Mitch "Mr Biscuit" Trubisky-QB-North Carolina

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
"Not playing" under a franchise tag is a hollow threat, and everyone knows it. It's just a negotiating ploy but it has no real effect. The Redskins have over $60M in available cap space (closer to $66M once they release DeAngelo Hall) and can easily absorb a 1 year $25M deal for Cousins. My only point is that they're in the driver's seat when it comes to either keeping/trading Cousins. I think it's definitely doable, especially if they can move up to #2 overall...but there's no way they give us a whole bunch of draft picks in addition to Cousins. That's what I was getting at.

I gave a response regarding the value in the trade but didn't see your feedback.

Also, the 60M they have available isn't as rosy as it may sound. That number is without either of their top two WR's signed who would cost approx 10 mill against the cap each. If they are unable to resign either of them they'll have to replace or rely on Doctson plus additional rookies.

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Depending on how they tag him, the Redskins would't need to give us anywhere near that for Cousins. That said, I love the idea in general.

What would you value Cousins at? To me he's worth a mid to late first rounder regardless of what his franchise tag would value him at.

#2= 2,600
#17= 950

Let's say 2,000 for Cousins and #17. There's still a 600 point or so gap which is where the additional picks come into play.

Even an average QB like Alex went for two 2nd round picks, and Bradford even went for a 1st. Cousins has been a proven player now for a couple of years, maybe not elite yet, but this is what it would realistically look like:

Redskins trade : Cousins, 2017 1st round
49ers trade : 2017 1st round pick (#2) 2018 1st round pick and 2018 3rd round pick or 4th.

No way the Redskins, or any other team, would give up a franchise QB for anything less than that. Not only that, but you are basically asking the Redskins to trade Trubisky (unproven rookie who's not even the clear #1) for a proven guy, and also give us 1st and a 2nd. Lol?

I don't think you fully understand the value of the #2 pick. Here's the trade last year with the Eagles moving from #8 to #2 to help you out.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15280364/cleveland-browns-trade-no-2-pick-draft-philadelphia-eagles-five-picks

And that's from #8 to #2, not #17.

For hypothetical reasons, even if Cousins' value is 2 first rounders (which it isn't) the equal trade approx would be Cousins and #17 for #2 and that's it. Here's another piece of info to help you out.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

Since this is a Trubisky thread, I'm including Trubisky as who the target would be for Washington. Without having a QB replacement already, this is probably the best Washington can do if they can't sign Cousins long term. Keep in mind the tag goes up to 38 million in 2018 if they can't work out an extension which isn't feasible and Washington will be forced to let him go.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Depending on how they tag him, the Redskins would't need to give us anywhere near that for Cousins. That said, I love the idea in general.

What would you value Cousins at? To me he's worth a mid to late first rounder regardless of what his franchise tag would value him at.

#2= 2,600
#17= 950

Let's say 2,000 for Cousins and #17. There's still a 600 point or so gap which is where the additional picks come into play.

Even an average QB like Alex went for two 2nd round picks, and Bradford even went for a 1st. Cousins has been a proven player now for a couple of years, maybe not elite yet, but this is what it would realistically look like:

Redskins trade : Cousins, 2017 1st round
49ers trade : 2017 1st round pick (#2) 2018 1st round pick and 2018 3rd round pick or 4th.

No way the Redskins, or any other team, would give up a franchise QB for anything less than that. Not only that, but you are basically asking the Redskins to trade Trubisky (unproven rookie who's not even the clear #1) for a proven guy, and also give us 1st and a 2nd. Lol?

I don't think you fully understand the value of the #2 pick. Here's the trade last year with the Eagles moving from #8 to #2 to help you out.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15280364/cleveland-browns-trade-no-2-pick-draft-philadelphia-eagles-five-picks

And that's from #8 to #2, not #17.

For hypothetical reasons, even if Cousins' value is 2 first rounders (which it isn't) the equal trade approx would be Cousins and #17 for #2 and that's it. Here's another piece of info to help you out.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

Since this is a Trubisky thread, I'm including Trubisky as who the target would be for Washington. Without having a QB replacement already, this is probably the best Washington can do if they can't sign Cousins long term. Keep in mind the tag goes up to 38 million in 2018 if they can't work out an extension which isn't feasible and Washington will be forced to let him go.

Doesnt matter..Jay Gruden just wrote his ticket out of town after promoting Manusky to DC..Redskins will be looking for a new coach after next season...Trubisky wont help them

Originally posted by ComeOnDeberg:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
Depending on how they tag him, the Redskins would't need to give us anywhere near that for Cousins. That said, I love the idea in general.

What would you value Cousins at? To me he's worth a mid to late first rounder regardless of what his franchise tag would value him at.

#2= 2,600
#17= 950

Let's say 2,000 for Cousins and #17. There's still a 600 point or so gap which is where the additional picks come into play.

Even an average QB like Alex went for two 2nd round picks, and Bradford even went for a 1st. Cousins has been a proven player now for a couple of years, maybe not elite yet, but this is what it would realistically look like:

Redskins trade : Cousins, 2017 1st round
49ers trade : 2017 1st round pick (#2) 2018 1st round pick and 2018 3rd round pick or 4th.

No way the Redskins, or any other team, would give up a franchise QB for anything less than that. Not only that, but you are basically asking the Redskins to trade Trubisky (unproven rookie who's not even the clear #1) for a proven guy, and also give us 1st and a 2nd. Lol?

I don't think you fully understand the value of the #2 pick. Here's the trade last year with the Eagles moving from #8 to #2 to help you out.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/15280364/cleveland-browns-trade-no-2-pick-draft-philadelphia-eagles-five-picks

And that's from #8 to #2, not #17.

For hypothetical reasons, even if Cousins' value is 2 first rounders (which it isn't) the equal trade approx would be Cousins and #17 for #2 and that's it. Here's another piece of info to help you out.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/draft/draft-trade-chart/

Since this is a Trubisky thread, I'm including Trubisky as who the target would be for Washington. Without having a QB replacement already, this is probably the best Washington can do if they can't sign Cousins long term. Keep in mind the tag goes up to 38 million in 2018 if they can't work out an extension which isn't feasible and Washington will be forced to let him go.

Doesnt matter..Jay Gruden just wrote his ticket out of town after promoting Manusky to DC..Redskins will be looking for a new coach after next season...Trubisky wont help them

Last time I checked Trubisky will be drafted in 2017 and not 2018. Either way you look at it the Redskins will need a QB moving forward if they can't sign Cousins long term with or without Gruden.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
"Not playing" under a franchise tag is a hollow threat, and everyone knows it. It's just a negotiating ploy but it has no real effect. The Redskins have over $60M in available cap space (closer to $66M once they release DeAngelo Hall) and can easily absorb a 1 year $25M deal for Cousins. My only point is that they're in the driver's seat when it comes to either keeping/trading Cousins. I think it's definitely doable, especially if they can move up to #2 overall...but there's no way they give us a whole bunch of draft picks in addition to Cousins. That's what I was getting at.

I gave a response regarding the value in the trade but didn't see your feedback.

Also, the 60M they have available isn't as rosy as it may sound. That number is without either of their top two WR's signed who would cost approx 10 mill against the cap each. If they are unable to resign either of them they'll have to replace or rely on Doctson plus additional rookies.

- $66M if they cut DeAngelo Hall (which is all but certain)
- $41M if they tag Cousins
- $21M if they re-sign both Garcon and Jackson at the numbers you suggest (not likely, but for the sake of this argument).

That would leave the Redskins with ~$21M left to play with; combined with their 10+ total picks in the upcoming draft, they'd actually be in pretty good shape.

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by JBrack:

Originally posted by TheHYDE49er:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Depending on how they tag him, the Redskins would't need to give us anywhere near that for Cousins. That said, I love the idea in general.

What would you value Cousins at? To me he's worth a mid to late first rounder regardless of what his franchise tag would value him at.

#2= 2,600
#17= 950

Let's say 2,000 for Cousins and #17. There's still a 600 point or so gap which is where the additional picks come into play.

Even an average QB like Alex went for two 2nd round picks, and Bradford even went for a 1st. Cousins has been a proven player now for a couple of years, maybe not elite yet, but this is what it would realistically look like:

Redskins trade : Cousins, 2017 1st round
49ers trade : 2017 1st round pick (#2) 2018 1st round pick and 2018 3rd round pick or 4th.

No way the Redskins, or any other team, would give up a franchise QB for anything less than that. Not only that, but you are basically asking the Redskins to trade Trubisky (unproven rookie who's not even the clear #1) for a proven guy, and also give us 1st and a 2nd. Lol?

Thats all fine and dandy except one small detail. If they considered him a franchise QB they would have signed him to a long term deal by now.

That's actually a legitimate point in that I'm not sure Cousins is a TRUE franchise QB as well, but he'd be a huge upgrade over anything we've had here since Jeff Garcia. He's someone you could ride for a good 3-5 years as you rebuild the franchise from the ground up.

Im with you, I would love to have Cousins too. Thats why im talking him down. Lol

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Originally posted by GhostofFredDean74:
"Not playing" under a franchise tag is a hollow threat, and everyone knows it. It's just a negotiating ploy but it has no real effect. The Redskins have over $60M in available cap space (closer to $66M once they release DeAngelo Hall) and can easily absorb a 1 year $25M deal for Cousins. My only point is that they're in the driver's seat when it comes to either keeping/trading Cousins. I think it's definitely doable, especially if they can move up to #2 overall...but there's no way they give us a whole bunch of draft picks in addition to Cousins. That's what I was getting at.

I gave a response regarding the value in the trade but didn't see your feedback.

Also, the 60M they have available isn't as rosy as it may sound. That number is without either of their top two WR's signed who would cost approx 10 mill against the cap each. If they are unable to resign either of them they'll have to replace or rely on Doctson plus additional rookies.

- $66M if they cut DeAngelo Hall (which is all but certain)
- $41M if they tag Cousins
- $21M if they re-sign both Garcon and Jackson at the numbers you suggest (not likely, but for the sake of this argument).

That would leave the Redskins with ~$21M left to play with; combined with their 10+ total picks in the upcoming draft, they'd actually be in pretty good shape.

Right, they would be in decent shape but not as great as how 60+ mill sounds.

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:

Trade idea involving #2 (Trubisky):

Washington gets:

#2- Trubisky

Niners get:

Cousins after franchised (valued at mid first rounder)
2017 1st rounder
2017 2nd rounder
2018 2nd rounder

Extend Cousins for 4 yrs, 90 mill

If you look at the trade chart we should be getting Cousins and then some for #2. I would much rather do this than give up a 2nd and more for Jimmy.

At #17 I'm looking at a WR like Corey Davis or LB like Cunningham or Tim Williams.

love it. Trubs has a huge mountain to climb to be as good as cousins. A higher percentage says he doesnt

Wait we get Kirk their first and 2nd and 2nd in 2018? WTF

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Wait we get Kirk their first and 2nd and 2nd in 2018? WTF

That wouldn't fly even in madden.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by fan49:

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Trade idea involving #2 (Trubisky):

Washington gets:

#2- Trubisky

Niners get:

Cousins after franchised (valued at mid first rounder)
2017 1st rounder
2017 2nd rounder
2018 2nd rounder

Extend Cousins for 4 yrs, 90 mill

If you look at the trade chart we should be getting Cousins and then some for #2. I would much rather do this than give up a 2nd and more for Jimmy.

At #17 I'm looking at a WR like Corey Davis or LB like Cunningham or Tim Williams.

love it. Trubs has a huge mountain to climb to be as good as cousins. A higher percentage says he doesnt

Wait we get Kirk their first and 2nd and 2nd in 2018? WTF

Yep, based on the value I would place Cousins at. Where would you value him? I have him valued at a mid first rounder or so. Ill even edit to value him as a mid 1st and second rounder.

That still leaves the deal at:

#2 for

Cousins
#17
2nd rounder '17 or '18 if need be

All this talk about a Cousins trade is insane. This guy will fold in big moments like he has always done. And to give up the entire farm for him is ridiculous.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Right, they would be in decent shape but not as great as how 60+ mill sounds.

They also need to sign one or both of their TE's to contracts and they have a few starters on D that are scheduled to be F/A's. That $20 million dollar cushion is going to get sucked up quick and we know how much Snyder loves dipping into F/A. If they aren't 100 on Cousins then there is a good chance they move him.

Am I lost? I thought this was a Trubisky thread??

Originally posted by Rascal:
All this talk about a Cousins trade is insane. This guy will fold in big moments like he has always done. And to give up the entire farm for him is ridiculous.

Did you read the trade? Also, regarding your comment the trade involves Trubisky.

Originally posted by Ninerfan84:
Did you read the trade? Also, regarding your comment the trade involves Trubisky.

Yes, I did.

To begin with, I don't rate Cousins. I just don't think he is a great franchise QB. The biggest problem I have with him is he folds in big moments and in big games.

If I had to pick a FA QB in the long run as opposed to just being a bridge QB, it would be Jimmy Garoppolo.

But, before you want to debate on Garoppolo vs Cousins, there is probably not much point in that too. I reckon the Browns' interest in Garoppolo is legit. Why? Cos there is no way they will give up on Myles Garrett with their No.1 overall pick. That is why I believe they will do whatever is required to get a deal done. And no one will be able to compete with the Browns, not even us cos they have a ton of drat capital to play with.

So, where does that leave us?

Let's get back to Trubisky and the thread, shall we?