Deshaun Watson, QB, Clemson - Legit alternative to Jared Goff in 2017?

Originally posted by jcs:

Tom Pelissero ✔@TomPelissero
Asked scouts and coaches for a half-dozen NFL teams about QB throwing sessions. One strong consensus: Clemson's Deshaun Watson won this day.
2:21 PM - 4 Mar 2017 · Indianapolis, IN
131 131 Retweets 182 182 likes

Cue eastcoast to call this a smokescreen cuz there is no way Watson can be greater than Kizer

Originally posted by jcs:
Mitchell right now has some of the most talented teammates in the draft.

lol, wut?

Switzer is the only guy expected to go anywhere in the first 3 rounds, if that. Logan will likely be a 4th or 5th rounder and Hollins and Howard are both candidates to go undrafted.

Clemson meanwhile is expected to tie a school record for most players drafted in a single year. Mike Williams, Jordan Leggett and Wayne Gallman could all be gone before Switzer even gets selected.

Its okay to not like Trubisky without saying some utterly clueless stuff.

Watsons stock rose back up this week. I know the combine doesn't tell the whole story but those interviews are damn important. I expect a private workout with him and kizer for sure.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
lol, wut?

Switzer is the only guy expected to go anywhere in the first 3 rounds, if that. Logan will likely be a 4th or 5th rounder and Hollins and Howard are both candidates to go undrafted.

Clemson meanwhile is expected to tie a school record for most players drafted in a single year. Mike Williams, Jordan Leggett and Wayne Gallman could all be gone before Switzer even gets selected.

Its okay to not like Trubisky without saying some utterly clueless stuff.

Just comparing combine numbers. The skill guys for Mitchel did well, in many ways better than Watsons.

Maybe what I should have said is this belief that that Mitchel played with untalented skill players has been proven false.

Originally posted by jcs:
Just comparing combine numbers. The skill guys for Mitchel did well, in many ways better than Watsons.

And that means what? As an example the guy who holds the Combine record for the 3 cone drill went undrafted. Most of the top achievers at the Combine are guys that never make it in the NFL. You can do great in your underwear on a track without being equally great wearing pads and playing in an actual game.

Unless you're actually arguing that Trubisky had better talent around him than Watson did, because that would just be silly.

Originally posted by TheBlueHell:

Originally posted by Waterbear:

I wasn't comparing them just saying 49er fans have seen what drafting a mediocre QB does to our ability to find a true franchise QB and compete when the roster is so god awful. Which I believe would happen if we drafted Watson at 2.

But now thinking about it, they are very comparable.

Both played in spread offenses. Both can run and their knock was that they have limited arm strength and weren't asked to make a lot of full-field reads.

Alex Smith- 6'4 217, Comp %-66.3, TD:INT ratio 5.87:1, 40 time- 4.71,

Deshaun Watson 6'3 215, Comp %-67.4, TD:INT ratio 2.81:1, 40 time- 4.66

Watson is a little more physically gifted, threw for more yards and scored more touchdowns and played against stronger competition. But he did so in that Clemson offense that has pumped out more top wide receivers than any school over the last 5 years.

You are truly out of your mind if you think they are comparable at all. Literally nobody has said Watson has "limited arm strength", and his ceiling is 10X higher as a playmaker than Alex's ever was. Alex is a solid starting QB, but he never had star potential and had a Trubisky-like one year rise with Urban Meyer out of obscurity at Utah. Watson, meanwhile, has been tearing defenses apart for three seasons regardless of his supporting cast. He tore Bama to shreds last year without Mike Williams or Deon Cain (both of whom had 90+ yards apiece in the title game this year).

Also funny how nobody mentions that Trubisky's supporting cast is basically NFL caliber at every position between Switzer/Hollins/Howard/Logan/Hood.

You are right Watson does have star "potential". He also looks at one guy and NEVER comes off of him. If he starts to the right... you can bet he is only throwing to that side or he is going to take off and run. This seems like the exact thing that people criticize Kaepernick for and it is a big problem. Don't get me started on Watson's ball placement. It's a miracle (his elite weapons) that his completion percentage is what it is.

When you evaluate quarterbacks you cannot ignore the team and system the quarterback played with. Watson hit the jackpot on both and it should be included into the evaluation.

My main point was I wouldn't take any of these QBs at #2 because of they all seem to be huge risks and missing on a QB with how bad this team is could be devistating... like we had with Alex Smith.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:
Just comparing combine numbers. The skill guys for Mitchel did well, in many ways better than Watsons.

And that means what? As an example the guy who holds the Combine record for the 3 cone drill went undrafted. Most of the top achievers at the Combine are guys that never make it in the NFL. You can do great in your underwear on a track without being equally great wearing pads and playing in an actual game.

Unless you're actually arguing that Trubisky had better talent around him than Watson did, because that would just be silly.

See I look at it like Watson had way more talent on both sides of the ball that helped him win, tho I'm not taking anything away from him bc he stepped up big at big times, but without that talent would he have been able to really do what he did..? while Trubisky had talent around him but not like Watson did and he had a great year too..so Trubisky with great talent like Watson had means he will be great..? that's how I think..and I'm a much bigger Watson fan then Trubisky..

Originally posted by Waterbear:
You are right Watson does have star "potential". He also looks at one guy and NEVER comes off of him. If he starts to the right... you can bet he is only throwing to that side or he is going to take off and run.

If you think Deshaun Watson "NEVER comes off" one guy, you clearly have never watched his film. One example:



Watson pump fake to the smoute -> peeks at the wheel -> throws to the skinny post


Your egregious post refuted in one gif, and there's tons of more examples if you actually watch the film.. Your entire post sounds like an evaluation from a biased individual with a very rudimentary understanding of quarterbacking.


Like I said in my previous post, I have no dog in this race. I've been critical of all the quarterbacks. Watson is clearly ahead of his peers and by far the most polished and refined quarterback from a mechanical stand point. There was one quarterback whose mechanics didn't fluctuate when executing different throws to different levels. Watson was very consistent with his throws in every direction to every level. Entire body is in sync and the ball comes out effortlessly. He was the only guy to me that looked like an NFL quarterback today.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:
Mitchell right now has some of the most talented teammates in the draft.

lol, wut?

Switzer is the only guy expected to go anywhere in the first 3 rounds, if that. Logan will likely be a 4th or 5th rounder and Hollins and Howard are both candidates to go undrafted.

Clemson meanwhile is expected to tie a school record for most players drafted in a single year. Mike Williams, Jordan Leggett and Wayne Gallman could all be gone before Switzer even gets selected.

Its okay to not like Trubisky without saying some utterly clueless stuff.

.

Originally posted by Jcool:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by jcs:

Mitchell right now has some of the most talented teammates in the draft.

lol, wut?

Switzer is the only guy expected to go anywhere in the first 3 rounds, if that. Logan will likely be a 4th or 5th rounder and Hollins and Howard are both candidates to go undrafted.

Clemson meanwhile is expected to tie a school record for most players drafted in a single year. Mike Williams, Jordan Leggett and Wayne Gallman could all be gone before Switzer even gets selected.

Its okay to not like Trubisky without saying some utterly clueless stuff.

.

Pretty much exactly how I feel anytime I read a post from that dude

Originally posted by Jcool:

.

What exactly was wrong about what I wrote?

Switzer is the most NFL ready talent that Trubisky was working with. He's a 3rd rounder at best.


Beyond that everyone else is mid round to undrafted.

Originally posted by birdie2bogey:

Originally posted by jcs:

Tom Pelissero ✔@TomPelissero
Asked scouts and coaches for a half-dozen NFL teams about QB throwing sessions. One strong consensus: Clemson's Deshaun Watson won this day.
2:21 PM - 4 Mar 2017 · Indianapolis, IN
131 131 Retweets 182 182 likes

Cue eastcoast to call this a smokescreen cuz there is no way Watson can be greater than Kizer

??? Watson is a better QB right now than Kizer and it isn't surprising at all that he did better in shorts given his footwork is better and he's more consistent. Watson's issue is reading the defense and seeing the middle of the field (tons of picks where he didn't see defenders). All day at the combine, scouts were praising how the ball jumped out of Kizer's hand, but how inconsistent his steps were. Can't remember if it was Charles Davis or Jeremiah who pointed out that if you teach him to use a wider base, his accuracy issues go away.

I don't dislike Watson at all and I've said before that I think he has the highest floor and is the most NFL ready of the top QBs. I just like Kizer and Trubisky more.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Jcool:

.

What exactly was wrong about what I wrote?

Switzer is the most NFL ready talent that Trubisky was working with. He's a 3rd rounder at best.


Beyond that everyone else is mid round to undrafted.

I think he was referring to the jcs post. At least I would hope so.

Lets try this again...

"Maybe what I should have said is this belief that that Mitchel played with untalented skill players has been proven false. At the combine"
"Just comparing combine numbers. The skill guys for Mitchel did well, in many ways better than Watsons."
"Mitchell right now has some of the most talented teammates in the draft."

UNC
RB - TJ Logan 4.37 40, 17 reps, 33.5 inch vert
WR - Hollins Mack 4.53 40
WR - Bug Howard 4.58 40, 37.5 inch vert
WR - Ryan Switzer 4.51 40, 11 reps, 32 inch vert

Clemson
RB - Wayne Gallman 4.60 40, 22 reps, 29.5 inch vert
WR - Scott Artavis 4.61 40, 13 reps, 31 inch vert
WR - Mike Williams (no 40 but est 4.65), 15 reps, 32.5 inch vert

Originally posted by jcs:

Lets try this again...

"Maybe what I should have said is this belief that that Mitchel played with untalented skill players has been proven false. At the combine"
"Just comparing combine numbers. The skill guys for Mitchel did well, in many ways better than Watsons."
"Mitchell right now has some of the most talented teammates in the draft."

UNC
RB - TJ Logan 4.37 40, 17 reps, 33.5 inch vert
WR - Hollins Mack 4.53 40
WR - Bug Howard 4.58 40, 37.5 inch vert
WR - Ryan Switzer 4.51 40, 11 reps, 32 inch vert

Clemson
RB - Wayne Gallman 4.60 40, 22 reps, 29.5 inch vert
WR - Scott Artavis 4.61 40, 13 reps, 31 inch vert
WR - Mike Williams (no 40 but est 4.65), 15 reps, 32.5 inch vert

Why wasn't Leggett included in this comparison? Kinda misleading excluding Cain who is better than any of Trubisky's WRs too just because he isn't eligible for the draft this year. Watson has the two top receivers and the better TE of the two teams.

Mike Williams is a likely first round pick and Cain will likely be a first or second round pick next year. Switzer may be a fourth round pick. Trubisky had a talented roster around him no doubt, but let's not pretend it's equal to Watson's supporting cast.