There are 716 users in the forums

Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by Heroism:
I was posting about this in the Robert Saleh thread. I thought it was pertinent to this thread since Solomon Thomas brings some explosive and athletic qualities that we're missing in the trenches. One thing that stands out when you watch both Seattle and Atlanta's defensive lines is that they love to generate pressure using a lot of different stunts, slants, etc. Having guys that can move and are athletic is a requisite.

BTW I used Frank Clark to compare because he pass rushes from everywhere, so no matter where you project AA/Buckner to play, Clark plays there, too.

Just for s**ts and giggles, I pulled up some Seahawks tape just to focus on what they did up front this past season...dear lord, between Frank Clark, Cliff Avril, and Michael Bennett, their line is so athletic, explosive, and swarming. Frank Clark is an absolute monster. Bennett gets a lot of praise for his ability to rush from multiple spots, but Frank Clark does as well. And I think he might be better at it...

You can compare the type of athletes AA/Buckner are to Frank Clark here. The difference is staggering, especially the drills that measure explosiveness, change of direction, and lateral agility. In comparison, our line looks oversized, lumbering, and slow. Thanks, Baalke.


Nice post. There are many ways to skin a cat, but athletic guys look well suited to the scheme. I think the line can develop and do well, but adding some burst could help a lot.
  • mayo49
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 65,216
Originally posted by rtj03:
Why couldn't our D line be this below if we draft him:

Lynch / armstead / Thomas / Buckner

That could be our front 4?

Ideally, Thomas should be playing 5-Technique.
Originally posted by 49erBigMac:
Nice post. There are many ways to skin a cat, but athletic guys look well suited to the scheme. I think the line can develop and do well, but adding some burst could help a lot.

Buckner has definitely proven he can play, Armstead as much as I still hope he turns into a stud should not be counted on at this point.

And Frank Clark would've probably been a first rounder if he didn't have off the field flags but Pete Carroll don't give a fuk.
Originally posted by NinerSickness:
I don't get why people want this guy so much. He's not a pure DT, and he's not a LEO. And the Niners already have a surplus of guys whose best fits are probably the 4-tech' (Armstead & Aaron Lynch).

If Lynch can cut 30 pounds, maybe he can be the LEO...

Are you for real...so you don't know why people want Thomas but have no problem expecting Lynch to drop 30 lbs when the guy can't keep the weight off?

You keep putting all your faith in guys who either haven't shown anything legit or guys who can't show the dedication necessary to succeed in this league long term.

The reason people want Thomas is because he brings a high caliber player who you don't have to worry about those things with. He will put in his full effort to contribute at a high level at whatever position we play him in.

He doesn't have to be a pure DT or a pure LEO, stop being so small minded. Guys play all over the place to give the defense an advantage over the offense they're playing that day on that snap. Someone who can play all over the line is a huge asset to have regardless of what defense we're playing.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by NinerSickness:
I don't get why people want this guy so much. He's not a pure DT, and he's not a LEO. And the Niners already have a surplus of guys whose best fits are probably the 4-tech' (Armstead & Aaron Lynch).

If Lynch can cut 30 pounds, maybe he can be the LEO...

Are you for real...so you don't know why people want Thomas but have no problem expecting Lynch to drop 30 lbs when the guy can't keep the weight off?

You keep putting all your faith in guys who either haven't shown anything legit or guys who can't show the dedication necessary to succeed in this league long term.

The reason people want Thomas is because he brings a high caliber player who you don't have to worry about those things with. He will put in his full effort to contribute at a high level at whatever position we play him in.

He doesn't have to be a pure DT or a pure LEO, stop being so small minded. Guys play all over the place to give the defense an advantage over the offense they're playing that day on that snap. Someone who can play all over the line is a huge asset to have regardless of what defense we're playing.

I'm not sure I get people's issues with Solomon. I'm a Hooker Train passenger myself, but picking Solomon isn't a bad move.

AA is a question mark. Maybe he develops, maybe this is as good as it gets.

Drafting Soloman Thomas is a good thing.

Drafting Soloman Thomas doesn't look like it solves our edge rush concerns. He makes plays inside the tackle box.

No matter the pick at 2 (unless it's Garrett, or a reach), we're not solving our edge rush woes in the first round. Let use our 34 pick for this (and even get another one later as well).

There seems to be a concern on the board that drafting Thomas means we don't really have a place to play our last three first round draft picks (AA, Buck, Thomas) all at the same time.

To this concern, my reply is basically this:

If AA busts, then we just fixed it. Win. We brought in a stud (Thomas), we already have a stud (Buckner.) We move forward with those two and build around them.

If AA develops, then we just got deeper at one of our worst position group. Win. On base downs, yes, we might not be able to get them all on the field all the time. But there are base alignments that would allow all three studs to play (bear front), and certainly in nickel (where we're most likely playing a lot more of than base).



There also seems to be a concern about where he fits in general: Where would he play, what role? The scheme has"textbook" traits you'd want from each DLineman, and he doesn't fit any one of them. He's too small for the 5T. He's too small for the 3T.

This can get confusing because when you look at other teams (e.g. Seattle), they will one year, put a 320 pounder at 5T, then a couple of years later, they put a 310 pounder at 3T. How are they able to do that?

It's because we're in a flexible scheme, which isn't easy for some to accept. This isn't like the D we ran under Fangio, where you could clearly define what you wanted from your nose, your 2 DEs, etc.

One of the great aspects of this scheme is that you can literally take any type of player and find a spot for him. We're no longer reaching for that "perfect 3-4 DE", nor trying to find those two perfect OLBs.

Just get talent and we'll find a place for you. In Seattle, Bennett is all over the place. 3T, 5T, Elephant. They just drafted a 310 lb Reed, and he plays 3T. In text book world, they already had one in Bennett, but they did it anyway. It seems unlikely that Carrolltold Schneider, "only get me guys that can play one spot." He wants beasts up front, and then he adjusts his front to the talent he has, to the talent they've acquired in FA and the draft. It really opens up simply getting the best players available, and then molding your front around them.

Do we still need edge rush? Yes.

Do we still need a Fat run stuffing 2 gapper? Yes.

Are we going to address either one of those positions at 2? Most likely not.

So if you feel Thomas is the BPA, then take him and build the fronts around the talent and depth you have.



I believe Hooker is BPA at 2, and fills a huge need. But if Thomas is the pick, that's great.
[ Edited by Lobo49er on Apr 4, 2017 at 7:06 AM ]
There are 4 scenarios and neither involve Armstead IMO. Armstead will strictly be a rotational player IMO.

1- We take Soloman Thomas at 2 to start at LDE (5 tech) and move him inside to NT (1 tech) on passing downs to replace Earl Mitchell. Deforest Buckner is an every down player at RDT (3 tech)

LDE- Soloman Thomas
NT- Earl Mitchell
RDT- Deforest Buckner
LEO- Rookie

2- We take Jonathan Allen at 2 to start at RDT (3 tech) and Deforest Buckner is an every down player at LDE (5 tech) Armstead comes in on passing downs to replace Mitchell.

LDE- DeForest Buckner
NT- Earl Mitchell
RDT- Jonathan Allen
LEO- Rookie

3- We take Lattimore, Hooker, Fournette or Adams at 2

4- We trade down

After watching film of both Allen and Thomas I'm leaning towards Allen and choice 2. He has the motor. He has the production. He uses perfect fit for 3 tech and it allows us to leave Buckner at 5 tech where he should be.

I want nothing to do with Thomas at 3 tech on running downs. I don't care what he did in college against mediocre blockers. He will get destroyed inside. I also don't see any secondary pass rush moves with him. It's bull rush or nothing and that is concerning if he is a LDE trying to bend the edge.
Oh BTW that rookie I have at 34 is Derek Rivers. Dude is going to be a beast.

1-  Jonathan Allen, DT- Alabama
2-  Derek Rivers LEO- Youngstown State
3-  Ryan Anderson SAM- Alabama

SAM- Ahmad Brooks / Ryan Anderson
LDE- DeForest Buckner / Arik Armstead
NT- Earl Mitchell
RDT- Jonathan Allen / Ronald Blair
LEO- Derek Rivers / Eli Harold / Aaron Lynch

That is a downright scary Dline that will change the outcomes of games and set the tone. I love it
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Apr 4, 2017 at 7:31 AM ]
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
There are 4 scenarios and neither involve Armstead IMO. Armstead will strictly be a rotational player IMO.

1- We take Soloman Thomas at 2 to start at LDE (5 tech) and move him inside to NT (1 tech) on passing downs to replace Earl Mitchell. Deforest Buckner is an every down player at RDT (3 tech)

LDE- Soloman Thomas
NT- Earl Mitchell
RDT- Deforest Buckner
LEO- Rookie

2- We take Jonathan Allen at 2 to start at RDT (3 tech) and Deforest Buckner is an every down player at LDE (5 tech) Armstead comes in on passing downs to replace Mitchell.

LDE- DeForest Buckner
NT- Earl Mitchell
RDT- Jonathan Allen
LEO- Rookie

3- We take Lattimore, Hooker, Fournette or Adams at 2

4- We trade down

After watching film of both Allen and Thomas I'm leaning towards Allen and choice 2. He has the motor. He has the production. He uses perfect fit for 3 tech and it allows us to leave Buckner at 5 tech where he should be.

I want nothing to do with Thomas at 3 tech on running downs. I don't care what he did in college against mediocre blockers. He will get destroyed inside. I also don't see any secondary pass rush moves with him. It's bull rush or nothing and that is concerning if he is a LDE trying to bend the edge.

You want to check again.

Jonathan Allen would be a great pick if he didn't have serious injury concerns. Arthritic joint issues are no joke.
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
I also don't see any secondary pass rush moves with him. It's bull rush or nothing

Originally posted by genus49:
You want to check again.

Jonathan Allen would be a great pick if he didn't have serious injury concerns. Arthritic joint issues are no joke.

From what I've read his shoulders are ok.

Thomas gets by with great hand useage with his bull rush and shooting the gap by timing the count and his hustle.

I don't see much else that will translate to the NFL. I didn't see one rush where he drops his shoulder to bend the edge on a speed rush. It's a straight up over powering his blocker. That's it. I'm not sure how that will fly in the NFL
[ Edited by SteveYoung on Apr 4, 2017 at 8:15 AM ]
Thomas, AA, Bucky. Heck of a rotation.
Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Oh BTW that rookie I have at 34 is Derek Rivers. Dude is going to be a beast.

1-  Jonathan Allen, DT- Alabama
2-  Derek Rivers LEO- Youngstown State
3-  Ryan Anderson SAM- Alabama

SAM- Ahmad Brooks / Ryan Anderson
LDE- DeForest Buckner / Arik Armstead
NT- Earl Mitchell
RDT- Jonathan Allen / Ronald Blair
LEO- Derek Rivers / Eli Harold / Aaron Lynch

That is a downright scary Dline that will change the outcomes of games and set the tone. I love it

Hit the nail on the head with Derek Rivers
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000788978/Rapoport-There-s-nothing-functionally-wrong-with-Jonathan-Allen-after-surgeries

Allen is the pick.

Production. Check. 30.5 tackles for losses and 22.5 sacks in 2 years.

Leadership. Check.

Toughness. Check.

Winner. Check.

Character. Check.

Work Ethic. Check.

Scheme fit. Check.

This guy is the next Bryant Young.
De ja vu. ..
Open Menu Search Share 49ersWebzone