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Originally posted by mutant-man49:
Where are the J.J. Watt comparisons like Joey was receiving when he came out? I know Nick is smaller compared to J.J. but weren't his combine results more comparable to JJ than Joey's?
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Originally posted by genus49:Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:If the Niners take Bosa I'm going to be pissed. I'm now convinced he'll be a bust relative to his expectations.
...why?
I've watch a decent amount of film on this guy now.
Here is my take: He's basically a one trick pony (bullrush, dip with good technique), that gets completely neutralized against bigger, strong OTs with equal technical skill. This means, as stated in one draft video, he might have sacks in bunches against subpar talent, but will all but disappear against the better NFL tackles. He could end up with double digit sacks, but they will mostly be against the Gary Gilliams of the NFL world. If we are using the second overall pick, I'm looking for well rounded rushers that can beat you multiple ways depending on the opponents strength.
There are plenty of guys from every position that look great in college, put up big numbers, but are just okay in the NFL. That's because the talent level is totally inconsistent at that level. In the NFL, most of your opponents will be better than anyone you faced in college.
Originally posted by flynhayn15:Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Originally posted by genus49:Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:If the Niners take Bosa I'm going to be pissed. I'm now convinced he'll be a bust relative to his expectations.
...why?
I've watch a decent amount of film on this guy now.
Here is my take: He's basically a one trick pony (bullrush, dip with good technique), that gets completely neutralized against bigger, strong OTs with equal technical skill. This means, as stated in one draft video, he might have sacks in bunches against subpar talent, but will all but disappear against the better NFL tackles. He could end up with double digit sacks, but they will mostly be against the Gary Gilliams of the NFL world. If we are using the second overall pick, I'm looking for well rounded rushers that can beat you multiple ways depending on the opponents strength.
There are plenty of guys from every position that look great in college, put up big numbers, but are just okay in the NFL. That's because the talent level is totally inconsistent at that level. In the NFL, most of your opponents will be better than anyone you faced in college.
It so funny how some people argue that he hardly played in college so we don't know if he can produce. Yet some act like that even with the lack of sample size that he still has no room for improvement.
Here is a few things you haven't considered.
1. There are more bad tackles than good ones in the NFL.
2. If teams best tackle is on Bosa, the he won't be blocking Ford. There are very few teams with two good tackles.
3. With his technique and lower body strength, I'm sure that he will still win a few plays a game even with the All pro tackles.
4. What make you think if the elite tackles can shut down Bosa that they won't be able to shut down EVERY edge rusher in this draft?
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:No, not just the Oklahoma game. Just random youtube/google stuff.
I did not mention "two things," the bullrush-dip is the same move.
For me its very simple. He doesn't have elite strength, size or speed. He has great technique and good bend. I think most of that will get neutralized against the better tackles in the NFL. I expect his short arms to be a significant disadvantage at the next level based on his playing style.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:Maybe "bullrush" is the wrong term. I just mean he gets in their chest and bends from their. I didn't mean bullrush in the sense he puts the OT on skates.
As far as Aldon, he had deceptive functional strength (Think Jerry Rice game speed). He didn't need to be fast because he could engage and control the tackle with his long arms before they even laid a hand on him. Shoot he could probably grab a glass of gator from the opponents side line while sitting on the team bench with the length of his levers.
Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:I've watch a decent amount of film on this guy now.
Here is my take: He's basically a one trick pony (bullrush, dip with good technique), that gets completely neutralized against bigger, strong OTs with equal technical skill. This means, as stated in one draft video, he might have sacks in bunches against subpar talent, but will all but disappear against the better NFL tackles. He could end up with double digit sacks, but they will mostly be against the Gary Gilliams of the NFL world. If we are using the second overall pick, I'm looking for well rounded rushers that can beat you multiple ways depending on the opponents strength.
There are plenty of guys from every position that look great in college, put up big numbers, but are just okay in the NFL. That's because the talent level is totally inconsistent at that level. In the NFL, most of your opponents will be better than anyone you faced in college.
So Superman is Nick Bosa's kryptonite..Originally posted by adrianlesnar:Big, fast, strong, and long tackles with good technique are bosa's unique kryptonite apparently
Originally posted by marc1_007:Bosa is the most Interesting player I have evaluated because based on the hype he was getting, without watching a full game tape and depending on highlights alone, he looked beastly, but then again, anyone can look good on highlights, but you have to take in to account the bloodlines, and the fact that Joey is an elite pass rusher in the NFL and you have to imagine that during the offseason, the two of them are always working out together (iron sharpens iron).
I was always going to do my own evaluation obviously but I went along with the buzz he was receiving and was really hoping to get that 1st pick, but when we didn't and it was time to try to guess who the Niners were going to take because surely the Cardinals were going to take Bosa, I started reading up on the other prospects and the two names that kept popping up were Quinnen Williams and Josh Allen.
Not many had a bad word to say about Quinnen but surely we were not going to take another DT so the only other logical choice was Allen, the only problem was that as many people were praising him, there was quite a few that were equally critical. So ss the bowl games were coming around, I decided that it was time to start my own evaluation. Having done Allen and Quinnen, I now turned to Bosa.
Quite frankly I don't get the hype, a term I always hear is polished and that he is good with his hands, but what I see is dip and a hand swipe or he counters to the inside with a hand swipe, he has got a very good bull rush, but outside of that, I am still trying to figure what makes him so special, he is definitely good at setting the edge but so is Solomon Thomas.
In watching gametape, I watched mainly the games against superior teams like Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, Oklahoma, all in 2017 as he decided that he was going to stand on his limited game tape in 2018 against the likes of TCU, Oregon State and Rutgers and leave School early after a core injury as he did not want to risk his position in the draft. I also noticed that in 2017, he was on a rotation with Tyquan Lewis and Sam Hubbard and thats where I want to start.
I am very concerned that he was a rotational player because he was always coming in fresh, In 2017, he got 8.5 sacks, Hubbard 7 and Lewis 7, so obviously the rotation worked similar to Dante Fowler getting 8 sacks in a rotational role in 2017 for the Jaguars. With Lewis and Hubbard getting drafted in 2018, it was finally a chance to see Bosa in a starting role with less rotation and he started like a freight train albeit against a bunch of scrubs, but then he got his injury and shut himself down, I am not one to be critical about a player that makes a decision for himself and his family but based on his body of work in 2017, it was not enough for him to be held in the high regard he is held in. For me there is nothing to suggest that he is not able to play starter minutes but if his body breaks down when he does isn't that something we should worry about?
The Oklahoma game was very telling in that he was quite easily controlled by the tackles, and a lot has been made about his short arms and rightly so because his favourite move is the dip with the arm swipe and if he does not have enough speed to get to the outside of a tackle to be able to use his arm swipe to get past him, if they get their longer arms on him first as Orlando Brown and Bobby Evans showed, then he is easily controlled.
I also do not see a player in Bosa that is a number 1 overall or number 2 in our case, in fact in the Penn State game, against the same Tackles, Josh Allen looked more impressive, not only did he stuff the stats sheet, but he actually drew more double teams and had more qb pressures, and in the Iowa, game he was getting bottled up until his ejection, there was a stunt that he ran that needs to be seen to be believed in how slow he looked with a clear path to the qb, it looked like he was running in quicksand. He was okay in the Michigan game and slightly better in the Wisconsin game.
To put it bluntly, I'm all in on Quinnen Williams, and if he is gone or if the niners want to take an edge rusher, because of the number of interior rushers they have, I'll go Allen all day before Bosa, I am not as confident in Bosa as I was, after watching him as I feel that his best tape were all against weaker opponent, and If I get it wrong, I will happily hold my hands up.
BTW, I thought Joey was an elite prospect as well, and he has shown his qualities in the NFL as well, but as a Big End at 280+lbs and I don't believe, Nick will be as good as Joey as a big end and for me he is definitely not a Leo in the scheme, he is too slow. Think, Bruce, Irvin, Ngakoue, Ingram, that play that Seahawks system, so I believe Shanahan and Lynch when they say that Ford is the Leo. We don't need to go into his splits or cone scores because the Leo in this scheme is based on speed and he has not got any, thats why they got Ford.
One last point I want to make is that The Ohio state defensive line is always stacked with quality players, as you saw in 2017 Bosa had 8.5 sacks, Lewis had 7 and Hubbard had 7, and this year when Bosa played only 3 games, Dremont Jones had 8.5 and Chase Young had 9.5, so that should erase any illusion that the other players are padding up their numbers because all the offensive attention is on gameplanning Bosa.
Quite simply put , If you watch the game tape against decent opposition, he does not look as elite as he has been advertised and considering I was a self proclaimed Bosa fan in the beginning, I don't believe he is the best player in this draft class, let alone the best edge rusher.
Originally posted by NYniner85:Originally posted by marc1_007:Bosa is the most Interesting player I have evaluated because based on the hype he was getting, without watching a full game tape and depending on highlights alone, he looked beastly, but then again, anyone can look good on highlights, but you have to take in to account the bloodlines, and the fact that Joey is an elite pass rusher in the NFL and you have to imagine that during the offseason, the two of them are always working out together (iron sharpens iron).
I was always going to do my own evaluation obviously but I went along with the buzz he was receiving and was really hoping to get that 1st pick, but when we didn't and it was time to try to guess who the Niners were going to take because surely the Cardinals were going to take Bosa, I started reading up on the other prospects and the two names that kept popping up were Quinnen Williams and Josh Allen.
Not many had a bad word to say about Quinnen but surely we were not going to take another DT so the only other logical choice was Allen, the only problem was that as many people were praising him, there was quite a few that were equally critical. So ss the bowl games were coming around, I decided that it was time to start my own evaluation. Having done Allen and Quinnen, I now turned to Bosa.
Quite frankly I don't get the hype, a term I always hear is polished and that he is good with his hands, but what I see is dip and a hand swipe or he counters to the inside with a hand swipe, he has got a very good bull rush, but outside of that, I am still trying to figure what makes him so special, he is definitely good at setting the edge but so is Solomon Thomas.
In watching gametape, I watched mainly the games against superior teams like Iowa, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn State, Oklahoma, all in 2017 as he decided that he was going to stand on his limited game tape in 2018 against the likes of TCU, Oregon State and Rutgers and leave School early after a core injury as he did not want to risk his position in the draft. I also noticed that in 2017, he was on a rotation with Tyquan Lewis and Sam Hubbard and thats where I want to start.
I am very concerned that he was a rotational player because he was always coming in fresh, In 2017, he got 8.5 sacks, Hubbard 7 and Lewis 7, so obviously the rotation worked similar to Dante Fowler getting 8 sacks in a rotational role in 2017 for the Jaguars. With Lewis and Hubbard getting drafted in 2018, it was finally a chance to see Bosa in a starting role with less rotation and he started like a freight train albeit against a bunch of scrubs, but then he got his injury and shut himself down, I am not one to be critical about a player that makes a decision for himself and his family but based on his body of work in 2017, it was not enough for him to be held in the high regard he is held in. For me there is nothing to suggest that he is not able to play starter minutes but if his body breaks down when he does isn't that something we should worry about?
The Oklahoma game was very telling in that he was quite easily controlled by the tackles, and a lot has been made about his short arms and rightly so because his favourite move is the dip with the arm swipe and if he does not have enough speed to get to the outside of a tackle to be able to use his arm swipe to get past him, if they get their longer arms on him first as Orlando Brown and Bobby Evans showed, then he is easily controlled.
I also do not see a player in Bosa that is a number 1 overall or number 2 in our case, in fact in the Penn State game, against the same Tackles, Josh Allen looked more impressive, not only did he stuff the stats sheet, but he actually drew more double teams and had more qb pressures, and in the Iowa, game he was getting bottled up until his ejection, there was a stunt that he ran that needs to be seen to be believed in how slow he looked with a clear path to the qb, it looked like he was running in quicksand. He was okay in the Michigan game and slightly better in the Wisconsin game.
To put it bluntly, I'm all in on Quinnen Williams, and if he is gone or if the niners want to take an edge rusher, because of the number of interior rushers they have, I'll go Allen all day before Bosa, I am not as confident in Bosa as I was, after watching him as I feel that his best tape were all against weaker opponent, and If I get it wrong, I will happily hold my hands up.
BTW, I thought Joey was an elite prospect as well, and he has shown his qualities in the NFL as well, but as a Big End at 280+lbs and I don't believe, Nick will be as good as Joey as a big end and for me he is definitely not a Leo in the scheme, he is too slow. Think, Bruce, Irvin, Ngakoue, Ingram, that play that Seahawks system, so I believe Shanahan and Lynch when they say that Ford is the Leo. We don't need to go into his splits or cone scores because the Leo in this scheme is based on speed and he has not got any, thats why they got Ford.
One last point I want to make is that The Ohio state defensive line is always stacked with quality players, as you saw in 2017 Bosa had 8.5 sacks, Lewis had 7 and Hubbard had 7, and this year when Bosa played only 3 games, Dremont Jones had 8.5 and Chase Young had 9.5, so that should erase any illusion that the other players are padding up their numbers because all the offensive attention is on gameplanning Bosa.
Quite simply put , If you watch the game tape against decent opposition, he does not look as elite as he has been advertised and considering I was a self proclaimed Bosa fan in the beginning, I don't believe he is the best player in this draft class, let alone the best edge rusher.
K
Originally posted by rathman4481:
The cool thing about drafting bosa is that he can practice against mcglinchey who has 34 inch arms.
Oh and Staley. Iron sharpens iron.
Originally posted by babarvaart:Originally posted by rathman4481:The cool thing about drafting bosa is that he can practice against mcglinchey who has 34 inch arms.
Oh and Staley. Iron sharpens iron.
Staley has t rex arms