Roquan Smith, LB, Georgia

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:
Fitzpatrick, Davenport, Landry or Ward. I'm hoping it's Ward but wouldn't be upset with Landry

Ward would be a nickel in our system. I would much rather have Isaiah Oliver, but I haven't looked at his tape all too much. Don't know how he would handle the nickel positon. Can he handle drags, rubs, crossing routes? I don't know.

Maybe someone else could chime in here?

Corner I would be ok with provided he is lockdown and if Fitzpatrick can do that fine. I worry about Fitzpatrick being the pick because I see Safety as an area of strength for us this year.

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:


You don't seem to get it.
This isn't an "area." There is no such thing as a linebacker "shedding blocks" of offensive linemen. That never, ever, ever, ever happens. Ever. It's a non starter because it's not an attribute.

I already proved this by showing Ray Lewis's game against the Titans in the 2003-2004 wildcard playoffs, where he literally never sheds a single block from an offensive lineman. This was arguably the greatest MLB to ever play the game.Every time an offensive lineman got out on him, he was out of the play (just as every other linebacker in NFL history was, every time).

And yet he still made 17 tackles in the game. He did it by doing the things a linebacker is supposed to do, none of which is "shed blocks."

Linebackers aren't asked to shed blocks. They are asked to either engage them to seal their gap or to scrape and flow and avoid them.

Shed and scrape is a routine drill being run by linebackers.
Getting off blocks implies getting off blocks, doesn't matter if you shed or scrape them.

The notion that in NFL no linebacker ever was able to shed a block after engaging with an olineman is, quite frankly, absurd.

Originally posted by 49oz2superbowl:

Yes, round 2/3 will be the sweet spot for ER value (not pick 9). People clamoring for Harold Landry at 9 are just trying to talk themselves into him being a blue chip prospect because we so desperately need an ER. We're better of either trading back or taking one of the blue chip prospects (Minkah, Roquan, James) and going ER with our 2nd pick.

Players at that position who all have shown the traits to be a starting caliber LEO and IMO are not a big drop off from Landry (and virtually all but Key are more well-rounded):

Rd 2
Ogbonnia Okoronkwo
Chad Thomas
Josh Sweat
Arden Key

Rd 3/4
Hercules Mata'afa
Dorance Armstrong
Duke Ejiofor

You going to post this in every thread?

Originally posted by Awake:

Originally posted by FredFlintstone:

Fitzpatrick, Davenport, Landry or Ward. I'm hoping it's Ward but wouldn't be upset with Landry

Ward would be a nickel in our system. I would much rather have Isaiah Oliver, but I haven't looked at his tape all too much. Don't know how he would handle the nickel positon. Can he handle drags, rubs, crossing routes? I don't know.

Maybe someone else could chime in here?

If Jeremy Lane can play outside in our scheme there is no reason Ward can't.

Originally posted by Awake:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

You don't seem to get it.
This isn't an "area." There is no such thing as a linebacker "shedding blocks" of offensive linemen. That never, ever, ever, ever happens. Ever. It's a non starter because it's not an attribute.

I already proved this by showing Ray Lewis's game against the Titans in the 2003-2004 wildcard playoffs, where he literally never sheds a single block from an offensive lineman. This was arguably the greatest MLB to ever play the game.Every time an offensive lineman got out on him, he was out of the play (just as every other linebacker in NFL history was, every time).

And yet he still made 17 tackles in the game. He did it by doing the things a linebacker is supposed to do, none of which is "shed blocks."

Linebackers aren't asked to shed blocks. They are asked to either engage them to seal their gap or to scrape and flow and avoid them.

You didn't prove anything. Defenses in the past tried to keep their linebackers free, that's why they had huge lineman in the middle like Ngata (fairly recent) and Tony Siragusa. Thats the past. Now offenses are quicker, faster paced, and more athletic. Having huge Dline would hinder a defense cause an offense could run them off the field with no huddle. Because of this, defenses went with smaller dline who didn't need to be subbed out.

Nowadays linebackers are expected to engage and shed lineman. Willis did, Bowman did, prospects this year can do it. Just because you think something was the standard 20 years ago doesn't mean it is today.

OMG. No. Just no.

Defenses have done nothing but become more and more finesse over time, and none more than linebackers. Linebackers these days are practically safeties by comparison at this point. It's a finesse, wide open passing league now.

When teams are constantly in nickel and dime because of spread offenses, you know what comes off the field? OTHER LINEBACKERS.

Freak'n Christ.

Willis and Bowman never shed a block by an offensive lineman in their lives.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

You don't seem to get it.
This isn't an "area." There is no such thing as a linebacker "shedding blocks" of offensive linemen. That never, ever, ever, ever happens. Ever. It's a non starter because it's not an attribute.

I already proved this by showing Ray Lewis's game against the Titans in the 2003-2004 wildcard playoffs, where he literally never sheds a single block from an offensive lineman. This was arguably the greatest MLB to ever play the game.Every time an offensive lineman got out on him, he was out of the play (just as every other linebacker in NFL history was, every time).

And yet he still made 17 tackles in the game. He did it by doing the things a linebacker is supposed to do, none of which is "shed blocks."

Linebackers aren't asked to shed blocks. They are asked to either engage them to seal their gap or to scrape and flow and avoid them.

Shed and scrape is a routine drill being run by linebackers.
Getting off blocks implies getting off blocks, doesn't matter if you shed or scrape them.

The notion that in NFL no linebacker ever was able to shed a block after engaging with an olineman is, quite frankly, absurd.

Scrape-and-flow is exactly what Roquan (and every other linebacker) does. Linebackers are taught to either engage in blocks simply to tie them up and fill the gap, or scrape and flow to the ball. It depends, of course, on what play the offense runs to determine which move is considered the correct one for a specific linebacker in question.

They are never asked to SHED the block. If an offensive lineman gets out on them, they are not blamed in the meeting the next day for not shedding it...because it is utterly impossible. Instead, either the defensive lineman who failed to protect the linebacker is blamed, or a linebacker who was properly protected is blamed.

What Ray McDonald and Bowman do here is what is in the textbook:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N6jNtaONZ4&t=2m8s

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

If I am drafting Smith, I am putting him outside and drafting someone else to man the middle. I want Smith to run as freely as possible for our team. Let someone else fend off blockers on a more regular basis.

So, for me, Roquan is OLB1, and Vander Esch is ILB1.

I couldn't agree more.

We tried the Foster experiment at MIKE last year and moved him back to WILL to be as free as possible...plus I'm not getting he's the sharpest tool in the shed and can't be counted on on and off the field. Saleh needs a MIKE he can count on to wear the green dot and be on the field every down and can handle the physical punishment inside...bigger body.

The bigger body is your Sam, the Mike is more about ability to cover ground sideline to sideline

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

OMG. No. Just no.

Defenses have done nothing but become more and more finesse over time, and none more than linebackers. Linebackers these days are practically safeties by comparison at this point. It's a finesse, wide open passing league now.

When teams are constantly in nickel and dime because of spread offenses, you know what comes off the field? OTHER LINEBACKERS.

Freak'n Christ.

Willis and Bowman never shed a block by an offensive lineman in their lives.

With a statement like that. I know I can't take u serious

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by MadDog49er:

If I am drafting Smith, I am putting him outside and drafting someone else to man the middle. I want Smith to run as freely as possible for our team. Let someone else fend off blockers on a more regular basis.

So, for me, Roquan is OLB1, and Vander Esch is ILB1.

I couldn't agree more.

We tried the Foster experiment at MIKE last year and moved him back to WILL to be as free as possible...plus I'm not getting he's the sharpest tool in the shed and can't be counted on on and off the field. Saleh needs a MIKE he can count on to wear the green dot and be on the field every down and can handle the physical punishment inside...bigger body.

The bigger body is your Sam, the Mike is more about ability to cover ground sideline to sideline

Wouldn't say Foster at MLB failed either. Think he's seen as the MLB of the future. That's why Roquan would be a fantastic and safe pick. After next year I believe Malcolm Smith's guaranteed money is gone. So we can release with no cap hit.

Tough choice between Smith and Landry. Glad I'm not making the pick.

Originally posted by mayo49:

Tough choice between Smith and Landry. Glad I'm not making the pick.

Our front office may not either

Originally posted by 49ers808:

Originally posted by mayo49:

Tough choice between Smith and Landry. Glad I'm not making the pick.

Our front office may not either

Oh they know. But phone calls could change things mang. That's why teams smoke crack and put together big boards. It's kinda like a gambling book for blackjack for that specific team.

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

Originally posted by Awake:

Originally posted by darockzillahitman:

You don't seem to get it.
This isn't an "area." There is no such thing as a linebacker "shedding blocks" of offensive linemen. That never, ever, ever, ever happens. Ever. It's a non starter because it's not an attribute.

I already proved this by showing Ray Lewis's game against the Titans in the 2003-2004 wildcard playoffs, where he literally never sheds a single block from an offensive lineman. This was arguably the greatest MLB to ever play the game.Every time an offensive lineman got out on him, he was out of the play (just as every other linebacker in NFL history was, every time).

And yet he still made 17 tackles in the game. He did it by doing the things a linebacker is supposed to do, none of which is "shed blocks."

Linebackers aren't asked to shed blocks. They are asked to either engage them to seal their gap or to scrape and flow and avoid them.

You didn't prove anything. Defenses in the past tried to keep their linebackers free, that's why they had huge lineman in the middle like Ngata (fairly recent) and Tony Siragusa. Thats the past. Now offenses are quicker, faster paced, and more athletic. Having huge Dline would hinder a defense cause an offense could run them off the field with no huddle. Because of this, defenses went with smaller dline who didn't need to be subbed out.

Nowadays linebackers are expected to engage and shed lineman. Willis did, Bowman did, prospects this year can do it. Just because you think something was the standard 20 years ago doesn't mean it is today.

OMG. No. Just no.

Defenses have done nothing but become more and more finesse over time, and none more than linebackers. Linebackers these days are practically safeties by comparison at this point. It's a finesse, wide open passing league now.

When teams are constantly in nickel and dime because of spread offenses, you know what comes off the field? OTHER LINEBACKERS.

Freak'n Christ.

Willis and Bowman never shed a block by an offensive lineman in their lives.