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Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:I see open receivers on over half the plays. And he missed wide open receivers badly on at least 5 throws . Two s**tty drops from his teammates. But don't see where you get that they had no separation. That's just flat out wrong.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Aren't QBs supposed to make WRs betterSwitzer, Howard, and Proehl all doubled or came near to doubling their production when Mitch became the QB.
I agree it was frustrating to see Kizer play this yr, the talent is there but like you said he held on to the ball wayyy too much....was it because he was afraid to turn the ball over, was it because he wasn't confident enough to make the throws, or was it because he wanted to make the big play instead of the short safer play? As far as leadership goes that's something for the scouts to figure out. Mitch looked like a leader to me this yr.
we will see...Peterman is growing on me, especially since we have had an idea who's gonna be our HC.
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:Compare this video to Trubisky's game against Stanford or any game Clemson played all year. Kizer took sacks on plays where no one was open or was forced to try to scramble. He also threw into more tight windows than Trubisky or Watson have had to in any games this year. Notre Dame didn't have a Mike Williams they could throw the ball to who could make contested catches. St. Brown is tall, but he isn't strong or physical.
The throw at 3:43 is a touchdown if he has a TE like Leggett or even Alize Jones who was supposed to be the starter this year before he got hurt Perfect throw, but he's throwing to a guy who isn't any good, didn't get separation, and couldn't come down with a very makeable catch. 7:36 is another perfect throw, but the receiver doesn't come back to the ball or catch it. On the 2nd interception on 4th down, Stanford blitzed 5 guys and 2 got home immediately. Kizer tries to make a play, but the receiver (Corey Holmes) doesn't look back until the ball is already going past him.
Notre Dame had a bunch of receivers who didn't have experience from past years and weren't even supposed to be starters in 2016 (they lost 2 of their best remaining players in offense in Alize Jones and Corey Robinson after losing their two starting receivers in Will Fuller and Chris Brown). Their 2016 WRs, TEs, and RBs combined for 456 receiving yards in 2015. It's remarkable that the ND offense was able to score 33.5 points per game (excluding the NC State hurricane game) considering they replaced a number of really good players with awful ones. It definitely wasn't Kizer's fault they only won 4 games this year.
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:Again, all of Notre Dame's returning WRs, TEs, and RBs combined for 456 receiving yards in 2015. Kizer did make them better, but some of these guys were awful to begin with. North Carolina threw for over 3600 yards last year and scored over 40 points a game. Trubisky didn't make their offense that much better - some of those guys saw increases in production because they became starting WRs replacing Mack Hollins and Quinshad Davis. St. Brown went from 8 yards to 960, Hunter went from 363 to 521, and a true freshman who was only a 3 star recruit (Stepherson) had 462 yards.
Notre Dame's offense scored 34 points/game in 2015. Despite losing a ton of talent, they scored 33 points/game in 2016 if you take out the hurricane game at NC State. North Carolina's offense scored 41 points/game in 2015. They scored 35 points/game this year if you take out the Virginia Tech hurricane game.
North Carolina didn't lose a lot of talent between 2015 and 2016 (they didn't have a single player drafted in 2015). Their offense was just as good with Marquise Williams at QB in 2015 and he's not exactly lighting up the NFL right now. Mitch is obviously a much better NFL prospect than Williams and has NFL tools, but it's worth considering that North Carolina QBs tend to put up pretty good numbers even if they aren't NFL prospects.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
I think it's funny how people are comparing UNCs talent to ND lol...like one team isn't always top end in getting recruits and one isn't even the top sport at their college.
Completing 58.7% of your passes in a spread offense is garbage...you can't make those throws in a spimple spread I don't see it happening in the NFL end of the day.
Originally posted by jcs:Originally posted by NYniner85:I think it's funny how people are comparing UNCs talent to ND lol...like one team isn't always top end in getting recruits and one isn't even the top sport at their college.
Completing 58.7% of your passes in a spread offense is garbage...you can't make those throws in a spimple spread I don't see it happening in the NFL end of the day.
He played in 12 games this year....HALF of them he completed less than 60% of his passes.
Originally posted by GhostOfBaalke:
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Compare this video to Trubisky's game against Stanford or any game Clemson played all year. Kizer took sacks on plays where no one was open or was forced to try to scramble. He also threw into more tight windows than Trubisky or Watson have had to in any games this year. Notre Dame didn't have a Mike Williams they could throw the ball to who could make contested catches. St. Brown is tall, but he isn't strong or physical.
The throw at 3:43 is a touchdown if he has a TE like Leggett or even Alize Jones who was supposed to be the starter this year before he got hurt Perfect throw, but he's throwing to a guy who isn't any good, didn't get separation, and couldn't come down with a very makeable catch. 7:36 is another perfect throw, but the receiver doesn't come back to the ball or catch it. On the 2nd interception on 4th down, Stanford blitzed 5 guys and 2 got home immediately. Kizer tries to make a play, but the receiver (Corey Holmes) doesn't look back until the ball is already going past him.
Notre Dame had a bunch of receivers who didn't have experience from past years and weren't even supposed to be starters in 2016 (they lost 2 of their best remaining players in offense in Alize Jones and Corey Robinson after losing their two starting receivers in Will Fuller and Chris Brown). Their 2016 WRs, TEs, and RBs combined for 456 receiving yards in 2015. It's remarkable that the ND offense was able to score 33.5 points per game (excluding the NC State hurricane game) considering they replaced a number of really good players with awful ones. It definitely wasn't Kizer's fault they only won 4 games this year.
Trubisky looked a million times better vs Stanford and his o line was getting destroyed all night . Mitch's receivers had a good amount of terrible drops. He made some throws in very tight windows , something I didn't see much from Kizer vs them. I'm not biased towards either guy and see no way anyone can argue that Kizer looked better vs Stanford.
I'm not saying it was his fault they won only four games. He was the best on the team by far and is one of the top QBs in the draft. I just don't like all the hypothetical arguments about how he would've done better on Mitch's or Deshaun's team, they're weak arguments.
Originally posted by Memphis9er:
I'm not sold on any of these quarterback prospects in this year's crop, having said that though, only a complete ND homer would even suggest that Kizer is as good of a prospect as Trubisky or Watson.
Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
You're right - Mel Kiper, Matt Miller, Daniel Jeremiah, Dane Brugler (CBS), Bucky Brooks (CBS), and Walter Cherepinsky (Walter Football) must all be massive Notre Dame fans.
Kiper has him ranked as the #2 QB behind Trubisky.
http://www.windycitygridiron.com/2017/1/13/14267404/mel-kiper-positional-rankings-for-the-chicago-bears-need-espn-2017-nfl-draft-bpa
Matt Miller has him ranked 17th overall, right after Trubisky and ahead of Watson.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2686251-2017-nfl-draft-big-board-matt-millers-updated-rankings
Walter Football has him ranked as the top QB prospect.
http://walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php
Daniel Jeremiah has him ranked as the top QB by far as his 15th overall prospect. Trubisky is next at 31.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000775479/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospects-for-2017-nfl-draft
Dane Brugler has had him going 3rd overall to the Bears for several iterations of mock drafts.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft
Bucky Brooks from CBS has Kizer as the top QB prospect.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000775852/article/top-5-2017-nfl-draft-prospects-by-position
Kizer is probably going to be the first QB taken if Trubisky is really just 6'1. Teams are going to take the 6'5 QB with the bigger arm over the 6'1 QB who is a little more accurate and consistent. Kizer is ranked ahead of Watson in most mocks/draft rankings I've seen that aren't from random guys on Bleacher Report. He could very easily move ahead of Trubisky in a number of rankings if Trubisky is 2 inches shorter than everyone thought.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Well, that is what we think Memphis, but question is who is it that kyle likes/wants as a pupil to coach up? I think most of us are hoping to draft our Qb mid to later in the first rd, perhaps as late as the 2nd mid to late. Mahomes, Peterman two in particular. But it all boils down to WHO it is that kyle puts stock in. We know he can take a really good qB and make him great. But can he pick a guy from the lot, not get him well ahead of where he should be picked, and most importantly, have utmost confidence in that being THE guy he is going to make into our next FR QB? When you look at it from that perspective, that is one tall task.
Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Well, that is what we think Memphis, but question is who is it that kyle likes/wants as a pupil to coach up? I think most of us are hoping to draft our Qb mid to later in the first rd, perhaps as late as the 2nd mid to late. Mahomes, Peterman two in particular. But it all boils down to WHO it is that kyle puts stock in. We know he can take a really good qB and make him great. But can he pick a guy from the lot, not get him well ahead of where he should be picked, and most importantly, have utmost confidence in that being THE guy he is going to make into our next FR QB? When you look at it from that perspective, that is one tall task.
49ers interviewed DeShone Kizer last night, GM John Lynch said.
— Matt Maiocco (@MaioccoCSN) March 2, 2017