We are going to trade up!

With Tomsula our former DL coach now the HC I see Baalke only trading up for Leonard Williams. I think the most likely scenario is trading down for more picks and taking somone like Melvin Gordon or Marcus Peters in the 20-25 range. I just hope we dont take Gurely. The last thing I want is another ACL tear recovering draft pick.

I also have a feeling that DGB could fall to the 2nd round in our laps.

Originally posted by KingSol:
With Tomsula our former DL coach now the HC I see Baalke only trading up for Leonard Williams. I think the most likely scenario is trading down for more picks and taking somone like Melvin Gordon or Marcus Peters in the 20-25 range. I just hope we dont take Gurely. The last thing I want is another ACL tear recovering draft pick.

I also have a feeling that DGB could fall to the 2nd round in our laps.

Why do I get the feeling Shelton would be in the mix for a trade up? Moving up all the way for Leonard Williams would be very expensive.

Originally posted by Empire49:

Originally posted by theninermaniac:
There's a ton of WR talent in the draft. No need to trade up for one.

If a trade up is necessary, I say trade a 2016 pick since we will have some compensatory picks to work with.

The bold is said every single year. It never fails. But the reality is there are only a few true impact WRs in each draft and if you're not in the top 10, you probably will need to trade up for one. I'm talking about true difference makers like Megatron, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Odell Beckham (not top 10, but close and we wouldn't have landed him at 15 last year), etc. These are guys that can burn a defense and put your offense over the top (and by "burn a defense," I don't mean run past them on go routes as a one-trick pony). We haven't had a guy like that since Owens was here over 10 years ago.

The ONLY potential #1 WR we could land without trading up is Dorial Green-Beckham, whom I have no problem choosing, but his off the field issues will probably cause Baalke to pass on him (which I believe will be a mistake) unless we can get him in the 2nd or beyond, which I doubt will happen. Outside of that, we'd have to hope Kevin White or Amari Cooper fall all the way down to us, which is even less likely than DGB being available for us in the 2nd.

The "ton of talent" you speak of is mostly guys that will be able to contribute and put up some numbers in the right system & situation, but not guys that defenses will fear and game plan around. They will not be the disruptive forces that a top talent wide receiver will be. Of course, there are always exceptions (T.O. himself was one, being drafted in the 3rd), but that isn't very common and I'm not comfortable gambling if the opportunity for a much safer bet is available to us, even if it costs us to move up and get him.

Just my thoughts.

They're good thoughts. The Niners have talent across the board but lack elite talent anywhere. There are no guys the team can count on to be a difference maker game in and game out. T. Smith may be better than Crabtree, but will he be better than Crabtree, S. Johnson and B. Lloyd (all gone)? Smith is not a true #1. The Niners don't need another bunch of players, just a one or two starters. Trade up.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
And I might be in the minority but I want the trade up and I want it for Collins... a freaking guard. I can't believe I actually want to trade up for a guard.

I think he is exactly what we need though...

Trade up for a guard?

Trade up for....... A guard?

It must be April 1!

No way we trade up for a guard.

Welllllll, I know it sounds crazy but Collins is really a tackle. Kind of like what we are doing with Ward db/safety. Collins is nasty a run blocker. Can come in right now for Iupati in the guard spot. Eventually he can replace a tackle if that's what Baalke wants. We have Brandon Thomas as well but Boone after his holdout was only signed to a 2 year deal. His contract will expire this year. The Oline was always the strong suit of our offense over the past couple of years. Fixing it is the most important thing to me.

Kap got sacked too much last year. So Collins could replace Iupati or Boone or Davis who was often injured last year. If he can switch around the Oline, it gives us options if any of the Oline gets injured.

Trading up for a guard

They just drafted two good o-linemen in the 3rd last year, what happened to those guys? Martin and Thomas both played LG at some point in college and we only have one starting spot open. Worry about Boone next year, Baalke has drafted 23 players in the past two draft because he knew we'd be losing some vets, now it's time to get quality of quantity.

I like Staley,Thomas/Martin, Kilgore, Boone,Davis for 2015

I think people place too much value on the draft value. I could care less about what round someone was taken in. The expectations build up for what?? I want someone who can turn into a probowler or a guy that fits what we do.

Martin is a Center. If he is versatile on the line that's news to me. If not than he and Kilgore can need to duke it out.

Last year Kaepernick got sacked 52 times, compared to 39 the previous year. Also last year I think the entire Oline got hurt at one point. Staley, Iupati, Davis, Kilgore (Out for season) and Boone. Davis was basically out for the season. Rigth now we have Staley, Boone, KilGore?, Thomas? Davis?

The only guy I feel good about is Staley. Hopefully Kilgore comes back strong. Davis is good is he is healthy. Thomas is unknown and Boone is fine but is he going to hold out again after this year?

Again, Collins can eventually move to the tackle position. But he be a nasty run guard right now. He and Thomas could replace Boone and Iupati and/or Collins could also fill in for Davis if the injuries persist. Provides a lot of value than just a guard.

And when we say just a guard, I feel like its says it not as important as other positions. But if Kap is on his butt another 52 times, we are not going to see Torrey Smith catching those bombs or Hyde gaining 6 yards on first down. If the line sucks, it will be another longggggggggggg year.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I think people place too much value on the draft value. I could care less about what round someone was taken in. The expectations build up for what?? I want someone who can turn into a probowler or a guy that fits what we do.

Martin is a Center. If he is versatile on the line that's news to me. If not than he and Kilgore can need to duke it out.

Last year Kaepernick got sacked 52 times, compared to 39 the previous year. Also last year I think the entire Oline got hurt at one point. Staley, Iupati, Davis, Kilgore (Out for season) and Boone. Davis was basically out for the season. Rigth now we have Staley, Boone, KilGore?, Thomas? Davis?

The only guy I feel good about is Staley. Hopefully Kilgore comes back strong. Davis is good is he is healthy. Thomas is unknown and Boone is fine but is he going to hold out again after this year?

Again, Collins can eventually move to the tackle position. But he be a nasty run guard right now. He and Thomas could replace Boone and Iupati and/or Collins could also fill in for Davis if the injuries persist. Provides a lot of value than just a guard.

And when we say just a guard, I feel like its says it not as important as other positions. But if Kap is on his butt another 52 times, we are not going to see Torrey Smith catching those bombs or Hyde gaining 6 yards on first down. If the line sucks, it will be another longggggggggggg year.

We do have a few holes to fill, don't we? Initially I say stick with CB and draft Waynes, but I could easily see us taking OL. Either Schreff or Collins should be there at #15 and yes, our OL has been below average for some time now. Great point about Kap. If this kid is going to have success he'll need SOME time to make his passes as he is not exactly Houdini like in the pocket when it collapses.

I was thinking trade down. Who knows. Let the draft masted do what he does.

Originally posted by pete98146:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
I think people place too much value on the draft value. I could care less about what round someone was taken in. The expectations build up for what?? I want someone who can turn into a probowler or a guy that fits what we do.

Martin is a Center. If he is versatile on the line that's news to me. If not than he and Kilgore can need to duke it out.

Last year Kaepernick got sacked 52 times, compared to 39 the previous year. Also last year I think the entire Oline got hurt at one point. Staley, Iupati, Davis, Kilgore (Out for season) and Boone. Davis was basically out for the season. Rigth now we have Staley, Boone, KilGore?, Thomas? Davis?

The only guy I feel good about is Staley. Hopefully Kilgore comes back strong. Davis is good is he is healthy. Thomas is unknown and Boone is fine but is he going to hold out again after this year?

Again, Collins can eventually move to the tackle position. But he be a nasty run guard right now. He and Thomas could replace Boone and Iupati and/or Collins could also fill in for Davis if the injuries persist. Provides a lot of value than just a guard.

And when we say just a guard, I feel like its says it not as important as other positions. But if Kap is on his butt another 52 times, we are not going to see Torrey Smith catching those bombs or Hyde gaining 6 yards on first down. If the line sucks, it will be another longggggggggggg year.

We do have a few holes to fill, don't we? Initially I say stick with CB and draft Waynes, but I could easily see us taking OL. Either Schreff or Collins should be there at #15 and yes, our OL has been below average for some time now. Great point about Kap. If this kid is going to have success he'll need SOME time to make his passes as he is not exactly Houdini like in the pocket when it collapses.

And I'm fine with a trade up for other players as well. I'm good with waynes, cooper, Ray, and other guys. Some of the guys the trade up is going to be a lot more steep. I'm just predicting Collins might be there at our pick or the trade isn't as bad if it's to jump to 11 or 12 but he would fill a big need.

For years, Dallas was a middle of the pack team. Romo was made fun of, etc... Last year they went deep into the playoffs and I feel like it's because they kept drafting Oline. Even when people laughed at drafting a Center in the first round. Their Oline was built with using first round picks. Much like ours was. Romo became a pro bowler again and Murray was up for MVP.

I'll be okay with whatever Baalke does. Always fun to try to predict it though

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
And I might be in the minority but I want the trade up and I want it for Collins... a freaking guard. I can't believe I actually want to trade up for a guard.

I think he is exactly what we need though...

Trade up for a guard?

Trade up for....... A guard?

It must be April 1!

No way we trade up for a guard.

Welllllll, I know it sounds crazy but Collins is really a tackle. Kind of like what we are doing with Ward db/safety. Collins is nasty a run blocker. Can come in right now for Iupati in the guard spot. Eventually he can replace a tackle if that's what Baalke wants. We have Brandon Thomas as well but Boone after his holdout was only signed to a 2 year deal. His contract will expire this year. The Oline was always the strong suit of our offense over the past couple of years. Fixing it is the most important thing to me.

Kap got sacked too much last year. So Collins could replace Iupati or Boone or Davis who was often injured last year. If he can switch around the Oline, it gives us options if any of the Oline gets injured.

Trading up for a guard

They just drafted two good o-linemen in the 3rd last year, what happened to those guys? Martin and Thomas both played LG at some point in college and we only have one starting spot open. Worry about Boone next year, Baalke has drafted 23 players in the past two draft because he knew we'd be losing some vets, now it's time to get quality of quantity.

I like Staley,Thomas/Martin, Kilgore, Boone,Davis for 2015

I think people place too much value on the draft value. I could care less about what round someone was taken in. The expectations build up for what?? I want someone who can turn into a probowler or a guy that fits what we do.

Martin is a Center. If he is versatile on the line that's news to me. If not than he and Kilgore can need to duke it out.

Last year Kaepernick got sacked 52 times, compared to 39 the previous year. Also last year I think the entire Oline got hurt at one point. Staley, Iupati, Davis, Kilgore (Out for season) and Boone. Davis was basically out for the season. Rigth now we have Staley, Boone, KilGore?, Thomas? Davis?

The only guy I feel good about is Staley. Hopefully Kilgore comes back strong. Davis is good is he is healthy. Thomas is unknown and Boone is fine but is he going to hold out again after this year?

Again, Collins can eventually move to the tackle position. But he be a nasty run guard right now. He and Thomas could replace Boone and Iupati and/or Collins could also fill in for Davis if the injuries persist. Provides a lot of value than just a guard.

And when we say just a guard, I feel like its says it not as important as other positions. But if Kap is on his butt another 52 times, we are not going to see Torrey Smith catching those bombs or Hyde gaining 6 yards on first down. If the line sucks, it will be another longggggggggggg year.

Martin played LG as a true freshman at USC starting 10 games, then started at LG the following year so yes he can be versatile ...what are you talking about "placing too much value on draft value"? So are you saying draft a player you like in the 1st that could be had later? You do have other variables like salary and 5th year options for 1st round draft picks.

The starting line played together at total of 1 QR together, so I would say that played a big part in the sack numbers. I also believe that play calling and game planing was god awful this past season.

Davis hasn't missed a game until he had surgery and got his first concussion. There was no reason to rush him back on the field when we weren't going to the playoffs. Staley, Davis, Kilgore, Thomas, Martin are all signed for at least the next 3 years and all are very important to the o-line's future.

Guard isn't as important as tackle and that is just a fact. One of the main reason's Kap was on his butt was because Iupati can't pass-block to save his life and J Martin is a horrible backup. Guards that get drafted in the top 15 are more than likely pro-bowlers it is a position that can be found later. Do you think Collins is on the same field as Iupati and Martin? Because they were drafted around that....I don't.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
And I'm fine with a trade up for other players as well. I'm good with waynes, cooper, Ray, and other guys. Some of the guys the trade up is going to be a lot more steep. I'm just predicting Collins might be there at our pick or the trade isn't as bad if it's to jump to 11 or 12 but he would fill a big need.

For years, Dallas was a middle of the pack team. Romo was made fun of, etc... Last year they went deep into the playoffs and I feel like it's because they kept drafting Oline. Even when people laughed at drafting a Center in the first round. Their Oline was built with using first round picks. Much like ours was. Romo became a pro bowler again and Murray was up for MVP.

We also found Boone as a UDFA, so they can be found anywhere in the draft....

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:

Originally posted by English:

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
And I might be in the minority but I want the trade up and I want it for Collins... a freaking guard. I can't believe I actually want to trade up for a guard.

I think he is exactly what we need though...

Trade up for a guard?

Trade up for....... A guard?

It must be April 1!

No way we trade up for a guard.

Welllllll, I know it sounds crazy but Collins is really a tackle. Kind of like what we are doing with Ward db/safety. Collins is nasty a run blocker. Can come in right now for Iupati in the guard spot. Eventually he can replace a tackle if that's what Baalke wants. We have Brandon Thomas as well but Boone after his holdout was only signed to a 2 year deal. His contract will expire this year. The Oline was always the strong suit of our offense over the past couple of years. Fixing it is the most important thing to me.

Kap got sacked too much last year. So Collins could replace Iupati or Boone or Davis who was often injured last year. If he can switch around the Oline, it gives us options if any of the Oline gets injured.

Trading up for a guard

They just drafted two good o-linemen in the 3rd last year, what happened to those guys? Martin and Thomas both played LG at some point in college and we only have one starting spot open. Worry about Boone next year, Baalke has drafted 23 players in the past two draft because he knew we'd be losing some vets, now it's time to get quality of quantity.

I like Staley,Thomas/Martin, Kilgore, Boone,Davis for 2015

I think people place too much value on the draft value. I could care less about what round someone was taken in. The expectations build up for what?? I want someone who can turn into a probowler or a guy that fits what we do.

Martin is a Center. If he is versatile on the line that's news to me. If not than he and Kilgore can need to duke it out.

Last year Kaepernick got sacked 52 times, compared to 39 the previous year. Also last year I think the entire Oline got hurt at one point. Staley, Iupati, Davis, Kilgore (Out for season) and Boone. Davis was basically out for the season. Rigth now we have Staley, Boone, KilGore?, Thomas? Davis?

The only guy I feel good about is Staley. Hopefully Kilgore comes back strong. Davis is good is he is healthy. Thomas is unknown and Boone is fine but is he going to hold out again after this year?

Again, Collins can eventually move to the tackle position. But he be a nasty run guard right now. He and Thomas could replace Boone and Iupati and/or Collins could also fill in for Davis if the injuries persist. Provides a lot of value than just a guard.

And when we say just a guard, I feel like its says it not as important as other positions. But if Kap is on his butt another 52 times, we are not going to see Torrey Smith catching those bombs or Hyde gaining 6 yards on first down. If the line sucks, it will be another longggggggggggg year.

Martin played LG as a true freshman at USC starting 10 games, then started at LG the following year so yes he can be versatile ...what are you talking about "placing too much value on draft value"? So are you saying draft a player you like in the 1st that could be had later? You do have other variables like salary and 5th year options for 1st round draft picks.

The starting line played together at total of 1 QR together, so I would say that played a big part in the sack numbers. I also believe that play calling and game planing was god awful this past season.

Davis hasn't missed a game until he had surgery and got his first concussion. There was no reason to rush him back on the field when we weren't going to the playoffs. Staley, Davis, Kilgore, Thomas, Martin are all signed for at least the next 3 years and all are very important to the o-line's future.

Guard isn't as important as tackle and that is just a fact. One of the main reason's Kap was on his butt was because Iupati can't pass-block to save his life and J Martin is a horrible backup. Guards that get drafted in the top 15 are more than likely pro-bowlers it is a position that can be found later. Do you think Collins is on the same field as Iupati and Martin? Because they were drafted around that....I don't.

That's cool with Martin that he can be moved around. They didn't plug him in last year because he was also hurt until he started at center.

Yeah I don't get caught up in the I like this guy but not at 15. Maybe at 22..... If I like him I will take him at 15 or 22 or 12. Within reason of trading up or down. I agree that tackle is more important than guard because they are harder to find. Collins is a tackle though and wants to play tackle. We can use him at guard perfectly fine until then.

Yeah I think Collins can be a probowler. If he is rated that high and if the Niners can pound the ball with good results than Collins would likely be a reason why. I know guards can be found later, and so can russell wilsons and Brady's and arron lynch's in the 7th rounder. If i'm playing odds though and want to get the Niners back to winning, my first thing would be to fix the lines, Offense and Defense. But I think Offense comes first. Control the line of scimmage, control the time of possession and keep you QB on his feet. I feel more comfortable taking a high rated guard at 15 just like Iupati, than to wait and say I can find that position later on. Don't want Kap to be protected by more Joe Looney's.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
And I might be in the minority but I want the trade up and I want it for Collins... a freaking guard. I can't believe I actually want to trade up for a guard.

I think he is exactly what we need though...

You seriously need your head examined. LOL. No way no how would baalke and company trade up to grab a guard.

Originally posted by jacklegniner:
That's cool with Martin that he can be moved around. They didn't plug him in last year because he was also hurt until he started at center.

Yeah I don't get caught up in the I like this guy but not at 15. Maybe at 22..... If I like him I will take him at 15 or 22 or 12. Within reason of trading up or down. I agree that tackle is more important than guard because they are harder to find. Collins is a tackle though and wants to play tackle. We can use him at guard perfectly fine until then.

Yeah I think Collins can be a probowler. If he is rated that high and if the Niners can pound the ball with good results than Collins would likely be a reason why. I know guards can be found later, and so can russell wilsons and Brady's and arron lynch's in the 7th rounder. If i'm playing odds though and want to get the Niners back to winning, my first thing would be to fix the lines, Offense and Defense. But I think Offense comes first. Control the line of scimmage, control the time of possession and keep you QB on his feet. I feel more comfortable taking a high rated guard at 15 just like Iupati, than to wait and say I can find that position later on. Don't want Kap to be protected by more Joe Looney's.

That's the thing though he isn't rated as high as players like Iupati and Martin at guard. Thomas was set as a high 2nd round pick so why not let him, Martin, or even Looney battle out of it? They might not be as good as a run-blocker as Iupati but they might be more balanced, which is what we need. We are set at tackle for the next 3 years, so I don't see the point in drafting a tackle to play guard. We need a swing tackle to take Martin's spot and he was the main reason for Kap's sacks.

All that needs to be fixed on the o-line is health I just don't understand drafting a position when you just spent two early picks the year before? I mean if baalke thinks he is BPA at 15 fine, but I honestly don't think he is...I don't want our 1st this year and or our 3rd round picks from last year sitting the bench, when there are open spots at another positions.

I don't think we have as many "holes" as the fan/media perception is, so a trade up, on top of Baalke's propensity to be aggressive in targetting players, is a real possibility.

Let's look at the positions that we have perceived "holes" at a little bit more closely:

OL - All-Pro G Mike Iupati has left for greener pastures... we still Daniel Kilgore, who was doing well at C before his injury, Brandon Thomas, a 3rd round red-shirt G from last year, and Marcus Martin, who we picked in the 2nd round and did well after a shaky start. That's THREE promising players we have to compete for the LG spot, as well as the Erik Pears signing, who is a LT who we will ask to play G. OL, to me, is not a need in the least bit. If you keep wasting high draft picks on the same position and never give last years picks a chance... you go nowhere and waste draft picks.

CB - Tramaine Brock was playing at a damn near Pro-Bowl level when we offered him the extension and is an ascending, good young player. Shareece Wright is a sufficeable NFL CB, Dontae Johnson showed some flashes as a rookie, and there are still Cook, Reaser and Acker. CB is still a need, IMO, but it's not like our cupboard is bare, or we don't have any proven players, and our young guys don't have upside

WR - This position group IMO is not complete, but we have 2 bona-fide starting WR's in Boldin and Torrey Smith that were part of a Super Bowl winning formula. Patton and Ellington have a lot to prove, but each have flashed some talent. I don't have much faith in the Jerome Simpson signing, but with two Pro-Bowl caliber WR's starting, there is no desperate need to get competent talent on the field.

DL - Ray Mac is gone, and Cowboy might be, too... but Dockett is a difference maker at 5-technique, Quinton Dial has impressed in limited snaps as has Jerod-Eddie, and the club seems pretty enthusiastic on what Tank Carradine will be this year. IF Cowboy comes back, which I have a feeling he will... it mitigates the need to reach for a DL prospect in the 1st or 2nd round

ILB - When Wills was here, we had 3 Pro-Bowl caliber ILB's and not enough snaps for all. We now are we left with just 2, and 2 very capable back-ups in Michael Wilhoite and NIck Moody. Crazy how some people even view this as a "need"


My Top 2 Team Needs are as follows:

Gamebreaking Offensive Player - Whether it be WR, TE (which I don't see on in this class...), or RB, we simply need players that give us a dynamic, explosive threat for a big play on any given snap. We need star-power on offense, especially with Frank gone.

Ballhawk/"Shutdown" CB - What team DOESN'T want a shut-down CB? I use the term loosely, as even top NFL CB's get burnt, but Mangini is known to be a heavy blitzer and we likely won't be dropping 7 men into coverage to make the CB's jobs easier like under Fangio, so a player that can either capitalize on Front 7 pressure and get INT's or a guy we can leave alone on an island with a #1 WR would help our D out a ton.

NT - I can't understand for the life of me why Glenn Dorsey and Ian Williams get so much love. I don't even think either is better than Dial. They are alright players, but they are not DIFFERENCE MAKERS. I will never be able to forgive Dorsey for getting blown off the ball on 3rd & 1 in the NFCCG when MarShawn Lynch ripped off a 31-yard TD run. Whole f**king country who and where the ball was going, everybody did their job but Dorsey.

Originally posted by 9erred:
You seriously need your head examined. LOL. No way no how would baalke and company trade up to grab a guard.

If the players you drafted high before aren't Year 1 Pro-Bowlers, then that means you should burn next years 1st round pick on an even less proven player because that player is guaranteed to pan out.

If we draft any OL before Round 5, it means that Baalke basically f**ked up either the Brandon Thomas or Marcus Martin pick.

Or that Kilgore started partying harder than Alex Boone at Ohio St.