies to positions on a football team. Like you said, we will see

Originally posted by Rascal:
What we agree on is TEs are undervalued and Vernon is not underpaid as a TE. However, that is when we part ways. You are saying you don't care how well Vernon performs as long as he wears the TE label he is not underpaid. What I am saying is remuneration should be based on performance and production i.e. merit as opposed to position. There is no black and white rule that says a TE cannot be paid WR money if his production means enough for a given team. And I would argue 13 out of a total of 21 passing TDs, that is close to 62% of the entire team's passing TDs is without a doubt critical to the 9ers' success.

You mentioned RBs being underpaid even if they contribute a fair amount of TDs. Well, they are underpaid, but that is not to say teams are not willing to pay beyond the so-called RB pay bracket if the player's production is critical to the team's success. Case in point, Adrian Peterson, guess how much he is on ? $13.7 mil !! That is significantly more than the RB franchise tag amount of $9.54 mil (even higher than the TE franchise tag amount of $7.035 mil). Like I said, just you watch, Jimmy Graham will easily make more than the franchise tag amount and indeed WR money when he finally becomes a free agent, be it by the Saints or any other team in the market.

I understand but as a team why would we be the first ones to break that mold when we can save money on a good player? Graham will get paid and should be paid a few million more a year than Davis, because he is the best TE. The best at their position usually is paid a few million more than the next guy. Even if Graham gets $10 mil per year, Davis is still fine at his spot of $7 mil per year average (although it was front loaded so his salary these last two years is less than 7).

Originally posted by hohbie:
I understand but as a team why would we be the first ones to break that mold when we can save money on a good player? Graham will get paid and should be paid a few million more a year than Davis, because he is the best TE. The best at their position usually is paid a few million more than the next guy. Even if Graham gets $10 mil per year, Davis is still fine at his spot of $7 mil per year average (although it was front loaded so his salary these last two years is less than 7).

For me, is all about a matter of principle, you could argue Vernon is supposed to see through his contract, but he is not unreasonable to say he is worth more or underpaid. Like I mentioned before, if Baalke had drafted some decent WRs before, may be Vernon wouldn't have scored 13 TDs and we wouldn't be discussing this. But, facts are facts, the guy balled out and we even played him as a wideout when we lined him out wide in numerous occasions last season. One could put in an argument Vernon is more like a hybrid TE/WR.

And by the way, I wouldn't necessarily call Jimmy Graham the best TE in football. Vernon's skill set is very different and unique. The guy ran a 4.38 40. He is lightning fast, the fastest TE in the league and he is even faster than a good number of WRs. The Saints is a passing team, they threw for over 4,900 yards last season, that is almost 2,000 yards more than us and yet Graham only scored 16 TDs, 3 more than Vernon. I would argue if Kap had thrown for 4,900 yards, Vernon would have easily scored at least 16 TDs if not more. And don't forget, it is a well known fact that Graham can't block. However, Graham will get paid cos he can't get franchise-tagged forever and he is younger than Vernon. However, like I said, don't forget the NFLPA is fighting for Graham's case to be tagged as a WR instead. If Vernon wants more money, he has to do it now cos when his contract expires in 2 years time he will be 32.

Originally posted by cciowa:
1 gore wanted more money,, we say,, yes pay the man
2 ck wants more money, we say, yes pay the man
3 vernon did not hold out, said he will attend camp but may be looking for an extension or some more money,, all of a sudden we are told,
he is soft, he can not catch, he jumps people instead of running over them(while many of you at the time he was jumping people to get into the f**king end zone were all f**king ooohing and aahhing), he struggles(like many other players and coaches do) vs seattle, he is GOD FORBID, awkward in interviews, he ran over mayos penis with a steamroller( ok i made that up) and now we should trade him. my head hurts

oh and to piggy back onto what cc said,, how can he forget aldon smith. Aldon has multiple off field issues(whether real or made up by police and airport people like some think),,, most say,, keep him, pay him, he can make plays, he is a difference maker on defense, he creates alot of mis matches for the other team, he is a great locker room guy and team mates love him... well vernon does that same thing on offense so why the double standard? aldon is just a black defensive version of vernon i guess once you get the mob mentality of the zone lathered up into a frenzy nothing can stop them

Originally posted by lucky_49:
"keep cully on the team he's not that bad" "trade vernon he's slimy in interviews"

sums it up well

I hope VD finishes his playing career here and so obviously he needs an extension at some point, but his timing on this is not the best. Of course he did say a future contract ext. was generally discussed before end of last season and there's been no follow-up to it since then, so he says "just waiting to hear back from the team." A moron could figure out why he's absent from voluntary OTAs. I'm sure his business ventures require attention but he still has time to participate with the team.

Originally posted by Kolohe:

Originally posted by JimHarbaugh:

Originally posted by Kolohe:
Hopefully he gets a deal done, him and Boone. We need both!!!

We dont NEED boone.

Martin will win the Center Job. Kilgore could play for Boone. Next season it will be Brandon Thomas.

And dont count Looney out.

So I guess you think plug-n-play at the Guard position is just that easy right?? But let's see if the 9ers agree with you.

Martin never played Center and he sucks by the way
Boone is a beast, guys like him dont come around often
Kilgore is way unproven

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Martin never played Center and he sucks by the way
Boone is a beast, guys like him dont come around often
Kilgore is way unproven

Marcus Martin not Jonathan

He's 30 years old so I could why he would want the extension now that way he's not trying to get a new contract on the downhill of his career. I'd love nothing more for him to retire as a Niner and I'm really going to leave it that.

I really don't care about the financial side of running the organization. Let Marathe/ Balke handle that.

As far as Boone goes I really think we're going to have to end up picking between him and Iupati.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
He's 30 years old so I could why he would want the extension now that way he's not trying to get a new contract on the downhill of his career. I'd love nothing more for him to retire as a Niner and I'm really going to leave it that.

I really don't care about the financial side of running the organization. Let Marathe/ Balke handle that.

As far as Boone goes I really think we're going to have to end up picking between him and Iupati.

Sign him now!!!!!! I hate the idea of him ending his career with Fitzgerald and the Cards or Carroll and the Hawks!!

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Dude is turning T.O.