The Marcus Davenport Hype Train Is Leaving the Station

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
To be honest, there a lot of people who "follow" the team that aren't reputable at least in my opinion. I do think a lot of the mainstream media is aloof to the 49ers as well.

I think the team will want more out of the pick and will eat my words if they take Landry. If there's good value I think we'll trade out unless Chubb is on the board.

Since this is a Davenport thread I think the team will have Davenport higher than Landry but that's just one mans opinion.

okay...everything I've seen from the LEO prospects they've brought in are similar to Landry as far as height/weight goes. (size was an issue for you I guess)

Saleh has talked about the importance of getting off the field on 3rd down and having that speed around the edge. throw Buck/Thomas inside along with Landry coming around the edge and there you go.

I know the "3 down player" thing is a bugaboo for you...but I've already shown that a guy like Yannick (who's a worse run defender than Landry) and is smaller/less athletic version of Landry had 920 snaps this past yr (only 10 less than K Mack).

it's all about getting to the QB.

we will agree to disagree on who we like...all good!

If you want an edge rusher, Marcus Davenport plays higher than Snoop Dogg. That won't be fixed right away. I'm not taking a guy that struggles to redirect and needs to build up speed. Not top 20.

https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2018/4/4/17199284/the-most-overrated-players-in-the-draft-at-each-position

Originally posted by Heroism:

If you want an edge rusher, Marcus Davenport plays higher than Snoop Dogg. That won't be fixed right away. I'm not taking a guy that struggles to redirect and needs to build up speed. Not top 20.

https://www.boltsfromtheblue.com/2018/4/4/17199284/the-most-overrated-players-in-the-draft-at-each-position

LOL #truthbomb

Originally posted by NYniner85:

okay...everything I've seen from the LEO prospects they've brought in are similar to Landry as far as height/weight goes. (size was an issue for you I guess)

Saleh has talked about the importance of getting off the field on 3rd down and having that speed around the edge. throw Buck/Thomas inside along with Landry coming around the edge and there you go.

I know the "3 down player" thing is a bugaboo for you...but I've already shown that a guy like Yannick (who's a worse run defender than Landry) and is smaller/less athletic version of Landry had 920 snaps this past yr (only 10 less than K Mack).

it's all about getting to the QB.

we will agree to disagree on who we like...all good!

That's a point the Davenport crowd needs to hear. If we thought Davenport was the ideal Leo type for the system you'd see us looking at guys of similar body types as backup plans. Someone like Ade Aruna could be seen as a plan b.

We're hitting up guys who like Yannick for the most part though. I give us credit for looking into Davenport and just not writing him off but I think Landry will be our guy.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

To be honest, there a lot of people who "follow" the team that aren't reputable at least in my opinion. I do think a lot of the mainstream media is aloof to the 49ers as well.

I think the team will want more out of the pick and will eat my words if they take Landry. If there's good value I think we'll trade out unless Chubb is on the board.

Since this is a Davenport thread I think the team will have Davenport higher than Landry but that's just one mans opinion.

okay...everything I've seen from the LEO prospects they've brought in are similar to Landry as far as height/weight goes. (size was an issue for you I guess)

Saleh has talked about the importance of getting off the field on 3rd down and having that speed around the edge. throw Buck/Thomas inside along with Landry coming around the edge and there you go.

I know the "3 down player" thing is a bugaboo for you...but I've already shown that a guy like Yannick (who's a worse run defender than Landry) and is smaller/less athletic version of Landry had 920 snaps this past yr (only 10 less than K Mack).

it's all about getting to the QB.

we will agree to disagree on who we like...all good!

Ok, let's take a step back here because I don't think you are quite understanding the point. I'm not saying that Landry or any other player with a similar build can't be a LEO.

However, it is likely that we would have another player (AA or Thomas) at LEO in base. You are kind of proving the point with Yannick as he's terrible against the run. Even though he's getting a lot of snaps with the Jags I don't see us wanting a liability on the edge for arguably the front 7's most important position on any down.

The other prospects being brought in could be looked at as nickel rushers. Right now our starting nickel rushers would probably be Marsh and Jeremiah. No question we need an upgrade but it's all about overall value.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

To be honest, there a lot of people who "follow" the team that aren't reputable at least in my opinion. I do think a lot of the mainstream media is aloof to the 49ers as well.

I think the team will want more out of the pick and will eat my words if they take Landry. If there's good value I think we'll trade out unless Chubb is on the board.

Since this is a Davenport thread I think the team will have Davenport higher than Landry but that's just one mans opinion.

okay...everything I've seen from the LEO prospects they've brought in are similar to Landry as far as height/weight goes. (size was an issue for you I guess)

Saleh has talked about the importance of getting off the field on 3rd down and having that speed around the edge. throw Buck/Thomas inside along with Landry coming around the edge and there you go.

I know the "3 down player" thing is a bugaboo for you...but I've already shown that a guy like Yannick (who's a worse run defender than Landry) and is smaller/less athletic version of Landry had 920 snaps this past yr (only 10 less than K Mack).

it's all about getting to the QB.

we will agree to disagree on who we like...all good!

Ok, let's take a step back here because I don't think you are quite understanding the point. I'm not saying that Landry or any other player with a similar build can't be a LEO.

However, it is likely that we would have another player (AA or Thomas) at LEO in base. You are kind of proving the point with Yannick as he's terrible against the run. Even though he's getting a lot of snaps with the Jags I don't see us wanting a liability on the edge for arguably the front 7's most important position on any down.

The other prospects being brought in could be looked at as nickel rushers. Right now our starting nickel rushers would probably be Marsh and Jeremiah. No question we need an upgrade but it's all about overall value.

The scheme calls for those guys to be at Leo though. The league is a passing league. Assuming our offense does what it should then the defense will be playing vs the pass a lot more than not. You'll keep Landry out there and let other teams target him in the run game if they want because if they want to run at him while Jimmy keeps adding to the lead then by all means have at it.

Not sure why you think if Landry is out there at Leo full time that teams will be getting like 5 ypc each time. Landry was like the second highest graded run defender from the pass rushers by PFF last year. The idea that he can defend the run is really flawed. Dwight Freeney wasn't great vs the run, you think the Colts regretted taking him? How often did he sit?

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

To be honest, there a lot of people who "follow" the team that aren't reputable at least in my opinion. I do think a lot of the mainstream media is aloof to the 49ers as well.

I think the team will want more out of the pick and will eat my words if they take Landry. If there's good value I think we'll trade out unless Chubb is on the board.

Since this is a Davenport thread I think the team will have Davenport higher than Landry but that's just one mans opinion.

okay...everything I've seen from the LEO prospects they've brought in are similar to Landry as far as height/weight goes. (size was an issue for you I guess)

Saleh has talked about the importance of getting off the field on 3rd down and having that speed around the edge. throw Buck/Thomas inside along with Landry coming around the edge and there you go.

I know the "3 down player" thing is a bugaboo for you...but I've already shown that a guy like Yannick (who's a worse run defender than Landry) and is smaller/less athletic version of Landry had 920 snaps this past yr (only 10 less than K Mack).

it's all about getting to the QB.

we will agree to disagree on who we like...all good!

Ok, let's take a step back here because I don't think you are quite understanding the point. I'm not saying that Landry or any other player with a similar build can't be a LEO.

However, it is likely that we would have another player (AA or Thomas) at LEO in base. You are kind of proving the point with Yannick as he's terrible against the run. Even though he's getting a lot of snaps with the Jags I don't see us wanting a liability on the edge for arguably the front 7's most important position on any down.

The other prospects being brought in could be looked at as nickel rushers. Right now our starting nickel rushers would probably be Marsh and Jeremiah. No question we need an upgrade but it's all about overall value.

The scheme calls for those guys to be at Leo though. The league is a passing league. Assuming our offense does what it should then the defense will be playing vs the pass a lot more than not. You'll keep Landry out there and let other teams target him in the run game if they want because if they want to run at him while Jimmy keeps adding to the lead then by all means have at it.

Not sure why you think if Landry is out there at Leo full time that teams will be getting like 5 ypc each time. Landry was like the second highest graded run defender from the pass rushers by PFF last year. The idea that he can defend the run is really flawed. Dwight Freeney wasn't great vs the run, you think the Colts regretted taking him? How often did he sit?

Freeney was 6'1" 266 lbs when he came out, not the same build. No problems if Landry was avg-above average against the run but almost every evaluation I've seen of his outside of 2015 says that he struggles quite a bit against the run.

And I fully understand that this is a passing league but we are an 8 man box team for a reason. Yes we'll be playing more from ahead with Jimmy and will probably be out of base more. I acknowledge that entirely.

The problem with the top of this draft is that most of the core group doesn't fit entirely for various reasons. Davenport is a projection, understood. Landry has juice from the outside and I hear that but overall upside to me is limited.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Ok, let's take a step back here because I don't think you are quite understanding the point. I'm not saying that Landry or any other player with a similar build can't be a LEO.

However, it is likely that we would have another player (AA or Thomas) at LEO in base. You are kind of proving the point with Yannick as he's terrible against the run. Even though he's getting a lot of snaps with the Jags I don't see us wanting a liability on the edge for arguably the front 7's most important position on any down.

The other prospects being brought in could be looked at as nickel rushers. Right now our starting nickel rushers would probably be Marsh and Jeremiah. No question we need an upgrade but it's all about overall value.

You've stated you didn't want a situational pass rusher someone who's "not a 3 down player" I just showed you someone that plays the same damn role in the same scheme as Landry...dude was top 10 in snap counts among all edge defenders. There's nothing situational about 920 snaps.

I brought up size because you've been complaining about Landry's even though it's not even close to a issue (and provided examples).

This is a passing league you don't get off the field on 3rd down you lose plan and simple...there's only one other position in football that holds value more than a pass rusher and thats a QB.

I have no idea who you think we need that will play a more impactful position at 9; given who we already have on this roster. We lost our sack leader in Elvis and replaced him (and lynch) with career backups.

Biggest need is a pass rusher, Landry's skill set given who we currently have and the scheme we run is a match made in heaven.

If you think Landry will never be in on running downs that's fine. I think he will, maybe not yr one but run defending is something that can be learned (and something that he was very good at in 2015). His skill set as a pass rusher is valuable.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Ok, let's take a step back here because I don't think you are quite understanding the point. I'm not saying that Landry or any other player with a similar build can't be a LEO.

However, it is likely that we would have another player (AA or Thomas) at LEO in base. You are kind of proving the point with Yannick as he's terrible against the run. Even though he's getting a lot of snaps with the Jags I don't see us wanting a liability on the edge for arguably the front 7's most important position on any down.

The other prospects being brought in could be looked at as nickel rushers. Right now our starting nickel rushers would probably be Marsh and Jeremiah. No question we need an upgrade but it's all about overall value.

You've stated you didn't want a situational pass rusher someone who's "not a 3 down player" I just showed you someone that plays the same damn role in the same scheme as Landry...dude was top 10 in snap counts among all edge defenders. There's nothing situational about 920 snaps.

I brought up size because you've been complaining about Landry's even though it's not even close to a issue (and provided examples).

This is a passing league you don't get off the field on 3rd down you lose plan and simple...there's only one other position in football that holds value more than a pass rusher and thats a QB.

I have no idea who you think we need that will play a more impactful position at 9; given who we already have on this roster. We lost our sack leader in Elvis and replaced him (and lynch) with career backups.

Biggest need is a pass rusher, Landry's skill set given who we currently have and the scheme we run is a match made in heaven.

If you think Landry will never be in on running downs that's fine. I think he will, maybe not yr one but run defending is something that can be learned (and something that he was very good at in 2015). His skill set as a pass rusher is valuable.

I've already addressed a lot of this so... Also, the position is DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4, not "pass rusher". A complete player at either position is #2 behind QB.

But you asked about what I think we need.

Top 3 options for me are:

1. Chubb (if he drops)
2. Trade down
3. Davenport

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

I've already addressed a lot of this so... Also, the position is DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4, not "pass rusher". A complete player at either position is #2 behind QB.

But you asked about what I think we need.

Top 3 options for me are:

1. Chubb (if he drops)
2. Trade down
3. Davenport

I know what the positions are...you don't have to try and talk down to me.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
I know what the positions are...you don't have to try and talk down to me.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

I've already addressed a lot of this so... Also, the position is DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4, not "pass rusher". A complete player at either position is #2 behind QB.

But you asked about what I think we need.

Top 3 options for me are:

1. Chubb (if he drops)
2. Trade down
3. Davenport

I know what the positions are...you don't have to try and talk down to me.

No one is talking down to you.. I'm sure you know the positions but you keep saying "pass rusher" as if that's the only thing they do. The value of the position entails more than that even though pass rushing is the main priority.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

I've already addressed a lot of this so... Also, the position is DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4, not "pass rusher". A complete player at either position is #2 behind QB.

But you asked about what I think we need.

Top 3 options for me are:

1. Chubb (if he drops)
2. Trade down
3. Davenport

I know what the positions are...you don't have to try and talk down to me.

No one is talking down to you.. I'm sure you know the positions but you keep saying "pass rusher" as if that's the only thing they do. The value of the position entails more than that even though pass rushing is the main priority.

The reason he's saying pass rusher is because that's what we need. Putting a heavy run defender who won't bring much pass rush out there doesn't help the defense. A defense which will be playing with a lot more leads or close games now that Jimmy is the QB.

Look at what the Colts did with Manning. They loaded up on super fast defenders whose primary focus was pass rush/pass coverage...which is partly why they struggled so much in the playoffs when Manning couldn't put up huge numbers and other teams could run on them.

Overall if Landry is the worst run defender out there we're still a pretty good run defend team so unlike the Colts we won't be gashed just by having Landry out there.

You keep under rating Harold as a run defender too. The thing is he has a lot of room to grow just because he's not as raw as Davenport doesn't mean his ceiling is low.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
I've already addressed a lot of this so... Also, the position is DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4, not "pass rusher". A complete player at either position is #2 behind QB.

But you asked about what I think we need.

Top 3 options for me are:

1. Chubb (if he drops)
2. Trade down
3. Davenport

I know what the positions are...you don't have to try and talk down to me.

No one is talking down to you.. I'm sure you know the positions but you keep saying "pass rusher" as if that's the only thing they do. The value of the position entails more than that even though pass rushing is the main priority.

The reason he's saying pass rusher is because that's what we need. Putting a heavy run defender who won't bring much pass rush out there doesn't help the defense. A defense which will be playing with a lot more leads or close games now that Jimmy is the QB.

Look at what the Colts did with Manning. They loaded up on super fast defenders whose primary focus was pass rush/pass coverage...which is partly why they struggled so much in the playoffs when Manning couldn't put up huge numbers and other teams could run on them.

Overall if Landry is the worst run defender out there we're still a pretty good run defend team so unlike the Colts we won't be gashed just by having Landry out there.

You keep under rating Harold as a run defender too. The thing is he has a lot of room to grow just because he's not as raw as Davenport doesn't mean his ceiling is low.

Again, I understand what the need is. I don't get why this is so hard... "Pass rusher" not worth the 9th pick. Complete DE's like Chubb are and will go even higher because of it. I like what Landry brings with his pass rush and he would definitely be successful on 3rd down but for where we are picking I want more. And if he is the overall player you guys think he is he shouldn't get past 8th to Chicago. They currently have Aaron Lynch as their starter at OLB opposite Leonard Floyd.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

I've already addressed a lot of this so... Also, the position is DE in a 4-3 or OLB in a 3-4, not "pass rusher". A complete player at either position is #2 behind QB.

But you asked about what I think we need.

Top 3 options for me are:

1. Chubb (if he drops)
2. Trade down
3. Davenport

I know what the positions are...you don't have to try and talk down to me.

No one is talking down to you.. I'm sure you know the positions but you keep saying "pass rusher" as if that's the only thing they do. The value of the position entails more than that even though pass rushing is the main priority.

The reason he's saying pass rusher is because that's what we need. Putting a heavy run defender who won't bring much pass rush out there doesn't help the defense. A defense which will be playing with a lot more leads or close games now that Jimmy is the QB.

Look at what the Colts did with Manning. They loaded up on super fast defenders whose primary focus was pass rush/pass coverage...which is partly why they struggled so much in the playoffs when Manning couldn't put up huge numbers and other teams could run on them.

Overall if Landry is the worst run defender out there we're still a pretty good run defend team so unlike the Colts we won't be gashed just by having Landry out there.

You keep under rating Harold as a run defender too. The thing is he has a lot of room to grow just because he's not as raw as Davenport doesn't mean his ceiling is low.

Again, I understand what the need is. I don't get why this is so hard... "Pass rusher" not worth the 9th pick. Complete DE's like Chubb are and will go even higher because of it. I like what Landry brings with his pass rush and he would definitely be successful on 3rd down but for where we are picking I want more. And if he is the overall player you guys think he is he shouldn't get past 8th to Chicago. They currently have Aaron Lynch as their starter at OLB opposite Leonard Floyd.

An elite pass rusher isn't worth the 9th pick? Since when???

It's the most important position behind QB in today's game. You're acting like Landry just falls on his ass any time the other team runs the ball...far from the case.

He's not 6'6 270 lbs but that doesn't mean he's a pushover. Hell im pretty sure he repped out more on the bench than Davenport did.

Chicago may very well take him or they could address many other needs. Aaron Lynch is a pretty good player if he's in shape. I'm sure they'll draft Quenton Nelson if he's there.