DeShone Kizer QB, Notre Dame

Kizer seems to be a consensus top 2 QB in this draft outside of the webzone.

CBS has him ranked 2nd and he's actually the first QB off the board in Dane Brugler's mock draft at #2 overall to the 49ers and the 2nd QB in Rang's mock at #11 to the Cardinals.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

WalterFootball has him as their highest ranked QB, but has Trubisky at #2 to the 49ers due to scheme fit since he's more accurate. Their mock draft indicates that most team sources have listed Kizer as the top QB prospect, but at least one listed Trubisky. None listed Watson.
http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2017.php
http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php

Matt Miller from BR has him ranked 2nd behind Trubisky.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2679826-2017-nfl-draft-big-board-matt-millers-updated-rankings/page/2

Todd McShay and Mel Kiper didn't list Kizer or Watson in their recent top 32 and top 25 rankings.

A number of the guys on CBS have been speculating that Watson may go in the 2nd round. Brady Quinn could be biased as a former ND player, but he thinks Kizer is the top QB prospect in the draft as well.

Good news for those of you that like Watson, because he could be available for a slight trade up into the first round. I'd rather have Kizer, but not at #2. Hopefully the Browns fall in love with a QB or Jonathan Allen.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Zachary13White:
I have been watching a lot of game film on all of the big three qbs everyone is talking about.. I played Qb all my life so I would say I know what I'm talking about... What I saw was Trubiskys wr group gets twice as much seperation as Kizers giving him much bigger Windows to throw to. Kizer is constantly playing from a dirty pocket and makes the tough throws thru tight Windows. Prototypical size huge arm mobile Kizer Is the real deal. my opinion Kizer is going to be the best Qb out of Watson, Trubisky and Kizer.

I agree for the most part.

But please tell me you played college ball.

Probably Madden if he thinks Kizer is the best of the group

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Probably Madden if he thinks Kizer is the best of the group

With his 2015 team he probably is. Nobody on that squad would even be a 3rd round pick. So to say he had little talent to work with, is an understatement.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Zachary13White:
I have been watching a lot of game film on all of the big three qbs everyone is talking about.. I played Qb all my life so I would say I know what I'm talking about... What I saw was Trubiskys wr group gets twice as much seperation as Kizers giving him much bigger Windows to throw to. Kizer is constantly playing from a dirty pocket and makes the tough throws thru tight Windows. Prototypical size huge arm mobile Kizer Is the real deal. my opinion Kizer is going to be the best Qb out of Watson, Trubisky and Kizer.

I agree for the most part.

But please tell me you played college ball.

Probably Madden if he thinks Kizer is the best of the group

That's a pretty common opinion - most people like Trubisky, but Kizer has the best physical tools of all the QBs so if you think his problems are correctable, he's got the most upside. If WalterFootball isn't making stuff up, a lot of NFL sources like Kizer over Trubisky.

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Zachary13White:

I have been watching a lot of game film on all of the big three qbs everyone is talking about.. I played Qb all my life so I would say I know what I'm talking about... What I saw was Trubiskys wr group gets twice as much seperation as Kizers giving him much bigger Windows to throw to. Kizer is constantly playing from a dirty pocket and makes the tough throws thru tight Windows. Prototypical size huge arm mobile Kizer Is the real deal. my opinion Kizer is going to be the best Qb out of Watson, Trubisky and Kizer.

I agree for the most part.

But please tell me you played college ball.

until I quit school

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jreff22:

Originally posted by Zachary13White:

I have been watching a lot of game film on all of the big three qbs everyone is talking about.. I played Qb all my life so I would say I know what I'm talking about... What I saw was Trubiskys wr group gets twice as much seperation as Kizers giving him much bigger Windows to throw to. Kizer is constantly playing from a dirty pocket and makes the tough throws thru tight Windows. Prototypical size huge arm mobile Kizer Is the real deal. my opinion Kizer is going to be the best Qb out of Watson, Trubisky and Kizer.

I agree for the most part.

But please tell me you played college ball.

Probably Madden if he thinks Kizer is the best of the group

Kizer is and will be the best of the bunch bud

Originally posted by Zachary13White:
Kizer is and will be the best of the bunch bud

Couldn't even complete 59% of his passes playing against bad teams for most of the year....

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by Zachary13White:
Kizer is and will be the best of the bunch bud

Couldn't even complete 59% of his passes playing against bad teams for most of the year....

And he's still a top 2 QB prospect, because some people put stats in context. Kizer had to throw into tight windows because his receivers were terrible and his completion percentage was 61% if you exclude the hurricane game. He still averaged 8.1 yards per attempt with the 59% completion rate if you include the hurricane game at NC State. If you take that game out (and you should), his yards per attempt go up to 8.6 which is pretty good considering the supporting cast he was stuck with this year.

Take out that game and you're looking at a guy who lost all his receivers, a first round pick at LT, and a 2nd round pick at C and still put up better numbers (more passing yards per game, same yards per attempt, lower completion percentage, but better TD/interception ratio and a higher passer rating).

He played a mediocre schedule this year, but he also had very little talent around him. For what it's worth, ND's schedule is ranked 40th in Sagarin rankings, Clemson's schedule is ranked 34th, and North Carolina's is ranked 31st. It's not like the other QBs played world beaters all year and Deshaun Watson had a lot more talent around him on Clemson.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
And he's still a top 2 QB prospect, because some people put stats in context. Kizer had to throw into tight windows because his receivers were terrible and his completion percentage was 61% if you exclude the hurricane game. He still averaged 8.1 yards per attempt with the 59% completion rate if you include the hurricane game at NC State. If you take that game out (and you should), his yards per attempt go up to 8.6 which is pretty good considering the supporting cast he was stuck with this year.

Take out that game and you're looking at a guy who lost all his receivers, a first round pick at LT, and a 2nd round pick at C and still put up better numbers (more passing yards per game, same yards per attempt, lower completion percentage, but better TD/interception ratio and a higher passer rating).

He played a mediocre schedule this year, but he also had very little talent around him. For what it's worth, ND's schedule is ranked 40th in Sagarin rankings, Clemson's schedule is ranked 34th, and North Carolina's is ranked 31st. It's not like the other QBs played world beaters all year and Deshaun Watson had a lot more talent around him on Clemson.

Still not worth a top 10 pick when he couldn't even dominate in college even when given opportunity...

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
And he's still a top 2 QB prospect, because some people put stats in context. Kizer had to throw into tight windows because his receivers were terrible and his completion percentage was 61% if you exclude the hurricane game. He still averaged 8.1 yards per attempt with the 59% completion rate if you include the hurricane game at NC State. If you take that game out (and you should), his yards per attempt go up to 8.6 which is pretty good considering the supporting cast he was stuck with this year.

Take out that game and you're looking at a guy who lost all his receivers, a first round pick at LT, and a 2nd round pick at C and still put up better numbers (more passing yards per game, same yards per attempt, lower completion percentage, but better TD/interception ratio and a higher passer rating).

He played a mediocre schedule this year, but he also had very little talent around him. For what it's worth, ND's schedule is ranked 40th in Sagarin rankings, Clemson's schedule is ranked 34th, and North Carolina's is ranked 31st. It's not like the other QBs played world beaters all year and Deshaun Watson had a lot more talent around him on Clemson.

Still not worth a top 10 pick when he couldn't even dominate in college even when given opportunity...

Look at Winston's numbers his sophomore year (25 TDs, 18 INTs) and he was still the #1 pick.

Kizer's stats would have looked very different and the team would have won more games if they returned everyone from 2015. Despite having a limited supporting cast, Kizer still accounted for over 300 yards per game between rushing and passing and more than 3 TDs per game (excluding the NC State hurricane).

Will Fuller, Chris Brown, and Corey Robinson were ND's best WRs in 2015 (Robinson's stats weren't great because he struggled with concussions). Their top TE was Alize Jones and their best linemen were Ronnie Stanley and Nick Martin. They lost all of those guys - Robinson quit football and Jones missed the entire season due to injury.

Kizer's #2 WR this year (Torii Hunter Jr) also missed 4 games due to injury and his #3 WR was a true freshman who was only a 3 star recruit coming out of high school (Kevin Stepherson).

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:
Look at Winston's numbers his sophomore year (25 TDs, 18 INTs) and he was still the #1 pick.

Kizer's stats would have looked very different and the team would have won more games if they returned everyone from 2015. Despite having a limited supporting cast, Kizer still accounted for over 300 yards per game between rushing and passing and more than 3 TDs per game (excluding the NC State hurricane).

Will Fuller, Chris Brown, and Corey Robinson were ND's best WRs in 2015 (Robinson's stats weren't great because he struggled with concussions). Their top TE was Alize Jones and their best linemen were Ronnie Stanley and Nick Martin. They lost all of those guys - Robinson quit football and Jones missed the entire season due to injury.

Kizer's #2 WR this year (Torii Hunter Jr) also missed 4 games due to injury and his #3 WR was a true freshman who was only a 3 star recruit coming out of high school (Kevin Stepherson).

Bad Comparison...Winston dominated and won the National Championship that year...only lost 1 game in his entire college career. Kizer is coming into the draft with a 4-8 record this year. Winston was heavily described as a leader in the predraft...not once have I read the word Leader and Kizer in the same sentence by analysts this season. Kizer might make for a good 2nd or 3rd round prospect to develop but he's by no means ready to take the reigns of a professional team and be expected to lead a bunch of men to a victory...should have stayed in school.

Originally posted by eastcoast49ersfan:

Kizer seems to be a consensus top 2 QB in this draft outside of the webzone.

CBS has him ranked 2nd and he's actually the first QB off the board in Dane Brugler's mock draft at #2 overall to the 49ers and the 2nd QB in Rang's mock at #11 to the Cardinals.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/mock-draft
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

WalterFootball has him as their highest ranked QB, but has Trubisky at #2 to the 49ers due to scheme fit since he's more accurate. Their mock draft indicates that most team sources have listed Kizer as the top QB prospect, but at least one listed Trubisky. None listed Watson.
http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2017.php
http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2017QB.php

Matt Miller from BR has him ranked 2nd behind Trubisky.
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2679826-2017-nfl-draft-big-board-matt-millers-updated-rankings/page/2

Todd McShay and Mel Kiper didn't list Kizer or Watson in their recent top 32 and top 25 rankings.

A number of the guys on CBS have been speculating that Watson may go in the 2nd round. Brady Quinn could be biased as a former ND player, but he thinks Kizer is the top QB prospect in the draft as well.

Good news for those of you that like Watson, because he could be available for a slight trade up into the first round. I'd rather have Kizer, but not at #2. Hopefully the Browns fall in love with a QB or Jonathan Allen.

Yuuuuuuuup!

Like I've posted many times in this dude's thread, he just LOOKS like an NFL qb, passes the eye test in spades.

Don't mind these posters like jcs who just bash and hate on anything that doesn't fit their narrative

Originally posted by Tman:

Yuuuuuuuup!

Like I've posted many times in this dude's thread, he just LOOKS like an NFL qb, passes the eye test in spades.

Don't mind these posters like jcs who just bash and hate on anything that doesn't fit their narrative

Steady. jcs has supported his views with justifications. More than you have in this post actually.

Originally posted by Tman:
Yuuuuuuuup!

Like I've posted many times in this dude's thread, he just LOOKS like an NFL qb, passes the eye test in spades.

Don't mind these posters like jcs who just bash and hate on anything that doesn't fit their narrative

Jamarcus Russell pasted the eye test as well....I saw way too many WTF throws from Kizer this yr. He played like poo in just about every big game this yr.

I will say the team around him was terrible but, accuracy was a issue and his pocket presence is a issue...he waits too long to get rid of the ball trying to hit the home run play.

I think he'd be best as a backup to learn behind someone like Palmer, Big Ben, or a vet in Cleveland (those vertical offenses are his best fit). I hope we go back to a more WCO type of offense and I don't see him being a fit for those plays based around timing and accuracy.

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by Tman:

Yuuuuuuuup!

Like I've posted many times in this dude's thread, he just LOOKS like an NFL qb, passes the eye test in spades.

Don't mind these posters like jcs who just bash and hate on anything that doesn't fit their narrative

Steady. jcs has supported his views with justifications. More than you have in this post actually.

I've posted many times in this thread with my thoughts on Kizer

Thanks for the concern English