Solomon Thomas--Stanford

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah never know. 2-gapping is all Armstead did in college at Oregon (boring for fans). He played both DE spots as well as NT. Perhaps he can carve out the NT/1T spot over Mitchell. People that say he blows at run defense are ignoring all his college tape and the role we used him under Mangini and O'Neil which was counter to his skill set...like bringing in a FS and asking him to play with his back to the QB as a slot CB.

Let 'em battle it out. Still needs lots and lots of edge rushers though.

Hey I'm all for all three being on the field at the same time good luck trying to have one of them one on one. I'm sorry though I didn't see any amazing film of AA stuffing the run in college

If AA turns into a sub package 3rd down pass rusher sucks we spent the 17th pick on him but such is life not every 1st rd pick is gonna be a stud 3 down starter.

Thinking outside the box a "bit" here.

But here he is 2-gapping his entire college career. That's essentially what our NT/1T would be doing here now. But yet, we pushed him to be a 1-gapping pass rusher.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by NCommand:

His weight is a bit of a concern but that 3T spot is designed more for quickness and interior pass rushing. Sure, going up against 340 G's could pose a challenge at first until he can pack on more muscle/weight and technique. The right side of the DL is designed for pass rush so you have smaller, quicker, more explosive players there as it's the blind side of the QB. The left side is typically your strong side where you have your bigger bodies like NT and the 5T (run defenders freeing up the pass rushers).

How does that leave our weak side run D with an undersized 3T, undersized WILL, and primarily a pass rusher as a LEO on that side? Point being it's not as perfect as you are making it seem to be.

The NT will take up both gaps and the the RDT and LEO will each have one gap. So they rush AS they ensure that gap is covered. This is also where Bowman, Smith and Tartt come into play as well protecting that size as well as the outside CB. Team defense. Same thing against Seattle. Did we have more success running to the left vs. right?

It's not about gap assignments it's about the strengths and size on the weak side. Right or left doesn't matter, it depends on where the TE is so it's hard for me to comment on your question.

Point being is that we are vulnerable on the weak side with undersized personnel in Thomas and Smith, and someone else who's primary responsibility is rushing the passer.

I'd much rather prefer a lineup of:

Thomas-Buckner-Mitchell-AA-Lynch on the front against both the run and pass.

Compared to:

Brooks-Buckner-Mitchell-Thomas-Lynch

Originally posted by NCommand:
Skill sets are totally different. Not combine measurables. This isn't a FS toggling between the FS and SS in the 3-4 or LCB vs RCB or any of the 3 LB positions. This is about actual skill sets. Note that even when he does line up as a DE in their 3-4, he's still rushing inside. He's not a dude that is going to line out wide of a T and blow by him or set him up with pass rush moves, etc. In a 4-3, it's all about the pass rush. You have an extra man up at the DL to help plug the run but it's all about the edge rushers and if you can also have an interior pass rusher like Thomas, you've just raised your defense to a whole other level.

Here, here's our own history. Do you not see the different skill sets between each of these 4?

LDE/5T Dennis Brown
LDT/NT/1T Dana Stubblefield
RDT/3T Bryant Young
RDE/LEO Rickey Jackson

You made the Bryant Young comparison i didn't

I wish we had the combine results for the older guys but as good as Young was I don't think he moved as well as Thomas does. Those numbers at the combine just show athletically he's got what it takes.

I didn't realize he did the boxing thing but that article just put context into what I was seeing on the field which is he took a big step forward this year. I can see him growing more and more with that athletic ability, drive and commitment to the game.

At the end of the day these back and forths are silly. Hopefully the guy is a straight up stud if we draft him and a bum if we don't :)

I do know if we can't trade down I'd be really bummed if 5 years down the line he's an all pro for another team and we're all hoping we draft someone like Thomas.

Originally posted by okdkid:
I don't understand why drafting Solomon Thomas means Armstead wouldn't be not he field. What am I missing?

Clearly in that scenario Thomas, Armstead and Buckner would represent our top 3 DL. Moreover, each is capable at playing more than one spot along the line. Why wouldn't all three be on the field? Additionally, their contracts would be staggered with Armstead being the first eligible for an extension. So, cap management doesn't seem to be an issue either.

Aside from people just attempting to further their anti-Armstead troll job -- are their any viable arguments on why all three shouldn't be on the field simultaneously?

Just what I think you're missing. They'll ask Thomas to put on weight so he can be a dominant interior presence. So now he'll be less versatile but better at his best spots. Buckner, AA really aren't the best fits as a 3 tech in the new base d. It makes the most sense to play Buckner in Doleman's old role then slide him inside in nickel situations. That puts Thomas at 3 and he will have to put on weight for that. There's going to be some moving around but unless one can wide 9 edge rush on a consistent basis it's more likely AA is going to be rotational.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Thinking outside the box a "bit" here.

But here he is 2-gapping his entire college career. That's essentially what our NT/1T would be doing here now. But yet, we pushed him to be a 1-gapping pass rusher.

We wont be using a lot of 2 gap assignments is the thing. A 2 gap defense is a read and react defense. This is going to be an attacking style defense with mostly a 1 gap penetrating style which is meant to be disruptive. I actually can't wait to see these guys get turned loose and let there physical skill set takeover. Dont think just blow that f**king hole up

Originally posted by genus49:
You made the Bryant Young comparison i didn't

I wish we had the combine results for the older guys but as good as Young was I don't think he moved as well as Thomas does. Those numbers at the combine just show athletically he's got what it takes.

I didn't realize he did the boxing thing but that article just put context into what I was seeing on the field which is he took a big step forward this year. I can see him growing more and more with that athletic ability, drive and commitment to the game.

At the end of the day these back and forths are silly. Hopefully the guy is a straight up stud if we draft him and a bum if we don't :)

I do know if we can't trade down I'd be really bummed if 5 years down the line he's an all pro for another team and we're all hoping we draft someone like Thomas.

Oh yes, I've been making that comparison from the start. He could end up being BY II. But let's stop acting like BY can also be Rickey Jackson or Charles Haley. They just have different skill sets. That's all. I would have no issues with this pick.

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Thinking outside the box a "bit" here.

But here he is 2-gapping his entire college career. That's essentially what our NT/1T would be doing here now. But yet, we pushed him to be a 1-gapping pass rusher.

We wont be using a lot of 2 gap assignments is the thing. A 2 gap defense is a read and react defense. This is going to be an attacking style defense with mostly a 1 gap penetrating style which is meant to be disruptive. I actually can't wait to see these guys get turned loose and let there physical skill set takeover. Dont think just blow that f**king hole up

Only the NT 2 gaps. That's something AA and Buckner did their entire careers in their 3-4 which is why they were touted to come here. But in this 4-3, it's a hybrid. You still have some 3-4 personnel like the SAM and NT who still do traditional 3-4 roles. NT/1T is one of those. But yes, every OTHER position is 1-gapping.

As long as they're all on the field, I could care less who's 3, 5 or 24-gapping, just let them loose.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Thinking outside the box a "bit" here.

But here he is 2-gapping his entire college career. That's essentially what our NT/1T would be doing here now. But yet, we pushed him to be a 1-gapping pass rusher.

We wont be using a lot of 2 gap assignments is the thing. A 2 gap defense is a read and react defense. This is going to be an attacking style defense with mostly a 1 gap penetrating style which is meant to be disruptive. I actually can't wait to see these guys get turned loose and let there physical skill set takeover. Dont think just blow that f**king hole up

Only the NT 2 gaps. That's something AA and Buckner did their entire careers in their 3-4 which is why they were touted to come here. But in this 4-3, it's a hybrid. You still have some 3-4 personnel like the SAM and NT who still do traditional 3-4 roles. NT/1T is one of those. But yes, every OTHER position is 1-gapping.

Actually only one position is 2 gapping on run downs and thats going to be Mitchell. On obvious passing downs its single gap, balls to the wall. I can't wait

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jreff22:

I never mentioned Hooker.

I'm going off their board too. Williams is a head case, won't happen. Harris will be a day 1 pick IMO. And Tak is hurt.

What part of any of that is confusing you?

So who you drafting at two? Barnett? he's not worth the number two pick in the draft not even close. Harris is at pick 32 we have the 34th you telling me if we really like the kid we can't move up with all the mid tier picks we have?

Takk has the speed and length that everyone is crying about on here for the LEO...dude put up 24 on the bench with a torn labrum. I got no problem going after him if he's there at 34.

all this crying about the "LEO" is silly we have Lynch who was the 8th highest PRP in the league in 2015 (was hurt this yr). This draft is chalk full of edge rushers...go watch Rivers he's the perfect LEO and can be had in the 2nd or 3rd.

Like I said Mayock has Solomon as his number two edge rusher...I'll take his word over yours as far as who can rush the passer and who can't. Don't be mad cause he man handled your Irish

Everybody manhandled the Irish lol

Mayock said nothing about him rushing from the outside on passing downs. He's said the exact same thing every other evaluator had said...he's going inside on passing downs.

Harris won't go that late. I think he goes early/mid 20's

I don't want to draft anybody hurt, I'm over that.

Don't trust Lynch to stay in shape. He want hurt, he got suspended and came in fat.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Kyle Shanahan, Bobby Turner (RBs) and Jeff Zgonina (DL) among #49ers coaches at #Stanford pro day.

— Eric Branch (@Eric_Branch) March 23, 2017

Originally posted by NCommand:

Skill sets are totally different. Not combine measurables. This isn't a FS toggling between the FS and SS in the 3-4 or LCB vs RCB or any of the 3 LB positions. This is about actual skill sets. Note that even when he does line up as a DE in their 3-4, he's still rushing inside. He's not a dude that is going to line out wide of a T and blow by him or set him up with pass rush moves, etc. In a 4-3, it's all about the pass rush. You have an extra man up at the DL to help plug the run but it's all about the edge rushers and if you can also have an interior pass rusher like Thomas, you've just raised your defense to a whole other level.

Here, here's our own history. Do you not see the different skill sets between each of these 4?

LDE/5T Dennis Brown
LDT/NT/1T Dana Stubblefield
RDT/3T Bryant Young
RDE/LEO Rickey Jackson

LDE/5T Deforest Buckner / Arik Armstead
LDT/NT/1T Earl Mitchell / Rookie 4th round
RDT/3T Soloman Thomas / Ronald Blair
RDE/LEO Eli Harold / Rookie 2nd round

I could dig this. Bring AA in on passing downs replacing Mitchell and let him attack.

WOLB Malcom Smith / Ray Ray Armstrong
MLB Navarro Bowman / Carl Bradford
SOLB Ahmad Brooks / Rookie 3rd round

OK. I'm back on the Soloman Thomas bandwagon.

1- Soloman Thomas DT, Stanford
2- TJ Watt DE, Wisconsin
3- Ryan Anderson LB, Alabama
4- Stevie Tuikolovatu NT, USC

There is it.

Kyle checking out solomon and Christian McCaffrey

Originally posted by Jcool:

Kyle Shanahan, Bobby Turner (RBs) and Jeff Zgonina (DL) among #49ers coaches at #Stanford pro day.

— Eric Branch (@Eric_Branch) March 23, 2017

Maybe white lightning is on our radar