Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, DE/OLB, Oklahoma

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

I decided to go back and watch some cut ups of OO & Harold Landry, let me start by saying that I actually think Landry was a better pass rusher this year than last, even though the production says otherwise, seemed to have more of a plan.

That said, and I think I may be the only person with this opinion, I actually think OO is the better player.

He has more moves, and sets up OL better, his hands are better, and though he doesn't quite have Landry's bend, it's pretty damn good.

OO seems to play off balance a little more which I'd like him to work on. Although it's low on my list OO is also IMO the better run defender, they both have their moments making nice plays, but OO is washed out less frequently and sets a better edge.

Landry will go a full round higher due to a couple of inches of height, but I think if they have similar team situations OO will be the better pro.

Want BOTH!

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

So the way I'm seeing this in my head (lol), Roquon Smith at 9, then package 59 and 74 (maybe receive a 4th in return) to get higher up in the 2nd an ensure we can draft OO. Hoping that Teller is still there at pick 70. I'd also double dip at pass rusher and would still take Jeff Holland. Between Attachou, Okoronkwo, Holland, and Marsh, someone should emerge.

That's the hope, but odds are you will wind up with an all pro edge rusher if you move up to the higher picks in the first round 5-7th pick range. Then again a guy like Charles Haley was a 4rth rounder, so who knows. I like the idea of double dipping for an edge rusher. It's a bit of an overkill, but I think that position deserves that kind of draft capital. Jimmy gives us the dimension where we can get ahead and teams have to pass to catch up.

Very true, but that argument holds for most positions (moving up). From a talent perspective for both the short and longterm, the team looks better to me with Smith, OO, Teller, and Holland (in the 3rd or 4th), than with the edge rushers projected to go in the first + any day 2 or 3 linebacker and the other players mentioned. I only wish we could move down and still pick up Smith.

As much as I loved Willis and Bowman in their prime, I think the defense under Fangio was too linebacker-centric in an age of pass-happy offenses. How many times did Brooks make an incredible tackle only to be called back because it what an *illegal hit?*

No, the way to handle defenses these days is to prevent the reciever from ever catching the ball in the first place. That means pass rush and DB's. I think you can get by nowadays with a Brock Coyle and Malcom Smith on the inside because they won't be playing all downs. You're going to be playing nickel 70% of the time, and Reuben switches to MLB in those situatons. You can get a fast cover midde linebacker in the lower rounds (depth for Reuben when he's suspended), but you need that elite edge rusher to pressure and hurry the QB. Once the reciever catches the pass, it's no longer football they way the rules have it, it's basketball. (Can't hit defenseless player, can't lead with head, etc... *ridiculous* I know, but that's where the NFL is heading.)

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
So the way I'm seeing this in my head (lol), Roquon Smith at 9, then package 59 and 74 (maybe receive a 4th in return) to get higher up in the 2nd an ensure we can draft OO. Hoping that Teller is still there at pick 70. I'd also double dip at pass rusher and would still take Jeff Holland. Between Attachou, Okoronkwo, Holland, and Marsh, someone should emerge.

That's the hope, but odds are you will wind up with an all pro edge rusher if you move up to the higher picks in the first round 5-7th pick range. Then again a guy like Charles Haley was a 4rth rounder, so who knows. I like the idea of double dipping for an edge rusher. It's a bit of an overkill, but I think that position deserves that kind of draft capital. Jimmy gives us the dimension where we can get ahead and teams have to pass to catch up.

Very true, but that argument holds for most positions (moving up). From a talent perspective for both the short and longterm, the team looks better to me with Smith, OO, Teller, and Holland (in the 3rd or 4th), than with the edge rushers projected to go in the first + any day 2 or 3 linebacker and the other players mentioned. I only wish we could move down and still pick up Smith.

As much as I loved Willis and Bowman in their prime, I think the defense under Fangio was too linebacker-centric in an age of pass-happy offenses. How many times did Brooks make an incredible tackle only to be called back because it what an *illegal hit?*

No, the way to handle defenses these days is to prevent the reciever from ever catching the ball in the first place. That means pass rush and DB's. I think you can get by nowadays with a Brock Coyle and Malcom Smith on the inside because they won't be playing all downs. You're going to be playing nickel 70% of the time, and Reuben switches to MLB in those situatons. You can get a fast cover midde linebacker in the lower rounds (depth for Reuben when he's suspended), but you need that elite edge rusher to pressure and hurry the QB. Once the reciever catches the pass, it's no longer football they way the rules have it, it's basketball. (Can't hit defenseless player, can't lead with head, etc... *ridiculous* I know, but that's where the NFL is heading.)

We can do both. Along with Smith, I'm looking for us to double dip at pass rusher with Holland and Orokonkwo. Or we could go with OO and ride this season out with him Marsh, and Attachou. Use the other pick on a DB. With how the NFL if changing, it's the reason why linebackers like Roquan Smith's value have increased. Also, considering we have to face Todd Gurley twice a year, we will need some top notch linebackers.

Originally posted by English:

Want BOTH!

I wouldn't be upset at both. That'd be addressing a major need in a major way.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by English:

Want BOTH!

I wouldn't be upset at both. That'd be addressing a major need in a major way.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by English:

Want BOTH!

I wouldn't be upset at both. That'd be addressing a major need in a major way.

If we took both, do you think there's a chance that OO could end up moving to SAM? Or would we keep both at LEO and just let them rotate to stay fresh?

To me either outcome would be nice. I always like when there's a committee approach to pass rushing. Especially later in games when o line are worn down and D linemen are still flying around. I feel like Giants did a good job with that back when the won the SB.

Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:

If we took both, do you think there's a chance that OO could end up moving to SAM? Or would we keep both at LEO and just let them rotate to stay fresh?

To me either outcome would be nice. I always like when there's a committee approach to pass rushing. Especially later in games when o line are worn down and D linemen are still flying around. I feel like Giants did a good job with that back when the won the SB.

OO could play Sam. Their best use would be bookending on passing downs. I still think it would be a lot of draft capital, but I could certainly live with it.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
So the way I'm seeing this in my head (lol), Roquon Smith at 9, then package 59 and 74 (maybe receive a 4th in return) to get higher up in the 2nd an ensure we can draft OO. Hoping that Teller is still there at pick 70. I'd also double dip at pass rusher and would still take Jeff Holland. Between Attachou, Okoronkwo, Holland, and Marsh, someone should emerge.

That's the hope, but odds are you will wind up with an all pro edge rusher if you move up to the higher picks in the first round 5-7th pick range. Then again a guy like Charles Haley was a 4rth rounder, so who knows. I like the idea of double dipping for an edge rusher. It's a bit of an overkill, but I think that position deserves that kind of draft capital. Jimmy gives us the dimension where we can get ahead and teams have to pass to catch up.

Very true, but that argument holds for most positions (moving up). From a talent perspective for both the short and longterm, the team looks better to me with Smith, OO, Teller, and Holland (in the 3rd or 4th), than with the edge rushers projected to go in the first + any day 2 or 3 linebacker and the other players mentioned. I only wish we could move down and still pick up Smith.

As much as I loved Willis and Bowman in their prime, I think the defense under Fangio was too linebacker-centric in an age of pass-happy offenses. How many times did Brooks make an incredible tackle only to be called back because it what an *illegal hit?*

No, the way to handle defenses these days is to prevent the reciever from ever catching the ball in the first place. That means pass rush and DB's. I think you can get by nowadays with a Brock Coyle and Malcom Smith on the inside because they won't be playing all downs. You're going to be playing nickel 70% of the time, and Reuben switches to MLB in those situatons. You can get a fast cover midde linebacker in the lower rounds (depth for Reuben when he's suspended), but you need that elite edge rusher to pressure and hurry the QB. Once the reciever catches the pass, it's no longer football they way the rules have it, it's basketball. (Can't hit defenseless player, can't lead with head, etc... *ridiculous* I know, but that's where the NFL is heading.)

We can do both. Along with Smith, I'm looking for us to double dip at pass rusher with Holland and Orokonkwo. Or we could go with OO and ride this season out with him Marsh, and Attachou. Use the other pick on a DB. With how the NFL if changing, it's the reason why linebackers like Roquan Smith's value have increased. Also, considering we have to face Todd Gurley twice a year, we will need some top notch linebackers.

Those aren't bad ideas, and I'm all for double dipping an Edge rusher if we have the draft capital for it. (assuming we might trade down)

Having said that, my preference is to invest a high draft pick for a elite (well as elite as possible in this years mediocre pass rush draft class). We won't be drafting this high again for a couple of years, I hope, with Jimmy manning the offense. The draft experts say that if you draft an edge rusher high in the draft, you have a bigger chance of coming away with a good one than if you pick in the later stages of the draft.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

OO could play Sam. Their best use would be bookending on passing downs. I still think it would be a lot of draft capital, but I could certainly live with it.

This.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

OO could play Sam. Their best use would be bookending on passing downs. I still think it would be a lot of draft capital, but I could certainly live with it.

This.

With Buck & Solly inside

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

I decided to go back and watch some cut ups of OO & Harold Landry, let me start by saying that I actually think Landry was a better pass rusher this year than last, even though the production says otherwise, seemed to have more of a plan.

That said, and I think I may be the only person with this opinion, I actually think OO is the better player.

He has more moves, and sets up OL better, his hands are better, and though he doesn't quite have Landry's bend, it's pretty damn good.

OO seems to play off balance a little more which I'd like him to work on. Although it's low on my list OO is also IMO the better run defender, they both have their moments making nice plays, but OO is washed out less frequently and sets a better edge.

Landry will go a full round higher due to a couple of inches of height, but I think if they have similar team situations OO will be the better pro.

Want BOTH!

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

^ I like this.

Originally posted by TheFunkyChicken:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by English:

Want BOTH!

I wouldn't be upset at both. That'd be addressing a major need in a major way.

If we took both, do you think there's a chance that OO could end up moving to SAM? Or would we keep both at LEO and just let them rotate to stay fresh?

To me either outcome would be nice. I always like when there's a committee approach to pass rushing. Especially later in games when o line are worn down and D linemen are still flying around. I feel like Giants did a good job with that back when the won the SB.

Personally, if we do draft two edge rushers, the lesser talented edge rusher has to be more versatile. I'd let the pre-season play out, and the guy that's not as good at rushing the passer would be tried out at Sam. The guy that's the better edge rusher would stay at edge rusher.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Personally, if we do draft two edge rushers, the lesser talented edge rusher has to be more versatile. I'd let the pre-season play out, and the guy that's not as good at rushing the passer would be tried out at Sam. The guy that's the better edge rusher would stay at edge rusher.

That is true, but how would you know which was going to be the less talented edge rusher, so how would you know which needed to be more versatile?

Take the Bengals for instance, they drafted Jordan Willis a round before Lawson, but Lawson is the better pass rusher.

Bottom line, we need guys who can rush the passer, bring them in, let them compete and worry about the semantics afterwards.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Personally, if we do draft two edge rushers, the lesser talented edge rusher has to be more versatile. I'd let the pre-season play out, and the guy that's not as good at rushing the passer would be tried out at Sam. The guy that's the better edge rusher would stay at edge rusher.

That is true, but how would you know which was going to be the less talented edge rusher, so how would you know which needed to be more versatile?

Take the Bengals for instance, they drafted Jordan Willis a round before Lawson, but Lawson is the better pass rusher.

Bottom line, we need guys who can rush the passer, bring them in, let them compete and worry about the semantics afterwards.

Yup, let them compete and may the best pass rusher start. If we can land Davenport and this guy, assuming we can't get Landry, I think that's as good as getting Chubb. You have two young and athletic pass rushers that the coaching staff can develop. Two vs one should also provide depth. The way the NFL is turning into basketball, and the rules favoring the pass so much -- a 7-4-0 defense (4 linebackers and 7 defensive backs) may now be a real possible defensive call in a 3rd and very long situation.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally, if we do draft two edge rushers, the lesser talented edge rusher has to be more versatile. I'd let the pre-season play out, and the guy that's not as good at rushing the passer would be tried out at Sam. The guy that's the better edge rusher would stay at edge rusher.

That is true, but how would you know which was going to be the less talented edge rusher, so how would you know which needed to be more versatile?

Take the Bengals for instance, they drafted Jordan Willis a round before Lawson, but Lawson is the better pass rusher.

Bottom line, we need guys who can rush the passer, bring them in, let them compete and worry about the semantics afterwards.

Yup, let them compete and may the best pass rusher start. If we can land Davenport and this guy, assuming we can't get Landry, I think that's as good as getting Chubb. You have two young and athletic pass rushers that the coaching staff can develop. Two vs one should also provide depth. The way the NFL is turning into basketball, and the rules favoring the pass so much -- a 7-4-0 defense (4 linebackers and 7 defensive backs) may now be a real possible defensive call in a 3rd and very long situation.

I'd start them both. In sub, they just edge rush. In base, Landry = Leo, and Obo = Sam. We can go bigger on the edges if we have to (Eli/Solly).